Injuries, Officiating, and Drama in Sports

[Jeremy D. Scott]

When it comes to these things, I rank the four major professional sports in the US in this order: NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA

Basketball players are the drama queens. No one beats them. From Paul Pierce to LeBron James, the superstars particularly have a problem with making something out of nothing when it comes to fouls, injuries, etc. (does anyone really believe that LeBron James has a significant problem with his elbow? Come on...shooting left-handed in the last game of the last series was a joke. Give me a break...).

What gives them the ability to do it unfortunately, is quite often the officiating. Last night's game between the Celts and Cavs was pathetic at the end. The refs made some ridiculous calls (by the way...my team won, so this is not a whine), and I'm beginning to believe more and more that they are asked to contribute to the sway of the game. Even Reggie Miller, who was commentating, finally began questioning things last night. Quite often when a color commentator does this, you can feel an awkward silence from the play-by-play commentator, like they "don't want to get into that."

Then there's the MLB. It just seems like teams and individual players baby themselves more and more these days. And it doesn't seem to really reduce the injuries.

The NFL isn't so bad...if someone gets hurt, someone gets hurt. For the most part, it seems as though football players want to play as often as they can. In actual game play, there is some level of "flopping," but it's a fraction of that in the NBA.

I am the least of an expert on the NHL. But from what I've watched quite a bit lately, it seems as though when a call is made, though a player might not like it, they have a respect for the officials that I don't see as much in the other three sports. It seems to me that the officials have more power than other sports...can someone else speak to this? And when it comes to injuries...hockey players are the most likely to get back up and play.

Anyone else have thoughts?

[Billie Goodson]

I would agree with you Jeremy. Much of it seems to stem from the narcism that seems rampant today in our culture. Few athletes, especially basketball have any real interest in the concept of a "team" anymore. Sadly, the narcism seeps into so much of our culture and even our church today. Maybe it is not really that new in our church, I have encountered it among most generations. It seems that in science we came to the realization many years ago that the sun does not revolve around the earth. Maybe some day we will conclude that the earth does not revolve around the me.

[David Morris]

You want to see drama? Look no further than the World Cup this summer. Soccer is full of flops.

[Ryan Scott]

When it comes to these things, I rank the four major professional sports in the US in this order: NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA

Basketball players are the drama queens. No one beats them.

You need to watch more football, especially the Spanish league - those guys know how to make something out of nothing.

[Billie Goodson]

You want to see drama? Look no further than the World Cup this summer. Soccer is full of flops.

But in soccer (football if you prefer), IF the referee thinks you "flopped" he has the authority to penalize for it. Poor application of this ability is a major reason for the excessive diving that is seen.

[Ryan Scott]

But in soccer (football if you prefer), IF the referee thinks you "flopped" he has the authority to penalize for it. Poor application of this ability is a major reason for the excessive diving that is seen.

Same is true for basketball. Well, I suppose there is no "flopping" infraction, but they don't have to call a foul, and often times, in the right situation, will call a foul on the flopper - it's the charge/block decision most often.

[Jeff Scott]

When it comes to these things, I rank the four major professional sports in the US in this order: NHL, NFL, MLB, NBA

Basketball players are the drama queens. No one beats them. From Paul Pierce to LeBron James, the superstars particularly have a problem with making something out of nothing when it comes to fouls, injuries, etc. (does anyone really believe that LeBron James has a significant problem with his elbow? Come on...shooting left-handed in the last game of the last series was a joke. Give me a break...).

What gives them the ability to do it unfortunately, is quite often the officiating. Last night's game between the Celts and Cavs was pathetic at the end. The refs made some ridiculous calls (by the way...my team won, so this is not a whine), and I'm beginning to believe more and more that they are asked to contribute to the sway of the game. Even Reggie Miller, who was commentating, finally began questioning things last night. Quite often when a color commentator does this, you can feel an awkward silence from the play-by-play commentator, like they "don't want to get into that."

Then there's the MLB. It just seems like teams and individual players baby themselves more and more these days. And it doesn't seem to really reduce the injuries.

The NFL isn't so bad...if someone gets hurt, someone gets hurt. For the most part, it seems as though football players want to play as often as they can. In actual game play, there is some level of "flopping," but it's a fraction of that in the NBA.

I am the least of an expert on the NHL. But from what I've watched quite a bit lately, it seems as though when a call is made, though a player might not like it, they have a respect for the officials that I don't see as much in the other three sports. It seems to me that the officials have more power than other sports...can someone else speak to this? And when it comes to injuries...hockey players are the most likely to get back up and play.

Anyone else have thoughts?

For the most part, I totally agree with you only I don't understand the order in which you ranked them. Which is worst/best?

I think you have to rank them separately. I'll go with drama, from most dramatic to least:

Soccer (World Cup OR MLS.) I know this wasn't part of your list, but I don't think we can leave it out. I the flopping in soccer/football is absolutely pathetic and it happens at every level. The players even make "I'm going to die" faces and then roll around on the ground like they've blown out their knee before getting up and running a gazillion miles an hour for 60-plus minutes. This happens more in European sports, and has begun to effect the NBA and NHL. Which helps explain my rankings...
1) NBA- The level of "flopping" in the NBA is unbelievable. I wish the players would just play through fouls like they used to. There was a day when the only acceptable acting on a foul was when trying to draw an offensive foul. Paul Pierce is among the worst. He'll probably play in Europe after his NBA years are over. I think that little upfake and then lean into the defender and throw up a prayer of a shot should be called an offensive foul just on principle. The only drama I remember seeing from Bird was that one time when he slapped himself in the face.:smilies1390:
2a) NHL- The NHL players flop a lot to draw calls. I don't understand Hockey as much, and I think they NHL players are far more physical than NBA players, so the drama is different here.
2b) NFL- The QBs need to toughen up. Some of the dumbest calls are made when a defender brushes the QB the wrong way. But most of the "drama" comes from receivers and players in the secondary. Always looking for a flag.
3) MLB- I can't remember seeing a MLB player flop. I don't know how it would benefit them, unless they pretend to be hit by a pitch when they aren't, but that hardly ever happens.

Injuries (as far as being legit or not)-
1) MLB- It's hard to say just how injured a MLB player is, because they all act differently. But for every Dustin Pedroia, you have 2 JD Drews.
2) NBA- Good point about LeBron. Every player wants to look like a hero. Pierce's little knee injury in the 2008 playoffs was beyond the pale. It happens a lot.
3 (Tie)) NHL and NFL- While it's a tie, I agree with you that NHL players seem to legitimately want to be on the ice, injured or not. I can't see many NFL players not playing injured. But here it's more because they don't have guaranteed contracts and have to play injured if they want to play during the next season.

Officiating-
1,2,3,4, and 5- The NBA has the worst officiating by far. There isn't even a close second. Seriously, I don't even know why those guys are on the floor. I'm not saying it's easy, because it isn't, but it seems that they call fouls that aren't and don't call the obvious ones. Not to mention that traveling is OK in the NBA. AND, if you're an elite player, you can pretty much make the calls yourself. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but if there is a conspiracy in any sport in the world to fix games, it's in the NBA.

6- MLB- The biggest problem I have with MLB umpires is there egos. Some of them want to be bigger than the game and care more about looking like they're in charge than they care about getting the call right. But it's getting better.

7- NHL- I don't understand the rules enough to have an opinion.

8- NFL, I think, for the most part, this is the most difficult game to call. You need to be a member of MENSA to understand the particulars of the rule book. They also have instant replay to help. I know they screw up from time to time, but it's not as bad as the NBA or MLB. My only gripe is about the "don't even think about hitting the QB rules. And that's more about the rules than the refs/umps.

[Shea Zellweger]

ESPN Radio (Hattiesburg, MS) had a good segment on the lack of hustle in baseball. I do think MLB players tend to be the most "babied" in their physical wellbeing, but having watched the Mets completely destroy their lineup through not caring for injuries, I'm a little torn on this issue. I think the issue with Baseball is not so much an overprotective approach toward injuries so much as a lack of quality training. Nothing against baseball players, I absolutely love the sport, but I'm pretty certain it's the least strenuous sport of the "big 4," and yet people are regularly pulling and straining muscles, experiencing spasms, and so on. I think if you were to compare quantity of injuries to quantity of activity, the MLB would be in a league of its own, and I'm pretty sure it's not because they're over-exerting themselves.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

You need to watch more football, especially the Spanish league - those guys know how to make something out of nothing.

That's why I said "four major sports in the US." The last thing I "need" is to watch more sports. :o


But in soccer (football if you prefer), IF the referee thinks you "flopped" he has the authority to penalize for it. Poor application of this ability is a major reason for the excessive diving that is seen.

The NHL has this as well and is what may lead to the greater respect for officiating (it seems to be well-enforced).


ESPN Radio (Hattiesburg, MS) had a good segment on the lack of hustle in baseball. I do think MLB players tend to be the most "babied" in their physical wellbeing, but having watched the Mets completely destroy their lineup through not caring for injuries, I'm a little torn on this issue. I think the issue with Baseball is not so much an overprotective approach toward injuries so much as a lack of quality training. Nothing against baseball players, I absolutely love the sport, but I'm pretty certain it's the least strenuous sport of the "big 4," and yet people are regularly pulling and straining muscles, experiencing spasms, and so on. I think if you were to compare quantity of injuries to quantity of activity, the MLB would be in a league of its own, and I'm pretty sure it's not because they're over-exerting themselves.

I remember seeing or reading a piece on Nolan Ryan several years back when he was still playing that told of his extensive stretching and warming up each day. I wonder if this helped him play for so long.

[Shea Zellweger]

I remember seeing or reading a piece on Nolan Ryan several years back when he was still playing that told of his extensive stretching and warming up each day. I wonder if this helped him play for so long.

I've heard several older MLB players say they think the decreased amount of work is actually hurting the players. Of course, I've also heard older MLB pitchers insist that a 3- or 4-man rotation actually benefits pitchers long-term, and strengthens their arms. I have to say, it sounds likely to me, since it seems like players are retiring earlier these days.

[Ryan Scott]

That's why I said "four major sports in the US." The last thing I "need" is to watch more sports.

I think, technically, NASCAR is #4 right now. I know ESPN is officially referring to them as the "big 3" sports now. At least until ESPN get's an NHL television contract.

[Billie Goodson]

The NHL has this as well and is what may lead to the greater respect for officiating (it seems to be well-enforced).


I don't watch enough NHL to really have a good opinion. When I did go see a game live, I was amazed that all the players were holding each other back and the refs kind of circled the fight until they went down or wore themselves out. The reason for this was finally explained to me. I do think that if referees are insuring the safety of the participants, then they are more comfortable with the refs. When playing, I could forgive a bad call, as long as it was a safe call.

I think poor officiating is our biggest draw back on the soccer scene. After coaching at the high school level for several years, I got extremely frustrated with the quality of the officiating (and, yes -- I was a registered official as well). Poor officiating caused players to develop bad habits and perspectives and the American game suffers at the developmental level because of that.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I think, technically, NASCAR is #4 right now. I know ESPN is officially referring to them as the "big 3" sports now. At least until ESPN get's an NHL television contract.

Like I said, the four major US sports...
:tongue:

[Jim Poteet]

[QUOTE=Jeff Scott;5466]For the most part, I totally agree with you only I don't understand the order in which you ranked them. Which is worst/best?

Officiating-
1,2,3,4, and 5- The NBA has the worst officiating by far. There isn't even a close second. Seriously, I don't even know why those guys are on the floor. I'm not saying it's easy, because it isn't, but it seems that they call fouls that aren't and don't call the obvious ones. Not to mention that traveling is OK in the NBA. AND, if you're an elite player, you can pretty much make the calls yourself. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but if there is a conspiracy in any sport in the world to fix games, it's in the NBA.

That is why it is called the NEA (National Entertainment Association) rather than the NBA. It is not about fair - it is about television sets and the money they bring.

[David Morris]

Like I said, the four major US sports...
:tongue:

So why is NASCAR not a sport?

[Shea Zellweger]

So why is NASCAR not a sport?

I personally feel that classifying NASCAR as a sport would require us to do the same for things like competitive gaming (Halo, Call of Duty...). It's not that it doesn't require endurance- it does- or a specific skill set- it does- it's that the requirements for the sport are not, in my opinion, athletic. I also don't consider "Best Buck" competitions, billiards, or darts to be athletic competitions. I will, however, give the nod to synchronized swimming.

[Jim Franklin]

To me, it seems hockey is about as much sport as the caged extreme gladiators and in Fargo, ND we played grade school hockey before Little League baseball had been organized there. Of course, we played hockey without all the fisticuffs that are considered just part of the action in the pro confrontaions. They really seem to try to hurt the other guy to take him out of the action.

[Steven Martinez]

I think one of the keys to officiating is the number of refs/umpires per player. Hockey has impoved much when they added the second ref in the NHL because so many cheap plays were happening on the back end of a play when the ref and linesmens were looking ahead. While soccer/football is one of the worse officated sports on the planet, I think it is due to the lack of officials on the field. You have one official on the pitch at a time to see the play off 22 players. The Assitant officals are regulated to half of a sideline and can easily be 25-40 yards away from the play. This is what has lead to the fabrication on fouls, if you ask me, because you almost have to flop to get attention. At the same time it is a beautiful game played by dirty players who grab, kick and stomp eachother. If FIFA wants to make soccer a better game then they need start imposing some serious penalties to players who do dive and fabricate. Then again, when I played we enforced our own rules. I remember telling an opposing player that if he dove agian that the next time he came near me that there would be no need for him to dive as I would personally take him down and hard. That seemed to prevent that player from doing that again.
As far as Basketball goes, I think one of the main problems is two fold. One is that the summer AIU leagues and such do not stress defense and players forget that basketball is a contact sport. Anytime they are bumped or hit or banged into they are looking for a whistle. The second problem is that basketball on all levels have encouraged players driving to the lane by rewarding them with foul calls. It use to be that to gain those calls, one had to be in control of his body or no foul or an offensive foul would be called. Now guys like LeBron and Wade just duck their heads and drive hoping that the Seas will part or they will get bailed out. What is surprising though is that the NBA is very selective of who gets this protection. For example, Kobe and Pearce do not seem to get the protection they once did. In fact I remember watching the game this year where Kobe's finger bone was broken. The play happened 2 feet in front of the ref and he did not even whistle the play. Stephen Jackson for example was fould in the playoffs this year where his headband was litterally swated down covering his eyes and face.

[Jeff Scott]

If FIFA wants to make soccer a better game then they need start imposing some serious penalties to players who do dive and fabricate. Then again, when I played we enforced our own rules.

How 'bout this:

When a player dives, the ref should put away his yellow or red card in lieu of scorecards scoring the dive on a scale of 1-10? Then he could rate the dive on how well they performed? :smilies1722:

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I'm not sure how or if this fits into this thread, but did you see that Danny Ainge threw a towel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFmaMQTFMNs) while a Cavs player was shooting a free throw and then fined $25,000 for it (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgmwJpBqcmer5bVMdsO31B28vLYF?slug=ap-aingefined)? I don't get it...

[Billie Goodson]

How 'bout this:

When a player dives, the ref should put away his yellow or red card in lieu of scorecards scoring the dive on a scale of 1-10? Then he could rate the dive on how well they performed? :smilies1722:

As we talk about diving in soccer -- we nave to remember that stories like these give us an opportunity to say "who would have thought".

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/05/06/2010-05-06_player_gets_yellow_card_as_he_dies_of_heart_att ack.html

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Nolan Ryan was recently on the Baseball Show on 98.5 The Sports Hub here in Boston and they brought up a game that he pitched against Luis Tiant (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CAL/CAL197406140.shtml). It went into extra innings. Tiant pitched all 14.1 innings and Ryan "only" pitched 13 innings.

Can you imagine that happening today?

But it was obviously dumb for Ryan to do that...it must have shortened his career. :smilies0275:

[Jim Poteet]

Nolan Ryan was recently on the Baseball Show on 98.5 The Sports Hub here in Boston and they brought up a game that he pitched against Luis Tiant (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CAL/CAL197406140.shtml). It went into extra innings. Tiant pitched all 14.1 innings and Ryan "only" pitched 13 innings.

Can you imagine that happening today?

But it was obviously dumb for Ryan to do that...it must have shortened his career. :smilies0275:

Yeah - he was only able to pitch until he was 47!

[Mike Schutz]

I love what Nolan Ryan is saying these days about high school and college coaches not allowing pitchers to learn the game by calling pitches. He calls it Robo baseball. Ryan is almost as interesting as a baseball exec as he was as a pitcher.

[Ryan Scott]

I love what Nolan Ryan is saying these days about high school and college coaches not allowing pitchers to learn the game by calling pitches. He calls it Robo baseball. Ryan is almost as interesting as a baseball exec as he was as a pitcher.

Not to mention that he's taken a pitching staff in shambles and turned them into a pretty decent staff in just a few years. Nice to see an exec come down to the field and work with guys now and then (at least an exec who knows what he's doing).

[Jeff Scott]

Not to mention that he's taken a pitching staff in shambles and turned them into a pretty decent staff in just a few years. Nice to see an exec come down to the field and work with guys now and then (at least an exec who knows what he's doing).

You kinda get the sense Nolan Ryan could put on some spikes and tow the rubber for middle relief and be effective!

[Shea Zellweger]

You kinda get the sense Nolan Ryan could put on some spikes and tow the rubber for middle relief and be effective!

At the beginning of the decade, someone told me Ryan was clocked at 85 mph...

[Ryan Scott]

He developed arthritis or he'd probably still be pitching.