What binds pastors together?

[Hans Deventer]

At the District Advisory Board, we've been discussing this. I'm offering some thoughts. Please comment!


1. The deeply seated desire to follow Jesus



Here it all starts: Christ took hold of us (Phil 3:12). If we should recognize one another in anything, it is here.

2. The Agreed Statement of Belief



We're following Jesus, by our own choice, within the Church of the Nazarene. According to the General Superintendents, this short confession is the core of our identity at the dogmatic level. Contrary to the Articles of Faith, they haven't been changed for a long time. And this is the confession you confirm when becoming a member of the CotN.

3. The awareness that there are essentials and non-essentials, including one's own opinions.



Phineas Bresee already wrote in the very first Manual of the Church of the Nazarene in 1898: “It was thought that the Articles of Faith should be brief and simple, and only embrace those things which are essential to Salvation. That absolute unity of belief in reference to many things is not essential, and in reference to which there should be liberty. But as concerning things essential to Salvation, there must be unity and that those uniting with us should unhesitatingly believe”.
To be clear, that which isn't an essential in the church, can't be an essential for an individual Nazarene either.

4. Understanding that what we do or do not do, affects others. And being accountable to them.



Paul wrote that we've been called to be free (Gal 5:13), but he also makes clear we don't live for ourselves only. We've been given to one another. So when questioned, our answer can never be Cain's: "Am I my brother's keeper?"

5. A church polity



The Church of the Nazarene has a certain polity. As Dr. Bresee wrote in the same first Manual: “Christ had ordained no particular form of government for the Church”, the Church was free to organise itself, as long as that didn't go against the Scriptures. All the same, any organisation (which is nothing else than a group of people with a common goal) needs some kind of structure. It can change, but as it is, it will have to be accepted for otherwise, we'll have nothing but unlimited individualism, which has nothing to do with those who gave up their lives to follow Christ.

[Billy Cox]

At the District Advisory Board, we've been discussing this. I'm offering some thoughts. Please comment!


1. The deeply seated desire to follow Jesus

Here it all starts: Christ took hold of us (Phil 3:12). If we should recognize one another in anything, it is here.

2. The Agreed Statement of Belief

We're following Jesus, by our own choice, within the Church of the Nazarene. According to the General Superintendents, this short confession is the core of our identity at the dogmatic level. Contrary to the Articles of Faith, they haven't been changed for a long time. And this is the confession you confirm when becoming a member of the CotN.

3. The awareness that there are essentials and non-essentials, including one's own opinions.

Phineas Bresee already wrote in the very first Manual of the Church of the Nazarene in 1898: “It was thought that the Articles of Faith should be brief and simple, and only embrace those things which are essential to Salvation. That absolute unity of belief in reference to many things is not essential, and in reference to which there should be liberty. But as concerning things essential to Salvation, there must be unity and that those uniting with us should unhesitatingly believe”.
To be clear, that which isn't an essential in the church, can't be an essential for an individual Nazarene either.

4. Understanding that what we do or do not do, affects others. And being accountable to them.

Paul wrote that we've been called to be free (Gal 5:13), but he also makes clear we don't live for ourselves only. We've been given to one another. So when questioned, our answer can never be Cain's: "Am I my brother's keeper?"

5. A church polity

The Church of the Nazarene has a certain polity. As Dr. Bresee wrote in the same first Manual: “Christ had ordained no particular form of government for the Church”, the Church was free to organise itself, as long as that didn't go against the Scriptures. All the same, any organisation (which is nothing else than a group of people with a common goal) needs some kind of structure. It can change, but as it is, it will have to be accepted for otherwise, we'll have nothing but unlimited individualism, which has nothing to do with those who gave up their lives to follow Christ.


I think that this is a good response to the question of what binds the denomination together. Are pastors bound together by anything beyond this statement?

[John Reilly]

I would add ordination. Ordination is a sacramental experience of binding elders, to Christ, to the church, to each other, and to the whole world as our parish. Pastors experience together a unique sacramental grace that is nurturing and empowering. At every ordination service we all reaffirm our ordination.

[Eric Frey]

I would add ordination. Ordination is a sacramental experience of binding elders, to Christ, to the church, to each other, and to the whole world as our parish. Pastors experience together a unique sacramental grace that is nurturing and empowering. At every ordination service we all reaffirm our ordination.

All right John, you beat me to my response in the wedding thread and now in this one. The bind is ordination. I know we only subscribe to two sacraments (Baptism and Communion), and I also know I've said this before, but ordination is the only ritual we use that includes a prayer of consecration. The Manual rites for Baptism and Communion do not include any such prayer, but the ordination rite used in every CotN ordination service I've been to has included one. That is the bond. The unique work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the clergy to empower the clergy for their unique work in the Church that binds us all together.

[Hans Deventer]

Thank you guys, this is helpful!

[Craig Laughlin]

I think on an emotional level there is a shared History/religious sub culture/story. I have known several members of the clergy to change denominations even within our general family. (Free Methodist, COG - Anderson, CMA etc) These folks quickly adjust but seem to always miss the "insider connections" and understanding of history that they had in their former denomination. I have noticed a different kind of connection having moved back to my home district after living in Kansas City for nearly 2 decades.

- Edit - I have also noticed that when meeting new Nazarene clergy from other parts of the country or world it is not long before we start looking for people we both know. Seems to bind us together in a shared story. Missionaries are often a good common connection... Hadn't thought about how these itinerant folks may help to bind us together. - Great question Hans.

[Paul DeBaufer]

I think on an emotional level there is a shared History/religious sub culture/story. I have known several members of the clergy to change denominations even within our general family. (Free Methodist, COG - Anderson, CMA etc) These folks quickly adjust but seem to always miss the "insider connections" and understanding of history that they had in their former denomination. I have noticed a different kind of connection having moved back to my home district after living in Kansas City for nearly 2 decades.

- Edit - I have also noticed that when meeting new Nazarene clergy from other parts of the country or world it is not long before we start looking for people we both know. Seems to bind us together in a shared story. Missionaries are often a good common connection... Hadn't thought about how these itinerant folks may help to bind us together. - Great question Hans.

I see this. I am currently a member of the UMC, no longer licensed minister or even on that track at this time, but I do miss being a Nazarene--I kind of feel like an outsider now. So I think that Craig's point has validity.

[Kevin Rector]

Pastors also have the shared bond of being pastors. We go through things in the church that other people don't, we're often the only one in our church, we have a lot of expectations placed upon us (some rightfully so and many not). The amount of criticism we take from both within and outside the church is heavy (often unjustified).

There are many aspects to being a pastor that you can only really share with another pastor and anyone who hasn't been one just can't fully appreciate, and that is certainly a tie that binds.

Oh, and Jesus :)

[Hans Deventer]

Pastors also have the shared bond of being pastors. We go through things in the church that other people don't, we're often the only one in our church, we have a lot of expectations placed upon us (some rightfully so and many not). The amount of criticism we take from both within and outside the church is heavy (often unjustified).

There are many aspects to being a pastor that you can only really share with another pastor and anyone who hasn't been one just can't fully appreciate, and that is certainly a tie that binds.

Oh, and Jesus :)

Kevin, while you are absolutely right in theory, I can only hope you're right in practice.

[Billy Cox]

Kevin, while you are absolutely right in theory, I can only hope you're right in practice.

Misery loves company, but will take one only so far.

[Mike Schutz]

When I gather together with other pastors, whether it be of the same tribe (we have a monthly district gathering), or of the same geography (weekly ministerium prayer/support meetings), there are several things we share that bind us together.

1. Theological reflection - As Hans often demonstrates, other folks do theological reflection, but all pastors must. We have all read some of the same books, thought about the same pastoral theological issues, and struggle to make sense of life both for ourselves and our people. When I say, "I did a funeral for a teen who committed suicide," or "I met with a couple who is trying to save their marriage following an affair," or "I got a lot of flak this week for my exegesis of the gospel passage," pastors understand not only the emotional, but the theological, dynamics.

2. The stress - Pastors know what our role can do to our family. Pastors, more than anyone else, share our frustrations as we all recognize the differences between our personal expectations of success and the realities. Only another pastor understands when I share, "A member wanted me to visit her dad in the hospital, who used to attend our church, and when I showed up, there was the pastor of the current church he attends." Other pastors understand our frustration when members express expectations on our spouse that we know are not only unrealistic, but unfair.

3. Blessings - Only another pastor can fully understand our joy following a baptism. Only another pastor knows the blessing of leading the congregation as we come together to the table. Only another pastor understands the thrill when a little girl comes up to you after the service with a picture she drew just for you. Only another pastor knows the joy of hearing a recovering addict say that he has been sober for seven months, and our church has played a big part in that. Only another pastor knows how great it feels when a new member, smiling broadly, introduces you as "My Pastor."

[Hans Deventer]

Gents, may I remind you that the forum is about post traditional theology. I think fried food isn't all that theological, and if it is, it is very traditional.

I moved the joking posts to the Good Clean Fun Forum: http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?4758-What-binds-pastors-together

[Gina Stevenson]

I think on an emotional level there is a shared History/religious sub culture/story .................

- Edit - I have also noticed that when meeting new Nazarene(s) .................. from other parts of the country or world it is not long before we start looking for people we both know. Seems to bind us together in a shared story. Missionaries are often a good common connection .......................

Tho' not clergy just had to stick in here that this is not only a "clergy" activity ... happens on a lay level many times. ;) Know that "coming home" feeling, too ... after living for several years where there was only a C&MA church, I appreciated it very much, and it felt like "home." Yet, there were not folks known from "way back when" there ... so back at the Naz Church, there is now that element again.

[John Kennedy]

I have a good friend who is ex-Naz (ENC & NTS grad). He's been out of the church for years. When we get together for lunch we find that although we've only known each other for 10-12 years, we knew a lot of the same Nazarenes 40+ years ago. I've been out of the church 35+ years, but I'm reasonably sure if I sat down with many of you and started talking, we'd find common acquaintances.

[David Graham]

I must confess, that from my experience, the things that "bind" we minister's together is not so deep and noble as Mike has experienced on his District, but common goals, common fears and common difficulties.

Probably this results from our general isolation from one another and irregular times of Ministerial fellowship.
Sure, we get toghter three times a year to do "business", argue over resolutions and hear reports etc. but we only marginally "connect" during these periods. I remember one of the best Presbytery meetings I ever attended, was when the business had been completed and we had finished Tea, we all sat around together and played cards. It was great to see how my fellow clergy dropped their defences and revealed their true selves by simply having fun.

The thing I find most frustrating about most clergy, is their inability to share their own experiences; e.g. fears, hopes, joys, sins and victories with other fellow clergy. I've even tried to initiate this process by "sharing first", only to find that most of the others just clam up. In my present denomination there are a couple of people who are as open as I am, but when I was with the Nazarenes, no-one openned up. I confess that I was afraid to do so myself lest I be later given an invitation to attend a special session of the DAB to discuss my future Pastoral options. (I'd seen some who had gotten this invitation) At least I don't need to worry about such things within the UCA.

So what is it that makes ministers loathe to open up ? Is it "pride", "fear", a "low self image" or something else?

Any clues???

[Mike Schutz]

So what is it that makes ministers loathe to open up ? Is it "pride", "fear", a "low self image" or something else?

Any clues???

We talk about this often in our community ministerium - why do we get along so well, care about each other so deeply, and trust each other, even though we are of different denominations and theological perspectives? We have found that it is because we spend most of our time together (monthly gatherings plus, for several of us, weekly meetings), sharing our stories. Each month a different person shares their journey of faith in detail - and everyone shares prayer burdens about their families.

I remember, after several years together, we got together to tour one of our area churches that had built a new building. Following the tour, I decided that we knew each other well enough that I shared my feelings. "I am happy for you, that you have this beautiful new facility. But is it okay to share that I am really feeling a bit jealous right now?" Several others responded that they were feeling the same thing - and we gathered together for prayer. We knew that our relationship had reached a new level of openness if we could be that honest with one another.

[Eric Vail]

Sorry I have not read everything all that closely. Hans, it seems that the origins of the word "pastor" gets a bit at the shepherding character of the pastoral calling. In all the many topics I heard discussed by pastors around a table recently, there was a common concern (divinely kindled/graced, I believe) in the statments being made--regardless of whether we agreed or disagreed. We desired to see the people of God listening to the voice of the Good Shepherd, going through Christ into the fold, and going through Christ into abundant life. (Can you tell I've been preparing a sermon on Jn 10:1-21 this week?)

Some of what you have listed sounds more universally true of any believer, or Nazarene believer more specifically. I see the unifying bond--or commonality--among pastors as the particular gifting/grace (resulting in a particular pastoral passion) that drives us toward a specific function in the Body. Perhaps, by analogy, every believer is born again/anew as an embrionic stem cell that is then cultivated by the Spirit into a particular type of tissue. What is binding among pastors is that they are formed into pastoral tissue. This is why the ordination process is more of a process of discerning the presence of certain gifts/graces (along with suitable preparation) for the shepherding function within the church. We are discerning 'what kind of cell is it?'

[Hans Deventer]

So what is it that makes ministers loathe to open up ? Is it "pride", "fear", a "low self image" or something else?

Any clues???

I think it is the fear that the word will get out and the congregation can't really deal with a human being as pastor.

[Jon Bemis]

I think it is the fear that the word will get out and the congregation can't really deal with a human being as pastor.

No worries with my congregation - I regularly prove to them I am all too human.

[Eric Vail]

Hans, I've been thinking about your list of five a bit longer. I hear a heavy dose of language about beliefs, agreements, understandings, and awarenesses. Are you concerned that the balance in your list tips toward the cognitive?

[Hans Deventer]

Hans, I've been thinking about your list of five a bit longer. I hear a heavy dose of language about beliefs, agreements, understandings, and awarenesses. Are you concerned that the balance in your list tips toward the cognitive?

As long as #1 remains #1, not really.

[Billy Cox]

I think it is the fear that the word will get out and the congregation can't really deal with a human being as pastor.

I think that the lay-clergy dualism is a poison upon the Kingdom. I would be a bit sad to see you buy into that system, Hans, but it's your journey and it may lie along a different path.

[Hans Deventer]

I think that the lay-clergy dualism is a poison upon the Kingdom. I would be a bit sad to see you buy into that system, Hans, but it's your journey and it may lie along a different path.

Billy, I'm already buying into the system by being a Nazarene. Unfortunately, the entire structure of the church is build on this distinction. But it doesn't change whether I'm a lay person who preaches, or an ordained minister with a regular job. I'm still a hybrid, and as such, I don't fit anywhere. Which is just as well. I like exceptions to rules that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Having said all this, I really do believe in God's call and in the church's responsibility to set those so called apart for ministry. I just don't believe we should build our entire church polity on that fact. We have so much more that unites us than that sets us apart.