An Inconvenient Truth by Al Gore

[Wilson L. Deaton]

Landon (my son) and I went and saw Al Gore's film, An Inconvenient Truth.

Before today, I thought I was fairly well up on global warming and its implications. I was wrong.

In my opinion Christians ought to be the best environmentalists there are. Christians should have the best perspective (we don't worship nature, etc., but we are too be good stewards with God's creation).

The film explains how global warming works, it gives data concerning its reality and its projections, it gives some of the causes, it explains and demonstrates some of the consequences, and it gives some starting suggestions about what to do about it.

Gore does make a couple of political jokes and talks briefly about the election results in Florida in the context of it being hard on him but causing him to sort of move back to his earlier interest in the global warming issue. And he mentions the current administrations failure on some environmental issues. However, those things can be overlooked. To discredit the film due to those statements would definitely be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I think everyone, whether Democrat or Republican, Gore fan or not, should see the film. The primary issue is way beyond partisan politics.

Wilson

[Barbara Moulton]

My older daughter saw it and said it was very powerful.

[Bruce Carriker]

Good luck finding ten people (relatives don't count) who care what Al Gore has to say.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

Good luck finding ten people (relatives don't count) who care what Al Gore has to say.

To paraphrase Philip. 1:17-18, "He may preach environmentalism for fame or political gain, etc. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from bad motives or not, stewardship of our planet is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, ..."

Just because Al Gore is trumpeting the cause that doesn't mean the cause isn't valid or important!

Wilson

[Diane Likens]

Wilson! A topic close to my heart! Thank you for this thread and for your insight.

A few weeks ago, an associate of mine referred to me as a "tree hugger". I think he also introduced me to his wife as "Diane Gore". All of this was said (and taken) in jest, of course. And I refer to this particular sportsman as a "Bambi killer".

Seriously, though:

In Genesis, my Bible tells me that God said of His creation, "It is good". To my humble thinking, this means God is pleased with what He made. And what I read into God's instruction to Adam isn't that he was to conquer creation, but to take responsibility for it.

If I am to believe that Adam = Man, then I must believe that I am a decendant of Adam's. I inherited both creation and the responsibility for it through this bloodline. We ALL did. At least that's my understanding.

Granted, Adam ate of the fruit against God's instruction. Adam may well have abused creation (nature), too. I, however, choose not to do either.

[Hans Deventer]

Wow, Wilson! You are one brave soul. My respect!

[Brad Mercer]

Wow, Wilson! You are one brave soul. My respect!

Well, not so far. He's got 38 views and 5 replies, and nothing but praise and agreement so far. ;-)

Brad

[Hans Deventer]

Well, not so far. He's got 38 views and 5 replies, and nothing but praise and agreement so far. ;-)

Brad, I've not been around here as long as you, but I have noticed that it takes courage to say that a Democrat can be saying something truthful or worthwhile. The few NazNetters that vote Democrat are rarely if ever met with an attitude that shows respect for their conscience. The Great Divide indeed.
Which I really regret. In that respect, even 9/11 had its good side, because for once, it indeed showed a UNITED States. You wonder how many Democrats and Republicans there were among the firemen that entered the Twin Towers. Just perhaps, that did not matter.

The unity did not last long, however. Sometimes I wonder, I does not seem like any nation will really conquer the US. Perhaps they need not, and the fall will be initiated from the inside by sheer divisiveness. And that would be sad, for it is much better for the world to have the US as superpower, despite all its human imperfections, than Russia or China. Or the EU for that matter.

[Brad Mercer]

Yes, I was kidding. I'm actually surprised at the response his post has gotten. I do think it is sad that even fellow Nazarenes, whether on NazNet or in a Sunday School class, cannot talk about the things that divide them without what sounds very much like bitterness and hatred, and stating or implying that the other side isn't Christian. The Republicans who actually speak out on this board don't seem as overwhelming a majority to me as they apparently do to most Democrats on the board, but you may be right. At any rate, I don't think we're in any greater danger of collapse from those divisions than ever. Historically it's hard to point to a time that was really different. Denominations split and we had a civil war a hundred and fifty years ago. At one point in the 1860's or 70's, one U.S. Senator beat another nearly to death on the Senate floor over a political question. A vice-president shot and killed a Treasury secretary in the very early days of the republic. Governors stood with local law enforcement troops in face-to-face confrontation with federal troops acting at the behest of the president in the 50's and 60's, as the Nazarene church was split by conflict over codes of ethics and new denominations split off from us.

There were no good old days. The wheat grows up with the tares while the Lord tarries.

Until, of course, global warming kills them both off. ;-)

One thing I do like about what I've heard Gore saying lately, whether a climatic catastrophe is really imminent or not: he's suggesting that there may be solutions that are compatible with continued freedom and prosperity. My biggest hesitancy about embracing the reality of global warming, except for the fact that when I was a kid the best scientists were sure that the next big climate change was going to be an ice age, is that the first politicians to jump on it were suspiciously similar to the politicians who could never bring themselves to disagree with or criticize the Soviet Union, and the first solutions were the same anti-freedom, anti-prosperity policies they'd been pushing for years before the new justification arose. I'll happily postulate any future problems you like, as long as the cure doesn't move us toward increased slavery and poverty now, instead of increased freedom and prosperity, which is what freedom in fact produces, both for the few and for the masses.

Brad

Brad, I've not been around here as long as you, but I have noticed that it takes courage to say that a Democrat can be saying something truthful or worthwhile. The few NazNetters that vote Democrat are rarely if ever met with an attitude that shows respect for their conscience. The Great Divide indeed.
Which I really regret. In that respect, even 9/11 had its good side, because for once, it indeed showed a UNITED States. You wonder how many Democrats and Republicans there were among the firemen that entered the Twin Towers. Just perhaps, that did not matter.

The unity did not last long, however. Sometimes I wonder, I does not seem like any nation will really conquer the US. Perhaps they need not, and the fall will be initiated from the inside by sheer divisiveness. And that would be sad, for it is much better for the world to have the US as superpower, despite all its human imperfections, than Russia or China. Or the EU for that matter.

[Rich Hudson]

I loved the personal note on how his family got out of the tobacco business after learning of the high cost (sisters death). It was an interesting aside, yet it speaks of the high cost of doing nothing when ice is melting, air is dirty, oil is spilled, and we blissfully continue living as though resources are bottomless.

I'm happy to be one of ten, or even one of fewer than that.

Awesome movie ... far, far better than the disappointment that was the Da Vinci Code.

[Cindi Hammons]

I was talking to a family member this week about purchasing a Hybrid vehicle. He stated that he didn't think it was worth it because the money spent on the vehicle would not be recouped by savings on fuel costs. It was interesting that he saw the importance of the Hybrid in saving money. I told him that I saw the importance of a Hybrid in the fact that it would use less petroleum! Even though money is a good motivator, it was not the important factor to me in wanting to purchase a Hybrid.

I think that many Christians use the idea that God gave the earth to man to have dominion over...so that we can do anything we want with it...which, of course, I believe to be wrong.

Cindi H.

[Ron Davis]

I was talking to a family member this week about purchasing a Hybrid vehicle. He stated that he didn't think it was worth it because the money spent on the vehicle would not be recouped by savings on fuel costs. It was interesting that he saw the importance of the Hybrid in saving money. I told him that I saw the importance of a Hybrid in the fact that it would use less petroleum! Even though money is a good motivator, it was not the important factor to me in wanting to purchase a Hybrid.

I think that many Christians use the idea that God gave the earth to man to have dominion over...so that we can do anything we want with it...which, of course, I believe to be wrong.

Cindi H.

I have been considering purchasing a motor scooter in order to burn less fuel. My kids tell me that it would definitely not be cool to see me riding around town on one.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Brad, I've not been around here as long as you, but I have noticed that it takes courage to say that a Democrat can be saying something truthful or worthwhile. The few NazNetters that vote Democrat are rarely if ever met with an attitude that shows respect for their conscience. The Great Divide indeed.

From my point of view as a moderator I have taken shots from both sides of the liberal/conservative exchanges and know that it comes with the job description.

While I am firmly on the conservative side of most political issues myself, I have to admit that the most heated responses I have gotten based on my efforts to keep things civil have come from those with whom I am in nearly 100% agreement.

It is a pretty good lesson in humility to have people who are "on your side" be the ones who are the most angry with you for trying to keep peace.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

.... I told him that I saw the importance of a Hybrid in the fact that it would use less petroleum! Even though money is a good motivator, it was not the important factor to me in wanting to purchase a Hybrid.

On our way home from the film I told my son that all my life I've been told/talked to, etc., to conserve energy because it saves money. I told him that my philosophy and Robin's (my wife) was that I've been willing to pay to keep my house the temp I prefer. But this film made it clear that what you said is right. It's not about the savings. It's about the environment.

Will I put my money where my mouth is?

Here's a start. I went on-line last night with my energy company and signed up to have my energy come from renewable sources. It will include a surcharge because that energy currently costs them more to produce so it will mean an extra $12 or so a month. My home will now be 48% wind-powered, 42% bio-mass (landfill gas reclamation), 8% hydroelectric, with the rest coming from solar power. I hope to cover the increase with less usage, etc. (My local power company's "standard" power is mostly coal. They burn about 100 train cars of coal every day. Now they burn just a little bit less.)

Here's a link for anyone (in USA) to see if green power is available in their area:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/greenpower/buying/buying_power.shtml

Here is an information site tied to the film: www.climatecrisis.net

Wilson

[Cindi Hammons]

Wilson,

Ask your electric company if they offer electric water heaters for rent. Our heater is huge, only heats the water at night and is so insulated that it stays hot all day. We save over $15/mo. in electricity and the unit rent is $15.99...so we come out even, but use less electricity.

Our electric provider is AEP and they are not on the list of providing green-power. Too bad. I would have signed up.

Cindi H.

[Ian Gentles]

Well UK summer tempratures have gone over a hundred for second time in three years, this is certainly unusual for us.

[Bruce Carriker]

To paraphrase Philip. 1:17-18, "He may preach environmentalism for fame or political gain, etc. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from bad motives or not, stewardship of our planet is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, ..."

Just because Al Gore is trumpeting the cause that doesn't mean the cause isn't valid or important!

Wilson


Wilson,

I think what he has to say is very important. I was simply saying that 50+ percent of the American people immediately dismiss him because he's Al Gore. And even some of his own supporters are tired of him.

[Terri Knoll]

http://www.bloodwatermission.com/index.php?

and all I got was a tshirt :rolleyes:

[Terri Knoll]

Landon (my son) and I went and saw Al Gore's film, An Inconvenient Truth.

Before today, I thought I was fairly well up on global warming and its implications. I was wrong.

In my opinion Christians ought to be the best environmentalists there are. Christians should have the best perspective (we don't worship nature, etc., but we are too be good stewards with God's creation).

The film explains how global warming works, it gives data concerning its reality and its projections, it gives some of the causes, it explains and demonstrates some of the consequences, and it gives some starting suggestions about what to do about it.

Gore does make a couple of political jokes and talks briefly about the election results in Florida in the context of it being hard on him but causing him to sort of move back to his earlier interest in the global warming issue. And he mentions the current administrations failure on some environmental issues. However, those things can be overlooked. To discredit the film due to those statements would definitely be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I think everyone, whether Democrat or Republican, Gore fan or not, should see the film. The primary issue is way beyond partisan politics.

Wilson


how fun to share with your 15 year old son! the last movie I went to with Mandy is the Devil wears Prada lol
I recommend that movie too :basic05

[Royce Chesser]

If global warming will get rid of the cold winters in Ohio, then I say bring it on!

Personally, I don't care if someone is a democrat or republican if they have a true biblical worldview, and really live it out in all aspects of their life.

As far as Al Gore goes, it's no wonder he doesn't have credablity with 50% of the people. After all, he invented the Internet...NOT! If he can't get a fact like that straight and tell the truth, then as far as I am concened anything he has to say about global warming puts him in the same category as Chicken Little.

[Gina Stevenson]

If global warming will get rid of the cold winters in Ohio, then I say bring it on!

Include Michigan in that ....

gina, a former desert-dweller who misses winter warmth ! ;)

[Stan Hall]

It's too bad that most of the rhetoric about global warming is political, not scientific.
Here are some facts.
From 1900 to 2000 the average global temperature rose about 0.5º, nothing to get excited about. Most of the fuel usage including SUV's took place in the latter half of the century. Most of the temperature increase took place between 1900 and 1940.
The average global temperature increase from 1998 to 2006 has been 0.0º
CO2 has also been increasing, but again in the latter half of the century. There is evidence that rising temperatures may increase atmospheric CO2, not the other way around.
Parts of the Antarctic peninsula are melting. Of course it's surrounded by water. Meanwhile, the center of the Antarctic continent is getting slightly colder and increasing in ice.
The earth has been going through cooling and warming trends throughout its history; it has nothing to do with man's activities.
Mars and Jupiter are getting warmer. Jupiter has no vehicles and Mars has only two and they're solar powered.
In the 1970s, pundits were claiming that civilization would be destroyed by the coming ice age. Their solution? A global alliance to control and restrict business and industry which was causing the problem. Now they offer the same solution for the opposite percieved problem.
95% if the greenhouse effect on this planet is caused by water vapor, not CO2. The increase in CO2 will have a negligible effect on the greenhouse effect. The greatest effect it will have is an increase in plant life. In fact it may be the best thing that could happen for the rain forests.
The output of the sun has increased slightly in the last century. What does Al Gore plan to do about that?

Here is a link to some articles on the subject:
http://www.jamesphogan.com/bb/content/120405-0.shtml

Stan

[Wilson L. Deaton]

Here are some facts.
From 1900 to 2000 the average global temperature rose about 0.5º, nothing to get excited about.

Your info is outdated:

This info from NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Science:

Global warming is now 0.6°C in the past three decades and 0.8°C in the past century. It is no longer correct to say that "most global warming occurred before 1940". More specifically, there was slow global warming, with large fluctuations, over the century up to 1975 and subsequent rapid warming of almost 0.2°C per decade.

Recent warming coincides with rapid growth of human-made greenhouse gases. Climate models show that the rate of warming is consistent with expectations (5). The observed rapid warming thus gives urgency to discussions about how to slow greenhouse gas emissions (6).

This info from EPA:
"Studies that combine land and sea measurements have generally estimated that global temperatures have warmed 0.5-1.0°F (0.3-0.6°C) in the last century. About two-thirds of this warming took place between 1900 and 1940. Global temperatures declined slightly from the 1940s through the 1970s; but have risen more rapidly during the last 25 years than in the period before 1940."

The average global temperature increase from 1998 to 2006 has been 0.0º

This statement is based on the data that 2005 was virtually identical to 1998. However, note this also from the Goddard site:

The highest global surface temperature in more than a century of instrumental data was recorded in the 2005 calendar year in the GISS annual analysis. However, the error bar on the data implies that 2005 is practically in a dead heat with 1998, the warmest previous year.
....
Record warmth in 2005 is notable, because global temperature has not received any boost from a tropical El Niño this year. The prior record year, 1998, on the contrary, was lifted 0.2°C above the trend line by the strongest El Niño of the past century.

Wilson

[Bruce Carriker]

As far as Al Gore goes, it's no wonder he doesn't have credablity with 50% of the people. After all, he invented the Internet...NOT! If he can't get a fact like that straight and tell the truth, then as far as I am concened anything he has to say about global warming puts him in the same category as Chicken Little.

Yes, Royce, and when you mindlessly repeat misleading Bush campaign blather like this, it puts you in the Chicken Little category as well. If you're interested, here's a bit of the truth about about what Al Gore really said:

In a March 1999 interview with Wolf Blitzer, Gore said, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Taken in the context of the interview, Gore was claiming that as a congressman and Senator, he was an early supporter of the system we enjoy today. He was not claiming to have patented the computer technology behind the Internet, though that's how Bush's campaign propagandists , manipulated the quotation. Hence the disingenuous substitution (or outright lie, whichever it was) of "inventing" for the words Gore actually used.

Now, as for what Gore really said, and whether there was anything to it:

Vincent Cerf, formerly a senior vice president with MCI/Worldcom: "The Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by Al Gore in his current role (vice-president at the time of the quote) and in his earlier role as Senator."

Marc Andreesen, inventor of the Mosaic web browser, credits Gore with making his work possible. He received a federal grant through the High Performance Computing Act, which Gore sponsored while in the Senate.

Dave Ferber, University of Pennsylvania: "Without Al Gore the Internet would not be where it is today."

Joseph E. Traub, a computer science professor at Columbia University: "...[Gore] was perhaps the first political leader to grasp the importance of networking the country."

Still, Royce, you demonstrate the point I was trying to make in my earlier response to Wilson: Half the country pays no attention to Al Gore, regardless of whether what he says has any merit or not.

[Hans Deventer]

Bruce, good story and indeed, an inconvenient truth :basic05

[Mark Bolerjack]

Created...Invented

What's the difference?

[Bruce Carriker]

Created...Invented

What's the difference?

Well, for one there's the simple fact that the GOP campaign propagandists lied about the word that was actually used. Perhaps you should ask them why they felt compelled to change "creation" to "invented".

But that really begs the questions, which is, and should always have been, "In what context did Gore say this?" But of course, putting it in context defeats the purpose the campaign propagandists had in mind, so they left that part out.

[Stan Hall]

Just my humble opinion. I would trust the data presented by independent scientists over the EPA or those organizations funded by it. They have a clear agenda. Creating a need for themselves to keep the funding coming in.
Admitting there's not really a problem dries up the funding. Yelling crisis and fear mongering brings in the bucks. It also allows politicians to wrest more control over our lives.

It's true that the world appears to be getting slightly warmer. Warming and cooling has been taking place for thousands of years. It's a perfectly natural process. It's not true that it's caused by CO2. It's very unlikely that it's caused by man. And it's very unlikely that we can or should do something about it. I suggest we do what man has always done. Adapt.

[Hans Deventer]

It's true that the world appears to be getting slightly warmer. Warming and cooling has been taking place for thousands of years. It's a perfectly natural process. It's not true that it's caused by CO2. It's very unlikely that it's caused by man. And it's very unlikely that we can or should do something about it. I suggest we do what man has always done. Adapt.

Stan, with all due respect, but I put a little more faith in the statements of the meteorologists of the Royal Dutch Meteorological Institute, than in the words of Stan Hall ON THIS SUBJECT!

To me, denying the truth of the human influence on the climate is merely a matter of putting one's head in the sand and it is, for all I can see, very much a political statement more than anything else. I'm kind of like Brad in this area, just coming from the other side.

Of course, living at sea level makes me a little less indifferent too.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

Just my humble opinion. I would trust the data presented by independent scientists over the EPA or those organizations funded by it. They have a clear agenda. Creating a need for themselves to keep the funding coming in.
Admitting there's not really a problem dries up the funding. Yelling crisis and fear mongering brings in the bucks. It also allows politicians to wrest more control over our lives.

It's true that the world appears to be getting slightly warmer. Warming and cooling has been taking place for thousands of years. It's a perfectly natural process. It's not true that it's caused by CO2. It's very unlikely that it's caused by man. And it's very unlikely that we can or should do something about it. I suggest we do what man has always done. Adapt.

Stan,

It seems we are at an empasse on this issue. I believe one set of scientists and you believe another. I don't like being wrong but I would happily make an exception this time.

Let's approach from another angle. For the sake of discussion let's suppose you are right and the increasing CO2 levels aren't causing global warming: Wouldn't it still be good for us to get higher MPGs from our cars, be less dependent on oil, burn less fossil fuel for our energy, reduce what we put in landfill, convert the gasses that come off what does go into our landfills to fuel, use appliances that consume less electricity, etc.?

Lastly, what in your opinion, is the downside of us trying to lower our CO2 emissions?

Wilson

[Bruce Carriker]

Wilson,

Those things you suggest, if implemented as public policy, might infringe of the right of businesses to pursuit profits at any cost, which is their God-given right. And it might infringe on the rights of individuals to do whatever they want with their money...another God-given right.

St. Thomas Jefferson defines those rights in the holiest of documents, The Declaration of Independence. The right to pursue "life, liberty, and happiness" is only a poor paraphrase of Thomas Paine's "life, liberty, and property". Property is a holy thing, certainly moreso than the well-being of fellow humans or good stewardship of the earth, and ought not to be messed with.

[Bruce Carriker]

Stan,

You say you reject the EPA findings because they have an agenda? Can you tell me where this next line comes from?

"Promoting an American public policy based on individual liberty, limited government, free markets, and peaceful international relations."

That's the self-proclaimed agenda of the CATO Institute, one of the organizations whose "unbiased" work is cited on the Hogan website you reference.

Let's all be honest for minute, okay? We accept the scientists whose agenda supports our own pre-conceived notions and convictions. There are few, if any, "unbiased" researchers left...particularly on the global warming issue.

[BobHunt]

I dont know what all he says, but persoanlly I think by the time all those ice bergs melt, we will all be in our eternal abode.

[Bruce Carriker]

I dont know what all he says, but persoanlly I think by the time all those ice bergs melt, we will all be in our eternal abode.

So, do I understand this to be your position: As long as it doesn't affect us, we can just leave the problems to our grandkids and great-grandkids?

[Hans Deventer]

So, do I understand this to be your position: As long as it doesn't affect us, we can just leave the problems to our grandkids and great-grandkids?

Looking at politicians, you'd say that is what most of them consider their constituency to think.

[Kim Hersey]

I'm silly for entering this... :fav01 but do you really think it's a "God-given" right for me to do whatever I want with my money, or to make exorbitant profit at the expense of others?

Seems to me that God's standards are pretty much in opposition to both of those things... why years of jubilee, why compassion for the poor, why "give freely"?

I suppose you may be saying that it's our right to sin. If that's what you're saying, I agree. Or, if what you are saying is that they are "USAmerican-given" rights, that's another story... one worthy of conversation, but a different conversation.

Did you really mean it the way I interpreted it?

Kim:gen08

[Wilson L. Deaton]

So, do I understand this to be your position: As long as it doesn't affect us, we can just leave the problems to our grandkids and great-grandkids?

Bruce,

On Bob's behalf, I'm pretty sure that is not his position. I think Bob was referencing the Second Coming. Bob is saying that by the time global warming ruins our environment no one, not even our grandkids, will have to worry about it because everyone will be in either heaven or hell.

Furthermore, I think Bob's statement was simply an affirmation of his belief in a sooner-rather-than-later Second Coming. I don't think he was trying to claim that a soon Second Coming is a license for recklessness with our planet.

Wilson

[BobHunt]

and, I think there are other items that could be more of a threat, like any new viruses or even the terrible way people drive in our congested streets. There seems to be a lot of things that are closer to home that could kill us a lot faster. (just some thoughts, maybe they dont make sense)

[Gina Stevenson]

"Love is not what you say, but what you do. A bell is not a bell until you ring it, a song is not a song until you sing it, love is not love until you share it."--J. Hagee

Think the Rev Hagee was paraphrasing someone else; here's the full quote (know it, but decided to look it up, to double-check original author):

A bell's not a bell till you ring it.
A song's not a song till you sing it.
Love in your heart wasn't put there to stay.
Love isn't love 'till you give it away.
Oscar Hammerstein (Sound of Music's song writer)

THO'T it was someone else -- tho't I'd read "Geo. Bernard Shaw" somewhere -- so we were both off a bit, unless Oscar was quoting him, too, without credits. ;o)

[BobHunt]

thats very understandable, if it is the author of Sound Of Music! I'll have to change the credits (sounds like the end of a movie huh?)
I dont know if you have ever listened to Rev Hagee, we just heard his son Matthew preach tonight, and really enjoyed it.

[Gina Stevenson]

thats very understandable, if it is the author of Sound Of Music! I'll have to change the credits (sounds like the end of a movie huh?)
I dont know if you have ever listened to Rev Hagee, we just heard his son Matthew preach tonight, and really enjoyed it.

Yes, John Hagee has come up with some "good ones" over the years ... a different sense of humor. However, he's seemed to be yelling more in recent years, so I can't listen to a full sermon by him ... I just can't abide "yelling preachers." May be because of growing up around much yelling, but I just cannot stand that sort of preaching that some people seem to really like. Also have heard his son ... not bad.

One thing that family does do well together ... sing. ;)

[Stan Hall]

Wilson, I agree with you completely about conserving resources. We recycle and compost etc. And getting better mileage is certainly a good thing. The only downside of reducing CO2 is that in many cases the process of doing so are extremely expensive which hurts the economy, our prosperity and the overall standard of living; all for the purpose of solving a problem that isn't really a problem. But where there are ways that don't sacrifice all that, then great! Let's go for it!

Bruce, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't reject the EPA's pronouncements just because they have an agenda. I suspect them because of the agenda. I reject them because I have seen evidence that refutes their claims.
When we read conflicting claims we must each try to decide which is more trustworthy. And we may severally reach differing conclusions.

Stan

[Hans Deventer]

Edwin and I saw the film today. Impressive. Never thought much about Al Gore, the man didn't appeal to me. But he seems to have become a man with a mission.

Some lines stuck. Especially the statement that what is happening now, hasn't happened in 650.000 years, a time during which we had 7 ice ages. I'm no longer buying the "it's all within the limits of natural changes" line.

And I like how he says that there is still time to change, and change for the better, both regarding the environment and indeed, economics. The example of car manufacturers was amazing.

So it basically leaves you with several options: the man is a great liar, a fraud or at least, if he's sincere, totally misguided, or he is actually right. It seems to me the issue is important enough to find out which of the two is right.

Kind of like Lewis wrote on Jesus: the man is God or he's a lunatic. He can't claim to be God and be "a great teacher".

I'd say this is a good issue to become a "one issue voter" for. For if we continue to rape the earth like we do, pretty soon there will be no other issues left.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

Edwin and I saw the film today. Impressive. Never thought much about Al Gore, the man didn't appeal to me. But he seems to have become a man with a mission.


I wasn't previously a Gore fan, either. This issue, however, is too important for people to disregard due to the politics.

For those who haven't seen it yet, An Inconvenient Truth , is due for DVD release on November 21st.

Wilson

[Barbara Moulton]

For if we continue to rape the earth like we do, pretty soon there will be no other issues left.

There is a powerful commerical airing right now. A man is standing on the railway tracks and a train is coming up fast behind him.

He talks about the fact that he knows the world's environment is in trouble but it won't really be a problem for 30 years. That won't effect him.

So he steps out of the way of the train.

And then you see the little girl standing right behind him.

[Hans Deventer]

There is a powerful commercial airing right now. A man is standing on the railway tracks and a train is coming up fast behind him.

He talks about the fact that he knows the world's environment is in trouble but it won't really be a problem for 30 years. That won't effect him.

Gore gave an interesting example in this regard. When the North American icecap melted, its way to the Atlantic Ocean was blocked. When that dam finally broke, in only 10 years so much ice water streamed into the Atlantic that it changed the course of the Gulfstream, creating another ice age in Europe. This happened in only 10 years time!

And one thing I know, I live about 1 yard above sea level. Melting ice is a real threat for me.