Judy Hamilton
6th May 2006, 04:29 PM (16:29)
Marty is the Jewish dodctor who served in Vietnam
Stan is the Jewish military retired Major General
I find their discussion interesting..
Marty, I totally agree with your analysis and your well stated conclusion in the last sentence.
Regretfully, State and DoD have usually been in a competitive rather than cooperative mode. Our present "R&Rs," are an odd couple. Rice is by far the better half and a team player. I get the impression (probably erroneous) that Rumsfeld's idea of teamwork is play ball my way or I'll shove the bat up your rear end. He's brilliant but not nearly as brilliant as he thinks he is. I think he's a throwback to McNamara but at least has charisma.
If he had listened to Powell and Shinseki, we wouldn't be bogged down in Iraq. They learned their lessons from Vietnam that a graduated response is stalemate. Go in with overwhelming force and get the job done quickly and COMPLETELY, achieve the overall objective and get the .... out.
The American public has a short memory and lacks the intestinal fortitude to see a long, but essential, mop up done. They're more worried about the price of gas than a repeat of 9/11. They think if we ignore the Islamic fundamentalist terrorists that they'll go away. and be assured. They will not!!
We never should have disbanded the Iraqi army (except for their senior officers) and we should have co-opted their troops for interim peace keeping, as we did some of the Japanese troops immediately following the end of WW II. We never should have negligently left stockpiles of weapons virtually unguarded to be easily stolen and used against us. We, too, were victims of our own hubris and arrogance.
America is the one hope for liberty in this selfish world. Whether we like it or not, we have the duty and obligation to bear the burden of that responsibility and privilege. [Pax Americanus?]
As we old fighter pilots would say,
Check Six. Octo-Stan,
-----Original Message-----
From: Superquack
Dear Stan:
Thank you for sharing with us your views about Rumsfeld. Your professional and thoughtful views are valuable to all of us.
As a lay person I have made a few observations that I would invite you to comment?
1. I have learned that when you accidentally knock down the hive of some African Bees, it is best not to contemplate what you did wrong to encounter the hive --- what needs to be answered is this question...how you could avoid hitting a hive the next time.
2. There is the Head of State in Iran who would like to be the Head of State of a combined new country/Iraq and Iran. He already fuels the war by supplying roadside explosive devices, men and ammunition. His rhetoric is similar to Sudam in attempting to rally the support of the radicals that he can defeat the Giant/USA. If he exaggerates his ability to produce nuclear weapons, perhaps we will attack? He then can secure the support of the radicals. If we don't attack, he will continue to provoke us and claim that we are too weak or he is too strong for us to stop him.
3. The Hammas is doing the same thing. They now have no money and are starting to fire rockets into Israel. They need for someone to react so they can rally someone to send them money. Without money they can't pay their troops or run a government. If Israel does retaliate, they may then get money. If Israel doesn't retaliate, they will continue to provoke and claim that they have defeated the Giant/Israel.
4. Democracy is a progression of moving from a primitive culture to one of self-rule and government. Giving a gift of democracy to a primitive culture is like giving a set of car keys to a child and then inviting them to drive.
The above observations may be relevant in that the Killer Bees that we have agitated will need to be stopped or they may just kill us. It is clear that professionals must exterminate them. My humble view is that we have two group of competent professionals: our Military and our State Department. Unfortunately neither are able to operate without political and partisan interference. Generals are not appointed because of their political or voting records. State Department diplomats work all of their career to advance to the level of an Ambassador. Some of the frustration of both groups occur when the politicians attempt to place a "friend" as an Ambassador or as Secretary of Defense.
We are in a crisis in defending Israel and the USA. Perhaps we should have learned a lesson from Jimmy Carter, let the Military run military operations?
What do you think?
Marty
Stan is the Jewish military retired Major General
I find their discussion interesting..
Marty, I totally agree with your analysis and your well stated conclusion in the last sentence.
Regretfully, State and DoD have usually been in a competitive rather than cooperative mode. Our present "R&Rs," are an odd couple. Rice is by far the better half and a team player. I get the impression (probably erroneous) that Rumsfeld's idea of teamwork is play ball my way or I'll shove the bat up your rear end. He's brilliant but not nearly as brilliant as he thinks he is. I think he's a throwback to McNamara but at least has charisma.
If he had listened to Powell and Shinseki, we wouldn't be bogged down in Iraq. They learned their lessons from Vietnam that a graduated response is stalemate. Go in with overwhelming force and get the job done quickly and COMPLETELY, achieve the overall objective and get the .... out.
The American public has a short memory and lacks the intestinal fortitude to see a long, but essential, mop up done. They're more worried about the price of gas than a repeat of 9/11. They think if we ignore the Islamic fundamentalist terrorists that they'll go away. and be assured. They will not!!
We never should have disbanded the Iraqi army (except for their senior officers) and we should have co-opted their troops for interim peace keeping, as we did some of the Japanese troops immediately following the end of WW II. We never should have negligently left stockpiles of weapons virtually unguarded to be easily stolen and used against us. We, too, were victims of our own hubris and arrogance.
America is the one hope for liberty in this selfish world. Whether we like it or not, we have the duty and obligation to bear the burden of that responsibility and privilege. [Pax Americanus?]
As we old fighter pilots would say,
Check Six. Octo-Stan,
-----Original Message-----
From: Superquack
Dear Stan:
Thank you for sharing with us your views about Rumsfeld. Your professional and thoughtful views are valuable to all of us.
As a lay person I have made a few observations that I would invite you to comment?
1. I have learned that when you accidentally knock down the hive of some African Bees, it is best not to contemplate what you did wrong to encounter the hive --- what needs to be answered is this question...how you could avoid hitting a hive the next time.
2. There is the Head of State in Iran who would like to be the Head of State of a combined new country/Iraq and Iran. He already fuels the war by supplying roadside explosive devices, men and ammunition. His rhetoric is similar to Sudam in attempting to rally the support of the radicals that he can defeat the Giant/USA. If he exaggerates his ability to produce nuclear weapons, perhaps we will attack? He then can secure the support of the radicals. If we don't attack, he will continue to provoke us and claim that we are too weak or he is too strong for us to stop him.
3. The Hammas is doing the same thing. They now have no money and are starting to fire rockets into Israel. They need for someone to react so they can rally someone to send them money. Without money they can't pay their troops or run a government. If Israel does retaliate, they may then get money. If Israel doesn't retaliate, they will continue to provoke and claim that they have defeated the Giant/Israel.
4. Democracy is a progression of moving from a primitive culture to one of self-rule and government. Giving a gift of democracy to a primitive culture is like giving a set of car keys to a child and then inviting them to drive.
The above observations may be relevant in that the Killer Bees that we have agitated will need to be stopped or they may just kill us. It is clear that professionals must exterminate them. My humble view is that we have two group of competent professionals: our Military and our State Department. Unfortunately neither are able to operate without political and partisan interference. Generals are not appointed because of their political or voting records. State Department diplomats work all of their career to advance to the level of an Ambassador. Some of the frustration of both groups occur when the politicians attempt to place a "friend" as an Ambassador or as Secretary of Defense.
We are in a crisis in defending Israel and the USA. Perhaps we should have learned a lesson from Jimmy Carter, let the Military run military operations?
What do you think?
Marty