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BobHunt
16th April 2006, 12:20 PM (12:20)
to me ( and I am not pointing at anyone in particular) that many COTN people are not interested in any portions of prophecy. Why is it troubling to me? Because som of the same prophets who have about the Day of the Lord, the Second return, also spoke, predicting the coming of Christ as a Babe in a manger. They are also the same prophets who spoke in Isa 53 and foretold the sufferings of Jesus. They were the same ones who spoke in Amos and cleared up the picture of the end times when they said in other words that one day they would come back and make things right. I am refering to "On that day, I will raise up the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, and repair the damages. I will riase up its ruins and rebuild it as in the days of old." All of us know that the temple will be rebuilt. And this same prophecy is told in Acts, where it is quoted from Amos, and there it says this shall be done so that the Gentiles will seek the Lord.
If we deny the authenticity of these prophets of old, we deny the verses that foretell the second return of Jesus. It is said somewhere that if we seek to take away or to add to the srciptures, we live dangerously. Because man -- finite man have speculated about the future events and their predictions did not come true does not mean that we discard all future prophecies and all the ones found in the scripture.
Israel became a nation....1948? This was foretold. And it is thrilling to me to parallel current events with what the scriptures have to say. If you look further you will find it speaking of a couple countries who move down from the north towards Israel, and it all consumating in the last great Battle of Arageddon. Many have speculated that this could be Russia and China. Folks, despite what it looks like, Russia and China are not on very good terms with Israel and/or USA either. When they aid the enemies, they only show us false prestenses when they smile and shake hands with us and act like everything is ok.
I have a special place in my heart for the Jewish people. They have been persecuted down through the centuries and are still. If you dont believe that, go to the several halocaust museums around the world. See hair and shoes that once belonged to a Jewish person, but they have since been sent to the gas chambers. I have seen and heard one Jewsih man, who had his arm cut off and other things done to his family because he was accused of being a Jesus hater. People have blamed the Jews for killing Jesus, even tho they consulted and conspired with the Romans. This is something they have lived with and are still today very sensitive to.
One of the ways we can tell if a prophet is really a true prophet, is that his predictions come true. The prophet Isaiah, who foretold the sufferings and victories of Jesus, also spoke of His return.
If the NT writers spoke and said that Jesus would return in the twinkling of any eye, if they spoke and said that the dead in Christ would be raised first, and then spoke and said that we which remain would meet them in the air, and that we would all be changed.....and we believe all of this and prepare ourselves for it, why can not we beive the same writers who say "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when I come back?" Why cant we believe these same writers when they give us items to look for that will let us know that His coming is close? These writers are the same ones who have written under the inspiration of God. In the COTN is the 24th chap of Matthew never spoken of? The place where is says that in the last days there will be rumors of wars, nation against nation, that there will be a great number of earthquakes, that there will be great sorrows, and many shall betray one another and many false prophets who speak about God but are far from Him, ......and then the end shall come? Do we just skip over that because we dont want to make a fool out of ourselves and dont want our church people to realize we dont know what it means?
What do we do with the scriptures in the OT and New where it says that in the last days "I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams?" It was quoted by Peter on or around the day of Pentecost. He said "I will show wonders in the Heavens." I dont know where you live and how it is there, but there is a great fascination here with the stars, with the moon and their movements. There is also a great fascination with the air shows. When they have one in Chicago, the whole city is wall to wall people. What do they use in scarey movies? Many times a thunderstorm. Yes, I suppose you will say this is impossible also.
The fact is, that we should live every day, every moment, every breath, as if it was our last one. Sometime it will be, and some of us will be surprised about our notions about the scriptures.

Paul Whitaker
16th April 2006, 09:20 PM (21:20)
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I feel the same way.

Many do not agree with us.

Billy Cox
16th April 2006, 10:04 PM (22:04)
In the COTN is the 24th chap of Matthew never spoken of? The place where is says that in the last days there will be rumors of wars, nation against nation, that there will be a great number of earthquakes, that there will be great sorrows, and many shall betray one another and many false prophets who speak about God but are far from Him, ......and then the end shall come?



If I am a Christ follower, seeking His kingdom and righteousness, loving God and loving my neighbor as myself, what difference does it make whether Jesus returns tomorrow or in another 1,000 years? Either way, I am ready.

There are certainly interesting signs of the end, but then there have been signs since Jesus ascended to heaven.

Paul Whitaker
16th April 2006, 10:07 PM (22:07)
Isn't it exciting to know that we're ready when HE DOES COME?

Wilson L. Deaton
16th April 2006, 10:11 PM (22:11)
... many COTN people are not interested in any portions of prophecy....

I think you're jumping to an incorrect conclusion here. Just because people don't agree with the interpretation that you adhere to, that doesn't mean they aren't interested in prophecy.

What do we do with the scriptures in the OT and New where it says that in the last days "I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams?" It was quoted by Peter on or around the day of Pentecost....

This very point is why I don't put a whole lot of stock in interpreting current affairs. Peter used current events on the first Pentecost in reference to "last days." That is one reason why I believe last days refers to the period of time between the ascension and the second coming. The "last days" have already lasted 2000 years so they could last another 2,000 or 10,000 or just 3.

The fact is, that we should live every day, every moment, every breath, as if it was our last one. Sometime it will be, and some of us will be surprised about our notions about the scriptures.

Here we are in complete agreement:

I have, in fact, preached on Matthew 24.... My conclusion was, "He'll come when not expected and bring judgment.... Maybe not this year.... Maybe not before 3000 A.D. Maybe at 12:17:30 this afternoon. This passage is a call to constant readiness."

Finally, while I'm interested in prophecy I don't spend a great deal of time trying to figure it out and calculate specifics, etc., because of:
Acts 1:6-7
So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
[7] He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.


The way I figure it, if "it's not for me to know," I shouldn't be trying to figure it out.

Wilson

John Kennedy
17th April 2006, 01:24 AM (01:24)
to me ( and I am not pointing at anyone in particular) that many COTN people are not interested in any portions of prophecy. Why is it troubling to me? Because som of the same prophets who have about the Day of the Lord, the Second return, also spoke, predicting the coming of Christ as a Babe in a manger. They are also the same prophets who spoke in Isa 53 and foretold the sufferings of Jesus. They were the same ones who spoke in Amos and cleared up the picture of the end times when they said in other words that one day they would come back and make things right. I am refering to "On that day, I will raise up the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, and repair the damages. I will riase up its ruins and rebuild it as in the days of old." All of us know that the temple will be rebuilt. And this same prophecy is told in Acts, where it is quoted from Amos, and there it says this shall be done so that the Gentiles will seek the Lord.
If we deny the authenticity of these prophets of old, we deny the verses that foretell the second return of Jesus. It is said somewhere that if we seek to take away or to add to the srciptures, we live dangerously. Because man -- finite man have speculated about the future events and their predictions did not come true does not mean that we discard all future prophecies and all the ones found in the scripture.
Israel became a nation....1948? This was foretold. And it is thrilling to me to parallel current events with what the scriptures have to say. If you look further you will find it speaking of a couple countries who move down from the north towards Israel, and it all consumating in the last great Battle of Arageddon. Many have speculated that this could be Russia and China. Folks, despite what it looks like, Russia and China are not on very good terms with Israel and/or USA either. When they aid the enemies, they only show us false prestenses when they smile and shake hands with us and act like everything is ok.
I have a special place in my heart for the Jewish people. They have been persecuted down through the centuries and are still. If you dont believe that, go to the several halocaust museums around the world. See hair and shoes that once belonged to a Jewish person, but they have since been sent to the gas chambers. I have seen and heard one Jewsih man, who had his arm cut off and other things done to his family because he was accused of being a Jesus hater. People have blamed the Jews for killing Jesus, even tho they consulted and conspired with the Romans. This is something they have lived with and are still today very sensitive to.
One of the ways we can tell if a prophet is really a true prophet, is that his predictions come true. The prophet Isaiah, who foretold the sufferings and victories of Jesus, also spoke of His return.
If the NT writers spoke and said that Jesus would return in the twinkling of any eye, if they spoke and said that the dead in Christ would be raised first, and then spoke and said that we which remain would meet them in the air, and that we would all be changed.....and we believe all of this and prepare ourselves for it, why can not we beive the same writers who say "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when I come back?" Why cant we believe these same writers when they give us items to look for that will let us know that His coming is close? These writers are the same ones who have written under the inspiration of God. In the COTN is the 24th chap of Matthew never spoken of? The place where is says that in the last days there will be rumors of wars, nation against nation, that there will be a great number of earthquakes, that there will be great sorrows, and many shall betray one another and many false prophets who speak about God but are far from Him, ......and then the end shall come? Do we just skip over that because we dont want to make a fool out of ourselves and dont want our church people to realize we dont know what it means?
What do we do with the scriptures in the OT and New where it says that in the last days "I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams?" It was quoted by Peter on or around the day of Pentecost. He said "I will show wonders in the Heavens." I dont know where you live and how it is there, but there is a great fascination here with the stars, with the moon and their movements. There is also a great fascination with the air shows. When they have one in Chicago, the whole city is wall to wall people. What do they use in scarey movies? Many times a thunderstorm. Yes, I suppose you will say this is impossible also.
The fact is, that we should live every day, every moment, every breath, as if it was our last one. Sometime it will be, and some of us will be surprised about our notions about the scriptures.




I reiterate: few things have generated more heat and less light than the obsession of some Christians with eschatology. Jesus is going to return - we confess that. When and in what manner we have absolutely no idea - our essential responsibility is to be ready, not fixated on the details and particulars.

I have seen 'Christians?' attack others of the community of faith because they didn't agree with their beliefs about the end time. You can almost picture the One who will return sadly shaking his head and saying "You people just don't get it!"

FEW OTHER ISSUES HAVE GENERATED MORE HEAT AND LESS LIGHT !!!

Hans Deventer
17th April 2006, 03:37 AM (03:37)
FEW OTHER ISSUES HAVE GENERATED MORE HEAT AND LESS LIGHT !!!

John, I agree and I have to confess, I have been part of that. Hot heads and cold hearts. I know.

Bob, keep reading Brennan Manning and living accordingly, and you'll live the life the prophets want you to live and you'll be reading when our Lord returns. That, to me, is what all the prophecy is about.

Barbara Moulton
17th April 2006, 07:49 AM (07:49)
Some people immerse themselves in the study of the prophets. They enjoy looking at current events and determining where they fit into the prophetic messages concerning the last times.

Personally, I don't find that study compelling at all. But why should you find it very troubling that some of us feel this way? We aren't denying the authenticity of the prophets. We fully appreciate their messages about the first and second coming of Christ. We acknowledge that Christ will return, we simply don't worry about trying to track down the timetable.

The fact is, that we should live every day, every moment, every breath, as if it was our last one. Sometime it will be, and some of us will be surprised about our notions about the scriptures.

We can live this way, without spending time drawing parallels between Biblical prophecy and current events. All of it is just speculation anyways. As you rightly point out, none of us know for sure.

And if this moment was my last one, I would rather Christ find me engaged in a compassoinate ministry than in prophetic study.