Clergy Surplus

[Jeremy D. Scott]

We've talked about the difficulty for many pastors and ministers in finding churches these days. Here's an article in the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/from-clergy-shortage-to-c_n_566934.html) about the issue (including stats from the CotN).

[Kevin Rector]

Wow, the COTN never makes the news.

Here's a good quote from the article:


Whether there is a shortage or a surplus depends to a degree on perspective. If you're a denominational official responsible for filling empty pulpits, it can be difficult to find willing clergy. But if you're an unemployed minister looking for a church position with a livable wage, the prospects are bleak.

[Ryan Scott]

We're one of the few denominations with a research department - journalists like statistics.

[Billy Cox]

We've talked about the difficulty for many pastors and ministers in finding churches these days. Here's an article in the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/from-clergy-shortage-to-c_n_566934.html) about the issue (including stats from the CotN).

Good article. Having worked in the Nazarene Research Center before, I recall that there never really was a clergy shortage - numerically speaking. One report I saw showed that there were more *unassigned* than assigned ministers. That's district licensed ministers who have intention of entering full-time ministry, not just slackers who put their religion degree(s) on the shelf and sold their souls to filthy mammon.

If there is a shortage, it's a shortage of full-time positions in desirable locations.

[Shea Zellweger]

Good article. Having worked in the Nazarene Research Center before, I recall that there never really was a clergy shortage - numerically speaking. One report I saw showed that there were more *unassigned* than assigned ministers. That's district licensed ministers who have intention of entering full-time ministry, not just slackers who put their religion degree(s) on the shelf and sold their souls to filthy mammon.

If there is a shortage, it's a shortage of full-time positions in desirable locations.

I've heard/seen studies that have suggested there was a clergy "shortage" of anywhere from 1,000-10,000 ministers in the US. Now, ignoring the strong possibility that more than a few churches would do well to merge with others... I think the larger issue is that a lot of the apparently available churches are in denominations (or nondenominations) that a Nazarene clergy person would not be comfortable serving. Just because there are 100,000 clergymembers and 100,000 churches (a low estimate on both ends, I'm sure) does not mean that there are 100,000 perfect matches just waiting to be made, and it's not necessarily about full-time positions in desirable locations. I took a part-time position in an "undesirable" location rather than applying for several very well-paying churches in the area I wanted to be because I could not see eye to eye with those churches theologically, and I doubt I'm the only one who has made that kind of decision.

[Billy Cox]

I've heard/seen studies that have suggested there was a clergy "shortage" of anywhere from 1,000-10,000 ministers in the US. Now, ignoring the strong possibility that more than a few churches would do well to merge with others... I think the larger issue is that a lot of the apparently available churches are in denominations (or nondenominations) that a Nazarene clergy person would not be comfortable serving. Just because there are 100,000 clergymembers and 100,000 churches (a low estimate on both ends, I'm sure) does not mean that there are 100,000 perfect matches just waiting to be made, and it's not necessarily about full-time positions in desirable locations. I took a part-time position in an "undesirable" location rather than applying for several very well-paying churches in the area I wanted to be because I could not see eye to eye with those churches theologically, and I doubt I'm the only one who has made that kind of decision.

If, statistically speaking, the pastoral vacancies are mostly part-time and/or in less desirable locations, then it's fairly safe to say that there aren't enough 'Sheas' out there to skew the average in the other direction. I would even wager that there are unassigned Nazarene ministers who choose to be unassigned by default because they won't even consider a bivocational position or one that might entail driving on gravel roads.

[Shea Zellweger]

If, statistically speaking, the pastoral vacancies are mostly part-time and/or in less desirable locations, then it's fairly safe to say that there aren't enough 'Sheas' out there to skew the average in the other direction. I would even wager that there are unassigned Nazarene ministers who choose to be unassigned by default because they won't even consider a bivocational position or one that might entail driving on gravel roads.

I would agree with that assessment. Do you have the statistical evidence to support it? I didn't see anything in the article Jeremy posted that would suggest that, and when it comes to church stats I'm not incredibly well-versed. My stats are mostly "anecdotal" based on church job websites, and the strong majority of jobs on the 10 sites with which I am familiar are full-time positions.

[Billy Cox]

I would agree with that assessment. Do you have the statistical evidence to support it? I didn't see anything in the article Jeremy posted that would suggest that, and when it comes to church stats I'm not incredibly well-versed. My stats are mostly "anecdotal" based on church job websites, and the strong majority of jobs on the 10 sites with which I am familiar are full-time positions.

I was referring to stats or perhaps observations mentioned in the article.

[Shea Zellweger]

I was referring to stats or perhaps observations mentioned in the article.

"The vacancy rate is higher, however, among ethnic churches and small congregations.

Small congregations--those with 100 members or fewer --make up the majority of U.S. Protestant churches, and in those pulpits, there's still a shortage of ministers. A 2008 study in the PC(USA) found 71 percent of churches with fewer than 100 members had no permanent pastors."

Something like that?

I think there are other potential explanations for that. Please note I am not trying to excuse the entire clergy class on the grounds that we are "holy men," or somehow more upright than any others, I know that is not the case. However, I've seen at least one or two studies suggesting that pastoral longevity is a key in church growth, and lack of a pastor is a major factor in declining congregation size. So what I'm saying is, it could be equally true that those churches are small because they don't have a pastor, or do not have a good track record with sustained pastoral relationships. Also, churches less than 100 make up the majority of all churches in the US, so you'd expect them to be the hardest hit by an economic downturn. Now, if there are really 2 pastors for every church in the country, and 29% of small churches are without a pastor, then something's wrong, and I don't think it's just with the churches or just with the clergy.

[Billy Cox]

"The vacancy rate is higher, however, among ethnic churches and small congregations.

Small congregations--those with 100 members or fewer --make up the majority of U.S. Protestant churches, and in those pulpits, there's still a shortage of ministers. A 2008 study in the PC(USA) found 71 percent of churches with fewer than 100 members had no permanent pastors."

Something like that?

Yes, that's it.


I think there are other potential explanations for that. Please note I am not trying to excuse the entire clergy class on the grounds that we are "holy men," or somehow more upright than any others, I know that is not the case. However, I've seen at least one or two studies suggesting that pastoral longevity is a key in church growth, and lack of a pastor is a major factor in declining congregation size. So what I'm saying is, it could be equally true that those churches are small because they don't have a pastor, or do not have a good track record with sustained pastoral relationships. Also, churches less than 100 make up the majority of all churches in the US, so you'd expect them to be the hardest hit by an economic downturn. Now, if there are really 2 pastors for every church in the country, and 29% of small churches are without a pastor, then something's wrong, and I don't think it's just with the churches or just with the clergy.

This reminds me of reports I have heard about the difficulty in getting medical doctors to serve in rural areas. It would be too facile to say that doctors are greedy or that they have huge education loans to pay off.

Perhaps the ongoing trend toward agricultural consolidation and global markets is driving rural decline. The future of many rural areas looks bleak, so it's not hard to understand why most opportunity-sensitive people would shy away from 'putting down roots' in a place that might be ghost town in ten years or less.

[Tim Bourland]

I don't come close to being able to list all the reasons, etc. However, I think that this "season" in the life of the church may offer church leadership to usher in a renewed vitality to and appreciation for the effective bivocational pastor.

[Ryan Plott]

Good article. Having worked in the Nazarene Research Center before, I recall that there never really was a clergy shortage - numerically speaking. One report I saw showed that there were more *unassigned* than assigned ministers. That's district licensed ministers who have intention of entering full-time ministry, not just slackers who put their religion degree(s) on the shelf and sold their souls to filthy mammon.

If there is a shortage, it's a shortage of full-time positions in desirable locations.

Seeing my fellow classmates rack up huge debt attempting to try and serve the church and then having nowhere to go isn't really that great of a feeling. I get to see people that are eager to serve and have a heart for God watch the last 4-6 years of their lives spent preparing for ordained ministry mean nothing in the job market. Most of them have been forced to leave ministry and find other jobs to try and pay their bills. It's not just big churches that won't take them, it's small churches too. This means full-time, part-time, desirable, or un-desirable. These people love the church as much as anyone on this site. They're not selling their souls to mammon in the least, in fact they're actually really suffering because the vocation placed on them by God is being denied them by circumstances beyond their control. Your summary is pretty unfair to them and the situation they find themselves. You don't get to see their faces when they get rejected by a church or can't find a church that's hiring so please don't say they are "selling their souls to mammon." They have to make ends meet somehow.


Bi-vocationalism will be in with the decline of the institutional church, and with tax reforms looming for pastors as far as the whole housing expenses thing goes it may come quicker rather than sooner. If anything, this clergy surplus will force the laity to step up and retake the leadership of the church, and I don't see clergy re-joining the laity in profession a bad thing. After all, we're Protestants aren't we? This situation just calls us to be who we are. We believe in the priesthood of the believer and our piece of Christianity has run like that since its inception. In a post-Constantinian era for the church that will necessitate a greater theological understanding of itself, this surplus of clergy-turned-laity potentially has the ability to strengthen and re-define the church as it exists today. We need more lay leaders in the pew, and these people who have "left" ministry(by that I mean ordained) will be welcome to serve at any church I'm at while they draw their paycheck from somewhere else. They'll just have to settle for being the kind of minister that every Christian is called to be.

[Billy Cox]

These people love the church as much as anyone on this site. They're not selling their souls to mammon in the least, in fact they're actually really suffering because the vocation placed on them by God is being denied them by circumstances beyond their control. Your summary is pretty unfair to them and the situation they find themselves. You don't get to see their faces when they get rejected by a church or can't find a church that's hiring so please don't say they are "selling their souls to mammon." They have to make ends meet somehow.

I wasn't accusing anyone of selling their souls to mammon. On the contrary, I was caricaturing those who use that sort of language to heap shame on bivocational ministers.

Who says that vocation=paycheck? Sure, it's nice to get paid by a church and not have to divide one's professional energies, but if the way is shut to that, temporarily or even permanently, then one can either surrender to despair, or they can start thinking and praying about a less cookie-cutter way to fulfill their calling.


Bi-vocationalism will be in with the decline of the institutional church, and with tax reforms looming for pastors as far as the whole housing expenses thing goes it may come quicker rather than sooner. If anything, this clergy surplus will force the laity to step up and retake the leadership of the church, and I don't see clergy re-joining the laity in profession a bad thing. After all, we're Protestants aren't we? This situation just calls us to be who we are. We believe in the priesthood of the believer and our piece of Christianity has run like that since its inception. In a post-Constantinian era for the church that will necessitate a greater theological understanding of itself, this surplus of clergy-turned-laity potentially has the ability to strengthen and re-define the church as it exists today. We need more lay leaders in the pew, and these people who have "left" ministry(by that I mean ordained) will be welcome to serve at any church I'm at while they draw their paycheck from somewhere else. They'll just have to settle for being the kind of minister that every Christian is called to be.

I respect what you're saying here, and I agree that the denomination is clergy-centric to an unhealthy degree. However, I don't see how a clergy surplus could possibly result in an empowered laity. Unless an unassigned minister no longer professes a call to ministry and gives up any intention of re-entering professional ministry, that person does not have the mindset of a layperson, nor would I expect them to.

[David Graham]

Actually one of our new Ministers now in placement on our Presbytery was a Deacon in the United Methodist Church in the States before she came out here.

We have a quite a few vacancies west of the Great Dividing Range here on the east coast of Australia if anyone is interested.

Cheers,
Dave

[Tim Bourland]

Who says that vocation=paycheck? Sure, it's nice to get paid by a church and not have to divide one's professional energies, but if the way is shut to that, temporarily or even permanently, then one can either surrender to despair, or they can start thinking and praying about a less cookie-cutter way to fulfill their calling.

I recently left employment at GMC to take a management position in retail so that I could "embed" myself in the community in which I am trying to plant a church. As I've shared my passion in this regard with other ministers they've relfected a couple of different reactions: "your crazy" or "I wish I could do that"...both reactions based clearly on fear.

[Sarah Smith]

I clicked thanks above and have no idea why my screen is now showing Post: Sarah Smith. Whatever I goofed up I apologize!

I am one of those who have spent most of their life down that gravel, or caliche, road. On the one hand my heart genuinely goes out to those expecting to make a living as pastor and not able to live on what a gravel road church can offer.

On the other hand, those were the healthiest churches I have been privileged to attend. No pewsitters--everybody had to do whatever the Spirit had equipped them to do or the church was sunk. And pastors who also have to earn a living and have time commitments outside the service of the church can be first rate pastors.

I believe we have done a disservice to the cause of Christ with a two tier system of clergy and laity. I believe strongly a return to the priesthood of all believers would bless both groups as well as revitalize the church. It is too easy to toss a check in the plate and figure "ministry" is the pastor's job. And on the other hand, it is too easy for a pastor to assume laity is just lazy and undiscipled for not showing up at each an every service or ministry opportunity the pastor can dream up.

I've watched lay men and women take college level or above classes in order to be more educated or effective Sunday School teachers, lay church counsellors, music leaders, or bivo preachers without any thought of remuneration. I've watched clergy take oil field jobs in order to both support their families and reach oil field workers and their families. My hat is off to them all.

I think, with the availability of education on line, with modern communication media to equip people, and with the trend toward de-institutionalizing so many areas of life, church is going to have to change. Rather than one place in a community where people meet at specific times to be led by a specific "expert", we are all going to have to take more responsibility to "be" the church and to be that church's leaders.

And we need to face the fact that may, in some cases at least, be the death knell of the profession of clergy, and also bring an end to the need for the support of the seldom used building.

Those may not be bad trends. But again, maybe I just get too encouraged when I reread "Pagan Christianity" and walk around my neighborhood.

[Tim Bourland]

It's both doubly difficult and doubly rewarding. Many can't get past the first or refuse to try...

[Dave McClung]

"... Now, if there are really 2 pastors for every church in the country, and 29% of small churches are without a pastor, then something's wrong, and I don't think it's just with the churches or just with the clergy.

Your statement assumes that every church should have a full time pastor. That isn't a feasible assumption.

Many congregations of less than 100 members have a bi-vocational pastor. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Shea Zellweger]

Your statement assumes that every church should have a full time pastor. That isn't a feasible assumption.

Many congregations of less than 100 members have a bi-vocational pastor. I don't see anything wrong with that.



I didn't say anything about a full time pastor. I said "if... 29% of small churches are without a pastor." That pastor could most certainly be bi-vocational. However, if 29% of small churches have no pastor at all, then something is definitely wrong. Either those churches are looking for a full-time pastor on part-time pay, or pastors have unrealistic expectations of what a church can/should provide in the way of compensation, or... something else, but if that many churches are without pastoral leadership, then I think we should seriously be questioning the system as is.

[Ryan Plott]

I wasn't accusing anyone of selling their souls to mammon. On the contrary, I was caricaturing those who use that sort of language to heap shame on bivocational ministers.

Who says that vocation=paycheck? Sure, it's nice to get paid by a church and not have to divide one's professional energies, but if the way is shut to that, temporarily or even permanently, then one can either surrender to despair, or they can start thinking and praying about a less cookie-cutter way to fulfill their calling.



I respect what you're saying here, and I agree that the denomination is clergy-centric to an unhealthy degree. However, I don't see how a clergy surplus could possibly result in an empowered laity. Unless an unassigned minister no longer professes a call to ministry and gives up any intention of re-entering professional ministry, that person does not have the mindset of a layperson, nor would I expect them to.

Gotcha, I missed the caricature part.


I was talking about clergy-turned-laity. In that sense I think it would. The point I was trying to make is that mindset is needed in the pew. If they have to go somewhere else for a job, there' still a place for them in the church, just not a place getting a paycheck. I was not speaking of clergy-turned-laity as giving up the call, rather as clergy working in the church and getting paid elsewhere and in that way, working as the priesthood of the believer intends them to. I see it as the beginning of the process of getting the laity to own their responsibility for the church.