District Apportionments

[Ken Osso]

I'm curious...would you mind sharing what percentage of your local church's income goes toward district apportionments (and which district you are a part of)?

Our district apportionment for the past year was well over 10% of our income. The new global funding plan has forced our district to make some changes, and our district apportionments are now a flat 9% of our income for each local church for the coming year. I've always imagined that our district burden is well above average, but I would love to gain a better perspective by hearing from you.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

New England 5.5% x the base for our District Fund and 2.5% x WEF apportionment for the District NMI.

Basically, our total District percentage is 5.6375%

[Bud Pugh]

Yes, Ken, I think it is clear that smaller districts with smaller churches will pay a larger percentage of their income to the District apportionment. I've been told of one district where every church was pegged at the maximum 20% of income in apportionments under the old funding plan. It is likely that under the new plan they will be paying close to 10% for their district apportionment.

On the Oregon Pacific District the goal is 3%- inclusive of District auxilliaries.

[Kevin Rector]

Just got the email today that North Arkansas has set it at 6% of income less missions giving. I think the goal is to get to 5.5% but the finance committee figured it'd be easier to decrease it than increase it.

[Craig Laughlin]

WAPAC is 3% inclusive

[Doug Kitchen]

upstate NY is about 6% + dues for the auxilary (about 0.3% each for SSDM, NYI, NMI)

Doug

[Jon Twitchell]

Maine District is 6.0% of Adjusted Income, plus an additional 1.2% of Adjusted Income for the District auxiliaries.

[Rich Schmidt]

Northwest Indiana is 5% of adjusted income (Total Contributions - WEF giving = adjusted income, right?) and includes all auxiliaries. I don't remember what it was under the old plan.

[Rich Schmidt]

I'm curious...would you mind sharing what percentage of your local church's income goes toward district apportionments (and which district you are a part of)?

Our district apportionment for the past year was well over 10% of our income. The new global funding plan has forced our district to make some changes, and our district apportionments are now a flat 9% of our income for each local church for the coming year. I've always imagined that our district burden is well above average, but I would love to gain a better perspective by hearing from you.

And what district are you on, Ken?

[Marsha Lynn]

SW Indiana does 13.5% of income (with some exclusions) for combined district, education, & P&B budgets. The district part figures out to 5.5%. May is the last month of our FY and we will hit the 20% cap so the final percentage will be a little lower than 5.5% to the district.

[Shea Zellweger]

just left alabama South, but I attended Assembly before we left, and our new budget formula was being called the "16% fair share plan," so I'm guessing it was somewhere close to 16%...

[Rich Schmidt]

SW Indiana does 13.5% of income (with some exclusions) for combined district, education, & P&B budgets. The district part figures out to 5.5%. May is the last month of our FY and we will hit the 20% cap so the final percentage will be a little lower than 5.5% to the district.

Huh. Do you really think of it as 13.5% for those three things combined? WEF & then all the rest? I think of it as 10% for all the stuff "out there" and 5% for the stuff closer to home.

Or are you talking about the old system, basing it on past years' income?

[Marsha Lynn]

Huh. Do you really think of it as 13.5% for those three things combined? WEF & then all the rest?

Uhmm... not sure what you're asking, Rich. I do think of it as 13.5% because that is how it is calculated. We fill out a form and calculate 13.5% of our adjusted income for the month just ended, send that amount to the district, and it is then distributed to the various "out there" destinations. Only WEF is handled separately.

[Rich Schmidt]

Uhmm... not sure what you're asking, Rich. I do think of it as 13.5% because that is how it is calculated. We fill out a form and calculate 13.5% of our adjusted income for the month just ended, send that amount to the district, and it is then distributed to the various "out there" destinations. Only WEF is handled separately.

I may not have asked the question well, but you answered it perfectly. :) Thanks.

[David Graham]

Our Presbytery budget is based upon 10% of the local church's income, but in practice it is the agreed amount that the particular congregation or Parish can afford to pay.

Cheers,
Dave

[Jon Twitchell]

Northwest Indiana is 5% of adjusted income (Total Contributions - WEF giving = adjusted income, right?) and includes all auxiliaries. I don't remember what it was under the old plan.

Rich,

I hadn't heard the term "Adjusted Income" until yesterday when the chair of our finance committee used it. But that's precisely how he used it, and it's what I intended above. He even started abbreviating it in his powerpoint-- 5.5% AI, 2.0% AI, 2.5% AI, 6.0% AI, etc.

I'd be curious to learn how many districts end up assessing an amount over 5.5% (that being the WEF number). Ultimately, I suspect that this new funding formula will result in more district mergers, since it will make the local church more aware of the amount of money spent at the district level, and pastors will compare with neighboring districts.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

To be clear...y'all's districts adjusted income (or base, as we are calling it) goes beyond Total - WEF giving, right? We arrive at the same base for our district apportionment as we do for the WEF apportionment (by subtracting rental income, other 10% giving, etc.).

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I think the "Funding the Mission" approach is being rolled out as each district assembly takes place. The only decision made by the district is what percentage of income (less monies given to WEF and 10% Specials) goes to the district.

Here's the website that's all about it: http://www.fundingthemission.org

You can even sign up using your Nazarene account, plug in your giving, and it'll tell you want to send to where.

So, WEF, EDU, P&B add up to 10% and the district then adds it's need, on STX it's 6% more.

Each month it's "how much came in" less "that given for WEF and 10%" times 16%.

For our leaders the hardest issue is "money in-money out." Some moneys are given as an offering to a special singer, etc. We'll report it and pay on it, calling it a "free-will offering." Other moneys are given to a need, like paying the electric bill for need in the church family. We won't report it or pay on it, calling it a "love offering."

We also put a policy in place that we "fund the mission" from larger offerings given to a designated need from that offering. So, if someone gives us $1000 toward the purchase of a new lawn mower our policy is that $160 of it will be used to "Fund the Mission." If the person objects, we'll have to decide whether to take the money out of regular offerings to cover the designated gift.

[Rich Schmidt]

To be clear...y'all's districts adjusted income (or base, as we are calling it) goes beyond Total - WEF giving, right? We arrive at the same base for our district apportionment as we do for the WEF apportionment (by subtracting rental income, other 10% giving, etc.).

By "total contributions" I meant "total charitable contributions" not "total church income from all sources." The standard/new "funding the mission" approach to what counts as income. I just forgot 10% giving, which along with WEF giving is subtracted out. And then, yes, all the standard/new percentages are applied, including our district percentage of 5%.

It seems to me that the general church added a whole layer of confusion & complexity by having us subtract WEF & 10% giving BEFORE applying the percentages. I suppose it "lightens the load" a bit for us... but it breaks the whole tithing analogy:

If I have $1,000 come in, my tithe (10%) would be $100.

If the church has $1,000 come in, its WEF+P&B+Education (10%) is NOT $100 but $94.80... because you have to subtract out the WEF first.

I had to use the Planning Calculator on the Funding the Mission website to figure that out.

[Jon Bemis]

Ours is 10% for WEF, P&B, and Education, and then an additional 7.5% for district expenses for a total of 17.5%.

[Administrator]

Ken and I are on the Rocky Mountain District, which includes Montana and Wyoming. Our allocations are still pending approval by our district assembly in June, but the grand total for district (8.386%) and auxiliary (0.9%) allocations is recommended to be 9.286% in addition to the 10% going to WEF, P&B, and Education.

The grand total of 19.286% becomes a lower 'effective rate' (as I call it) of 18.28% if the local church fully funds WEF at the goal of 5.5% and thereby gets these funds discounted from all allocation goals.

The current financial and geographical realities in Montana and Wyoming are such that we are open to creative suggestions as to how we can reduce our district allocations while improving mission effectiveness in our local communities. We are 37 churches across a very large geographical area, our largest church being 250 or less in attendance with the majority of our churches averaging less than 100, many in rural communities. We are all ears to hear how other districts might deal with such a situation. Thanks:)

[Administrator]

Ours is 10% for WEF, P&B, and Education, and then an additional 7.5% for district expenses for a total of 17.5%.

Which district is this?

[Jon Twitchell]

To be clear...y'all's districts adjusted income (or base, as we are calling it) goes beyond Total - WEF giving, right? We arrive at the same base for our district apportionment as we do for the WEF apportionment (by subtracting rental income, other 10% giving, etc.).

Adjusted Income... Base... whatever.

It's Church Income (defined as income for which a tax-deductible receipt can be generated), MINUS the amount given to WEF and Approved Specials.

Our district percentage is applied to that same number.

(I suppose some districts might do something different... either apply it to Church Income (instead of Adjusted Church Income), or a tiered system based on the amount received... or some districts (sorry... can't remember who), are calculating District Ministries Fund based on LAST YEAR'S income instead of CURRENT YEAR'S income.)

[Jon Twitchell]

By "total contributions" I meant "total charitable contributions" not "total church income from all sources." The standard/new "funding the mission" approach to what counts as income. I just forgot 10% giving, which along with WEF giving is subtracted out. And then, yes, all the standard/new percentages are applied, including our district percentage of 5%.

It seems to me that the general church added a whole layer of confusion & complexity by having us subtract WEF & 10% giving BEFORE applying the percentages. I suppose it "lightens the load" a bit for us... but it breaks the whole tithing analogy:

If I have $1,000 come in, my tithe (10%) would be $100.

If the church has $1,000 come in, its WEF+P&B+Education (10%) is NOT $100 but $94.80... because you have to subtract out the WEF first.

I had to use the Planning Calculator on the Funding the Mission website to figure that out.

The reason for this, as I understand it, is that so many churches use a Faith Promise model for WEF. If I use a FP model, then I have a once a year convention, and ask people to pledge toward WEF (and other mission specials). Let's say that I raise 10,000 worth of pledges... if we don't exclude that money, then now I have to raise an additional 1,000.... and then an additional 100, and then an additional 10, and so on... They eliminated the problem on that end... but then created a new problem on this end.

The good news? If you just plan on 5.5% of total Church Income, then you'll end up roughly in the group that pays 5.7% (formerly the group that overpaid by 3% toward new works and entering new areas.)

[Rich Schmidt]

The good news? If you just plan on 5.5% of total Church Income, then you'll end up roughly in the group that pays 5.7% (formerly the group that overpaid by 3% toward new works and entering new areas.)

I'm telling our treasurer to do this. Just pay the full (on our district) 15% each month, and then give it a closer look in the last couple months to find out how far ahead we are and adjust accordingly.

BTW, we don't use the Faith Promise / pledges approach. So I've only seen it from the "new problem" side of things. :)

[Billie Goodson]

I have almost wrapped up our budget for the year and meet with the Finance committee (FC) Monday night and the board following that to present the final budget. After DA this year, I was challenged and have challenged the FC to do 6% for WEF... We will present that challenge to the board. We are talking about a presentation to the congregation in June (pending me having time to work out my portion of it) where we want to use some of the concepts of the Funding the Mission approach to ensure that everyone understands the missional aspects of our denomination.

Personally, I am a little disappointed with some of the aspects of our missions outlook coming out of our DA and what was reported. In one respect, what is happening in the reaches of our world is so encouraging. In other respects, what we are focusing on in our local area is so depressing. Maybe that is why they call it a burden.

[Jon Bemis]

Which district is this?

Georgia

[Scott Sherwood]

Northwestern Illinois will most likely be at 7% inclusive of district auxiliaries. Most churches in past years were at the 20% cap plus district auiliaries. For our church, this represents about a $20,000.00decrease in budgets next year.

(If this takes us off topic, someone say the word. I'll repost as a new thread, although it seems inextricably linked to me).

We are convinced that most American churches should not be looking for ways to do less for others. Our take on this is that now instead of that full 20% being obligated giving, we now will have the joy of designating part of it to global and local missions needs as we feel led.

Our plan is to begin paying our entire world evangelism fund out of general tithes & offerings. We will continue to have a Faith Promise weekend and will designate this "over and above" giving from our people as "over and above" giving to global and local missions. If it goes as planned, Faith Promise will no longer be a way for us to pay our obligations. It will be a way for us to give over and above.

Half will go to global missions:

Overpayment of WEF
Work & Witness
Missionary Deputations
Other "10% Specials"


Half will go to local missions:


Salvation Army
Homeless Mission
Recovery Ministries
Pregnancy Resource Center
Church Planting
Servanthood Evangelism Projects


Sure, I'm proud of our leadership for going this route, but that's not why I post this. All of a sudden American churches are gaining discretion over a significant portion of their annual budgets which before were obligated. It could be a game-changer for the Kingdom if an overwhelming majority decided to not let a decrease in what we are obligated to do for others cause a decrease in what we choose to do for others. Now we have the discretion to target these funds for specific projects and potentially increase the overall impact and our people's buy-in.

By one economic historian's tally, Americans on average have a higher standard of living than 90-some percent of people who have ever lived on the planet. Is 5.5% the figure for the entire global church for WEF? If so, surely Americans could do at least a little more.

I'm attaching a picture of an interior mud wall of a church in Ethiopia that I visited. It is their World Evangelism Fund poster. These people are givers. There were about a thousand at a Mehaber in a mountain village that day all of whom ate dried false-bananas outside while their elders fed us an overwhelming feast inside. I can't imagine the personal sacrifice many went to that day to honor strangers with overwhelming hospitality, and it wasn't a one time surge of generosity for them. It is the result of a prayer-soaked holiness discipleship that burts forth continually in fruitfulness and blessing.

Our brothers and sisters around the world have received from us and are now modeling for us what it looks like to live out what we taught them. Were it not for our missions connection with these far flung regions of the world like Africa and South America we would not be in a position to learn from them now. In response to what we are learning from these areas, we are praying more, giving more, discipling more, and God is trusting us more than ever before in our church's 95 year history. More conversions, more sanctifications, more baptisms than we've ever recorded. And we are just now beginning to scratch the surface of what our brothers & sisters around the world are experiencing.

I say we need more of what missions giving gets us, not less.

[Tim Bourland]

If it goes as planned, Faith Promise will no longer be a way for us to pay our obligations. It will be a way for us to give over and above.

Half will go to global missions:

Overpayment of WEF
Work & Witness
Missionary Deputations
Other "10% Specials"


Half will go to local missions:


Salvation Army
Homeless Mission
Recovery Ministries
Pregnancy Resource Center
Church Planting
Servanthood Evangelism Projects


Sure, I'm proud of our leadership for going this route



I'm proud of your leadership, as well. This is a great step of faith and - hopefully - will become the "norm" on your district.

[Rich Schmidt]

For our church, this represents about a $20,000.00decrease in budgets next year.

(If this takes us off topic, someone say the word. I'll repost as a new thread, although it seems inextricably linked to me).

We are convinced that most American churches should not be looking for ways to do less for others.

I haven't done the math to see if the new plan will mean an increase or decrease for us. But it's not a decrease for everyone. A couple of large churches on our district are seeing their overall denominational giving expectation grow by more than $100,000. They almost certainly won't be able to reach the goal being set for them under the new plan. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I agree that we shouldn't be looking for ways to do less or give less. I'm glad the new plan is freeing your church up to allocate more of your giving as you see fit. That's wonderful.

[Kevin Rector]

Thanks Scott. I am convinced that a church that develops a generous spirit is a church that will grow in so many ways. Your church is setting an example for others, and it's a great example to follow. I've always exhorted my churches to be generous, and fortunately so far, I've always been preaching to the choir. We do not have a God of scarce resources - when we give generously and with cheerful spirits God will provide for our needs.

[David Pettigrew]

Dallas District - 5.5% inclusive. We are 60ish churches (I think 63 at last count), most small. We own a campground. This will be a net decrease for us of about .5 percent. Our leadership has made a commitment to operate at a bare bones level. Our district office has one part time secretary, for example.

For churches that are seeing a huge increase in their apportionment under the new system - the question begs to be asked if they were really paying their fair share under the old system. I was always shocked as a small church pastor when I got my district journal and found that churches four times the size and giving level of my own were somehow paying less in budgets than we were. When I questioned this, I'd usually get a head shake and a chuckle, and some explanation about how copy paper really is a capital improvement :)

For some churches, no longer being able to deduct debt and pastor's housing will make a significant difference. I was always curious as to why we rewarded these particular expenditures.

[Kevin Rector]

But it's not a decrease for everyone. A couple of large churches on our district are seeing their overall denominational giving expectation grow by more than $100,000. They almost certainly won't be able to reach the goal being set for them under the new plan. It will be interesting to see what happens.

We had a presentation from Lenexa that said that approximately 25% of churches will have their apportionments increase. But that they will be allowed to phase in that increase over a period of time (I can't remember precisely how much time). My church is going to have an increase of about 5% of income, but that's predominately because we've been paying budgets for the last two years based on not having a pastor, which substantially reduces the budgets under the old plan.

[Scott Sherwood]

I'm proud of your leadership, as well. .

Feel I need to clarify. When I said I was proud of "our leadership," I meant our lay leaders without whom we wouldn't have the will or the means to do anything.

[Ken Osso]

And what district are you on, Ken?

We're on the Rocky Mountain District in beautiful Missoula, Montana

[Houston Thomas]

If I have $1,000 come in, my tithe (10%) would be $100.

If the church has $1,000 come in, its WEF+P&B+Education (10%) is NOT $100 but $94.80... because you have to subtract out the WEF first.

I had to use the Planning Calculator on the Funding the Mission website to figure that out.

Hi Rich,

I'm a layperson in Lafayette. I still don't get this. Could you explain a little bit more why 10% is not 10%?

Also, I really don't understand how Faith Promise giving fits into this. Let's say we receive $5,000 of total charitable contributions with $500 of that $5000 being Faith Promise. What would be the apportionment?

This layperson thanks you

[Scott Sherwood]

Hi Rich,

I'm a layperson in Lafayette. I still don't get this. Could you explain a little bit more why 10% is not 10%?

Also, I really don't understand how Faith Promise giving fits into this. Let's say we receive $5,000 of total charitable contributions with $500 of that $5000 being Faith Promise. What would be the apportionment?

This layperson thanks you

This link helps. http://app.nazarene.org/FTMCalc/

The problem is that we have a circular formula caused by deducting WEF and other approved missions giving from total contribution income in order to determine what we owe to WEF. Of course this can't exactly be done, so the GMC has put a formula into effect and given this calculator to make it simple for us to see what it figures out to. If you plug the appropriate numbers into this calculator, it will show you what you owe.

[Rich Schmidt]

Hi Rich,

I'm a layperson in Lafayette. I still don't get this. Could you explain a little bit more why 10% is not 10%?

Also, I really don't understand how Faith Promise giving fits into this. Let's say we receive $5,000 of total charitable contributions with $500 of that $5000 being Faith Promise. What would be the apportionment?

This layperson thanks you

I'm hoping Scott's explanation helped. But just to run with your example:

If all $500 of the Faith Promise offering is given to WEF & 10% mission specials, then your "base" or "adjusted income" would be $4,500, and that's what all the percentages are calculated from.

Using the numbers on our district, with $4,500 as the base:
WEF (5.5%) = $248
ONU (2.5%) = $113
P&B (2%) = $90
District (5%) = $225

So if you sent all $500 to WEF, you gave more than double what was expected toward WEF.

Does that help?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Hi Rich,

I'm a layperson in Lafayette. I still don't get this. Could you explain a little bit more why 10% is not 10%?

Also, I really don't understand how Faith Promise giving fits into this. Let's say we receive $5,000 of total charitable contributions with $500 of that $5000 being Faith Promise. What would be the apportionment?

This layperson thanks you

Let's say the total Funding the Mission percentage for your district is 15%. That 15% is arrived at by taking 2.5% Education, 2% Pensions, 5% district, and 5.5% WEF.

So, in May you receive $10,000 in offerings, $500 of which is given as Faith Promise.

You run the formula:
$10,000 giving
-500 faith promise
--------
$9,500

x2.5% EDU = $237.50
x2% Pensions = $190
x5% District = $475
x5.5% WEF = $522.50

Send that to the appropriate places and your Funding the Mission is paid in full for May.

On the payment side, Faith Promise enters in again. All the other Funding the Mission monies comes from regular tithes and offerings.

The WEF is paid, first by Faith Promise monies, then, if there's a remainder owed, it's supplemented from tithes and offerings. Back to the above illustration:

The formula says you need to send $522.50 but only $500 came in.

$500.00 from Faith Promise Giving
+ 22.50 from titles and offerings
-------
$522.50

Of course, it may be the other way. You may have raised more faith promise than the formula says you owe. In that case, I suggest you keep track. What you overpay one month, especially right after the faith promise campaign may be needed in the months to come. Either send it all in and credit yourself for the future or hold back what isn't yet owed to use in future payments.

Of course, if you still have more raised for WEF than you sent in at the end of the year, you need to send it all, after all it was given for that purpose.

Hope this helps.

[Wilson Deaton]

Could you explain a little bit more why 10% is not 10%?

It’s roughly analogous to tithing on net rather than gross…. (In this case, gross would be all income to the church and net would be income after deducting what is given to WEF and few other things.)

IMAGINE calculating your own weekly tithe AFTER deducting your offering from your income…

Imagine that last week you earned $500 and gave $60 to church (regular tithe plus some extra for Alabaster).

When it’s time to tithe this week, you take your last week’s income ($500) subtract your last week’s offering to church ($60) giving you a new post-deduction income figure of $440 and you tithe ($44) on that.

Obviously $44 is not actually a full 10% of your gross income.

With the new apportionment formula we are being asked to give a percentage of “net” not “gross.”

Wilson

[Rich Schmidt]

When it’s time to tithe this week, you take your last week’s income ($500) subtract your last week’s offering to church ($60) giving you a new post-deduction income figure of $440 and you tithe ($44) on that.

Except that we're dealing with current income now, which is what makes it so goofy to figure out. Dealing with last week's income is kind of like the old system, where we worked from last year's numbers.

I'm glad we're working with current income now, and overall I like the new system better. It's just this one part of it that trips me up, because it makes it such a pain to do the math. :)

[Houston Thomas]

Thank you to all 4 of you. Your explanations are helpful.

[Billy Cox]

Except that we're dealing with current income now, which is what makes it so goofy to figure out. Dealing with last week's income is kind of like the old system, where we worked from last year's numbers.

I'm glad we're working with current income now, and overall I like the new system better. It's just this one part of it that trips me up, because it makes it such a pain to do the math. :)

The shift to using current income in the formula seems to be (finally) an acknowledgement of organizational decline that predates the current economic downturn.

[Jon Twitchell]

*DISCLAIMER* The following method is not approved by GMC. However, I don't work for the GMC. You shouldn't use this method to pay your allocations... but it might be helpful in estimating your allocations in order to build a budget. *DISCLAIMER*

If you need a quick and easy way of estimating WEF (especially if you haven't done any WEF or 10% giving yet), you can do some quick cross-multiplying as follows:



1.055 Church Income
------ = -----------------
.055 WEF
Cross multiply to find WEF. .055*Church Income/1.055 = WEF Allocation.

Or, to simplify further, you can estimate WEF as 5.214% of total income. (.055/1.055 = .521).

Therefore, a church that expects to raise $100,000 of total Church Income this year can expect to send $5,214 to WEF.

If you intended to overpay at the 5.7% level, you simply replace .055 with .057 and 1.055 with 1.057 respectively:



1.057 Church Income
------ = -----------------
.057 WEF
Again, if you cross-multiply, you find that you can simplify the formula to WEF = .05393*Church Income. Therefore, a church expecting to raise $100,000 this year should plan to send $5,393 to WEF, in order to pay at the 5.7% giving level.

*DISCLAIMER* If you don't understand what I've just typed... please don't use it!!! Just use the great online giving calculator at www.fundingthemission.org (http://www.fundingthemission.org). *DISCLAIMER*

[Dwayne Petry]

It’s roughly analogous to tithing on net rather than gross…. (In this case, gross would be all income to the church and net would be income after deducting what is given to WEF and few other things.)

What few other things?

[Rich Schmidt]

What few other things?

10% mission specials

[Wilson Deaton]

Except that we're dealing with current income now, which is what makes it so goofy to figure out.

It'll be easier to pay each month based on previous month's figures for the majority of the year and then make a final adjustment in the final month...

Wilson

[Rich Schmidt]

It'll be easier to pay each month based on previous month's figures for the majority of the year and then make a final adjustment in the final month...

Wilson

That's certainly one way to handle it. :)

Or, like we talked about earlier in the thread, we could just ignore the whole "subtract out WEF & 10% mission specials first" part of it and overpay all year, and then make adjustments in the last month or two, if we need to.

[Jon Twitchell]

Is anyone interested in a tracking spreadsheet? I think I finally finished creating an Excel document that works... at least enough to get you close. One sheet is for you to enter weekly church income, amounts paid out to WEF, 10%, District, etc. Another sheet is a slightly more attractive report suitable for printing to a board meeting.

If there is interest, I will clean it up, lock the formula cells, and upload it somewhere.

[Wilson Deaton]

If there is interest, I will clean it up, lock the formula cells, and upload it somewhere.

Go ahead, Jon. Lock and load!

Wilson

[Jon Twitchell]

Go ahead, Jon. Lock and load!

Wilson

Hopefully sometime today then.... I'm figuring out how to eliminate all of our local specifics, and create ways for you to enter your own data.

[Jon Twitchell]

Here it is: http://jontwitchell.com/general_funding_allocation_worksheet_v1a.xls (http://www.jontwitchell.com/general_funding_allocation_worksheet.xls)

There are four sheets, the first sheet is instructions, the second sheet allows you to enter yearly data (church name, fiscal year, percentages), the third sheet lets you enter weekly data, and the fourth sheet is a report you can print off.

I've given it fairly rigorous testing against the calculator... however it's not unlikely for the report to be off by a penny. Most of us round up to the nearest dollar, so it's probably not much of an issue. If you use this during the year, be certain to periodically check against the fundingthemission calculator... especially as you near the end of the year.

Why would you use this instead of the calculator? Because you want to keep a running tally... or because you want to track your district giving in the same spreadsheet... I suppose other reasons might exist. Please let me know if it's helpful... I may offer a revision if people find significant bugs, or consistently request additional features.

[Kevin Rector]

Here's a bug (or at least something that makes it not as useful if you're not from the Maine District): Our district has a 6% allocation and that covers all the auxiliaries. So even though I put 0% for district NYI etc. on the first sheet it still told me I owed money to them. It would be great if the sheet used the percentages entered on the first sheet instead of hard coding that like it currently is doing.

[Jon Twitchell]

I certainly intended it to grab the percentages off the first sheet... I must have missed a line. Let me fix it.

Thanks!

[Jon Twitchell]

Here's a bug (or at least something that makes it not as useful if you're not from the Maine District): Our district has a 6% allocation and that covers all the auxiliaries. So even though I put 0% for district NYI etc. on the first sheet it still told me I owed money to them. It would be great if the sheet used the percentages entered on the first sheet instead of hard coding that like it currently is doing.

I think I fixed it. Please re-download the file: http://jontwitchell.com/general_funding_allocation_worksheet_v1a.xls

[Jon Twitchell]

Nope... still not fixed... sorry.

[Jon Twitchell]

Alright... let's try that again. I got interrupted by a phone call somewhere in the midst of putting it together, and forgot to finish some edits.

Obviously, when I first built it, I had hard-coded formulas... and then had to revise it to general formulas that weren't district specific.

Try again: http://jontwitchell.com/general_funding_allocation_worksheet_v1a.xls

Please let me know if it works.

[Kevin Rector]

I just deleted the district auxiliaries part off. That worked for me :)

[Jon Twitchell]

I just deleted the district auxiliaries part off. That worked for me :)

It is fixed though, now, right?

I assume you had to unprotect the sheet to delete those lines/columns?

[Kevin Rector]

nope, just deleted them, but I'm using Numbers on a Mac, maybe it strips the protection when it imports the spreadsheet.

[Jon Twitchell]

Bad macs.

;)

I just fixed one more error. here's the new link: http://jontwitchell.com/general_funding_allocation_worksheet_v1a.xls

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Your spreadsheet adventures reminds me of, I think, the second serious spreadsheet I ever wrote. In the early 1990's Louisiana district went to a allocation system similar to what the denomination is doing now. Churches were to send a percentage each month that went to everything but General Budget. The district then divided it out according to a formula and sent it off.

Coming up with a spreadsheet to do that part was simple.

Then, a church reported that they had a SNU alumnus who paid their EDU budget each year, so they were sending only monies to be divided among the remaining budgets. It seems that there were some other unique ones, like a pastor who paid his own P&B or something. Oh boy, that was a new kettle of fish!

Removing an item changed every percentage across the board.

It took awhile and lots of trial and error but I came up with a solution for it all. The district was still using my spreadsheet when I left the district a few years later. I imagine they found some better solutions soon thereafter!

[Wilson Deaton]

I'm curious...would you mind sharing what percentage of your local church's income goes toward district apportionments (and which district you are a part of)?

Our district apportionment for the past year was well over 10% of our income. The new global funding plan has forced our district to make some changes, and our district apportionments are now a flat 9% of our income for each local church for the coming year. I've always imagined that our district burden is well above average, but I would love to gain a better perspective by hearing from you.

Ours (Wisconsin) isn't official yet but we are being told that it will be 9%. Like yours, our district is well above average in this regard.

Wilson

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Bad macs.

;)

I just fixed one more error. here's the new link: http://jontwitchell.com/general_funding_allocation_worksheet_v1a.xls

Jon, this is a great-looking spread. If we get it working, I'll likely use it over the one I created.

But something's not right. Our District Fund amount is the same as the WEF (5.5%). Yet on the report sheet, they're different amounts. The District Fund amount matched what I had previously calculated. I wonder if the WEF formula in your spreadsheet is somehow incorrect...? Or do I have it wrong somehow?

[Jon Twitchell]

Jeremy...

I struggled with how best to do this.

Try this: Pretend to pay your WEF allocation (enter the payment in the appropriate cell), and see what happens to the rest of the numbers. They should all change.

The question is this: Should the spreadsheet assume that you are going to pay your WEF in full? Or should it calculate the rest of the numbers based on what you actually paid? I opted for option 1 for my local version of the spreadsheet, but thought it best to go for option 2 for this spreadsheet.

[Jon Twitchell]

At the same time, I've set the WEF calculation to assume that you are going to pay it. Check the formula for how the WEF allocation is computed. It's .055/105.5*(ChurchIncome - 10%Specials) - WEF

[Jon Twitchell]

Today's trivia question:

If you receive $1000 in church income on Sunday, how much money should you send to the GMC to meet your WEF allocation?

a) $52.14
b) $53.93
c) $55
d) $57

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Today's trivia question:

If you receive $1000 in church income on Sunday, how much money should you send to the GMC to meet your WEF allocation?

a) $52.14
b) $53.93
c) $55
d) $57

I think you have to include information on how much of that $1000 was given as Faith Promise, Easter Offering, etc. or to a 10% Approved Special.

Since you called it "income" I take it that you aren't including money put in by parents to pay for their children going to camp in a few weeks. Or related types of money-in/out.

[Jon Twitchell]

I think you have to include information on how much of that $1000 was given as Faith Promise, Easter Offering, etc. or to a 10% Approved Special.

Since you called it "income" I take it that you aren't including money put in by parents to pay for their children going to camp in a few weeks. Or related types of money-in/out.

Hmmm...

Your second sentence: Correct. I've used "Church Income" intentionally, indicating that this is not in/out money, rental money, or money for product/services rendered, etc. Neither is it interest, insurance claims, or revenue from trusts.

Your first sentence: Yes... you're sort of right. But you don't get to exclude WEF/10% specials until you pay them. Having simply received earmarked money doesn't qualify for you to exclude it.... you have to send it out.

For the sake of clarity, let me rework my question:


If you receive $1000 in Church Income on Sunday (none of it earmarked for WEF or 10% Specials), how much money should you send to the GMC to meet your WEF allocation?

a) $52.14
b) $53.93
c) $55
d) $57

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Hmmm...

Your second sentence: Correct. I've used "Church Income" intentionally, indicating that this is not in/out money, rental money, or money for product/services rendered, etc. Neither is it interest, insurance claims, or revenue from trusts.

Your first sentence: Yes... you're sort of right. But you don't get to exclude WEF/10% specials until you pay them. Having simply received earmarked money doesn't qualify for you to exclude it.... you have to send it out.

For the sake of clarity, let me rework my question:

This from the www.fundingthemission.org:

In order to fund the mission structure of the church in the most efficient way possible, our denominational leadership voted to exempt all contributions specifically for WEF (for example: Easter, Faith Promise, and Thanksgiving) and Ten Percent Mission Specials from the calculation of global mission contributions. That is, taking an offering for WEF and other, approved Mission Specials will not raise the allocation amount (or budget) of a local church.
From that, I conclude that we take monies raised, minus that raised specifically for WEF and 10% specials and then run the 5.5% formula. From what you say here, I take it that you read this to mean that you can't exclude the WEF money until you send it in. Maybe it says it that way elsewhere, but the paragraph I found specifically talks about money "raised" and not "sent."

[Jon Twitchell]

This from the www.fundingthemission.org:

In order to fund the mission structure of the church in the most efficient way possible, our denominational leadership voted to exempt all contributions specifically for WEF (for example: Easter, Faith Promise, and Thanksgiving) and Ten Percent Mission Specials from the calculation of global mission contributions. That is, taking an offering for WEF and other, approved Mission Specials will not raise the allocation amount (or budget) of a local church.
From that, I conclude that we take monies raised, minus that raised specifically for WEF and 10% specials and then run the 5.5% formula. From what you say here, I take it that you read this to mean that you can't exclude the WEF money until you send it in. Maybe it says it that way elsewhere, but the paragraph I found specifically talks about money "raised" and not "sent."

If we assume that you're not holding onto that money, and immediately sending it in, then it doesn't matter.

The calculator application at fundingthemission.org only excludes money you have sent... not money that you're holding onto. There's no place (that I've found) on that calculator to enter money that you've raised but not sent.

On a stewardship note... and financial integrity with your donors... I don't think that we should be holding onto that money at length anyway... but sometimes, if we're in the midst of a multi-week campaign (for instance, our alabaster dribbles in over a few weeks), we hold onto that money until it's all in. In the case of alabaster, the online reporting application doesn't know that I've raised it... it only knows that I've sent it.

In fact, the reporting calculator doesn't even exclude my WEF contribution until I make it. Right now, it says that I owe $172.84 to P&B. But once I make my WEF contribution, that amount should go down to $163.83.

[Jon Twitchell]

All of that to say... the lesson I'm learning is this:

To be the most accurate on a month-to-month basis, you should do your reporting and giving in the following order:

1) Send out your 10% Specials first.
2) Calculate your WEF second. (At this point, ignore any other calculations generated, either by my spreadsheet or the online calculator)
3) Send your WEF payment second, and report it as having been sent.
4) Run the calculator again to see your P&B, EDU, DMF, etc.
5) Send your other allocations last.

[Rich Schmidt]

This from the www.fundingthemission.org:

In order to fund the mission structure of the church in the most efficient way possible, our denominational leadership voted to exempt all contributions specifically for WEF (for example: Easter, Faith Promise, and Thanksgiving) and Ten Percent Mission Specials from the calculation of global mission contributions. That is, taking an offering for WEF and other, approved Mission Specials will not raise the allocation amount (or budget) of a local church.
From that, I conclude that we take monies raised, minus that raised specifically for WEF and 10% specials and then run the 5.5% formula. From what you say here, I take it that you read this to mean that you can't exclude the WEF money until you send it in. Maybe it says it that way elsewhere, but the paragraph I found specifically talks about money "raised" and not "sent."

From the FAQ document available at that same site:


Will giving to the World Evangelism Fund and Mission Specials be included as income in the new giving plan?
Yes. Mission giving is to be reported in total income, however, amounts contributed to WEF and Mission Specials are excluded from total income prior to the application of allocation percentages. Collecting an offering that benefits World Evangelism Fund, such as the Easter Offering or Faith Promise, helps the church achieve its giving goals without raising giving goals. The new plan, as modified by the BGS in September of 2009, is an encouragement to all churches for missional giving.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

If we assume that you're not holding onto that money, and immediately sending it in, then it doesn't matter.

The calculator application at fundingthemission.org only excludes money you have sent... not money that you're holding onto. There's no place (that I've found) on that calculator to enter money that you've raised but not sent.

On a stewardship note... and financial integrity with your donors... I don't think that we should be holding onto that money at length anyway... but sometimes, if we're in the midst of a multi-week campaign (for instance, our alabaster dribbles in over a few weeks), we hold onto that money until it's all in. In the case of alabaster, the online reporting application doesn't know that I've raised it... it only knows that I've sent it.

In fact, the reporting calculator doesn't even exclude my WEF contribution until I make it. Right now, it says that I owe $172.84 to P&B. But once I make my WEF contribution, that amount should go down to $163.83.

Interesting. I can see how this might be an issue and I better understand where you're coming from now. I think in our case, this is going to take place monthly with calculations being done as the monies are being sent.

Beyond that, though, I think common sense dictates (when applying the paragraph I quoted) that it's acceptable to not report money raised for 10% or WEF until the church is ready to send it in. As long as one isn't gaming the system to their advantage I can't see a problem with it. After all, the new funding the mission system gives us the math to do ourselves. The calculator is basically a convenience and not a mandate.

[Rich Schmidt]

Today's trivia question:

If you receive $1000 in church income on Sunday, how much money should you send to the GMC to meet your WEF allocation?

a) $52.14
b) $53.93
c) $55
d) $57

According to the online calculator (http://app.nazarene.org/FTMCalc/) the denomination provides, the answer is $52.14.

[Houston Thomas]

If we assume that you're not holding onto that money, and immediately sending it in, then it doesn't matter.

The calculator application at fundingthemission.org only excludes money you have sent... not money that you're holding onto. There's no place (that I've found) on that calculator to enter money that you've raised but not sent.

On a stewardship note... and financial integrity with your donors... I don't think that we should be holding onto that money at length anyway... but sometimes, if we're in the midst of a multi-week campaign (for instance, our alabaster dribbles in over a few weeks), we hold onto that money until it's all in. In the case of alabaster, the online reporting application doesn't know that I've raised it... it only knows that I've sent it.


Thank you.

This illustrates my confusion with the Calculator. I thought it would take into consideration what you have received and calculate how much you should send. It doesn't. It takes into consideration what you have received and what you have sent and then calculate how much you owe or have overpaid.

Right?

[Jon Twitchell]

According to the online calculator (http://app.nazarene.org/FTMCalc/) the denomination provides, the answer is $52.14.

Correct. If you send the entire $52.14 in, then it excludes that $52.14 from the $1000 (leaving $947.86 as "Adjusted Church Income"). $52.14 is 5.5% of $947.86.

[Rich Schmidt]

Thank you.

This illustrates my confusion with the Calculator. I thought it would take into consideration what you have received and calculate how much you should send. It doesn't. It takes into consideration what you have received and what you have sent and then calculate how much you owe or have overpaid.

Right?

You are correct.

[Jon Twitchell]

Thank you.

This illustrates my confusion with the Calculator. I thought it would take into consideration what you have received and calculate how much you should send. It doesn't. It takes into consideration what you have received and what you have sent and then calculate how much you owe or have overpaid.

Right?

Absolutely correct.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Pretty sharp Jon!

I just sent this email to fundingthemission:


Perhaps you can help us understand this. NazNet is having a discussion about using the online calculator for Funding the Mission calculations.

The discussion is here: http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?526-District-Apportionments

Here's the scenario: a church raises $1000 - none of which is given specifically for WEF, 10% Specials, etc.

Since the WEF is calculated at 5.5% the amount to send is $55

However, if I use the planning calculator, it reports I should send $52.14 - apparently subtracting itself from $1000 and then multiplying by 5.5%

Which approach is correct?

Thanks.

[Rich Schmidt]

Pretty sharp Jon!

I just sent this email to fundingthemission:


Perhaps you can help us understand this. NazNet is having a discussion about using the online calculator for Funding the Mission calculations.

The discussion is here: http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?526-District-Apportionments

Here's the scenario: a church raises $1000 - none of which is given specifically for WEF, 10% Specials, etc.

Since the WEF is calculated at 5.5% the amount to send is $55

However, if I use the planning calculator, it reports I should send $52.14 - apparently subtracting itself from $1000 and then multiplying by 5.5%

Which approach is correct?

Thanks.


Hmmm... I'm not sure why you felt you needed to ask that, Scott. Everything of theirs that I've read says you subtract out money given to WEF & 10% mission specials BEFORE applying the percentages.

Edited to add: Still, it will be interesting to hear their response. :)

[Kevin Rector]

We had a presentation for our district from the head of Stewardship Ministries and he made it really clear that we send in 5.5% of total raised minus 5.5% of total raised. He noted that there is a formula to calculate what 5.5% would be after you deduct 5.5% from the original total and that's what the calculator does.

It is correct that it does not matter how income is earmarked for the WEF and 10% Special deduction - if you never send that money in you wouldn't get the discount. So the best rule of thumb is that if you get $500 for Faith Promise and you do intend to actually send it is for WEF that you should go ahead and send it in immediately. The point of the WEF and 10% special is that you can substantially overpay your WEF (if the Faith Promise money comes in) without having to then pay educational and P&B budgets on that money too.

Personally I wish they would have just had us pay straight percentages and allow us to not pay allocations on any overpayment. As it stands, if you have a special offering for P&B and overpay your P&B budget you will have to pay 5.5% of that overpayment towards WEF and 2.5% towards Education. What this means is that people will end up only be overly generous with WEF, P&B and Education will never get overpaid.

[Jon Twitchell]

We had a presentation for our district from the head of Stewardship Ministries and he made it really clear that we send in 5.5% of total raised minus 5.5% of total raised. He noted that there is a formula to calculate what 5.5% would be after you deduct 5.5% from the original total and that's what the calculator does.

It is correct that it does not matter how income is earmarked for the WEF and 10% Special deduction - if you never send that money in you wouldn't get the discount. So the best rule of thumb is that if you get $500 for Faith Promise and you do intend to actually send it is for WEF that you should go ahead and send it in immediately. The point of the WEF and 10% special is that you can substantially overpay your WEF (if the Faith Promise money comes in) without having to then pay educational and P&B budgets on that money too.

Personally I wish they would have just had us pay straight percentages and allow us to not pay allocations on any overpayment. As it stands, if you have a special offering for P&B and overpay your P&B budget you will have to pay 5.5% of that overpayment towards WEF and 2.5% towards Education. What this means is that people will end up only be overly generous with WEF, P&B and Education will never get overpaid.

Kevin,

Why not consider any money given toward P&B/EDU that's over-and-above your allocation as In/Out money? I think that would be consistent with the intent of the formula without nit-picking. It would allow you to be generous to those other areas without creating a penalty.

(Disclaimer: I'm NOT a representative of GMC in this matter... ;) )

[Rich Schmidt]

Kevin,

Why not consider any money given toward P&B/EDU that's over-and-above your allocation as In/Out money? I think that would be consistent with the intent of the formula without nit-picking. It would allow you to be generous to those other areas without creating a penalty.

(Disclaimer: I'm NOT a representative of GMC in this matter... ;) )

That's not how it works, Jon. I think they've been pretty clear on that.

Even if someone in my church gave directly to GMC, earmarking it for P&B, if they give credit to our church for the donation, then it counts as part of our church's income. If they don't give credit to our church... well, that's their decision. But we've been down that road here BC (Before the Crash) on ways churches might try to avoid having their "church income" number go up by having people pay for things directly. It can get pretty ridiculous.

(Example of the ridiculousness: Why not consider money given to pay the rent or utility bills "in/out" money? Or why not have people pay them directly, instead of giving money to the church? Etc.)

[Jon Twitchell]

That's not how it works, Jon. I think they've been pretty clear on that.

Yeah... you're probably right.

So... if you have people who want to be generous to P&B or their Educational institution, then once you've met your allocation, you should encourage them to be generous directly to those institutions. Publish the address and ask them to mail directly there.

[Rich Schmidt]

Yeah... you're probably right.

So... if you have people who want to be generous to P&B or their Educational institution, then once you've met your allocation, you should encourage them to be generous directly to those institutions. Publish the address and ask them to mail directly there.

It looks like I edited my post after you'd already started to reply...

[Jon Twitchell]

Even if someone in my church gave directly to GMC, earmarking it for P&B, if they give credit to our church for the donation, then it counts as part of our church's income. If they don't give credit to our church... well, that's their decision.

Yes... also true. And ultimately, I agree... I don't want to be gaming the system, and I regret suggesting to Kevin that he might do so.

Interestingly enough, at one point I was told by a GMC rep that churches would be able to decline credit for 10% Special giving that came directly from individuals. I don't know if that ended up being implemented or not... and I don't know if that would apply to giving for P&B. (And of course, if you did decline that credit, then it might prevent your pastor from getting additional benefit if that credit would have tripped the next tier of benefits.)

[Mark Lail]

Greetings from Olivet's PALCON. Kudos to Jon Twitchell for wisdom and Scott Sherwood for missional passion.

The online calculator at the FTM website is patterned after the new Annual Pastor's Report. In 2011 a church will have fully met its goals if line 31-WEF is 5.5% of line 30-Church Income less the sum of Lines 31-WEF and 32-Mission Specials. The APR evaluates by $$ that have been given to WEF or 10% specials by the church rather than those $$ that may have been raised for such purposes. So, we created the online calculator to function the same way.

It is also true that the online calculator, when determining WEF, presumes the payment of WEF but not when determining the P&B and EDU allocations. It waits for the funds to post to the General Treasurer's records before they enter into the calculations for P&B and EDU. So, if you have $1000 regular income the calculator will suggest $52.14 for WEF, $20 for P&B and $25 for EDU. Once a $52.14 contribution to WEF is posted at the GT's office then the P&B goal will go down from $20 to $18.96 and the EDU will go down from $25 to $23.70. Two things to consider are: 1. if you accidentally overpay the P&B and EDU by those tiny amounts, the online calculator adjusts for the overpayment on the second week 2. if you submit WEF funds electronically (after the June 1st revision of the website) they will show immediately on the dashboard of the online calculator as a pending transaction which eliminates the wait for posting.

So briefly, the FTM percentages apply to Income less $$ submitted to the WEF or MS rather than $$ raised for those purposes, just like the APR.

[Mark Lail]

*DISCLAIMER* The following method is not approved by GMC. However, I don't work for the GMC. You shouldn't use this method to pay your allocations... but it might be helpful in estimating your allocations in order to build a budget. *DISCLAIMER*

If you need a quick and easy way of estimating WEF (especially if you haven't done any WEF or 10% giving yet), you can do some quick cross-multiplying as follows:



105.5 Church Income
------ = -----------------
.055 WEF
Cross multiply to find WEF. .055*Church Income/105.5 = WEF Allocation.

Or, to simplify further, you can estimate WEF as 5.214% of total income. (.055/105.5 = .521).

Therefore, a church that expects to raise $100,000 of total Church Income this year can expect to send $5,214 to WEF.

If you intended to overpay at the 5.7% level, you simply replace .055 with .057 and 105.5 with 105.7 respectively:



105.7 Church Income
------ = -----------------
.057 WEF
Again, if you cross-multiply, you find that you can simplify the formula to WEF = .05393*Church Income. Therefore, a church expecting to raise $100,000 this year should plan to send $5,393 to WEF, in order to pay at the 5.7% giving level.

*DISCLAIMER* If you don't understand what I've just typed... please don't use it!!! Just use the great online giving calculator at www.fundingthemission.org (http://www.fundingthemission.org). *DISCLAIMER*

This won't work with .055 and 105.5 but it will with either 5.5 and 105.5 or .055 and 1.055. But then again, what is a factor of 100 among friends :-)

[Jon Twitchell]

This won't work with .055 and 105.5 but it will with either 5.5 and 105.5 or .055 and 1.055. But then again, what is a factor of 100 among friends :-)

Arggh... I had it right in my head... I typed it wrong.

Thanks!

And I no longer have ability to edit that post. Hmmm...

[Rich Schmidt]

Greetings from Olivet's PALCON. Kudos to Jon Twitchell for wisdom and Scott Sherwood for missional passion.

The online calculator at the FTM website is patterned after the new Annual Pastor's Report. In 2011 a church will have fully met its goals if line 31-WEF is 5.5% of line 30-Church Income less the sum of Lines 31-WEF and 32-Mission Specials. The APR evaluates by $$ that have been given to WEF or 10% specials by the church rather than those $$ that may have been raised for such purposes. So, we created the online calculator to function the same way.

It is also true that the online calculator, when determining WEF, presumes the payment of WEF but not when determining the P&B and EDU allocations. It waits for the funds to post to the General Treasurer's records before they enter into the calculations for P&B and EDU. So, if you have $1000 regular income the calculator will suggest $52.14 for WEF, $20 for P&B and $25 for EDU. Once a $52.14 contribution to WEF is posted at the GT's office then the P&B goal will go down from $20 to $18.96 and the EDU will go down from $25 to $23.70. Two things to consider are: 1. if you accidentally overpay the P&B and EDU by those tiny amounts, the online calculator adjusts for the overpayment on the second week 2. if you submit WEF funds electronically (after the June 1st revision of the website) they will show immediately on the dashboard of the online calculator as a pending transaction which eliminates the wait for posting.

So briefly, the FTM percentages apply to Income less $$ submitted to the WEF or MS rather than $$ raised for those purposes, just like the APR.

Thanks, Mark.

FWIW, the online calculator that's been referred to on this thread so far is the planning calculator, not the actual reporting form. The planning calculator doesn't wait for anything to post at the General Treasurer's records. It just does the math.

From what I understand, the reporting form (whatever it's called) will actually track the church's giving over the course of the year, updating the numbers as you go. That's a nice tool. I hope our treasurer will take advantage of it. :)

[Mark Lail]

Thanks, Mark.

FWIW, the online calculator that's been referred to on this thread so far is the planning calculator, not the actual reporting form. The planning calculator doesn't wait for anything to post at the General Treasurer's records. It just does the math.

From what I understand, the reporting form (whatever it's called) will actually track the church's giving over the course of the year, updating the numbers as you go. That's a nice tool. I hope our treasurer will take advantage of it. :)

Yes, that is correct. I was presuming that everyone was logging into the website and viewing the full calculator. However, it only becomes available when one's 2010-2011 church year begins.

If there is interest I'd be willing to schedule a special Naznet Webinar where up to 100 participants could log on with me. I would demonstrate the online calculator using several scenarios. An hour long webinar would allow plenty of time for questions. Someone let me know if this would be helpful and/or if this is appropriate for a Naznet event.

[Jon Twitchell]

Personally, I think that such a thing would be excellent! I can't speak for the owners/managers of NazNet... but I bet there would be good interest.

One of the things that I've wondered about is whether or not my treasurer has access to the full reporting form. At the moment, I can see the reporting form (the full calculator), but I don't think she can. Consequently, I reported our income, calculated our percentages, and told her to send payments.

[Jon Twitchell]

Based on Mark's kind correction, here's what this post should say:


*DISCLAIMER* The following method is not approved by GMC. However, I don't work for the GMC. You shouldn't use this method to pay your allocations... but it might be helpful in estimating your allocations in order to build a budget. *DISCLAIMER*

If you need a quick and easy way of estimating WEF (especially if you haven't done any WEF or 10% giving yet), you can do some quick cross-multiplying as follows:



1.055 Church Income
------ = -----------------
.055 WEF
Cross multiply to find WEF. .055*Church Income/1.055 = WEF Allocation.

Or, to simplify further, you can estimate WEF as 5.214% of total income. (.055/1.055 = .0521).

Therefore, a church that expects to raise $100,000 of total Church Income this year can expect to send $5,214 to WEF.

If you intended to overpay at the 5.7% level, you simply replace .055 with .057 and 1.055 with 1.057 respectively:



1.057 Church Income
------ = -----------------
.057 WEF
Again, if you cross-multiply, you find that you can simplify the formula to WEF = .05393*Church Income. Therefore, a church expecting to raise $100,000 this year should plan to send $5,393 to WEF, in order to pay at the 5.7% giving level.

*DISCLAIMER* If you don't understand what I've just typed... please don't use it!!! Just use the great online giving calculator at www.fundingthemission.org (http://www.fundingthemission.org). *DISCLAIMER*

[Kevin Rector]

Yes, that is correct. I was presuming that everyone was logging into the website and viewing the full calculator. However, it only becomes available when one's 2010-2011 church year begins.

If there is interest I'd be willing to schedule a special Naznet Webinar where up to 100 participants could log on with me. I would demonstrate the online calculator using several scenarios. An hour long webinar would allow plenty of time for questions. Someone let me know if this would be helpful and/or if this is appropriate for a Naznet event.

Well, since I saw you live just a few weeks ago, I think I'd skip the webinar, but I'm sure there would be plenty of people who'd be interested in it. Thanks for coming onto Naznet and clarifying some things.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

If there is interest I'd be willing to schedule a special Naznet Webinar where up to 100 participants could log on with me. I would demonstrate the online calculator using several scenarios. An hour long webinar would allow plenty of time for questions. Someone let me know if this would be helpful and/or if this is appropriate for a Naznet event.

I'd be glad to help set something like this up. What do you need from NazNet? I can put a notice at the top of the forums, do a poll for sign up, maybe other things.

[Kevin Rector]

Arggh... I had it right in my head... I typed it wrong.

Thanks!

And I no longer have ability to edit that post. Hmmm...

I fixed the post.

[Ryan Scott]

Well all of this talk has really ruined the new formula for me. Why not just make them straight percentages? It seems stupid to have all sorts of exemptions - that's why our tax process is so confusing. If a congregation can't pay them, then they can't pay them. I think its defeating the purpose to create a system just so congregations can feel good about themselves because they paid 100% rather than 92%. Congregations who don't make it a priority won't be paying no matter what formulas or exemptions we have. It's a step in the right direction, I suppose, but it's not there yet.

[Jon Twitchell]

Well all of this talk has really ruined the new formula for me. Why not just make them straight percentages? It seems stupid to have all sorts of exemptions - that's why our tax process is so confusing. If a congregation can't pay them, then they can't pay them. I think its defeating the purpose to create a system just so congregations can feel good about themselves because they paid 100% rather than 92%. Congregations who don't make it a priority won't be paying no matter what formulas or exemptions we have. It's a step in the right direction, I suppose, but it's not there yet.

Ryan, I'm sorry we ruined the formula for you.

Pay a straight-up 5.5%, and you'll be able to generously overpay WEF.

Which, let me say... is vitally important. I'm afraid I've got my numbers wrong, but we were told at DA that if we don't overpay WEF by $6 Million, then we'll need to bring home 75 missionaries.

[Ryan Scott]

Which, let me say... is vitally important. I'm afraid I've got my numbers wrong, but we were told at DA that if we don't overpay WEF by $6 Million, then we'll need to bring home 75 missionaries.

I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of denominational finance, nor do I want to be the person in charge of it, but I think statements like this are more than a little problematic. Before they get this far, they should be publishing the pay cuts taken by administration and the budget cuts from each department. I know they've been done - I don't want to come off as critical. I worked at HQ - I know there was plenty to be cut - I'd just prefer to see what's been done already rather than be given what amounts to a scare tactic, for lack of a better term.

[Jon Twitchell]

To tack onto the previous post...

Either way you go, since we're dealing with current year income, there's a bit of a circular math problem that takes place.

If there is no exemption for WEF and 10% Specials, then the churches that use Faith Promise (which, I think, are a lot of churches) find themselves in a quandary. Let's say that I have a local church budget of 100,000, but have historically used a Faith Promise budget to specifically (and successfully) pay our WEF allocation. I don't want to complicate things for the person in the pew, so we continue to do the same Faith Promise convention, pledge, etc.

Given that situation, how do I calculate my goal? I tell people that we have to raise $5,500 for WEF... and then I collect the pledges... and the money... and then have to apply a 5.5% to that percentage as well. Suddenly, the $5,500 that I needed to raise turns into $5820.05 (a functional percentage of 5.82% instead of 5.5%). In the course of explaining this, my people simply feel that the General Church isn't satisfied with 5.5%, and think that they're nickel-and-diming us.

If I understand correctly, that's the reason the BGS (and/or General Board) implemented this exemption in September 2009.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

All of that to say... the lesson I'm learning is this

Hey Jon, just a quick tip of the hat on your grasp of all this. Well done.

[Scott Sherwood]

I would love for my new treasurer and financial trustee to be able to access the webinar. If Naznet chooses not to host it, I think our District office would make our gotomeeting.com account available for it.

Re: the motive for allowing WEF & 10% specials to be deducted. I'm sure this happened at the request of our Missions dept. So much of their budgets are dependent on over and above giving that they were concerned how it would affect behavior amongst the masses. They often have to make decisions based on how the majority of people will perceive them rather than strictly based on logic. I disagreed with it at first but now I am coming around. I think it would indeed have a chilling effect on additional missions offerings if they were subject to apportionments. Perhaps it shouldn't, but it would. Now, not only does raising add'l $ for missions not hurt us, it actually helps us by reducing the other budget lines. Not sure how p&b or the schools feel about that . . .

One could make the argument that giving to building funds may now be disincentivized, and they would be correct to a small degree. And I can live very happily ever after with our churches having less of an edifice complex. It will be good for the local mission and the global mission.


By the way, in light of my post earlier in this thread about how our church is handling faith promise in light of the "funding the mission" changes, I need to report our congregation's response. After an initial tally of faith promise cards turned in so far, we are already UP 70% over last year's pledge totals. I think we may end up doubling. And we tend to receive over 100% of pledges when it comes to Faith Promise. I think we have some ornery people who just don't like response cards. For us anyway, it is looking like making Faith Promise entirely "over and above" motivates greater giving on the part of our people. The story is still being written. It remains to be seen whether some unintended consequence of this move will come around and bite us in the budget (for lack of a better word). But we felt it was a matter of obedience for us, so we'll take what comes. I'd rather obey and fail than disobey and succeed. Admittedly I have done plenty of all four in various combinations. I wrote a book on failure, but I couldn't get it published. :)

[Rich Schmidt]

I'd love to have a summary post listing the various districts and what their percentages are (getting back to the original topic of the thread). I'll do it myself tonight, if no one has done it yet by then. :)

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I've moved posts concerning Amending the Funding the Mission formula to it's own thread: http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?758-Amending-the-new-Funding-the-Mission-formula

[Jon Twitchell]

I'd love to have a summary post listing the various districts and what their percentages are (getting back to the original topic of the thread). I'll do it myself tonight, if no one has done it yet by then. :)

How about a Google Docs Spreadsheet? I've started one here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Atk3mMCwFcogdEVZdTRySGR4ejdKQzU1VmVoNHRFa Wc&hl=en

at the moment, anyone with that link has the ability to view and edit. I'll take editing privileges away at some point... just to keep random strangers from editing the work.

[Rich Schmidt]

How about a Google Docs Spreadsheet? I've started one here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Atk3mMCwFcogdEVZdTRySGR4ejdKQzU1VmVoNHRFa Wc&hl=en

at the moment, anyone with that link has the ability to view and edit. I'll take editing privileges away at some point... just to keep random strangers from editing the work.

That's awesome, Jon. It seemed to be in no particular order, so I tried sorting it by DMF. Is that OK? If not, I'm sure you can change it back. :)

Edited to add: I see that you're editing it now. That's pretty freaky, watching you change it on my screen. :)

[Kevin Rector]

Yeah, I just made a small edit and thought it was odd watching someone else editing it at the same time.

[Jon Twitchell]

I've added a "TOTAL" column, and sorted by that. At this point, I think that everything mentioned in this thread is listed. Anyone else should feel free to list here or there. :)

[Craig Laughlin]

Wow, if I had not been convinced before that some districts need to merge this spreadsheet would do it. WAPAC and ORPAC are both very large districts I am guessing that is what allows us to have a much lower percentage. With just these few districts the range from lowest to highest is more than triple.