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View Full Version : Yunus, Muhammad - Creating a World Without Poverty: Social Business and the Future of Capitalism



Ryan Plott
June 20th, 2011, 05:14 PM
Muhummad Yunus is probably best known for starting the practice of micro-lending in Bangladesh with the Grameen Bank. This current book project entails his recent partnership with what Americans know as Dannon which makes yogurt and bottled water. Details of their partnership can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grameen_Danone).

This book is divided into three sections, (1) The Promise of Social Business, (2) The Grameen Experiment, and (3) A World Without Poverty. It's roughly 250 pages long and a very easy read. I have no education or background in business and I found it to be very understandable and concise. Because of that I really don't have the tools to critique the model Yunus is laying out very thoughtfully, but next on my reading list is to re-read a book that does. For the purposes of the review, I'll only summarize and review sections (1) and (3).

If you're interested in (2) then this book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1586481983/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1891620118&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1T5PKWKYVP0SQMM07JFP) lays the story out in much more detail than the 5 chapters in this book.

Section 1 begins with talking about the rise of capitalism and the prosperity it has brought, along with some of its consequences and how they prompted the Millennium Goals by the UN to reduce poverty in half by the year 2015. Yunus' philosophy of why free markets fail so many people is that they are not designed to help. They may actually exacerbate poverty, disease, pollution, and crime instead of meeting a social objective. Government, non-profits, and multilateral institutions are all incapable of meeting this social objectives or have severe shortcomings which prevent them from being able to meet these goals.

A social business...

1. is not set up to achieve profit but to pursue social goals. The criterion it should be evaluated by is how well it creates social benefits for those whose lives it touches. Essentially, a cause-driven business. One example of a cause-driven business that springs to mind is the Financial Peace University started by Dave Ramsey.
2. employs workers, creates goods or services, and provides these to customers for a fair price consistent with its objective.
3. may earn a profit, but the investors who support it do not take any profits out of the company except recouping an amount equivalent to their original investment over a period of time.
4. is not a charity. It has to recover its full costs while achieving its social objective. This is done by chargin a price or fee for services or products it makes. If you can't cover costs you're not a social business. The idea is to be able to repeatedly invest the same 20,000 dollars repeatedly in a social business rather than donating 20,000 to a charity that will never come back and the funds used only one time for one goal.
5. could be defined as a non-loss, non-dividend company. Rather than giving profit to investors, the profit is invested back into the business. These profits are passed on to beneficiaries in such forms as lower costs, better service, greater accessibility. Profit needs to be made to pay back investors and support the pursuit of a long-term social goal.
6. needs to have a long term road map. This helps it move into new areas , offer a wider range or higher quality of goods, increase efficiency, etc.
7. Repayment of investors money would be specified by the business and investor collaboratively. It could be a 5, 10, or 20 year period.
8. will operate in the same marketplace as PMB's (profit-maximizing businesses) and against other social businesses. Again, product, social benefit, and service quality will be determining factor of evaluation, not profit.

This is a pretty rough draft of (1). Took me a bit longer than I thought and there's homework still to be done. I'll post on (3) Wednesday.

Dave McClung
June 21st, 2011, 04:12 PM
I find it interesting that you would pick Financial Peace University as the one example of a cause driven organization. It is a key part of the Dave Ramsey organization and has made Dave Ramsey a very wealthy individual.

I am a Dave Ramsey fan, so my comments shouldn't be viewed as being critical of him or his organization. I merely find it intersting that the one organization mentioned as an example of the kind of compay Yunus is suggesting, doesn't fit his model.

The thing that separates Financial Peace University from many other corporations is the fact that ownership and management are the same. An organization which is owned by the executives can be "cause driven" because the goals of the managers and the shareholders are the same.

The problem with Yunus' model is that it anticipates that the interest of those who provide the capital will somehow be subordinate to the "cause." He does not explain, and can not provide an example of such an organization. The closest that exists is Kiva.Org. Kiva uses charitable donations to cover its overhead expense and gets many investors to provide capital as loans. The interest of all parties are clearly defined and none of those providing capital can make a profit. Kiva doesn't fit the Yunus mold because it is a charity.

I think the two models that have a chance to accomplish a "cause driven" organization are the privately held corporation (like Financial Peace University) or the charity (like Kiva.Org). I have not seen an organization with outside investors, unrelated to the chief executive that can be "cause driven." Inevitably the interests of those who provide the funding will come ahead of the "cause."

Benjamin Burch
June 21st, 2011, 04:15 PM
I find it interesting that you would pick Financial Peace University as the one example of a cause driven organization. It is a key part of the Dave Ramsey organization and has made Dave Ramsey a very wealthy individual.

I am a Dave Ramsey fan, so my comments shouldn't be viewed as being critical of him or his organization. I merely find it intersting that the one organization mentioned as an example of the kind of compay Yunus is suggesting, doesn't fit his model.

The thing that separates Financial Peace University from many other corporations is the fact that ownership and management are the same. An organization which is owned by the executives can be "cause driven" because the goals of the managers and the shareholders are the same.

The problem with Yunus' model is that it anticipates that the interest of those who provide the capital will somehow be subordinate to the "cause." He does not explain, and can not provide an example of such an organization. The closest that exists in Kiva.Org. Kiva uses charitable donations to cover its overhead expense and gets many investors to provide capital as loans. The interest of all parties are clearly defined and none of those providing capital can make a profit. Kiva doesn't fit the Yunus mold because it is a charity.

I think the two models that have a chance to accomplish a "cause driven" organization are the privately held corporation (like Financial Peace University) or the charity (like Kiva.Org). I have not seen an organization with outside investors, unrelated to the chief executive that can be "cause driven." Inevitably the interests of those who provide the funding will come ahead of the "cause."

Unless those who invest do so because they believe in the "cause", and therefore their intests are the "cause"?

Dave McClung
June 21st, 2011, 04:30 PM
Unless those who invest do so because they believe in the "cause", and therefore their intests are the "cause"?

The seven principles that define a "Yunus social business" are:

Business objective will be to overcome poverty, or one or more problems (such as education, health, technology access, and environment) which threaten people and society; not profit maximization

Financial and economic sustainability

Investors get back their investment amount only. No dividend is given beyond investment money

When investment amount is paid back, company profit stays with the company for expansion and improvement

Environmentally conscious

Workforce gets market wage with better working conditions

…do it with joy

I am merely making an observation that if such a business exists, I am not aware of it. The example given, Financial Peace University, doesn't meet the criteria because the investor, Dave Ramsey, has gotten back a lot more than he has invested. While I am not sure how the cash flows - whether as dividends, salary of otherwise, Dave Ramsey has financially benefited from owning the business.

Kiva.Org does not fit the model because it isn't financially sustainable without charitable contributions -- lots of them.

If there is an example where the model has been applied successfully, I am unaware of it. Yes, I am aware of Grameen Danone. It is the business in Bangledesh that is often cited as the prime example of a social business. The latest reports show that Grameen Danone has been unable to meet the second principle, "financially and economically sustainable." It has incurred operating losses and is making significant changes to its business approach to attempt to save the business. It will take more time to know if it can survive. Their problems are fairly simple to understand:
1. They couldn't produce the yogart as cheaply as they estimated.
2. When they priced the youart at a level that would allow them to recover their acutal costs, people wouldn't buy it.
3. They don't have the management skills necessary to match their production capabilities with their marketing capabilities.

Ryan Plott
July 27th, 2011, 08:01 AM
I find it interesting that you would pick Financial Peace University as the one example of a cause driven organization. It is a key part of the Dave Ramsey organization and has made Dave Ramsey a very wealthy individual.

I am a Dave Ramsey fan, so my comments shouldn't be viewed as being critical of him or his organization. I merely find it intersting that the one organization mentioned as an example of the kind of compay Yunus is suggesting, doesn't fit his model.

The thing that separates Financial Peace University from many other corporations is the fact that ownership and management are the same. An organization which is owned by the executives can be "cause driven" because the goals of the managers and the shareholders are the same.

The problem with Yunus' model is that it anticipates that the interest of those who provide the capital will somehow be subordinate to the "cause." He does not explain, and can not provide an example of such an organization. The closest that exists is Kiva.Org. Kiva uses charitable donations to cover its overhead expense and gets many investors to provide capital as loans. The interest of all parties are clearly defined and none of those providing capital can make a profit. Kiva doesn't fit the Yunus mold because it is a charity.

I think the two models that have a chance to accomplish a "cause driven" organization are the privately held corporation (like Financial Peace University) or the charity (like Kiva.Org). I have not seen an organization with outside investors, unrelated to the chief executive that can be "cause driven." Inevitably the interests of those who provide the funding will come ahead of the "cause."

It was my illustration, not Yunus'. Apologies, the mistake is mine.

Dave McClung
July 27th, 2011, 07:46 PM
It was my illustration, not Yunus'. Apologies, the mistake is mine.

Hank, can you identify one organization that fulfills the Yunus model? I can't.

Ryan Plott
August 8th, 2011, 11:58 AM
Hank, can you identify one organization that fulfills the Yunus model? I can't.


Nope, thanks for the critique Dave. I appreciate it.