Resurrection question

[Todd Erickson]

I was tracking down a resource today, and found a doctrinal statement, one of whose main points was:

"affirms the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; those who are saved unto the resurrection of life, and those who are lost unto the resurrection of damnation; "

Where in the bible do we find any statement of resurrection for those who do not abide in Christ? This seems like a logical "if/then" statement, rather than anything I've ever found directly stated. Thoughts?

[Benjamin Burch]

John 5:25-29

‘Very truly, I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; and he has given him authority to execute judgement, because he is the Son of Man. Do not be astonished at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."



Daniel 12:1-2

"At that time Michael, the great prince, the protector of your people, shall arise. There shall be a time of anguish, such as has never occurred since nations first came into existence. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

[Dennis Bratcher]

I was tracking down a resource today, and found a doctrinal statement, one of whose main points was:

"affirms the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; those who are saved unto the resurrection of life, and those who are lost unto the resurrection of damnation; "

Where in the bible do we find any statement of resurrection for those who do not abide in Christ? This seems like a logical "if/then" statement, rather than anything I've ever found directly stated. Thoughts?

Some use Daniel 12:2:


12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Also, some use the judgment passage in Matthew 25 that refers to both sheep and goats being judged. Some also point to passages like Acts 4:1 and 17:29 that refer generally to resurrection of the dead without excluding the wicked.


4:1 While Peter and John were speaking to the people, the priests, the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees came to them, 4:2 much annoyed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming that in Jesus there is the resurrection of the dead.

Also, Paul is his defense before Tertullus is quoted as saying,


Acts 24:15 I have a hope in God--a hope that they themselves also accept--that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

There are others as well.

However, in John's Gospel, the resurrection seems to be seen as only for the righteous, as does 1 Thessalonians 4.


John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God's wrath.

John 6:40 This is indeed the will of my Father, that all who see the Son and believe in him may have eternal life; and I will raise them up on the last day."

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me. 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish.

Also, in other places, resurrection seems to be connected only with those in Christ (1 Cor 15:21, 1 Peter 1:3-5, etc.)


1 Cor 15:21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; 15:22 for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 15:24 Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power.

All that is to say that Scripture takes both positions. In most places where the wicked are raised it is in a context of judgment and accountability.

Grace and Peace,

Dennis B.

[Benjamin Burch]

However, in John's Gospel, the resurrection seems to be seen as only for the righteous,

What about Joh 5:25-9 (quoted above in my previous post), which seems to be closest to the exact wording of this doctrinal statement?

[Dennis Bratcher]

What about Joh 5:25-9 (quoted above in my previous post), which seems to be closest to the exact wording of this doctrinal statement?

I think this demonstrates what I said, that Scripture (and the early Church) took both positions. That is, they had no definitive position, only that they believed that we would all be accountable to God and that faith in Jesus/God would lead to eternal life, expressed as resurrection (Jesus as the "first fruits of those who have died," 1 Cor 15:20).

I think we can believe in God's "judgment" of sinners without needing to embrace either dual resurrection or eternal literal hell fire and torment (although denying either of those is not necessary either!).

The bottom line is, since the biblical evidence points both ways, we do not know. Another of those things that we will leave in God's hands.

Grace and Peace,

Dennis B.

[Benjamin Burch]

I think this demonstrates what I said, that Scripture (and the early Church) took both positions. That is, they had no definitive position, only that they believed that we would all be accountable to God and that faith in Jesus/God would lead to eternal life, expressed as resurrection (Jesus as the "first fruits of those who have died," 1 Cor 15:20).

I think we can believe in God's "judgment" of sinners without needing to embrace either dual resurrection or eternal literal hell fire and torment (although denying either of those is not necessary either!).

The bottom line is, since the biblical evidence points both ways, we do not know. Another of those things that we will leave in God's hands.

Grace and Peace,

Dennis B.

I have no problem agreeing with all of that. :)

[Hans Deventer]

I think this demonstrates what I said, that Scripture (and the early Church) took both positions. That is, they had no definitive position, only that they believed that we would all be accountable to God and that faith in Jesus/God would lead to eternal life, expressed as resurrection (Jesus as the "first fruits of those who have died," 1 Cor 15:20).

Perhaps I'm not so clear on this, but I don't see the problem. The resurrection alone does not imply eternal life as meant in the Scriptures (which is a gift for believers anyway), because we'll all stand before God one day. The "second death" would be after that event, as I understand it.

[Dennis Bratcher]

Perhaps I'm not so clear on this, but I don't see the problem. The resurrection alone does not imply eternal life as meant in the Scriptures (which is a gift for believers anyway), because we'll all stand before God one day. The "second death" would be after that event, as I understand it.

Yes, that is entirely possible.

Note that the idea of a "second death" only occurs in the book of Revelation. I'm not sure how far we can push that book to declare ultimate reality given its highly schematized and metaphorical language. That means that we cannot really add verses from Revelation to the Gospels or Paul to get a total ontological picture.

I have no real issue with anyone who has a coherent picture of it all and is comfortable with it. I just know that I don't, and am quite comfortable with that as well.

Grace and Peace,

Dennis B.

[Hans Deventer]

Yes, that is entirely possible.

Note that the idea of a "second death" only occurs in the book of Revelation. I'm not sure how far we can push that book to declare ultimate reality given its highly schematized and metaphorical language. That means that we cannot really add verses from Revelation to the Gospels or Paul to get a total ontological picture.

Well, if the images align with other ideas found in the Scriptures, like the ultimate judgement, I don't have much of a problem with it. But like you, I would be hesitant to build anything on an image from Revelation alone.


I have no real issue with anyone who has a coherent picture of it all and is comfortable with it. I just know that I don't, and am quite comfortable with that as well.


Don't worry Dennis, the days that I used to fight over theories of eschatology have since long fallen into oblivion. God is graciously (and with much patience) working on cooling my head, and warming my heart.

[Jim Chabot]

Don't worry Dennis, the days that I used to fight over theories of eschatology have since long fallen into oblivion. God is graciously (and with much patience) working on cooling my head, and warming my heart.

Wow, I could have written that myself! I also spent many years studying eschatology from every angle imaginable. I have been thrilled to find that it is relatively unimportant. How will it all unfold we ask, and the still small voice says simply "Love one another."

[Ryan Scott]

Don't worry Dennis, the days that I used to fight over theories of eschatology have since long fallen into oblivion. God is graciously (and with much patience) working on cooling my head, and warming my heart.

That's a good thing. Especially because you're wrong.

[Hans Deventer]

That's a good thing. Especially because you're wrong.

Oh, I'm sure I'm wrong in many things. But then again, I'm not saved by being right anyway :smilies0041:

[John Kennedy]

Well, if the images align with other ideas found in the Scriptures, like the ultimate judgement, I don't have much of a problem with it. But like you, I would be hesitant to build anything on an image from Revelation alone.



Don't worry Dennis, the days that I used to fight over theories of eschatology have since long fallen into oblivion. God is graciously (and with much patience) working on cooling my head, and warming my heart.

Hans -
You're on good ground, historically, with at least one Naz GS. About 70 years ago my father was ordained by JB Chapman. Chapman, having become a Nazarene via the Holiness Church of Christ (which had pretty solid pre-millenial views) used to admonish the young ordinands to leave the 2nd coming preaching/predictions to the older ministers so they wouldn't be around to be embarrassed when things didn't turn out as predicted.

The whole eschatology business has, IMO, the singular distinction of having contributed more heat and less light than just about any other theological topic.

[Rich Schmidt]

All that is to say that Scripture takes both positions. In most places where the wicked are raised it is in a context of judgment and accountability.

Which would be comforting to someone who suffers at the hands of wicked people who flourish in this life and die in their luxury. It's important to know that they, too, will have to stand before God one day to answer for their many sins.

"It is mine to avenge. I will repay," says the Lord. Those on the underside of injustice need to know that God will make good on this promise.