Will death change our character?

[Hans Deventer]

I'm reading Dallas Willard's The Divine Conspiracy. On page 331, he writes:

There is a widespread notion that just apssing trough death transforms human character. Discipleship is not needed. Just believe enough to 'make it'. But I have never been able to find any basis in scriptural tradition of psychological reality to think this might be so. What if death only forever fixes us as the kind of person we are at death? What would one do in heaven with a debauched character or a hate-filled heart?

Does remind you of the (in our circles well known) verse from Hebrews 12:

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Still, the idea of one's character being fixed is troublesome to me. Are we "heaven material" at death yet?

[Barbara Moulton]

I believe that holiness is being all that God wants us to be in this moment. As I respond to His revelation I am holy.

What makes me "heaven material" at death is the fact that I have surrendered to His leading.

It is that surrendered spirit that I take "into heaven" but in that eternal moment, I will have a complete revelation of God to surrender too.

So I will be different.

[Dave McClung]

We have so few insights into what happens after death that I don't think anyone can be fully confident about what it will be like. Last week, I heard the "Bible Answer Man" explain what will happen after death. I was a little amused at how complex he made it in order to try to be consistent with all of the various passages that give insight.

One of the insights he focused on was the story of the "Rich Man and Lazarus." In that story, a person who was very uncaring during his life became very concerned about his relatives after death. I have often wished that Jesus would have given more details in that story, but he didn't.

The Bible Answer Man believes that there will be two levels of judgment; although, he is careful not to use the term "judgment" for the first one. He said that at the time of death a person's "soul" (those of us who have accepted tricotomy theory would say "spirit") will pass to "Abrahams Bosom" or to "Hades" depending upon whether or not the person was saved (He also talked about "good works"). According to his explaination, there would be no pronouncement of judgement at the time of death -- it would just happen that way. Then, at a later date there will be a resurrection when the "soul and body" will reunite (tricotomy believers would say "soul, spirit and body") After the resurrection, those who have died and those who have not will face judgment.

I still struggle with the "two judgment" idea. It seems to me that if a determination of "Abraham's Bossom" or "Hades" is made at the time of death and there is no opportunity to change the determination prior to judgment, then the judgment is meaningless. Dr. Les Parrott has written a book on the subject that will be published by NPH. He told me that he deals with that issue in his book, but he hasn't told me how he deals with it.

My own conclusion is that God is not bound by time like we are. C.S. Lewis believed that God is not bound by time. I share his belief. Why must a God who is not bound by height, width, or breadth, somehow be bound by duration?

My own theory is that time as we know it ends at death. To the degree that I understand it, the sequence will be death, resurrection, judgment, then eternity, but that no time will pass during that sequence.

The concept that I continue to struggle with is the resurrection. Throughout the history of Christianity, the resurrection has been a very important concept. Frankly, I struggle with understanding the importance of the connection between the earthly body and the eternal body. If it were not for the necessity of a resurrection, then a "one judgment" theory would work.

Hans, I realize that I strayed a long way from your original post, but yours provided an opportunity for me to share some of what has been going through my mind since I heard the "Bible Answer Man."

Dave

[Hans Deventer]

The concept that I continue to struggle with is the resurrection. Throughout the history of Christianity, the resurrection has been a very important concept. Frankly, I struggle with understanding the importance of the connection between the earthly body and the eternal body.

I think (but not more than that) that it is important to God because He really wants the creation to become what He always planned. And probably also in order to make clear that death is completely overcome, even down to our bodies.
And it might be that our bodies are more part of who we are (the holistic idea) than we tend to think. Humans are not imprisoned spirits, they were created as one, spirit and body.

Some guesses!

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

During one of my breaks yesterday, i was reading where someone expressed that one strives all their lives to *live* - to get the to point of death and finally be ready to *live*.

Perhaps, we strive to be perfect, when in reality we need to just rest in His perfection?

[Hans Deventer]

Perhaps, we strive to be perfect, when in reality we need to just rest in His perfection?

How would you difine "resting in His perfection"?

Considering John Wesley who wrote this on justification:

4. Least of all does justification imply, that God is deceived in those whom he justifies; that he thinks them to be what, in fact, they are not; that he accounts them to be otherwise than they are. It does by no means imply, that God judges concerning us contrary to the real nature of things; that he esteems us better than we really are, or believes us righteous when we are unrighteous. Surely no. The judgment of the all-wise God is always according to truth. Neither can it ever consist with his unerring wisdom, to think that I am innocent, to judge that I am righteous or holy, because another is so. He can no more, in this manner, confound me with Christ, than with David or Abraham. Let any man to whom God hath given understanding, weigh this without prejudice; and he cannot but perceive, that such a notion of justification is neither reconcilable to reason nor Scripture.

Would the same not go for sanctification, if not stronger even?