iPad

[Jeremy D. Scott]

We had a good thread going on the iPad BC, thought I'd get it going again. Any Naznetter's have one? It's not for me yet, but I am interested in its progression and development over the next several months, looking to the next release.

I have thought about how it could be much easier to use for Keynote (Powerpoint) when preaching, but it's not worth the cost (especially since our Macbook works okay for now).

Anyway, what prompted me to post again was that I just read this review (http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2010/05/04/thoughts-on-the-ipad-3g/) by Rev. Adam Hamilton, pastor of Church of the Resurrection outside Kansas City.

[Doug Kitchen]

We had a good thread going on the iPad BC, thought I'd get it going again. Any Naznetter's have one? It's not for me yet, but I am interested in its progression and development over the next several months, looking to the next release.

I have thought about how it could be much easier to use for Keynote (Powerpoint) when preaching, but it's not worth the cost (especially since our Macbook works okay for now).

Anyway, what prompted me to post again was that I just read this review (http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2010/05/04/thoughts-on-the-ipad-3g/) by Rev. Adam Hamilton, pastor of Church of the Resurrection outside Kansas City.

If the gps works well then there is another reason to get one since it would save having one more gadget to hold on to during traveling. I think I would still carry a decent camera.

I got to touch an ipad a couple of weeks ago. I found it very user friendly. I don't think I would get another laptop, instead I would get an Ipad and keep a home-based "big" computer. Ipod's sync pretty well but not with every app - I think (for me) the syncing issue might be the point when I would opt for one.

Doug

[Jeremy D. Scott]

If the gps works well then there is another reason to get one since it would save having one more gadget to hold on to during traveling. I think I would still carry a decent camera.

I do that with my phone (Android based, Google Maps & Nav). My main reason for being excited for the iPad was that it would have phone capabilities (and thus reduce my need for multiple devices). But it doesn't.


I got to touch an ipad a couple of weeks ago. I found it very user friendly. I don't think I would get another laptop, instead I would get an Ipad and keep a home-based "big" computer. Ipod's sync pretty well but not with every app - I think (for me) the syncing issue might be the point when I would opt for one.

Wouldn't it be something if laptops eventually disappeared from the market? I think that there was a point when we thought that laptops would replace desktops. But while desktops have indeed changed quite a bit (i.e.: fully-contained iMacs), they've not gone away. So it would be interesting if laptops disappeared after a while.

[Mike Schutz]

I will get an iPad, probably later - and my wife will get one sooner.

The end result will probably be that I will never buy another laptop, but will replace it with a desktop computer, which fits my work style.

On a separate point, it felt weird reading Adam's blog on this. I think it has to do with my lack of experience with blogs in general. I have been asked by a few folks to write a blog, but I can't bring myself to do it - as I can't imagine anyone caring about what I think about mundane issues of life. In my mind, I am still functioning in the pre-blog world, where only certain people were writers - because they were given permission to be writers - and there was a difference between those things you would write about - those were "important" things - and the things that you talked about in casual conversation. And since I am HORRIBLE at casual conversation, I cannot imagine anyone wanting to read what I am thinking. Yet I am sitting here, in my outer office at 8am on a Tuesday morning, writing about my feelings concerning someone else's blog. I am having an existential crisis.

I was also uncomfortable reading Adam's blog about his new high tech gadget for financial reasons. This week I found out that a colleague of mine, the pastor of a conservative Presbyterian church in our community with an average Sunday morning attendance of a little more than twice our attendance, has an annual salary that is larger than my church's entire budget. I won't even let my mind go to thinking what Adam is paid. Oops, just went there.
On Monday through Friday mornings, as parents arrive to pick up their children from our preschool, I occasionally look at the parking lot. It is filled with expensive SUVs - even a few Escalades. On Tuesday evenings, when our compassionate ministry is open, the lot is filled with old minivans and small cars that are obviously on their last legs. On Sunday mornings the church parking lot looks a lot like Tuesday evenings. In a country where 5% of the population has more wealth than all the rest combined, I struggle with where the church fits - and where I fit. And if you think I mean simply in some altruistic, identify with the poor way, it's not just that. I'm not that pure. So, I was uncomfortable reading Adam's blog about his iPad, because it reminds me that I don't have this all this figured out.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I will get an iPad, probably later - and my wife will get one sooner.

The end result will probably be that I will never buy another laptop, but will replace it with a desktop computer, which fits my work style.

On a separate point, it felt weird reading Adam's blog on this. I think it has to do with my lack of experience with blogs in general. I have been asked by a few folks to write a blog, but I can't bring myself to do it - as I can't imagine anyone caring about what I think about mundane issues of life. In my mind, I am still functioning in the pre-blog world, where only certain people were writers - because they were given permission to be writers - and there was a difference between those things you would write about - those were "important" things - and the things that you talked about in casual conversation. And since I am HORRIBLE at casual conversation, I cannot imagine anyone wanting to read what I am thinking. Yet I am sitting here, in my outer office at 8am on a Tuesday morning, writing about my feelings concerning someone else's blog. I am having an existential crisis.

Blogging has multiple purposes for various people. Adam actually "blogs" rarely and doesn't even really use it as a blog. More often than not, somebody simply posts the video promo for his sermons there. This was actually his first real blog post in quite a while.

I find that my blog actually rises and falls in activity with the rise and fall of my participation on Naznet. More posts on Naznet = less posting on my blog. I guess I only have so much time to spend in writing online.


I was also uncomfortable reading Adam's blog about his new high tech gadget for financial reasons. This week I found out that a colleague of mine, the pastor of a conservative Presbyterian church in our community with an average Sunday morning attendance of a little more than twice our attendance, has an annual salary that is larger than my church's entire budget. I won't even let my mind go to thinking what Adam is paid. Oops, just went there.
On Monday through Friday mornings, as parents arrive to pick up their children from our preschool, I occasionally look at the parking lot. It is filled with expensive SUVs - even a few Escalades. On Tuesday evenings, when our compassionate ministry is open, the lot is filled with old minivans and small cars that are obviously on their last legs. On Sunday mornings the church parking lot looks a lot like Tuesday evenings. In a country where 5% of the population has more wealth than all the rest combined, I struggle with where the church fits - and where I fit. And if you think I mean simply in some altruistic, identify with the poor way, it's not just that. I'm not that pure. So, I was uncomfortable reading Adam's blog about his iPad, because it reminds me that I don't have this all this figured out.

As to Adam's salary, housing, etc., I believe he's been quite open about it. And as far as megachurches go...we might be able to point fingers at COR and put them on a list of what's wrong in church marketing, stewardship, and finances, but they'd be near the bottom of the list. COR is extremely active in social justice and put their money where their pulpit is: from adopting inner city schools to building churches in Haiti to buying new fire engines for that small town in KS that got wrecked by a tornado a couple of years back. I am not a big fan of megachurches, but I could worship at COR.

But as to your point, I have similar feelings as yours quite often. I'm not worried about the day I own an iPad though. I could trade in my one car for some good shoes or a bike, but there are things that indeed make me a better steward of all resources (time, money, etc.), and if I have access to them to the point that they don't detract from good works, I don't feel as badly about them as I used to. For the iPad specifically, it would indeed be a toy more than anything else (for me) at this point. But in the future, I could imagine it's usefulness.

[Ryan Scott]

I won't even let my mind go to thinking what Adam is paid. Oops, just went there.

There's another mega-church about half a mile from COR that's gotten into a lot of financial trouble, basically because it exists as a tax write off for a local businessman and to make millionaires of the pastor and his family. As a result, COR has been incredibly public with its budget and salary. I don't think Adam Hamilton gets paid all that much; he does, however, sell a lot of books.

[Houston Thomas]

Here is my issue with the iPad: I think at this point it is only a device to access content and not a device to create content.

I already have a smartphone to access content. I don't need nor want another (especially if you're talking about the 3G version with another monthly service fee). What I would love is something like the iPad that is also geared for content creation.

That being said, Apple makes aesthetically beautiful products.

[Shea Zellweger]

I have no use for the iPad. If it were a true slate computer, I'd be salivating over it, but so far as I can tell it's just a cross between a iPod Touch, a Kindle, and a GPS. Since I don't really do the mp3 player thing (headphones and I don't get along), and don't really have the $$ to spend on ebooks, that just leaves me with GPS, and I already have one of those... sorry, iPad. My laptop weighs less than 3 lbs, converts to a tablet, and has all of the hardware I want for creating content on the go- it may not have the pure power that my desktop does, but I rarely have an urgent need to render a video project ASAP, so that's really not a problem for me.

[Doug Kitchen]

I do that with my phone (Android based, Google Maps & Nav). My main reason for being excited for the iPad was that it would have phone capabilities (and thus reduce my need for multiple devices). But it doesn't.



Wouldn't it be something if laptops eventually disappeared from the market? I think that there was a point when we thought that laptops would replace desktops. But while desktops have indeed changed quite a bit (i.e.: fully-contained iMacs), they've not gone away. So it would be interesting if laptops disappeared after a while.

I think portable computers will become only "ipad-like" devices. Phones are too small. A thin, lightweight, low power device that is ~ 1 ft square will be a very practical device. The lack of moveable parts makes the machine more stable (note that it doesn't even have a mechanical disk). There are no hinges, no keys etc. The portability and moving parts of a laptop make them relatively short-lived mechanically and the typical hard drive requires additional power.

A while back there was a movement to put linux on inexpensive laptops with hand cranks or solar cells for power in order to distribute low cost computing to developing nations. With the lower power requirements and other features like a built-in gps, devices such as an ipad will be a viable replacement for super inexpensive laptops (which were originally slated for about a $200 cost). In a relatively short time, today's ipad will be available at that $200 level (consider the costs of iphones and ipods over the years).

Doug

[Mike Wooldridge]

Getting back to the subject at hand, I got to play with my sister's iPad last weekend. It's like a Kindle on steroids. The color and graphics are gorgeous. Unfortunately the price is on steroids too. Like pretty much everything else Apple, this device is IMHO overpriced. My sister said the device and two (I think) games was about $1K. This compares to $299 before discount for my Kindle.

[Kevin Rector]

I can't for the life of me conceptualize a reason for wanting one of these.

[Shea Zellweger]

I can't for the life of my conceptualize a reason for wanting one of these.

It's shiny.
Apple says you need one.
You're a pastor, we all know money flows freely with persons of the cloth.
Steve Jobs says you need one.

[Rich Schmidt]

I wrestled with my technolust and love of all things Apple... but eventually my frugality won the day. I'm typing this on my 2006 MacBook Pro (does that still count as "short-lived," Doug?) which goes with me in my backpack every day. I carry my 2007 iPhone (which I received as an unexpected gift) in my pocket everywhere I go. I don't really need an iPad yet. But I might by version 2 of it next year when the price goes down and the features go up.

I don't think it's terribly overpriced right now, but I'm sure the price will come down eventually. The entry-level iPad is $499, which isn't that far above the Kindle's $299 mentioned earlier, and it's a much more capable machine than the Kindle.

My eventual setup will be iPad + laptop, not iPad + desktop.... because I don't have a desktop computer. I don't have a desk, so where would I put it? Even at our church building, I work on whatever table seems best for the moment, plus I can use the same laptop at home, at the coffee shop, etc.

I've used one briefly when visiting a friend. It's nice. I just don't need it yet.

[Mike Schutz]

Kevin - I actually am nerdy enough to do an "audit" of how I use my laptop computer. Almost 80% of the time that I am away from my desk with my computer, I am reading internet content, not creating content. Almost all of the real writing that I do is either at my desk at church, or at my desk at home. As I walk around our church campus, carrying my laptop to meetings, or to practice my sermon, or need to rethink my existence on this planet, I really don't need my computer. And most of the time when I travel, it would be nice not to tote 9 books with me, on the off-chance that I will live up to my best self and do actual research. And at home, when I am sitting with my wife watching American Idol, with my laptop in front of me so I can also watch the Red Sox game on MLB.com, the laptop does get heavy after 3 hours.
So for me, the iPad, with the keyboard accessory, does make some level of sense. I will wait until the next release, and a bit of a cost reduction. However, we all know that Apple costs reductions are more fantasy than reality.

Rich -I'm with you about the technolust and love of all things Apple (have resisted an iPhone only because switching from Verizon would be insane where I live, as AT & T is horrible here) - but unlike you I will probably return to a desktop computer when my MacBook Pro dies. What won out for me in deciding to wait on an iPad was my credit card debt - not my frugality. That, and my wife's expectation that she will get one first.

Shea - Eventually you will join us. It is simply a matter of time. You will be assimilated into the Apple collective. (It is interesting that the company that truly arrived as an icon of American culture through the "1984" TV ad, and used "think different" as the ad campaign to restore its identity, has become what it has - a sign of conformity to social pressure - in the minds of some folks.)

[Rich Schmidt]

I will wait until the next release, and a bit of a cost reduction. However, we all know that Apple costs reductions are more fantasy than reality.

I'd like to challenge that last statement, Mike. The original 8GB iPhone dropped in price from $599 to $399 just a couple months after it was introduced. The iPhone 3G now sells for only $99... and my guess is that the iPhone 3GS will replace it at that price point after they introduce the next version of the iPhone this summer.

I don't know what any of that means for iPad pricing. If it's still selling well, they might not change the price until next year, when everyone assumes they will introduce the next version of it. Or they might not change the price at all & just offer a better machine at the same price. Who knows.

BTW, my plan is to upgrade to the new iPhone later this summer. My iPhone is almost 3 years old, and some of the apps are starting to feel sluggish (since they assume the better speed of the 3G or 3GS). Plus, it won't be upgradable to iPhone OS 4.0, which should be released with the new phone. So maybe I haven't totally resisted my technolust.... just channeled it in a different direction. :)

[Shea Zellweger]

Shea - Eventually you will join us. It is simply a matter of time. You will be assimilated into the Apple collective. (It is interesting that the company that truly arrived as an icon of American culture through the "1984" TV ad, and used "think different" as the ad campaign to restore its identity, has become what it has - a sign of conformity to social pressure - in the minds of some folks.)

Now, why on earth would I join you? I'm in the majority AND I can still pass myself off as a nonconformist. It's the best of both worlds!

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I can't for the life of my conceptualize a reason for wanting one of these.

Did you say the same thing about laptops several years ago? Smartphones? I can see how the current iPad doesn't serve me, but I can sure "conceptualize" how it may at some point very soon.


It's shiny.
Apple says you need one.
You're a pastor, we all know money flows freely with persons of the cloth.
Steve Jobs says you need one.

Shea - I almost wish you'd stay out of these Apple conversations. We get it. You don't like Apple. Bring something constructive. :smile: To prefer PC is one thing (I've been there...I get it). To say that Apple has no value or use at all ("need"), is just blinded fanspeak.


Getting back to the subject at hand, I got to play with my sister's iPad last weekend. It's like a Kindle on steroids. The color and graphics are gorgeous. Unfortunately the price is on steroids too. Like pretty much everything else Apple, this device is IMHO overpriced. My sister said the device and two (I think) games was about $1K. This compares to $299 before discount for my Kindle.

Wow...what games did she buy? Because the top model iPad is $829 and there are much cheaper options.


I don't think it's terribly overpriced right now, but I'm sure the price will come down eventually. The entry-level iPad is $499, which isn't that far above the Kindle's $299 mentioned earlier, and it's a much more capable machine than the Kindle.

I don't even think they're comparable. People are still making the comparison because we did before the iPad was even named. But the iPad isn't an e-reader. Of course, it does that...but it's not that. It's like comparing a bicycle to an RV or a steak knife to a Swiss army knife.


(It is interesting that the company that truly arrived as an icon of American culture through the "1984" TV ad, and used "think different" as the ad campaign to restore its identity, has become what it has - a sign of conformity to social pressure - in the minds of some folks.)

If you haven't watched Jon Stewart's rant against Apple from last week (http://www.thedailyshow.com/collection/309080/the-daily-show-s-best-apple-moments/307953), take a gander. It's absolutely hilarious, and once again, right on. (warning: language) They reference the big brother commercial. The second half is better than the first (if you only have three minutes instead of eight, skip to 5:10). Here's a quote to whet your appetite:
"It wasn't supposed to be this way. Microsoft was supposed to be the Evil One. But now you guys are busting down doors in Palo Alto while Commadant Gates is ridding the world of mosquitoes!"

[Shea Zellweger]

Shea - I almost wish you'd stay out of these Apple conversations. We get it. You don't like Apple. Bring something constructive. :smile: To prefer PC is one thing (I've been there...I get it). To say that Apple has no value or use at all ("need"), is just blinded fanspeak.



Wait... are you saying "it's shiny" isn't constructive? :)

In all fairness, my bias against the iPad is much stronger than against apple products in general. I just don't see the point. I think the iPod touch is better than anything Zune has to offer, and if I were more into digital media, I'd be salivating over the latest Macbook pro, but the iPad was actually a product I was looking forward to for several reasons, and was considering making "the switch" for, but I was severely underwhelmed by the release. Before the crash, I thought you and I found some common ground on this subject, in that the iPad basically becomes yet another device, when several of us were hoping it would actually fill the purposes of (and thereby eliminate the need for) two or three other devices. In order for it to be something I'd seriously consider, it would need more memory, a faster processor, a couple USB ports, and a camera or two. Oh, and the ability to run simultaneous apps, but the word is that's coming with OS4, so I won't complain too hard about that. Seriously, if it had those things, I would gladly replace my laptop with it, even at the cost of my PC pride.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Wait... are you saying "it's shiny" isn't constructive? :)

In all fairness, my bias against the iPad is much stronger than against apple products in general. I just don't see the point. I think the iPod touch is better than anything Zune has to offer, and if I were more into digital media, I'd be salivating over the latest Macbook pro, but the iPad was actually a product I was looking forward to for several reasons, and was considering making "the switch" for, but I was severely underwhelmed by the release. Before the crash, I thought you and I found some common ground on this subject, in that the iPad basically becomes yet another device, when several of us were hoping it would actually fill the purposes of (and thereby eliminate the need for) two or three other devices. In order for it to be something I'd seriously consider, it would need more memory, a faster processor, a couple USB ports, and a camera or two. Oh, and the ability to run simultaneous apps, but the word is that's coming with OS4, so I won't complain too hard about that. Seriously, if it had those things, I would gladly replace my laptop with it, even at the cost of my PC pride.

I agree with everything you said above.

And I even agree that Apple leads their customers on with delaying updates and features (could they really not "fit" phone capabilities, cameras, etc. into iPad?). Such is capitalism and planned obsolescence.

But to imply that anyone who has one (or any other Apple product) has bought into a completely farcical need or that the only reason anyone could conceptualize having one was based on a blind following of Apple's or Jobs' word isn't true. I've seen plenty of Apple customers call the company out lately (that's what makes Stewart's rant so right on).

Apple's genius as a company is that they make a great, very useful product that is also shiny and hip.

My hope in a thread like this is that we can distinguish between the two by calling out the flashiness while noting the usefulness (like we did so well in the thread BC).

[Shea Zellweger]

I agree with everything you said above.

And I even agree that Apple leads their customers on with delaying updates and features (could they really not "fit" phone capabilities, cameras, etc. into iPad?). Such is capitalism and planned obsolescence.

But to imply that anyone who has one (or any other Apple product) has bought into a completely farcical need or that the only reason anyone could conceptualize having one was based on a blind following of Apple's or Jobs' word isn't true. I've seen plenty of Apple customers call the company out lately (that's what makes Stewart's rant so right on).

Apple's genius as a company is that they make a great, very useful product that is also shiny and hip.

My hope in a thread like this is that we can distinguish between the two by calling out the flashiness while noting the usefulness (like we did so well in the thread BC).

I'll apologize for that. I was just trying to be funny, not start a feud ;). When it comes to Apple's genius, I really don't begrudge them that. They have a nice look, simple and clean and aesthetically pleasing. Every other computer company (though I know Apple isn't "just" a computer company) is still trying to find "looks" that can compete. If you're going to choose your computer on such superficial levels, then basically you have to ask yourself whether you want your computer to be white (apple), matte black (most PCs), shiny black (HP), or some more 'vibrant' color (Dell).

Now, when it comes to the delayed updates and such, the frustration for me is that there are times when they come out with something new and revolutionary (iPhone) that makes you want to rush out and immediately buy it, and then there are times when their "new and exciting" product (iPad) looks suspiciously like a slightly modified version of an existing product.

But hey, on the bright side, when the 124 GB iPad with the camera, fast processor, and peripheral input comes out, and I give in to the power of the dark side, you will have the opportunity to make me eat all my anti-mac words :).

[Rich Schmidt]

My main reason for being excited for the iPad was that it would have phone capabilities (and thus reduce my need for multiple devices). But it doesn't.

I forgot to ask this earlier, but Shea's comment reminded me:

Would you really use an iPad-sized device instead of a phone? If I do buy an iPad next year, it won't replace my phone, even if it has call capabilities. My phone will be in my pocket & with me at all times. My iPad would be in a bag and only with me some of the time.


In order for it to be something I'd seriously consider, it would need more memory, a faster processor, a couple USB ports, and a camera or two. Oh, and the ability to run simultaneous apps, but the word is that's coming with OS4, so I won't complain too hard about that. Seriously, if it had those things, I would gladly replace my laptop with it, even at the cost of my PC pride.

I'm curious about your list of requirements, Shea, partly because Apple seems to be refusing to try to compete based on things like memory & processor speed. In fact, I think you have to go to the specs page on their website to find that the processor runs at 1 GHz. And they don't list the amount of RAM anywhere that I could find. (Or was your "more memory" comment referring to the size of the flash drive storage?)

Apple seems to prefer to focus on what you can do with it. So I'm curious: What would you like to do with it that you can't? What would you use the camera for? The USB ports? The faster processor & more memory? This isn't a challenge, just a request. :)

Apple's approach is reminiscent of Nintendo's decision to drop out of the console "better specs" arms race with Sony and Microsoft when they introduced the Wii. It isn't as impressive as the PS3 or XBOX 360 in terms of "specs".... but it introduced a whole new segment of people to console gaming by changing what was possible. People who couldn't keep track of two analog sticks and 8 buttons had no trouble holding the Wii remote and swinging it like a tennis racket. Apple has taken a similar approach with the iPod, the iPhone, and now the iPad. And it seems to be working very well for them.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I forgot to ask this earlier, but Shea's comment reminded me:

Would you really use an iPad-sized device instead of a phone? If I do buy an iPad next year, it won't replace my phone, even if it has call capabilities. My phone will be in my pocket & with me at all times. My iPad would be in a bag and only with me some of the time.

I think that my hope was that blue tooth could make this possible. I could be wrong in the pragmatic possibility, but to use the verb in this thread, that's what I "conceptualized." The majority of the time that I'm using my actual cell phone is when I'm in the car and shouldn't be holding it anyway. If I'm in the office or at home, the same calls come through my land lines and I don't even touch my cell phone (thanks to Google Voice).

Additionally, in terms of portability, the iPad is no bigger than some of the folder/portfolios that many carry around. In fact, it's the small size of my phone that limits me in situations where I need to jot down a quick note (I actually started carrying around a small 2x3 notebook and pen again several months ago) that I see potential for the iPad and similar tablet devices.

[Shea Zellweger]

I forgot to ask this earlier, but Shea's comment reminded me:

Would you really use an iPad-sized device instead of a phone? If I do buy an iPad next year, it won't replace my phone, even if it has call capabilities. My phone will be in my pocket & with me at all times. My iPad would be in a bag and only with me some of the time.

I would. But I already use my laptop instead of a phone via skype, so in my case it would be downsizing.




I'm curious about your list of requirements, Shea, partly because Apple seems to be refusing to try to compete based on things like memory & processor speed. In fact, I think you have to go to the specs page on their website to find that the processor runs at 1 GHz. And they don't list the amount of RAM anywhere that I could find. (Or was your "more memory" comment referring to the size of the flash drive storage?)

Apple seems to prefer to focus on what you can do with it. So I'm curious: What would you like to do with it that you can't? What would you use the camera for? The USB ports? The faster processor & more memory? This isn't a challenge, just a request. :)

I meant the flash drive storage, I couldn't find RAM specs anywhere.

I would use the iPad rather than a laptop. Currently, I use my laptop for... videoconferencing (camera), school work and my music collection (more memory), running multiple applications at once, ie. Chrome, Word, iTunes, and others (faster processor). The USB port would be so I could plug other devices into the iPad, rather than having to plug the iPad into another device. As it stands, if I want something on the iPad harddrive, I would have to load/download it onto another computer, then sync that with the iPad. that makes it effectively a peripheral device, rather than a primary device. Basically, I was expecting Apple to come out with the first quality consumer slate computer, and I feel like they ended up releasing an extra-large iPod touch. Oh, the USB would also be helpful if maybe I wanted to use a mouse from time to time, rather than having to touch the screen, because I'm just that lazy.

[Rich Schmidt]

I would. But I already use my laptop instead of a phone via skype, so in my case it would be downsizing.
You don't carry a cell phone? You use your laptop & skype instead?


I would use the iPad rather than a laptop. Currently, I use my laptop for... videoconferencing (camera), school work and my music collection (more memory), running multiple applications at once, ie. Chrome, Word, iTunes, and others (faster processor). The USB port would be so I could plug other devices into the iPad, rather than having to plug the iPad into another device. As it stands, if I want something on the iPad harddrive, I would have to load/download it onto another computer, then sync that with the iPad. that makes it effectively a peripheral device, rather than a primary device. Basically, I was expecting Apple to come out with the first quality consumer slate computer, and I feel like they ended up releasing an extra-large iPod touch. Oh, the USB would also be helpful if maybe I wanted to use a mouse from time to time, rather than having to touch the screen, because I'm just that lazy.

Thanks, Shea. That's all clear enough. The only one I'm still curious about is the USB thing. What would you be plugging into the iPad in order to get something "on the iPad harddrive"? The only things I plug into the USB ports on my laptop now are (1) my iPhone, (2) our camera, and (3) a big external hard drive for backups. I don't use an external mouse because I find the trackpad much easier & more intuitive. So I can't imagine wanting to use a mouse with an iPad. Oh, and I suppose there are very rare occasions where I need to plug in a USB thumb drive because someone has something on it that I need to get onto my laptop. But that's extremely rare.

The iPad is definitely designed to be used with a computer, not as a solo device. You can't even activate it and start using it without plugging it into a computer running iTunes first. But that doesn't mean that some people won't use their iPad 90% of the time and their laptop/desktop 10% of the time.

[Shea Zellweger]

You don't carry a cell phone? You use your laptop & skype instead?

Yep. Which limits me to making phone calls only from wi-fi hotspots, which I honestly prefer. One thing I've loved about living in Alabama is that my town got no AT&T service, so my wife's cell phone was rendered useless while we were in town. I had a cell phone for two years, and I just didn't like it- people expected me to be available all the time. If I wasn't sick, asleep, or indisposed, and I chose not to answer, people took personal offense. In fact, some took personal offense when I was sick, asleep, or indisposed, because they wouldn't believe that I was. the convenience factor was quickly overridden by the "leash" factor, and when my contract ended, I canceled it.





Thanks, Shea. That's all clear enough. The only one I'm still curious about is the USB thing. What would you be plugging into the iPad in order to get something "on the iPad harddrive"? The only things I plug into the USB ports on my laptop now are (1) my iPhone, (2) our camera, and (3) a big external hard drive for backups. I don't use an external mouse because I find the trackpad much easier & more intuitive. So I can't imagine wanting to use a mouse with an iPad. Oh, and I suppose there are very rare occasions where I need to plug in a USB thumb drive because someone has something on it that I need to get onto my laptop. But that's extremely rare.

The iPad is definitely designed to be used with a computer, not as a solo device. You can't even activate it and start using it without plugging it into a computer running iTunes first. But that doesn't mean that some people won't use their iPad 90% of the time and their laptop/desktop 10% of the time.

Thumb drives are good. I really prefer optical mice to trackpads, so that's another. An interfaced camera would work well for videoconferencing, but I'd imagine a 9" device wouldn't be very practical for just taking pictures, such as of my son, so connecting that to the iPad would also be helpful. Oh, and a printer. Then again, my current printer is bluetooth enabled. In fact, I'm still hoping for a time when USB can be entirely replaced by bluetooth, but that's not happened yet.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I think portable computers will become only "ipad-like" devices. Phones are too small. A thin, lightweight, low power device that is ~ 1 ft square will be a very practical device. The lack of moveable parts makes the machine more stable (note that it doesn't even have a mechanical disk). There are no hinges, no keys etc. The portability and moving parts of a laptop make them relatively short-lived mechanically and the typical hard drive requires additional power.


Wouldn't it be something if laptops eventually disappeared from the market? I think that there was a point when we thought that laptops would replace desktops. But while desktops have indeed changed quite a bit (i.e.: fully-contained iMacs), they've not gone away. So it would be interesting if laptops disappeared after a while.

And perhaps we're seeing the beginning, even this early on... (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/06/apples-ipad-seen-cannibalizing-netbook-sales/)

[Shea Zellweger]

And perhaps we're seeing the beginning, even this early on... (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/06/apples-ipad-seen-cannibalizing-netbook-sales/)

That really doesn't surprise me, especially that netbooks are declining first. Mike Woolridge notwithstanding, a lot of the people I knew who bought netbooks did so in addition to their notebooks, desktops, and cell phones. As far as extra devices go, I would definitely take the iPad over a netbook. I'd be willing to guess that a lot of people's use for their note/netbooks is accomplished by the iPad, and truly the iPad does seem cooler.

[Houston Thomas]

But, who wants to pay 2 service contracts (smartphone + iPad)? And if you decide not to get the 3G version of the iPad you're essentially neutering your device. The GPS is useless and who knows what future killer apps will necessitate 3G capabilities?

Which is why I don't think the iPad is a laptop replacement. I don't think it is a desktop replacement. I think it is a smartphone replacement.

If I were to get the iPad, here is what I would do: quit carrying a smartphone and instead carry a regular phone. All of the app stuff that I use with my smartphone I'd use the iPad for.

[Rich Schmidt]

But, who wants to pay 2 service contracts (smartphone + iPad)? And if you decide not to get the 3G version of the iPad you're essentially neutering your device. The GPS is useless and who knows what future killer apps will necessitate 3G capabilities?
I won't pay 2 service contracts. Unless they come up with a way to combine the iPhone data plan with the iPad (and I'm not holding my breath that they will), I'll be getting a WiFi only version. Besides, by that time AT&T should be letting me tether it to my next-gen iPhone for 3G access. If they don't, I'll probably jailbreak my iPhone so that I can do it anyway.


Which is why I don't think the iPad is a laptop replacement. I don't think it is a desktop replacement. I think it is a smartphone replacement.

Well, it won't be a smartphone replacement for me, since I'll probably have the WiFi-only version. But it won't totally replace my laptop, either. It will eat into some of the activities of both, for me. Some things that I do on my phone now, I'll do on my iPad. Some things I do on my laptop now, I'll do on my iPad.

But that's me. I'm sure it'll be different for everyone.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

But, who wants to pay 2 service contracts (smartphone + iPad)? And if you decide not to get the 3G version of the iPad you're essentially neutering your device. The GPS is useless and who knows what future killer apps will necessitate 3G capabilities?

Which is why I don't think the iPad is a laptop replacement. I don't think it is a desktop replacement. I think it is a smartphone replacement.

If I were to get the iPad, here is what I would do: quit carrying a smartphone and instead carry a regular phone. All of the app stuff that I use with my smartphone I'd use the iPad for.

Yep, as it currently stands, I don't disagree with you and don't see anyone in this thread doing so either.

But it (and competitors' similar devices) could replace both laptops/netbooks very quickly in successive releases, and perhaps smartphones should it have calling capabilities.

[Kevin Rector]

Did you say the same thing about laptops several years ago? Smartphones? I can see how the current iPad doesn't serve me, but I can sure "conceptualize" how it may at some point very soon.

Nope, I'm usually pretty forward thinking when it comes to technology. I wanted a laptop back before they became ubiquitous. Smartphones were on my radar and my wish list a very long time ago. The iPad just seems to be too big to carry around like my phone and too small to be as useful as my laptop.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Nope, I'm usually pretty forward thinking when it comes to technology. I wanted a laptop back before they became ubiquitous. Smartphones were on my radar and my wish list a very long time ago. The iPad just seems to be too big to carry around like my phone and too small to be as useful as my laptop.

Again, my hope for it is that it replaces both. But with the way capitalism works...my hope may not come true.

[Ryan Scott]

It seems like we're quickly moving into a realm where we'll have to choose between Google and Apple as the company which manages our technology needs (assuming we want to stay on the cutting edge). They both seems like they're working to present a united offering across all platforms.

[Rich Schmidt]

It seems like we're quickly moving into a realm where we'll have to choose between Google and Apple as the company which manages our technology needs (assuming we want to stay on the cutting edge). They both seems like they're working to present a united offering across all platforms.

I imagine Microsoft will stay in the game (especially since they still dominate the desktop). BlackBerry is still going strong on the mobile front. And who knows what will happen with the new HP acquisition of Palm.

As for the united offerings across platforms... Google still doesn't offer a desktop OS. You can still sync your iStuff with iTunes on Windows. And Microsoft is bringing out two new mobile phone platforms this year (Kin and Windows Phone 7) that interoperate with Windows, the web, and their XBOX stuff that I really know nothing about.

I think the game is still interesting, and way too early to call.

[Shea Zellweger]

I imagine Microsoft will stay in the game (especially since they still dominate the desktop). BlackBerry is still going strong on the mobile front. And who knows what will happen with the new HP acquisition of Palm.

As for the united offerings across platforms... Google still doesn't offer a desktop OS. You can still sync your iStuff with iTunes on Windows. And Microsoft is bringing out two new mobile phone platforms this year (Kin and Windows Phone 7) that interoperate with Windows, the web, and their XBOX stuff that I really know nothing about.

I think the game is still interesting, and way too early to call.

At present, I really don't see any other company taking over the share of the software market held by Microsoft. I know Google's office software is gaining popularity, but I think it would take a significant amount of time to take over the market, especially when you have schools and corporations pushing the Microsoft format.

[Mike Wooldridge]

Shea - I almost wish you'd stay out of these Apple conversations. We get it. You don't like Apple. Bring something constructive. :smile: To prefer PC is one thing (I've been there...I get it). To say that Apple has no value or use at all ("need"), is just blinded fanspeak.



Wow...what games did she buy? Because the top model iPad is $829 and there are much cheaper options.

I don't even think they're comparable. People are still making the comparison because we did before the iPad was even named. But the iPad isn't an e-reader. Of course, it does that...but it's not that. It's like comparing a bicycle to an RV or a steak knife to a Swiss army knife.

If you haven't watched Jon Stewart's rant against Apple from last week (http://www.thedailyshow.com/collection/309080/the-daily-show-s-best-apple-moments/307953), take a gander. It's absolutely hilarious, and once again, right on. (warning: language) They reference the big brother commercial. The second half is better than the first (if you only have three minutes instead of eight, skip to 5:10). Here's a quote to whet your appetite:
"It wasn't supposed to be this way. Microsoft was supposed to be the Evil One. But now you guys are busting down doors in Palo Alto while Commadant Gates is ridding the world of mosquitoes!"
I'm sorry but sometimes (NOT always) I think people who buy Apple stuff do so just because they financially can.
I know my B-I-L loaded his iPad with memory. The only game I saw was a poker game and it was really nice. My sis said there was also Scrabble which I didn't see. He also loaded the device with all the memory it would take. He also paid an extra $139 to get the device WiFi enabled.
There's really no comparison between a Kindle and an iPad. I knew what the Kindle did when I bought it. It's much more function-specific than an iPad.

[Jon Twitchell]

He also paid an extra $139 to get the device WiFi enabled.

I don't understand this. I thought that the base model WAS WiFi enabled, and you paid extra to get it 3G enabled?

[Mike Wooldridge]

I don't understand this. I thought that the base model WAS WiFi enabled, and you paid extra to get it 3G enabled?
Not me, Jon, my brother-in-law. My understanding is that the WiFi enabled model is $ 139 more than the base model.
Edited To Add: On the Apple Store Web site it doesn't look like WiFi is extra but otherwise access requires a data plan at $15 or $30 per month. A Kindle doesn't require a separate data plan.

[Shea Zellweger]

Not me, Jon, my brother-in-law. My understanding is that the WiFi enabled model is $ 139 more than the base model.

I think you/he might mean the 3G enabled model.

[Jon Twitchell]

Not me, Jon, my brother-in-law. My understanding is that the WiFi enabled model is $ 139 more than the base model.

I understood that it was your BIL. My point is that I'm pretty sure that the WiFi model IS the base model. The $139 extra is to allow it to connect to the cell phone (3G) network.

[Mike Wooldridge]

I understood that it was your BIL. My point is that I'm pretty sure that the WiFi model IS the base model. The $139 extra is to allow it to connect to the cell phone (3G) network.
Access to the AT&T data network requires a $15 or $30 per month data plan. The Kindle doesn't require a separate data plan.

[Rich Schmidt]

Access to the AT&T data network requires a $15 or $30 per month data plan. The Kindle doesn't require a separate data plan.

You're correct. But the Kindle also doesn't have WiFi at all. They build the cost of the "Whispernet" data access into the cost of the device because they know the Kindle will never use much data over the air - just a little bit whenever you buy a book, and even less when you browse for purchases. They know you'll never stream YouTube videos to it, so it doesn't need that level of over-the-air access.

Of course, with a WiFi-only iPad, there's no data plan, either. Personally, I'd rather have the fuller-featured device (iPad) with more limited connectivity (WiFi-only) rather than the much-more-limited device (Kindle).

Edited to add:

Kindle: Whispernet cell access standard, no WiFi option
iPad: WiFi standard, 3G connectivity & data plan optional

[Jon Twitchell]

One of the interesting things about the iPad, as I heard the employee explain, is that you can buy the 3G model, but you don't have to have a data contract... you can turn it on for a month when you'll be traveling a lot, and then turn it off again. This makes it more likely, if I were to buy an iPad (I'm not), to pay the extra for the 3G version.

[Rich Schmidt]

I thought this brief article might be appropriate for those wondering about real-world experiences with the iPad, will it replace a traditional PC, etc. This guy talks about sharing his iPad with his wife and their 3 kids (high school & college aged).

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/05/07/emc-exec-sees-ipad-taking-over-his-house/

From the end of the article:

Spiking demand for the iPad was paired with a remarkable decline in need for other tech: "All the PCs and laptops are basically not being used. All the Macs are not being used. All have been powered off.... Everyone in the family is waiting for their turn at the iPad."

Eyes open and looking to the future, Chuck doesn't anticipate any more desktop computer purchases, and maybe not even any more laptop purchases. That may be a bit of hyperbole, but he's sold: "Sure, there's a handful of tasks that I still would prefer a real computer, but -- amazingly -- that list has now shrunk dramatically. In less than a week."

[Shea Zellweger]

I thought this brief article might be appropriate for those wondering about real-world experiences with the iPad, will it replace a traditional PC, etc. This guy talks about sharing his iPad with his wife and their 3 kids (high school & college aged).

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/05/07/emc-exec-sees-ipad-taking-over-his-house/

From the end of the article:

Based on "one week with an iPad." Call him again in 6 months for a more realistic outlook :).

[Dan Ross]

What is the iPad experience when landing on a web site with Adobe Flash? I have heard that neither iPad nor iPhone will allow Adobe products to be displayed. What's up with that?

[Mike Schutz]

What is the iPad experience when landing on a web site with Adobe Flash? I have heard that neither iPad nor iPhone will allow Adobe products to be displayed. What's up with that?

Dan, Are you asking how that works, or why Apple has set it up this way?

[Rich Schmidt]

What is the iPad experience when landing on a web site with Adobe Flash? I have heard that neither iPad nor iPhone will allow Adobe products to be displayed. What's up with that?

Displaying Adobe Flash content requires a plugin... and it's not available on Apple's iPhone OS (which powers the iPod touch, iPhone, and iPad). That's a conscious choice made by Apple for a whole host of reasons that have been discussed all over the web. You might read Steve Jobs' recent "Thoughts on Flash" (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/) for some of his reasoning.

As frustrating as it was at first... I really don't miss Flash on my iPhone. In fact, I've recently started using a browser plugin on my Mac that blocks Flash unless I specifically click on the item, just because it was bogging things down. So I think it was probably a good decision on Apple's part. They have a history of making decisions like this that prove to be good ones in the end. Not including a floppy disk drive in the original iMac is a prime example -- everyone thought they were crazy, but now nobody uses floppy drives.

So.... when landing on a web page with Flash, if you're using an iPod touch, iPhone, or iPad, you either see nothing or a link inviting you to download the required Flash plugin (which you can't do).

[Randy Wise]

What is the iPad experience when landing on a web site with Adobe Flash? I have heard that neither iPad nor iPhone will allow Adobe products to be displayed. What's up with that?

Its going to be a issue for a little while but should soon go away as sights adjust for iPad users.

ipad ready websites list

http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Its going to be a issue for a little while but should soon go away as sights adjust for iPad users.

ipad ready websites list

http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/

Wow...this was slightly surprising to me. So with a YouTube app, Vimeo, CNN, CBS, and many other sites now working on the iPad, the lack of Flash is less and less of a problem.

[Rich Schmidt]

Its going to be a issue for a little while but should soon go away as sights adjust for iPad users.

ipad ready websites list

http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/

That list has grown quite a bit from when I first saw it. One interesting note: The NY Times was one of the first websites featured on the iPad (at its introduction, on the intro video, etc), and quite a few people made a big deal out of the fact that it had some sections on its page that were in Flash and therefore inaccessible on the iPad. Within a month, the folks at the NY Times had modified their website to detect when an iPad (or other iPhone OS device) is accessing the page and serve up a version that replaces the Flash sections with something else. More and more websites will probably follow this type of practice.... or else quit using Flash altogether.

By the time iPad 2 (the one I might buy) is available next summer, I'm sure things will have progressed dramatically.

[Randy Wise]

Wow...this was slightly surprising to me. So with a YouTube app, Vimeo, CNN, CBS, and many other sites now working on the iPad, the lack of Flash is less and less of a problem.

Yeah, Apple appears to have alot of clout.

Randy

[Randy Wise]

That list has grown quite a bit from when I first saw it. One interesting note: The NY Times was one of the first websites featured on the iPad (at its introduction, on the intro video, etc), and quite a few people made a big deal out of the fact that it had some sections on its page that were in Flash and therefore inaccessible on the iPad. Within a month, the folks at the NY Times had modified their website to detect when an iPad (or other iPhone OS device) is accessing the page and serve up a version that replaces the Flash sections with something else. More and more websites will probably follow this type of practice.... or else quit using Flash altogether.

By the time iPad 2 (the one I might buy) is available next summer, I'm sure things will have progressed dramatically.:o

I'm hoping to hold out to rev 2 but its getting tough.

Randy

[Jeremy D. Scott]

So apparently Verizon and Google are working together on a tablet device (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/11/verizon-and-google-working-on-android-based-tablet/). As much as I'd like the iPhone to come out on Verizon, and while this doesn't necessarily mean that it won't, I think that competition is good. An Android-based tablet on Verizon could rival the iPad on AT&T (new reports already show that Android-based phones are now out-selling the iPhone (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/10/android-smartphone-sales-exceed-iphone-in-the-u-s-for-first-time/)).

Shea...are you going to hold out on BOTH Google and Apple? :tongue:

[Rich Schmidt]

(new reports already show that Android-based phones are now out-selling the iPhone (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/10/android-smartphone-sales-exceed-iphone-in-the-u-s-for-first-time/))

In the USA. Last quarter. Worldwide, iPhone still dominates Android. And my guess is that, with the release of the next iPhone, we'll see iPhone surge ahead again in the USA. Maybe. We'll see. :)

BTW, my two favorite websites for Apple news are www.rhythmac.com and www.tuaw.com. rhythmac.com aggregates news and rumors from several different Apple news sites. tuaw.com (The Unofficial Apple Weblog) goes beyond news and rumors to include app reviews, etc. Just thought I'd share...

[Shea Zellweger]

So apparently Verizon and Google are working together on a tablet device (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/11/verizon-and-google-working-on-android-based-tablet/). As much as I'd like the iPhone to come out on Verizon, and while this doesn't necessarily mean that it won't, I think that competition is good. An Android-based tablet on Verizon could rival the iPad on AT&T (new reports already show that Android-based phones are now out-selling the iPhone (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/10/android-smartphone-sales-exceed-iphone-in-the-u-s-for-first-time/)).

Shea...are you going to hold out on BOTH Google and Apple? :tongue:

Ooooh. That's tough. At the moment, I plead the Empty Wallet. Details will be important. If it's going through Google and Verizon, it sounds like there's a good chance I'd be required to purchase a data plan, so there's that. I've also received word that HP is working on a Slate/Tablet, so I may hold out on that as well, as they might make it with Widnows 7, though it's more likely they'll run a lighter OS.

[Rich Schmidt]

I've also received word that HP is working on a Slate/Tablet, so I may hold out on that as well, as they might make it with Widnows 7, though it's more likely they'll run a lighter OS.

You've received word? Was it from Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, as he held it in his hands and announced it at CES in January? :) It'll be interesting to see if HP drops Windows 7 for Palm's webOS on that slate, as is being rumored... and if so, what that will look like, how it'll work, etc.

[Shea Zellweger]

You've received word? Was it from Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, as he held it in his hands and announced it at CES in January? :) It'll be interesting to see if HP drops Windows 7 for Palm's webOS on that slate, as is being rumored... and if so, what that will look like, how it'll work, etc.

I actually did not remember the source, which is why I left it as vague as I did. I've heard the webOS rumors as well, that might be a turnoff for me, but it does have the peripherals I'm looking for. It's likely, however, that it's not multitouch...if it's running webOS and is not multitouch, I may continue holding out for iPad II, or the Android Tablet.

In related news, what I REALLY want is a Microsoft Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx), but I really have no practical use for it, other than having fun...

By the way... I haven't been able to find this anywhere, but does the iPad have a way to write using a stylus and then have what you wrote converted to text? I can do that on my HP notebook using Microsoft OneNote, and have found it helpful, as it detects the words I write, but leaves any symbols or drawings alone, which is really great for note-taking purposes.

[Rich Schmidt]

By the way... I haven't been able to find this anywhere, but does the iPad have a way to write using a stylus and then have what you wrote converted to text? I can do that on my HP notebook using Microsoft OneNote, and have found it helpful, as it detects the words I write, but leaves any symbols or drawings alone, which is really great for note-taking purposes.

Not presently. At least, not that I've read. You can buy a stylus that will work on a capacitive screen, like on the iPad, iPhone, etc. But there's no handwriting recognition built into the iPhone OS, and I've not heard of any apps for that.

[Mark Bolerjack]

Here's one for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=7H0K1k54t6A

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Steve Jobs just reported at the keynote presentation at the WWDC that 5 of 6 major book publishers are reporting that iBooks (the iPad's book feature) now has a 22% market share...in just 65 days of being available...mostly in just the US. I think that's astonishing and will obviously grow extraordinarily with more sales of iPads and more countries.

[Billy Cox]

Shea - Eventually you will join us. It is simply a matter of time. You will be assimilated into the Apple collective. (It is interesting that the company that truly arrived as an icon of American culture through the "1984" TV ad, and used "think different" as the ad campaign to restore its identity, has become what it has - a sign of conformity to social pressure - in the minds of some folks.)

I have an iPhone, and it's simply a superior product although brand-coolness has its advantages too.

[Shea Zellweger]

I have an iPhone, and it's simply a superior product although brand-coolness has its advantages too.

I know the new iPhone just came out, and I'll withhold judgment on that one, but several Droid and Windows phones easily match or beat the iPhone, and aren't trapped on AT"&T.

[Billy Cox]

I know the new iPhone just came out, and I'll withhold judgment on that one, but several Droid and Windows phones easily match or beat the iPhone, and aren't trapped on AT"&T.

Of course the real question is whether it does what one wants/needs it to do. If the answer is 'yes' then it matters little whether another product has more features.

[Shea Zellweger]

Of course the real question is whether it does what one wants/needs it to do. If the answer is 'yes' then it matters little whether another product has more features.

I won't dispute this, but the initial statement was that the iPhone is "simply a superior product." I don't think that's a defensible claim. "Suits my needs better" is a far cry from "is superior."

[Billy Cox]

I won't dispute this, but the initial statement was that the iPhone is "simply a superior product." I don't think that's a defensible claim. "Suits my needs better" is a far cry from "is superior."

Compared to every other phone I have owned, the iPhone is a superior product. :P Disagree with that if you think you can, but apparently the number of people who agree with me numbers in the millions.

[Rich Schmidt]

I won't dispute this, but the initial statement was that the iPhone is "simply a superior product." I don't think that's a defensible claim. "Suits my needs better" is a far cry from "is superior."


Compared to every other phone I have owned, the iPhone is a superior product. :P Disagree with that if you think you can, but apparently the number of people who agree with me numbers in the millions.

Might you guys want to move this conversation over to the iPhone 2010 thread (http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?805-iPhone-2010)? :)

FWIW, the reviews I've been reading lately, comparing the iPhone 4 to, for example, the EVO 4G, all are saying it pretty much comes down to personal preferences. Each phone has its strengths and weaknesses. It comes down to which aspects of the phone are more important to each person, and which aspects don't really matter.

And that's the last thing I'll say about the iPhone... on the iPad thread. :)

[Shea Zellweger]

Might you guys want to move this conversation over to the iPhone 2010 thread (http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?805-iPhone-2010)? :)

FWIW, the reviews I've been reading lately, comparing the iPhone 4 to, for example, the EVO 4G, all are saying it pretty much comes down to personal preferences. Each phone has its strengths and weaknesses. It comes down to which aspects of the phone are more important to each person, and which aspects don't really matter.

And that's the last thing I'll say about the iPhone... on the iPad thread. :)

last thing I'll say- if you'll scroll up you'll see where I explicitly excluded the new iPhone from my claim, mostly because I assume Billy doesn't have it yet.

I walked past a Mac store today, and almost went in to try out the iPad, but reminded myself that I'm broke and the 2nd generation will be better anyway.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I walked past a Mac store today, and almost went in to try out the iPad, but reminded myself that I'm broke and the 2nd generation will be better anyway.

Dude...try it... :o

(Doesn't mean you have to buy it. It could even be a great exercise for self-control. :tongue:)

[Randy Wise]

Dude...try it... :o

(Doesn't mean you have to buy it. It could even be a great exercise for self-control. :tongue:)

One day he will come out of the closet:smilies1722:

The holy fruit beckons him:o

[Jeremy D. Scott]

By the way... I haven't been able to find this anywhere, but does the iPad have a way to write using a stylus and then have what you wrote converted to text? I can do that on my HP notebook using Microsoft OneNote, and have found it helpful, as it detects the words I write, but leaves any symbols or drawings alone, which is really great for note-taking purposes.

I'm in a seminar at PALCON even as I type this and the guy in front of me is doing this (writing with a stylus) on his iPad. I haven't seen him convert it yet though...

[Billy Cox]

I was at a conference a few weeks ago where a workshop presenter used an iPad for both her notes and to display her slides. (small venue, so the audience was close enough for that to work)

At lunch, she let me fawn over her iPad, but it felt awkward in a 'rummaging through her purse' sort of way. :o

Still, I felt my heart strangely warmed by the experience. :)

[Rich Schmidt]

I won't dispute this, but the initial statement was that the iPhone is "simply a superior product." I don't think that's a defensible claim. "Suits my needs better" is a far cry from "is superior."

I just posted an interesting article quote over on the iPhone 2010 thread (http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?805-iPhone-2010) that relates to this discussion.... Just FYI. :)

[Shea Zellweger]

So I very briefly toyed with an iPad today. It was fun. In the 5 minutes I had, I couldn't quickly find an app that included the keyboard function, which was one of my concerns since I don't know if I could type comfortably on an iPad for very long. Other than that, it handled smoothly and naturally, and in the brief time I had I couldn't uncover any bugs :D.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

A few days ago I toyed with an iPad and talked to a sales person for quite some time. My conclusion was that it's a very neat but too big PDA and that it's a poor excuse for a laptop. It's impressive with great features, a terrific screen, and lots of nifty features. As a PDA, it's everything you could ever want except it's too big to fit in my pocket and won't double as a phone.

I imagined using it in place of my laptop and all I could think of was how stiff and sore my back would be after typing on it for an hour. You can get a keyboard for it but, again, how would I use it as a laptop, with the keyboard I'd have to balance the keyboard and the screen on my lap. If I'm going to use it at a desk, well, my desktop is a thousand times easier to use.

Apparently, it wasn't designed with me in mind. I'd rather have a decent smartphone and a good laptop.

[Shea Zellweger]

^^^That was my general impression as well, but not in so many words. It's great for what it is, but what it is is just not something I need.

[Billy Cox]

A few days ago I toyed with an iPad and talked to a sales person for quite some time. My conclusion was that it's a very neat but too big PDA and that it's a poor excuse for a laptop. It's impressive with great features, a terrific screen, and lots of nifty features. As a PDA, it's everything you could ever want except it's too big to fit in my pocket and won't double as a phone.

I imagined using it in place of my laptop and all I could think of was how stiff and sore my back would be after typing on it for an hour. You can get a keyboard for it but, again, how would I use it as a laptop, with the keyboard I'd have to balance the keyboard and the screen on my lap. If I'm going to use it at a desk, well, my desktop is a thousand times easier to use.

Apparently, it wasn't designed with me in mind. I'd rather have a decent smartphone and a good laptop.

I think that the iPad is designed primarily as a reader. If you do much writing/typing, then a laptop is a better tool. I think it's only a matter of time before iPad has a phone feature with a Bluetooth headset. When that time comes, I'll probably get one, but for now I can't justify the expense of both an iPhone and an iPad.

[Randy Wise]

I think that the iPad is designed primarily as a reader. If you do much writing/typing, then a laptop is a better tool. I think it's only a matter of time before iPad has a phone feature with a Bluetooth headset. When that time comes, I'll probably get one, but for now I can't justify the expense of both an iPhone and an iPad.

A consumption device much more than a production device is also what I see in reviews, with the additional comments of packaged consumption as through "specific apps".

R.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I think that the iPad is designed primarily as a reader. If you do much writing/typing, then a laptop is a better tool.


^^^That was my general impression as well, but not in so many words. It's great for what it is, but what it is is just not something I need.


A few days ago I toyed with an iPad and talked to a sales person for quite some time. My conclusion was that it's a very neat but too big PDA and that it's a poor excuse for a laptop. It's impressive with great features, a terrific screen, and lots of nifty features. As a PDA, it's everything you could ever want except it's too big to fit in my pocket and won't double as a phone.

I imagined using it in place of my laptop and all I could think of was how stiff and sore my back would be after typing on it for an hour. You can get a keyboard for it but, again, how would I use it as a laptop, with the keyboard I'd have to balance the keyboard and the screen on my lap. If I'm going to use it at a desk, well, my desktop is a thousand times easier to use.

Apparently, it wasn't designed with me in mind. I'd rather have a decent smartphone and a good laptop.

With the continued improvement of speech-to-text, these will hopefully become moot points. Android is already running s2t in any text box, and I assume iOS will eventually do so as well.

There was a time when people considered the absence of floppy drives an inconvenience too. :o

[Shea Zellweger]

With the continued improvement of speech-to-text, these will hopefully become moot points. Android is already running s2t in any text box, and I assume iOS will eventually do so as well.

There was a time when people considered the absence of floppy drives an inconvenience too. :o
I use Dragon Naturally Speaking to write sermons. One of the touted advantages is that it does not take as long as typing. In reality, it does, as you need to frequently pause and make sure the s2t is getting right, and to format what you're writing. However, I do like the program, and can see how it would be helpful for most things. It would not be helpful for writing grad school papers, because 1) I've yet to find an s2t program that recognizes theological terms and 2) it's much easier for me to write with proper grammar than to speak with same :).

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I use Dragon Naturally Speaking to write sermons. One of the touted advantages is that it does not take as long as typing. In reality, it does, as you need to frequently pause and make sure the s2t is getting right, and to format what you're writing. However, I do like the program, and can see how it would be helpful for most things. It would not be helpful for writing grad school papers, because 1) I've yet to find an s2t program that recognizes theological terms and 2) it's much easier for me to write with proper grammar than to speak with same :).

Does Dragon Naturally Speaking "learn" your voice the more that you use it?

[Shea Zellweger]

Does Dragon Naturally Speaking "learn" your voice the more that you use it?

If you take the time to teach it :). It has you read a stock group of books to it, and the more you read do, the more it learns. You can also pause in the middle of dictating and correct it, and it will learn the word over time. The problem is that it takes hints from your pauses- if you were to spit out a whole paragraph without pausing, and then say "correct that," it would seek to correct the entire paragraph, and give you 5 or 6 options. If none of those worked, you could say "spell it," and then would have to spell the entire paragraph. So realistically, until you've been using it for quite some time, it's necessary to speak slowly and in small bursts.

[Randy Wise]

Ipad mod's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6miwRw8rj6w

need a keyboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EDNSN66DI8

Kitchen Ipad Mod -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq6My3kEqqk

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Interesting read (http://theappleblog.com/2010/07/29/why-do-you-need-a-computer-to-use-an-ipad/). Do you think that this is a hit against the iPad (that you have to use a computer to use it)?

[Rich Schmidt]

Interesting read (http://theappleblog.com/2010/07/29/why-do-you-need-a-computer-to-use-an-ipad/). Do you think that this is a hit against the iPad (that you have to use a computer to use it)?

Not as big of a hit as the article makes it seem, I don't think. As long as the new iPad owner has access to a computer at a friend's house -- or even at the store where they bought it, they can get started. But still, it's one of those things that needs to change at some point. Maybe when Apple's new datacenter is finished later this year. :)

Btw, I'm typing this on my wife's new iPad. :) She got it through work today. Yeeha! :)

[Shea Zellweger]

Will this compete? http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/lenovo-lepad-to-ship-in-december-ideapad-u1-hybrid-dock-slated/

[Rich Schmidt]

Will this compete? http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/lenovo-lepad-to-ship-in-december-ideapad-u1-hybrid-dock-slated/

It's certainly an interesting idea... but there aren't enough details on it yet (including whether it will ever be sold outside of China) to know how well it would compete with the iPad.

[Jim Chabot]

Will this compete? http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/lenovo-lepad-to-ship-in-december-ideapad-u1-hybrid-dock-slated/

It shows that there is interest in a competitive offering. I like the ipad idea, although I'm thinking that I want something with flash support. With a screen of that size, we should be viewing conventional webpages, not the mobile versions.

My interest in an ipad style device would be for web surfing while watching tv, something that I currently use a laptop for. I'm thinking that an ipad sitting in a charging cradle of some sort sitting on an end table would make this very convenient.

To use it as some sort of a mobile productivity tool, I'm thinking no. If I need to get something serious done, I want a keyboard. If I'm going to carry it around for convenient access, I'm thinking that the phone will have to do, the ipad is just too big for me to keep with me.

And I'm in the Shea apple hating camp. Actually I have no animosity toward apple, but it seems that everything they make is overpriced and devoid of third party support. I'm thinking that at some point, I'll have some sort of Android based pad on the end table. I do appreciate that apple came up with the idea though.

[Billy Cox]

It's certainly an interesting idea... but there aren't enough details on it yet (including whether it will ever be sold outside of China) to know how well it would compete with the iPad.

So you have to go to China to get it... Aside from that, everyone's going to have one. ;)

[Rich Schmidt]

It shows that there is interest in a competitive offering. I like the ipad idea, although I'm thinking that I want something with flash support. With a screen of that size, we should be viewing conventional webpages, not the mobile versions.

Once there's a tablet on the market that supports Flash, we can make a comparison. So far, there isn't one. (Not counting convertible Tablet PC's, obviously.) Maybe when the Samsung Galaxy Tab finally hits the market (whenever that is). In the meantime, the iPad doesn't show the mobile versions of websites. Not any of the websites I've visited with it, anyway.


And I'm in the Shea apple hating camp. Actually I have no animosity toward apple, but it seems that everything they make is overpriced and devoid of third party support. I'm thinking that at some point, I'll have some sort of Android based pad on the end table. I do appreciate that apple came up with the idea though.

You might be interested in this article from PC World: "Apple iPad: The Low-Price Leader?"
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/205722/apple_ipad_the_lowprice_leader.html?tk=hp_new

[Shea Zellweger]

So you have to go to China to get it... Aside from that, everyone's going to have one. ;)

Or just wait a quarter or two.

[Cindi Hammons]

One of the interesting things about the iPad, as I heard the employee explain, is that you can buy the 3G model, but you don't have to have a data contract... you can turn it on for a month when you'll be traveling a lot, and then turn it off again. This makes it more likely, if I were to buy an iPad (I'm not), to pay the extra for the 3G version.

This is true. Mark just purchased his iPad last week and has had it for 3 days now. His iPad is WiFi equipped as well as 3G. Our home is set up with wireless, as is his workplace, and our church...if he wants to use the device where there is no WiFi, he goes to "settings" and must turn on the 3G. There is no monthly contract and you pay whatever you use at the end of the month. No use=no pay. We decided to go this route because unlike most of America, we do not own or use smart phones.

[Jim Chabot]

Once there's a tablet on the market that supports Flash, we can make a comparison. So far, there isn't one. (Not counting convertible Tablet PC's, obviously.) Maybe when the Samsung Galaxy Tab finally hits the market (whenever that is). In the meantime, the iPad doesn't show the mobile versions of websites. Not any of the websites I've visited with it, anyway.



You might be interested in this article from PC World: "Apple iPad: The Low-Price Leader?"
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/205722/apple_ipad_the_lowprice_leader.html?tk=hp_new

Good article and point well taken. One thing that I avoid as much as humanly possible is monthly fees. I will gladly purchase hardware, but monthly fees and a continual obligation will quickly end my fascination with most anything. We have a landline plan for each of our houses, but only one had data and long distance. Together with one cell phone plan with data and that's it. No cable, no newspaper, no periodicals and no bills!

So I guess I'm waiting for a flash enabled, wifi only, low cost tablet. And if apple is in the running so much the better. Their stuff is pretty!

[Gina Stevenson]

This is true. Mark just purchased his iPad last week and has had it for 3 days now. His iPad is WiFi equipped as well as 3G. Our home is set up with wireless, as is his workplace, and our church...if he wants to use the device where there is no WiFi, he goes to "settings" and must turn on the 3G. There is no monthly contract and you pay whatever you use at the end of the month. No use=no pay. We decided to go this route because unlike most of America, we do not own or use smart phones.

Funny, Cindi ... we've got a rather "dumbed-down" phone, too ... no "smart-ness" to it at all. In fact, it's rather much like my one that, after 4+ years, just doesn't work well [keeping it around for the alarm on it, tho' ... only one w/a raucous rooster that would be hard to sleep through.] ;)

[Jeremy D. Scott]

We decided to go this route because unlike most of America, we do not own or use smart phones.

It's looking more and more like this will be our route too. I'm having more doubts now that Apple will release the iPad 2.0 with phone capabilities about the same time of the release of the iPhone on Verizon in January (I actually believe it'll happen this time). That would be just bad business as Apple's getting better and better at the "you-guys-are-all-suckers-and-we're-going-to-hold-off-on-giving-you-the-lastest-technology-so-that-you-keep-buying-our-products-every-six-to-eight-months" thing.

So I'm still thinking of going with a tablet and a cheap phone (MetroPCS). Not sure whether the tablet will be Android or iPad.

(Of course, I reserve the right to continue changing my mind until I actually purchase something. In the meantime, it's somewhat of a hobby to pick apart which direction I'll go.)
:smilies0275:

[Rich Schmidt]

If you guys want to combine your tablet & phone stuff, you could always go with the Galaxy Tab, once it's released. It looks like it will require a contract with a carrier anyway. If I remember right, this was the dream many of you were hoping for -- a tablet that you could make calls with.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

If you guys want to combine your tablet & phone stuff, you could always go with the Galaxy Tab, once it's released. It looks like it will require a contract with a carrier anyway. If I remember right, this was the dream many of you were hoping for -- a tablet that you could make calls with.

The Samsung Galaxy Tablet will not have phone capabilities in the US.

[Rich Schmidt]

The Samsung Galaxy Tablet will not have phone capabilities in the US.

Ah. Thanks. I'd missed that. I just watched that extended preview video of it yesterday or the day before, showing off the phone book, etc. And I knew they had deals with all the cell carriers in the US. But I'd missed that it wouldn't actually make calls here.

Also, I think I was mixing it up with what I'd read about the Dell Streak requiring a voice plan as well as a data plan.

[David Morris]

Thanks to a drawing by Nazarene Publishing House from PALCON, I just won a free iPad this afternoon. It is getting shipped tomorrow from Kansas City. Pretty sure it was a drawing from all PALCON's combined, so I can only imagine how many names were in there. JACKPOT!

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Nice!!! That was supposed to be mine. :-)

Congratulations, David.

[Ryan Scott]

Thanks to a drawing by Nazarene Publishing House from PALCON, I just won a free iPad this afternoon. It is getting shipped tomorrow from Kansas City. Pretty sure it was a drawing from all PALCON's combined, so I can only imagine how many names were in there. JACKPOT!

Mine was in there like twelve times.

[David Morris]

Nice!!! That was supposed to be mine. :-)

Congratulations, David.

Thanks! Would have been nice if it were a drawing for a Mustang or Range Rover, but I will take it. Now if we can just get Verizon to sell the iPhone, I will be set...but I think we already have another thread to discuss that.

[Billy Cox]

Mine was in there like twelve times.

bummer!! Seven was the magic number. :)

[Steven Martinez]

FWIW, I talked to a NPH rep at PALCON and he said that they threw away any duplicate entries.

[Ryan Scott]

FWIW, I talked to a NPH rep at PALCON and he said that they threw away any duplicate entries.

I specifically asked the rep at our PALCON if I could put my name in multiple times. He handed me a whole pad of entry forms and said, "have at it."

[Rich Schmidt]

I specifically asked the rep at our PALCON if I could put my name in multiple times. He handed me a whole pad of entry forms and said, "have at it."

Evidently you could enter as many times as you wanted... but they were only going to count one. :)

[Betty Bolerjack]

Haven't been back to this thread in a while, but I now have an iPad and I LOVE it!! Got it Monday and have already been much more productive. I'm sure productivity will improve even more once I have the apps I want downloaded. The only down side I have seen, thus far, is the lack of "arrow keys" which are a great help in making corrections without having to completely erase and retype a word. That's especially necessary when I am in the car, I have discovered! And, no, I wasn't driving! :tongue: I did finally get my cursor where I wanted to make a correction, but that was just a fluke as far as I could tell. I'll have to figure out what I did!


Thanks to a drawing by Nazarene Publishing House from PALCON, I just won a free iPad this afternoon. It is getting shipped tomorrow from Kansas City. Pretty sure it was a drawing from all PALCON's combined, so I can only imagine how many names were in there. JACKPOT!


Nice!!! That was supposed to be mine. :-)

Congratulations, David.

No, it wasn't, Jeremy! It was definitely supposed to be mine! I actually had to put out the money for the one I got (32Gb w/3g). Had to buy one for Mark, too, (16Gb w/3g for him since he doesn't do as much with pictures) or he would have been upset at never getting to use it! :smilies0195:

A little belated, but I add my congrats, too, David! I hope you are thoroughly enjoying it like I am mine!

[David Pettigrew]

Dr. Stan Toler shows his ipad to Rev. Rob McDonald, Dallas DS, at the Denison Church of the Nazarene Centennial Celebration - October 3rd, 2010
1388

[Shea Zellweger]

Dr. Stan Toler shows his ipad to Rev. Rob McDonald, Dallas DS, at the Denison Church of the Nazarene Centennial Celebration - October 3rd, 2010
1388

Did Dr. Toler misplace his name tag, or is there an app for that?

[Mark Metcalfe]

I got one for Joy for her birthday.
Perhaps I can have my home desktop back now. ;-)

[Hans Deventer]

I got one for Joy for her birthday.
Perhaps I can have my home desktop back now. ;-)

You're a wise man, Mark!

[David Pettigrew]

Did Dr. Toler misplace his name tag, or is there an app for that?

For some reason he didn't need a nametag.

1389

[Gina Stevenson]

Well, I don't think it's something I could really afford (thinking "vehicle" now!), but yet I'm slowly being pushed towards such an "animal." My phone has about 30x what the old one did, memorywise, and yet in the NOTES area, you cannot alphabetize them! So, you can enter more notes (pictures alphabetize themselves, so why not notes!?), and then have an even longer list to go through to try to find something ...................

Was asking a tech person this earlier today, and it didn't dawn on me to say, when they suggested it was so much harder to do than just let them be as they are entered, "But, pictures always automatically alphabetize themselves, so if this can be done on this thing, should be no more of a problem for notes to be alphabetized ... just like the pics!

So, to be a bit more organized, not have to look through a cpl hundred notes, eventually .................

HEY! Since we know it can alphabetize pics, do the iPad people pay off the phone makers to *NOT* put note-alphabetizing on their phones, so folks will have to buy yet another electronic device to have things in a more organized fashion/order?? Hmmmmmm .....

[Billy Cox]

Well, I don't think it's something I could really afford (thinking "vehicle" now!), but yet I'm slowly being pushed towards such an "animal."

If you're in a high position in the General Church you can get this sort of toy for free, courtesy of vendors who 'gift you up.'

[Kevin Rector]

I was with David Graves today and he had one... I'm pretty sure all the GSes got one. He recommended waiting for one with cameras for skyping ability.

[Rich Schmidt]

Well, I don't think it's something I could really afford (thinking "vehicle" now!), but yet I'm slowly being pushed towards such an "animal." My phone has about 30x what the old one did, memorywise, and yet in the NOTES area, you cannot alphabetize them! So, you can enter more notes (pictures alphabetize themselves, so why not notes!?), and then have an even longer list to go through to try to find something ...................

Sounds like you need to try a different notes app! I don't know what phone you use, but if it allows you to install apps beyond what came with the phone, then there's probably an app out there that will suit your needs! (All I really know is iPhone. I have a free app that will alphabetize the notes if I want it to.)

[Gina Stevenson]

Sounds like you need to try a different notes app! I don't know what phone you use, but if it allows you to install apps beyond what came with the phone, then there's probably an app out there that will suit your needs! (All I really know is iPhone. I have a free app that will alphabetize the notes if I want it to.)

I don't have what you might call, "apps," per se ... that you can pick & choose. This is a file within the phone that came installed. I don't have i'net on my phone ... too much per month when already paying for DSL here on the home computer. But when I'm out & about, or even here so I'll have the info when I am out & about, I keep adding reminders, notes of things I hear I want to remember later, etc ... and then I have to scroll through a long list, that's getting longer. Even with the limited memory of the last phone, it was getting hard to find things when it was not alphabetized.

BUT YET, if you take a picture, give it a name, it pops right into alpha order in the picture list! Still bugs me that they apparently refuse to put an alpha feature in the "notes" area ... can't imagine it should be any harder to do than it was to put such a thing in the picture area.

[Betty Bolerjack]

I don't have what you might call, "apps," per se ... that you can pick & choose. This is a file within the phone that came installed. I don't have i'net on my phone ... too much per month when already paying for DSL here on the home computer. But when I'm out & about, or even here so I'll have the info when I am out & about, I keep adding reminders, notes of things I hear I want to remember later, etc ... and then I have to scroll through a long list, that's getting longer. Even with the limited memory of the last phone, it was getting hard to find things when it was not alphabetized.

BUT YET, if you take a picture, give it a name, it pops right into alpha order in the picture list! Still bugs me that they apparently refuse to put an alpha feature in the "notes" area ... can't imagine it should be any harder to do than it was to put such a thing in the picture area.

I can't remember exactly which phone you got, Gina, but as I recall, it wasn't a smart phone, so you are right that it probably does not have any apps that you can add. With a smart phone, you would be able to add an app that would do what you want (something to keep in mind for your next phone). Until you can do that or get an iPad or other such device, I guess you are stuck. :(

A more affordable option for you than an iPad might be the new color Nook from Barnes & Noble. Mark was considering one of those to save some money. It does have an internet browser and, I'm sure, will have apps available for it. It's probably still a little pricey for you at the moment, but it's something you might want to consider. With the iPad, you still would need a home computer and internet connection unless there is a way to set it up that I am not aware of. I don't know about the Nook.

[Rich Schmidt]

With the iPad, you still would need a home computer and internet connection unless there is a way to set it up that I am not aware of. I don't know about the Nook.

If you buy an iPad at an Apple store, they can set it up for you before you leave. I'm not sure about other retail outlets that are now carrying them (Walmart, Target, Verizon, etc). As long as you have a friend with a computer and internet access, you can download iTunes and get an iPad going fairly quickly.

[Gina Stevenson]

Yes, I do understand that I'm "stuck" ... but I still don't understand their saying it's much more difficult to tell the notes to go into alpha order, as if they just couldn't do it it was so hard, but yet they've got it set up so that pics go into alpha order.

Knowing I'm stuck, I still cannot make sense of one thing being able to be alphabetized readily, and being told another cannot be. Just makes me wonder if it's not a "cannot," but a "won't." Guess I want to know which it is, b/c I'm bugged by it. If they can tell *.jpg files to go A.jpg, B.jpg, etc. seems they could tell *.txt to go A.txt, B.txt, etc.

OK, guess I'm done ... but still think it's not a "can't," but a "won't." [starting to repeat myself, so I'd better quit!] ;)

[Jon Twitchell]

Yes, I do understand that I'm "stuck" ... but I still don't understand their saying it's much more difficult to tell the notes to go into alpha order, as if they just couldn't do it it was so hard, but yet they've got it set up so that pics go into alpha order.

Knowing I'm stuck, I still cannot make sense of one thing being able to be alphabetized readily, and being told another cannot be. Just makes me wonder if it's not a "cannot," but a "won't." Guess I want to know which it is, b/c I'm bugged by it. If they can tell *.jpg files to go A.jpg, B.jpg, etc. seems they could tell *.txt to go A.txt, B.txt, etc.

OK, guess I'm done ... but still think it's not a "can't," but a "won't." [starting to repeat myself, so I'd better quit!] ;)

I don't think it's either a "Can't" or a "Won't." I strongly suspect it was simply a "didn't." I bet it was an oversight when they designed the phone... and it just didn't happen.

[Gina Stevenson]

OK, Jon ... maybe b/c of a few other things in life, I've got a wee bit of a cynical streak in me. ;)

[Jeremy D. Scott]

All right...so I'm indeed waiting to purchase the iPad 2.0. We didn't end up going with the "cheap" MetroPCS phones because the Android phones that MetroPCS offers have horrible reviews and the plan for two people doesn't get much cheaper than what Meghan and I currently have. MetroPCS would have been $100/month and we're paying $110/month for T-Mobile. The extra $10/month is worth staying on with a viable and decent network, not to mention that we're now on 4G and with great phones that had great reviews (MyTouch 4G).

Anyway, but this is about the iPad.

The decision for us about iPad at this point is simply whether or not to get the WiFi only or the data-plan, assuming that this is indeed the choice when the iPad comes out. But at the moment I can only assume the current options. I'm leaning toward the WiFi only as when I'm on the move, my phone will be more than enough for GPS, etc. This will be the nice thing about having both Android and iOS options - Google Maps/Nav is better than the free options on iOS, in my opinion.

There are rumors now of the iPad 2.0 having CDMA capabilities (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/12/28/apple-to-offer-a-cdma-verizon-version-of-next-ipad/). It would have been hard for me to imagine a while ago, but could Apple possibly be doing what I thought they wouldn't: an iPad with calling plans/features on it? I'm not sure of the technical possibilities and the rumor seems to be saying that it'll be for data.

Anyway, we already have the money saved and set aside, just waiting to see the release.

Our Minister of Worship and I (and some others) are talking about using an iPad for sheet music reading during worship in the sanctuary. We've got some aspects to work out, but the more I've thought about it, the more it seems like a possibility.

[Randy Wise]

Possible ipad2 photo?

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/ipad-2-body-spotted-at-ilounge-pavilion/

[Joe Hittle]

All right...so I'm indeed waiting to purchase the iPad 2.0. We didn't end up going with the "cheap" MetroPCS phones because the Android phones that MetroPCS offers have horrible reviews and the plan for two people doesn't get much cheaper than what Meghan and I currently have. MetroPCS would have been $100/month and we're paying $110/month for T-Mobile. The extra $10/month is worth staying on with a viable and decent network, not to mention that we're now on 4G and with great phones that had great reviews (MyTouch 4G).

Jeremy,

Do you happen to know whether or not your T-Mobile 4G phone is tetherable?

Joe

[Rich Schmidt]

Possible ipad2 photo?

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/ipad-2-body-spotted-at-ilounge-pavilion/

The article says this is a mock-up created so the exhibitor could show off their battery pack/stand. It's not the iPad 2.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Jeremy,

Do you happen to know whether or not your T-Mobile 4G phone is tetherable?

Joe

Yes, it is. Well, in my mind "tethering" involves a USB cord or something. I'm not sure that it can do that. But it can act as a WiFi hotspot. I've not tried it yet.

[Joe Hittle]

Yes, it is. Well, in my mind "tethering" involves a USB cord or something. I'm not sure that it can do that. But it can act as a WiFi hotspot. I've not tried it yet.

I had the USB tethering in mind, but if this is a wifi, that's even better.

I'm interested in hearing reports in regard to how much faster 4g is to 3g via either method, once you get that far! Thanks!!

Joe

[Randy Wise]

The article says this is a mock-up created so the exhibitor could show off their battery pack/stand. It's not the iPad 2.
The article suggests its a real rear shell of the ipad2. It might be a fake.

"A rear shell purportedly from the second-generation iPad has been spotted at the 2011 ....".

R.

[Rich Schmidt]

The article suggests its a real rear shell of the ipad2. It might be a fake.

"A rear shell purportedly from the second-generation iPad has been spotted at the 2011 ....".

R.

Read the next two sentences, Randy:

"The shell, which has been marked by developer Gopod Mobile with “iPad 2” and “128GB” logos that would not appear on the actual device, is being shown paired with an iPad 2-specific foldable rechargeable battery pack developed by the company, and depicts the revised device’s redesigned curves, ports, and cameras; it is said by Gopod to represent the actual appearance of the as-yet-unreleased thinner and slightly smaller iPad."

Besides that, a quick glance at the picture of the front of the device, which shows the screen, makes it instantly clear that this is based on a knock-off, not an actual iPad.

Even if this ends up being EXACTLY what the back panel of the iPad 2 looks like, that does NOT mean that this is an actual iPad 2 lying on that table. It just means that this developer mocked up a copy to use with their battery pack/stand.

[Randy Wise]

Read the next two sentences, Randy:

"The shell, which has been marked by developer Gopod Mobile with “iPad 2” and “128GB” logos that would not appear on the actual device, is being shown paired with an iPad 2-specific foldable rechargeable battery pack developed by the company, and depicts the revised device’s redesigned curves, ports, and cameras; it is said by Gopod to represent the actual appearance of the as-yet-unreleased thinner and slightly smaller iPad."

Besides that, a quick glance at the picture of the front of the device, which shows the screen, makes it instantly clear that this is based on a knock-off, not an actual iPad.

Even if this ends up being EXACTLY what the back panel of the iPad 2 looks like, that does NOT mean that this is an actual iPad 2 lying on that table. It just means that this developer mocked up a copy to use with their battery pack/stand.

Yes its a tease but...:)

r.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

The intriguing news out right now to me, at least, is the vacation blockout for Apple retail employees on Feb 3-6. That has historically meant a product release, and while it's likely the Verizon iPhone, I'd love some news on the iPad 2.0.

[Jon Twitchell]

RE: Tethering

Jeremy, I don't know if you got something working on your phone, but EasyTether seems to work well with T-Mobile's Samsung Vibrant. (at least, it worked a couple of weeks ago...)

[Jeremy D. Scott]

RE: Tethering

Jeremy, I don't know if you got something working on your phone, but EasyTether seems to work well with T-Mobile's Samsung Vibrant. (at least, it worked a couple of weeks ago...)

Thanks, but it came with a WiFi Hotspot app already installed. I still can't imagine a scenario of when I'd need to tether.

[Jon Twitchell]

Thanks, but it came with a WiFi Hotspot app already installed. I still can't imagine a scenario of when I'd need to tether.

Ah... well that's encouraging... since that implies that T-Mo is encouraging the sharing of the data connection.

Here's your imagined scenario... your battery is dying, and you need internet access on your laptop. So you plug it into your laptop and provide internet access at the same time. ;)

[Rich Schmidt]

Ah... well that's encouraging... since that implies that T-Mo is encouraging the sharing of the data connection.

Here's your imagined scenario... your battery is dying, and you need internet access on your laptop. So you plug it into your laptop and provide internet access at the same time. ;)

I don't imagine there's anything stopping him from doing that with the WiFi hotspot, too.

BTW, tethering can be either via USB cable or over Bluetooth. I've never done either, since I have an iPhone on AT&T. :)

[David Morris]

The intriguing news out right now to me, at least, is the vacation blockout for Apple retail employees on Feb 3-6. That has historically meant a product release, and while it's likely the Verizon iPhone, I'd love some news on the iPad 2.0.

In addition to the Apple vacation blackout, I ran across this article (http://mashable.com/2011/01/07/verizon-iphone-press-event/) regarding a major Verizon announcement this coming Tuesday, Jan. 11th. Verizon iPhone? I sure hope so.

[Rich Schmidt]

In addition to the Apple vacation blackout, I ran across this article (http://mashable.com/2011/01/07/verizon-iphone-press-event/) regarding a major Verizon announcement this coming Tuesday, Jan. 11th. Verizon iPhone? I sure hope so.

So far, the consensus on all the Apple/tech sites seems to be that an iPhone for the Verizon network will be announced by Verizon at that event.

[David Morris]

Tomorrow is the very likely release of the Apple iPad 2. All those folks that won one at M11 now have an obsolete product.

[Rich Schmidt]

Tomorrow is the very likely release of the Apple iPad 2. All those folks that won one at M11 now have an obsolete product.

If anyone who won one of those "obsolete" iPads wants to give it to me, I'll happily take it. :)

("Obsolete" might be a bit strong, btw. My car isn't obsolete just because the next year's model came out with better features.)

Apple's media event is at 10:00 this morning, Pacific Time. That's noon here. I'm hoping to follow a liveblog or two during my lunch hour. :)

[Dave McClung]

Jeremy
You recently said in a post that you were having difficulty deciding whether to get the wifi only version of the iPad. Based on my experience, the wifi only is the way to go.

My iPad is Verizon enabled, but I have yet to need the Verison connection. Wifi is available in many locations. The only time I was tempted to connect through Verizon was at the Louisville airport. It still has only a wifi connection that requires payment. There was free wifi in the hotel, the convention center and most of the eating places.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Jeremy
You recently said in a post that you were having difficulty deciding whether to get the wifi only version of the iPad. Based on my experience, the wifi only is the way to go.

My iPad is Verizon enabled, but I have yet to need the Verison connection. Wifi is available in many locations. The only time I was tempted to connect through Verizon was at the Louisville airport. It still has only a wifi connection that requires payment. There was free wifi in the hotel, the convention center and most of the eating places.

Yes, I had decided that, too. The main reason is that the capability of my phone (MyTouch 4G) to be a mobile hotspot works superbly. I was in a coffee shop the other day using my laptop when the wireless went out. So I switched on the hotspot feature on my phone on and didn't notice a difference in speed at all on my computer. It was funny because other people came up to me and asked if I was "Jeremy." I had no clue how they knew my name until I realized that they were searching for networks and found mine ("JeremysMyTouch"). They didn't go as far as asking for the password. :-)

When wireless is not available (which as you said, is becoming increasingly rare), I could use my phone to provide access for the iPad.

As an update though...we put $1000 unexpected into our car on Monday, and I'm wary of ordering the iPad 2.0 this week. We'll see what happens today. Rumors are already out there that 3.0 could be as soon as September. I think my main factor will be in seeing what's available on 2.0.

(Of course...again...I could do this continually, couldn't I?) :tongue:

[Randy Wise]

Tomorrow is the very likely release of the Apple iPad 2. All those folks that won one at M11 now have an obsolete product.

Thats what Ebay is for:)

It worse with android products as a new one seems to be released every month.

Now about the ipad 3.....

R.

[Kevin Rector]

(Of course...again...I could do this continually, couldn't I?) :tongue:

Yup, and as long as you do that money that you aren't spending will continue to compound in interest, and then before long you'll be a millionaire.

[Shea Zellweger]

Yup, and as long as you do that money that you aren't spending will continue to compound in interest, and then before long you'll be a millionaire.

and with that million dollars, you can splurge and purchase every generation of iPad there is... approximately 450 of them at that point.

[Kevin Rector]

and with that million dollars, you can splurge and purchase every generation of iPad there is... approximately 450 of them at that point.

Well, that kind of is the point of life right having?

[Shea Zellweger]

Well, that kind of is the point of life right having?

perhaps, but a good nazarene would invest that $$ in leather bound first prints of every edition of the manual :)

[Randy Wise]

Yup, and as long as you do that money that you aren't spending will continue to compound in interest, and then before long you'll be a millionaire.

Not quite - the extra we invest in Apple Stock:)

R.

[Billy Cox]

Tomorrow is the very likely release of the Apple iPad 2. All those folks that won one at M11 now have an obsolete product.

Nah, not really. The term 'obsolete' is overused with about the same frequency as the term 'heretic'. My iPhone (3G) is two generations older than the current model, and surprise! I can still make phone calls with it, surf the Internet, play Angry Birds, navigate unfamiliar places using maps/GPS, and a gazillion other things. If you want to talk about obsolete, we could talk about the data disks that work only with the Smith Corona word processor/typewriter that I used throughout college. (late 80's/early 90's)

The only people who might feel bad about their first generation iPad are those who will now have to make another purchase in order to keep their early-adopter credentials. I'll probably buy an iPad sometime this year, but I'm paying off some bills first.

[Shea Zellweger]

and here it is... http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_technews/20110302/tc_yblog_technews/apple-unveils-thinner-lighter-more-powerful-ipad-2

Front and rear cameras, HDMI output, thinner, faster, and more powerful. Still no slots for removable storage.

[Rich Schmidt]

You can read all about it at Apple's website: http://www.apple.com

[David Morris]

I was tuned in to the Apple announcement by participating in the CNET live blog, which was very well done. Apple started out by touting some of their sales figures:

100 million books downloaded via iBooks, and they currently have 200 million accounts via iBooks and the iTunes store...pretty impressive. They talked about the success of the iPhone, and went on to explain their more than 90% share of the tablet market (which I do question the health of the monopoly they have on it).

After that, Steve Jobs introduced the iPad 2. There was a lot of anticipation for all of the new features it would have. A removable storage slot? Thunderbolt I/O? Retina Display? An app to double the size of your church?

Needless to say, the response was mixed. Since it wasn't streamed live, CNET was posting random comments that they were receiving in their chat room during the event. Some were expecting a product with a lot more glitz, others were very pleased. You can put me in the latter category.

1. For starters, the iPad 2 is 33% thinner than the original. It is now thinner than the iPhone 4, sitting at a razor like 8.7mm, and also 15% lighter. They were still able to maintain a 10 hour battery life with a month on stand by.
2. The iPad 2 will be a dream machine for people who make presentations. It will now display out in HD. More importantly, the cable that is used to display out will also be charging it at the same time, something that wasn't possible with the original version.
3. Dual Core A5 chips. This thing is going to be FAST!
4. The two cameras are both a very welcome addition, and will be fun to use with Skype or FaceTime.
5. They kept the price the same.

For my ordination back in August, I received an Apple gift card from my church for the exact price to purchase the 16GB WiFi Model. Then in September I won the PALCON iPad. I held onto the gift card with the intention to purchase the next model, and I sold the one I won through PALCON on Craigslist (it was a 32GB WiFi/3G - it helped me get some much needed home repairs completed). While I don't need one, I want to honor what my church did for me, and I will be purchasing the iPad 2...and I won't lie, I really do want one.

I am going to purchase the 32GB WiFi/3G (Verizon). Some good arguments are made that all you need is the WiFi version, but I think they are somewhat limited to individual circumstances. My roommate will be moving out at the end of this month because of a job transfer, and I will be dropping our DirecTV and internet. That will save me $140 a month. I will buy the monthly data plan with the iPad, load Netflix onto it, and will be good to go. Can't wait!


Nah, not really. The term 'obsolete' is overused with about the same frequency as the term 'heretic'.

I was of course joking about the obsolete comment, which I'm sure you all know.

[Rich Schmidt]

...and went on to explain their more than 90% share of the tablet market (which I do question the health of the monopoly they have on it).

At CES in January, there were over 100 different tablets on display (I saw a list), almost all of them planning to be made available for purchase this year. Some of those come from major players, like HP, RIM, Samsung, and Motorola. Just because Apple has dominated this product category so far doesn't mean they have a monopoly.

Or were you joking about the monopoly comment, too? :)

[David Morris]

Or were you joking about the monopoly comment, too? :)

Perhaps I don't completely understand the definition of a Monopoly, but when 9 out of 10 tablets sold are iPads, I would say that you pretty much own that market.

[Rich Schmidt]

Perhaps I don't completely understand the definition of a Monopoly, but when 9 out of 10 tablets sold are iPads, I would say that you pretty much own that market.

I'm not denying that they're currently dominating this market segment. But it's a very new market segment. Did Nintendo have a monopoly when they introduced the Game Boy? There were several competitors that entered the handheld gaming market in the years that followed, but Nintendo continued to dominate.

I googled the word "monopoly," and this Wikipedia entry was near the top. It might help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

[Mike Haile]

I am going to purchase the 32GB WiFi/3G (Verizon). Some good arguments are made that all you need is the WiFi version, but I think they are somewhat limited to individual circumstances. My roommate will be moving out at the end of this month because of a job transfer, and I will be dropping our DirecTV and internet. That will save me $140 a month. I will buy the monthly data plan with the iPad, load Netflix onto it, and will be good to go. Can't wait!


Might want to rethink that. $80 for the 10gb plan, I don't think it will take too long to use that much data streaming video.

[Rich Schmidt]

Might want to rethink that. $80 for the 10gb plan, I don't think it will take too long to use that much data streaming video.

Yeah, you might want to keep your internet service if you're going to stream lots of video. Unless you're going to be using someone else's wifi...

[David Morris]

Just got finished plugging in and setting up the iPad 2. Not sure what the sales figures will be, but the only Apple store in the state of Indiana was PACKED! I arrived to get in line 70 minutes before the store was set to open. I was about #600 in line. 3 hours and 4 minutes later, I walked out with a black 16GB wifi iPad. After a heads up on here (thanks Mike and Rich), I came to the conclusion that wifi was the way to go.

Rumor in the line is that there were about 2,000 iPads in stock at this store, and I was easily in the front half of the line by the time the store opened. Big thanks to my church for hooking me up 7 months ago!

[Rich Schmidt]

I was busy yesterday & last night, but I figured our local Best Buy would still have some available for me to play with (and maybe purchase) this morning. According to their website, there's not a Best Buy within 50 miles of me that has one in stock.

Oh well. I'm sure they'll get more in stock eventually. I'm in no rush. :)

[Mike Haile]

Saw today in the news where a couple of the LCD plants would be down a month or so due to the quake. Wonder how that will affect ipad sales?