Modesty at Easter....please!!!!!

[Ian Gentles]

At our Good Friday service was again confronted my a site i realy dont need to see, and please forgive me for raising it, honestly I am not trying to be crude!! But again a young female bent in prayer, her jeans riding down, giveing me a facefull ot rear end covered with underwear. Please you ere, wont say older, ere more mature ladies, teach the young ladies of today decorum and modesty in dress!

[Ian Gentles]

oH DEAR, OH DEAR, come on, please replies, as an old guy it wasnt a problem, but what off younger men, please dont ignore their needs!!!

[Billy Cox]

At our Good Friday service was again confronted my a site i realy dont need to see, and please forgive me for raising it, honestly I am not trying to be crude!! But again a young female bent in prayer, her jeans riding down, giveing me a facefull ot rear end covered with underwear. Please you ere, wont say older, ere more mature ladies, teach the young ladies of today decorum and modesty in dress!

Could have been worse. :eek:

[Donna Adams]

Ian, if you know this girl go to her and tell her what you saw...be a father to her.

[Ann Smith]

I wonder if she would listen to this old woman. I get real frustrated at the way young people dress today. When I see my granddaughter dressed what I call inappropriately I tell her so. She doesn't like it. Usually her mother who is much more liberal in dress than I am will agree with me. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. I think I would have said something to her in a kind way.
Ann

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Ian, I actually would be afraid for you to speak to the woman. People are so esy to make something "out of nothing" these days. But, I know exactly what you mean, but I tried to teach my daughters to be modest.
Our brother in law, reached past a lady to let someone see a picture of his wife that had died. She made her husband think that he had purposely touched her somewhere, and they were going to leave the church. His wife was Dwayne's sister who had died with cancer. He is an ordained elder.
It is so sad how people don't seem to have correct "home training" anymore.

[Gerald Spear]

Could this be a results of the Modern version of "come as your are", to church services.

The respect for a place of worship has being going down the drain for a number of years, many more liberals have been sounding the trumpet to let people feel at home and come as they dress at home.

So why make a negative comment about something that we have invited to happen.

Maybe one of your motherly women should take the girl to the store and buy her a nice Easter Church Dress.

Do I condone this action? No, I say dress for the occasion, you are going to meet the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, His robe will be undescriably beautiful. Dress for the occasion.

HE AROSE

gerald

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

i'm just glad the girl was in church - period - - no matter how she was dressed. At least she was hearing the Word and seeds were being planted.

Jesus looketh upon the heart.

Outward appearances take care of themselves in time.

[Marg Webb]

I understand our Pastor talked very gently to the congregeration awhile back about dressing provocative.
He is very well respected and there was no hurt feelings.

Marg.

[Hans Deventer]

Do I condone this action? No, I say dress for the occasion, you are going to meet the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, His robe will be undescriably beautiful. Dress for the occasion.

So the King of Kings would want me to dress in something I feel very uncomfortable in? I hate suits and ties. And He Himself did not wear any either.

When I have to preach, I usually dress up. Not because Jesus would want that, but because I have to be a "Jew to the Jews and a Greek to the Greeks". If I want God's message to be heard, I should not make the way I dress distract from the message. That is the only reason. So I "suffer" for the sake of the gospel.

I normally go to church the way I dress at home, which is also the way I dress at the office. That's who I am.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

I understand our Pastor talked very gently to the congregeration awhile back about dressing provocative.

I knew a lady who wore a very short, tight dress with a very low neckline to church revealing much of the figure she seemed to be proud of... Then she complained/accused the pastor of looking at her inappropriately.

Wilson

[John Kennedy]

One of my father's favorite expressions was that "some people would kick if you hung 'em with new rope."

[Judy Hamilton]

Me Too Ian i agree with Belinda...i am thankful the girl was seeking..
and at least her rear was covered with underwear
grace is there for each one
and who-so-ever-surely meanth (hopefully not lost for long )
this lost lassie

Just shut your eyes

and concentrate next time on the song lyrics

"Turn your Eyes Upon Jesus"

best advice i have my friend..two cents and it will not even
get you a cup of coffee


Judy

[BobHunt]

Id like a study done, to see if when a girl is raped, and she is outside of the home...what she is wearing. Is there any connection with the power of suggestion to the eyes of the rapist? I am not taking any blame away from the rapist, but would the girls help in any way by dressing a little more conservative? Do the men at church have to know what color of underwear the girls wear? I dont think this is too conservative to ask the girls to dress a little more properly. Unless the church wants to buy us men blinders LOL!

[Shawn Flynn]

Of course dressing provocatively is not an exuse for any rape, I know you know this, but I agree with you, it doesn't help the situation. It reminds me of the incidence at Duke - if she wasn't there doing what she did, dancing provocatively, then she might not had been "raped." As my Grandpa always said, "if its not forsale, you should take down your sign."

But you know, this is just one example where our choices charge the atmosphere for something to happen and we might just get caught in the crossfire. Gambeling, drinking, gossiping, etc... are others.

Getting back to the thread topic, I remember I had to remove myself from the situation and have Samantha, my fiance', take care of the situation when a scantily clad woman came into the foyer at church during a service looking for assistance. I didn't know who came in, but once I saw her I got Samantha real quick. We need to be sensitive to know when we need to remove ourselves from bad environments.

[Gina Stevenson]

Just shut your eyes

and concentrate next time on the song lyrics
Hi, Judy! Ian mentioned how he was as concerned re the younger guys who might have a harder time than he might have re closing their eyes ... so, it's not always just a matter of "shut your eyes." ;)

Yes, glad she was there ... but wouldn't this fall under the direction we read to us as "older (oh, no!) women" ... helping those younger women [very gently, I might add, emphasis on the "gently"] understand such things, rather than falling under the "just ignore it and it will go away" category? Sometimes it might happen ... sometimes might take years (with a lot of people having trouble concentrating on worship in the meantime) ... sometimes it might never ... without an older woman lovingly ... gently ... helping ... ????

PS * SHAWN, have heard a lot of sayings, but don't know if I've heard that one that your grandpa said, but it makes a lot of good sense: "If it's not for sale, take down the 'for sale' sign." ;)


'Not wanting to sound like some legalist re dressing ... but can't quite ignore the commands to modest dressing ... and older women helping younger in various areas ... that we find in the Scriptures. ;)

[Bob Evans]

In responce to Bob Hunts suggestion about the visual cues for rape research shows that rape is a crime of power over the woman and not of sexual attraction.

I think modesty is an issue of spiritual growth. Lets pray she finds the Lord and the spirit leads her in this area.

[Judy Hamilton]

[QUOTE=

I think modesty is an issue of spiritual growth. Lets pray she finds the Lord and the spirit leads her in this area.[/QUOTE]

I was responding to Ian's post from this angle...and just thankful that the girl
was in church

would you have talked to her had she been in the movies, in a mall??

No probably not...however what measures would you have taken for your eyes in a secular situation?? Take the same for your mind and eyes when confronted in the person in the pew in front of you

move to another place in the santuary...and pray for the girl that has offended you

if she is not part of a youth group...then allow the Holy Spirit to continue to
grow her in Christ...and He will

If she regularly attends the church..you could make mention of your concern to the youth leader...however careful to be not accusatory

When I was 12 and I came to Christ..and the next day was knocking on doors inviting those in my neighborhood to come to church

and
in the hot Dallas summer... I was wearing SHORTS!!!!

so someone gently took me aside and taught me that shorts had a time and place, however church visitation was not the time and the place

Judy

BTW how DO you work the QUOTE thingy anyway?????????

[Ian Gentles]

There is a simply difference between the sexes, major oint here being, males are turned on by sight. Origenal incident i mentioned wasnt just a revealing of top half of undergarment, but could see the rear leg below garment, which was overkill. Now, I am sure the young lady was most respectable girl, and yesssss she was in church which says an awfull lot for her in my book! I sure aint seeking to **** her in any way, just seen sights like this too often in church, and it isnt right.
I am all for casual dress, isnt me, but I mdont care if folks wear rags as long as they are in church!
Rape question raised is a hard one. Sadly, many girls dressing provocativly may well be, for give the saying, "Asking for it". My only comment here is, in 56 years seen women in all forms of dress and never thought of raping anyone, so bottom lign is there is no excuse for rape. However, and poster raised a good point, young guys feel a gal scantly dressed is sending em aq message!!
Whole purpose of my posting this thread is a concern for christian young women, not a desire to return to legalism, but that they think about their dress!

PS hate to see young guys with pants down over their hips and boxers showing just as much

[Gina Stevenson]

three things, Judy:

(1) for the "quote" deally to work, if you've not copied the whole thing ... or want to split it up and write inbetween, here's how (using parentheses where the squared brackets go, so it won't go into the quote mode, but will show how it is done):

(quote=Judy C)then whatever you've copied/pasted here. At the end of the quote ... or to end a portion of it to add your own note, you put this at the end ... (/quote)

Now, this will be in one of those quote boxes ... from "then whatever ..." to "at the end ..."

EDITED to add the above illustrated in final form: then whatever you've copied/pasted here. At the end of the quote ... or to end a portion of it to add your own note, you put this at the end ...

So, basically, the most you'll have to remember is the pink front/back notes above; not too bad.

(2) When I was 12 and I came to Christ..and the next day was knocking on doors inviting those in my neighborhood to come to church and in the hot Dallas summer... I was wearing SHORTS!!!!

so someone gently took me aside and taught me that shorts had a time and place, however church visitation was not the time and the place

Judy
the underlined portion is just what I was speaking about in my post ... the older women (we're "them" now ... huh? :rolleyes:) helping the younger in such things. yes, the "Holy Spirit" can speak directly to them ... yet the Lord tells us to do it human-to-human for some reason ... perhaps to show them, if done right/gently, that continuing accountability might not be such a horrible thing, afterall ... ?? Finally, re this "older women ... younger women" thing ... we sometimes don't want that heavy responsibility to be that "older woman" to some "young woman," since however we might try to be "gentle," it might not always be perceived as that ... so, we should perhaps proceed with caution ... much prayer ... so that both she and we will be ready for such a ... uh ... "gentle confrontation."

(3) Now, let's see ... what was that 3rd thing!? Oh, yeah ... Ian had it right when mentioning how men & women are wired differently ... reminding us how men are very visual (yeah, we don't forget ;)), and then bringing up men with their pants way down. Well, it made such things seen in the past come to mind ... the "plumber at work" look ... and women certainly aren't visual, in that manner, anyway ... because it's definitely not alluring ... but rather disgusting. :basic05

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

Looking at others ----
Sometimes fills the heart with lust

Looking at others ----
Sometimes fills the heart with envy

Looking at others ----
Sometimes fills the heart with anger

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with sadness

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with compassion

Looking at others - - -
Sometimes fills the heart with admiration

Looking at others - --
Sometimes fills the heart with longings

Looking at others - --
Sometimes fills the heart with grace

Looking at others - --
Sometimes fills the heart with thankfulness

Looking at others - - -
Sometimes fills the heart with condemnation

Looking at others --
Sometimes fills the heart with tenderness

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with memories

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with anguish

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with imaginations

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with Praises to God

Looking at others - - -
Sometimes fills the heart with determination

Looking at others -- -
Sometimes fills the heart with conspiring of deeds

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with -----------


Looking at others. Hmmm, is it the issue of others or the one with eyes to see?

Looking at others with negativity or positivity - is it the responsibility of others or of the one with eyes to see?

Male - female.

Does the sex really determine the responsibility?

[Gina Stevenson]

Looking at others ----
Sometimes fills the heart with lust

Looking at others ----
Sometimes fills the heart with envy

Looking at others ----
Sometimes fills the heart with anger

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with sadness

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with compassion

Looking at others - - -
Sometimes fills the heart with admiration

Looking at others - --
Sometimes fills the heart with longings

Looking at others - --
Sometimes fills the heart with grace

Looking at others - --
Sometimes fills the heart with thankfulness

Looking at others - - -
Sometimes fills the heart with condemnation

Looking at others --
Sometimes fills the heart with tenderness

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with memories

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with anguish

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with imaginations

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with Praises to God

Looking at others - - -
Sometimes fills the heart with determination

Looking at others -- -
Sometimes fills the heart with conspiring of deeds

Looking at others ---
Sometimes fills the heart with -----------


Looking at others. Hmmm, is it the issue of others or the one with eyes to see?

Looking at others with negativity or positivity - is it the responsibility of others or of the one with eyes to see?

Male - female.

Does the sex really determine the responsibility?

While there is a lot to be said for the "eyes of the beholder" -- again, not to be legalistic -- but in sptie of compassion (which we don't mind "doing" as much) ... there's that suggestion that we "older women" help the "younger" ones ... not harping ... preaching ... whatever. Don't even like the idea myself of being at an age where possibly that "responsibility" in Scripture might apply to me ... approaching someone like that has got to be one of the more uncomfortable things one might be called on to do. In fact, it's been years since I was up to at least trying to have a thing to say to anyone about something like that ..................... ;)

Not trying to be argumentative ... just trying to figure where our responsibility given in Scripture begins & ends ... especially when it might involve some things we find hard to do. Anyone felt led to (so "had to") do such a thing lately ... suggestions on the "how" ... ???

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

Well, Gina - let's not argue - let's discuss.

Btw - what is the difference in arguing and discussing? *smiles*

To the subjects at hand - mentor and eyes of the beholder.

One can't parent without having a child.
One can't teach without having a student.
One can't mentor without having a student.

What makes a student? In our culture today, it is very hard to find people who are willing to learn from others. We see lots of people who are eager to teach others what they know, but have become unteachable themselves.

When it comes to listening to the elders, one of the things that makes that difficult is that it is the elders who *taught* me to gossip, casts judgements, be legalistic in my views. It is an ongoing process to try to break many of those teachings. Therefore, for me to listen to an *elder*, means for me to be careful of which elder i will allow into my world as my mentor. Just because one is an elder doesn't make them qualifiable material for me to have as my mentor.

With this in mind, the ones coming into our churches will be watching the saints to see which ones bear the honorable acceptance to be considered a mentor of their growth into adulthood and their Christian walk.

Those are my thoughts at this moment.

[Gina Stevenson]

Therefore, for me to listen to an *elder*, means for me to be careful of which elder i will allow into my world as my mentor. Just because one is an elder doesn't make them qualifiable material for me to have as my mentor.

Yes, this is a mouthful ... and I agree ... just that sometimes, once someone has a relationship with someone younger, there are those times where one might then be impressed (via one of those "things" someone cannot get away from until heeded). It's nicer to just be able to give out such information in the form of answers to questions.

Yes, it might even be rare when the mentor takes the initiative to bring up a subject, rather than simply discussing/responding to a younger one's questions ... this is probably the ideal situation, anyway ... responding to questions. Perhaps the mentor ... or folks who might be "mentor material" currently being in relationship with younger women ... could pray that, if they see something of concern, someone might even be made cognizant enough of it to ask the right questions so the right answer to whatever situation exists might be found.