Religious Tattoos: Judeo-Christian Body Art

[Larry Brincefield]

http://www.religioustattoos.net/index.php

I'd be curious to know what other Nazarenes think about "Christian tattoos".:confused:

[Shea Zellweger]

http://www.religioustattoos.net/index.php

I'd be curious to know what other Nazarenes think about "Christian tattoos".:confused:

I'm a fan... Hoping to get some body art of my own some day. Why do you ask?

[Larry Brincefield]

I'm not opposed to it, but I know there are many who would be (and some quote Scripture to back it up). If I were to get one, (probably won't) I would go with a religious tattoo somewhere not real noticeable. I still want to be able to have a profession appearance. (none on the eyes, fingers, face, etc)

[Shea Zellweger]

I'm not opposed to it, but I know there are many who would be (and some quote Scripture to back it up).

Yup... sort of a poor understanding of what tattoos involved at the time. Terrible idea, really :)

[Hans Deventer]

Larry, I'm not one who wants them myself, but I see them as a form of artistic expression of one's faith. That in itself is fine with me. I think the Scriptures on this topic deal with the worship of pagan deities. That's obviously not the intention of Christian tattoo's.

[Benjamin Burch]

http://www.religioustattoos.net/index.php

I'd be curious to know what other Nazarenes think about "Christian tattoos".:confused:

I have no opinion on the subject... (see my avatar) :tongue:

[Greg Farra]

Personally, I don't like tatoos at all. I think it makes our natural appearance less appealing. Don't take this personal, I just don't find them attractive. Other people do, but that's their preference.

[Mike Schutz]

While I would not do it myself, and do not consider them attractive, I have always seen it as more of a generational issue.
I do not see this as a spiritual issue at all, but more a matter of personal expression. If one chooses to express their faith in this way, I have no problem with it.

A few years ago, when I was directing the summer ministry teams for one of our institutions, I received a phone call from a district superintendent. He was upset that a member of the team we had sent to his district's teen camp had a tattoo on his leg. It was visible when the team member wore shorts. The DS upbraided me for having "this kind of person" on the team, and about the negative influence he would have on the teens. He further stated that this reflected negatively on the college, and supported the view of liberality many on his district had of the college. I informed the DS that this young man was from his district, and had arrived on campus as a freshman with the tattoo.

[Jon Bemis]

A few years ago, when I was directing the summer ministry teams for one of our institutions, I received a phone call from a district superintendent. He was upset that a member of the team we had sent to his district's teen camp had a tattoo on his leg. It was visible when the team member wore shorts. The DS upbraided me for having "this kind of person" on the team, and about the negative influence he would have on the teens. He further stated that this reflected negatively on the college, and supported the view of liberality many on his district had of the college. I informed the DS that this young man was from his district, and had arrived on campus as a freshman with the tattoo.

Another stark example of why so many have formed a negative impression of the church. My guess is that DS thought he was defending "holiness." I have no problem with someone having a tattoo. My son has one and I really like it. His is an orthodox cross and says (in NT Greek) "I want to know." It is on his chest, so is not really seen by too many.

[Ryan Scott]

I have a "Christian" tattoo. I got it when I was 21 in college. Growing up my mom was always sure to point out people with tattoos and tell me "don't ever get one of those, because they're with you the rest of your life." Ultimately this loving manipulation actually made the case for me to get my tattoo. During a point in my life when I was struggling with how committed I would be to Christ, I had "icthus" in greek tattooed on my ankle as a way to "have it with me the rest of my life." At the very least, if I was living a life less than ideal, I would be constantly reminded of the truth I knew.

A few years ago I had an interesting conversation with a classmate at seminary whose OT exegesis I trust quite a bit. He talked about Leviticus 19 - which contains a short little verse - "You shall not make any gashes in your flesh for the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord." He admitted it belongs with a number of other verses which cannot be taken completely at face value and must be judged in context. From his perspective, there are two context issues - the first being a separation from the surrounding culture and pagan worship practices. God's people should not do things in worship that other religions do as a means of separating worship of YHWH from worship of other gods.

His second context point was that God reserves the right to decide how God is worshipped. We have guidelines within which we have freedom to express our worship, but clearly God has marked some actions as off limits (human sacrifice, etc). One of those specific prohibitions is gashing or cutting the flesh - something which is prohibited specifically in this same verse. From his perspective the decorating of the body in this way is something God makes off limits for worship.

Basically, he has no problems with tattoos in general, but specifically Christian tattoos, used as a means of worship are a problem for him.

I don't regret my tattoo, it was a really good experience for me at the time. I wouldn't do it now for a number of reasons, but this perspective on worship, while I've not completely adopted it, does present an interesting thing over which to mull.

[Wilson Deaton]

... I received a phone call from a district superintendent..

Shame on that D.S. :mad:

Wilson

[Shea Zellweger]

While I would not do it myself, and do not consider them attractive, I have always seen it as more of a generational issue.
I do not see this as a spiritual issue at all, but more a matter of personal expression. If one chooses to express their faith in this way, I have no problem with it.

A few years ago, when I was directing the summer ministry teams for one of our institutions, I received a phone call from a district superintendent. He was upset that a member of the team we had sent to his district's teen camp had a tattoo on his leg. It was visible when the team member wore shorts. The DS upbraided me for having "this kind of person" on the team, and about the negative influence he would have on the teens. He further stated that this reflected negatively on the college, and supported the view of liberality many on his district had of the college. I informed the DS that this young man was from his district, and had arrived on campus as a freshman with the tattoo.

Along the same lines... in 2004 when I was starting to look into schools, the ENC pamphlet I received had a cross-shaped cutout on the front with a drawing of a Celtic Cross displayed on the next page. When you opened it up, you found the drawing was actually a tattoo on a man's shoulder (I think the man in question also served on the SGA that year). I thought it was pretty cool, but there were grumblings on the district about the "message" such an advertisement sent to Nazarene Youth.

[Jim Abrams]

Not at all fond of tattoos myself and if asked to advise on the subject I would most likely (and always have) advise against it for a number of reasons. I advise against them in the same way I advise against overeating, reckless thrill seeking, unproductive laziness, ill advised entertainment, excessive body building. Although I generally see human beings as work in progress I am convinced that God does a really good job with them. I'm all for acceptable grooming and hygiene and such I just find that tattoos draw unnecessary attention to an individual tend to flaunt a freedom we have in Christ.

Don't get me wrong. I know this is not true for everyone. Indeed, I have very good and trusted spiritual advisers, loved ones and friends who sport the fish, the cross, even the name of their spouse and their military service on their bodies. I ride my Harley with a burly bunch who often try to talk me into growing my hair long and getting a "Jesus Tat." After all the talk at the end of the day I just don't see the need for one and in my opinion the cons mostly out weigh the pros.

[Rich Schmidt]

http://www.religioustattoos.net/index.php

I'd be curious to know what other Nazarenes think about "Christian tattoos".:confused:

I don't have a problem with them, or with tattoos of non-religious themes. We have several in our church with tattoos, but I don't have any. Styles change, and I've never been very stylish, so I'm sure I would end up getting myself permanently marked with something that (1) isn't really in style now and (2) will look even more out of style in the future.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Along the same lines... in 2004 when I was starting to look into schools, the ENC pamphlet I received had a cross-shaped cutout on the front with a drawing of a Celtic Cross displayed on the next page. When you opened it up, you found the drawing was actually a tattoo on a man's shoulder (I think the man in question also served on the SGA that year). I thought it was pretty cool, but there were grumblings on the district about the "message" such an advertisement sent to Nazarene Youth.

It wasn't even an ENC student. It was however, a former president's son and a good friend of mine. I like his tattoo.

[Shea Zellweger]

I don't have a problem with them, or with tattoos of non-religious themes. We have several in our church with tattoos, but I don't have any. Styles change, and I've never been very stylish, so I'm sure I would end up getting myself permanently marked with something that (1) isn't really in style now and (2) will look even more out of style in the future.

I'd say step one in selecting a tattoo is to absolutely not do it on the grounds of it being in style :). The tattoo I intend to get means something to me, and the only time people would see it is if I were swimming, or playing pickup sports on the "skins" side, so I'm not to concerned about what others will think.

[Susan Unger]

I have a non spiritual reason - I am not into pain. Whenever I see someone with a tattoo I always wonder how on earth could they stand the pain?

[Rich Schmidt]

I'd say step one in selecting a tattoo is to absolutely not do it on the grounds of it being in style :). The tattoo I intend to get means something to me, and the only time people would see it is if I were swimming, or playing pickup sports on the "skins" side, so I'm not to concerned about what others will think.

Even with something as simple as a word or name, there are font choices, size, color, placement, etc. And these things are subject to styles that come and go.

If I ever get a tattoo, it will be something meaningful to me, too. But I'm not likely to ever get one. :)

[Larry Brincefield]

I appreciate the good feedback on this question!! As a Youth Pastor (Ordained Elder) I probably would not get one simply because of how people in the church would perceive it. For example, if I got a visible tattoo, I fear it would scandalize my church people. They would (most of them) be accepting of a "sinner" with tattoos. But if I got one, they would faint (at least I think they would). For example, there are those who think I am rebellious because I don't wear a suit and tie when I preach for the evening service (I do for the morning service, but wear a polo for evening service). I would like to feel totally free to wear what I want for any service, and get a tattoo (if I wanted...not sure that I do, but I would like to make the decision based on how I want to express myself, instead of worrying how it would be received). Anyway, sorry to go on so long, I appreciate all the comments (both pro and con).

[Todd Erickson]

The mother of the most interesting man in the world bears the tatoo "son".

Food for thought.

:P

[Benjamin Burch]

I have a non spiritual reason - I am not into pain. Whenever I see someone with a tattoo I always wonder how on earth could they stand the pain?

They don't hurt too bad. Feels kinda like someone pinching you... incessantly. It's more irritating than painful.

[David Parker]

They are so prevalent at our church that I almost feel 'special' because I don't have one. I think all of our pastors (male & female) have tattoos, some of them rather elaborate. I rather like them. I've always assumed I'd get one someday, but so far just haven't gotten around to it. Of our kids, only our daughter has some.

As to Leviticus, even if you don't accept the pagan worship connection, does it not belong with the other Levitical rules against trimming your beard, touching a menstruating woman, not eating pork, etc.?

[Susan Unger]

They don't hurt too bad. Feels kinda like someone pinching you... incessantly. It's more irritating than painful.

Ugh - no thanks! I have very sensitive nerve endings. Am very ticklish, too. When I had to get three dots tattooed on me for radiation treatment I laughed myself silly from just the THOUGHT of someone touching me with that little stylus. I was the talk of the hospital cuz of it.

I don't even have pierced ears for this reason.

[Ryan Scott]

As to Leviticus, even if you don't accept the pagan worship connection, does it not belong with the other Levitical rules against trimming your beard, touching a menstruating woman, not eating pork, etc.?

That was my argument, although his response was relatively persuasive that it's more about God controlling the forms through which we worship God. There are things we cannot do as worship to God - my friend put tattoos in that category, which, I have to admit is a decently astute interpretation of that particular passage. I'm not sure I hold to it completely, but it has to be a consideration.

The more ironic thing is that his interpretation allows for any tattoo so long as its not specifically an act of worship (or, you know, in violation of other Christ-like living).

[Ryan Scott]

I have a non spiritual reason - I am not into pain. Whenever I see someone with a tattoo I always wonder how on earth could they stand the pain?

There are places where, I'm told, it can be quite painful, but mine wasn't too bad. I think a good tattoo artist can go a long way towards minimizing the pain.

[Shea Zellweger]

That was my argument, although his response was relatively persuasive that it's more about God controlling the forms through which we worship God. There are things we cannot do as worship to God - my friend put tattoos in that category, which, I have to admit is a decently astute interpretation of that particular passage. I'm not sure I hold to it completely, but it has to be a consideration.

The more ironic thing is that his interpretation allows for any tattoo so long as its not specifically an act of worship (or, you know, in violation of other Christ-like living).

I think your friend's exegesis is valid, but I also think it's no longer applicable unless he holds that we should follow the entire Levitical prescription for worship, sacrifices and all. I tend to connect the "make no mark on your flesh" command with health codes rather than worship codes, though it is in such a place where it could be either. If it's a worship code, then it's about how we should appear in order to be distinguished as followers of God, and the beard command in the previous verse applies. If it's a health code, it's understandable since contemporary prison tats are more sanitary than tattoos were at the time.

[Billy Cox]

There are places where, I'm told, it can be quite painful, but mine wasn't too bad. I think a good tattoo artist can go a long way towards minimizing the pain.

My wife was watching a TV show about life in prison and one of the inmates had a large swastika tattooed on his neck. (the front, not the back) Now that's commitment to a cause!

[Benjamin Burch]

There are places where, I'm told, it can be quite painful, but mine wasn't too bad. I think a good tattoo artist can go a long way towards minimizing the pain.

My next will be on my ribcage. Everyone tells me it will be immensely painful.

[Larry Brincefield]

Maybe if I tattoo the Nazarene logo on my arm, the church people wouldn't mind so much. :smilies1404:

[Ryan Scott]

I think your friend's exegesis is valid, but I also think it's no longer applicable unless he holds that we should follow the entire Levitical prescription for worship, sacrifices and all.

That's a bit too broad. He'd argue, and I agree, you can't just simply throw all the Levitical laws out because they're outdated. They have to be judged on an individual basis taking into consideration the background and likely purpose of each. There's also a big difference between "dos" and donts" here. Again, I don't know that I entirely buy into the individual analysis of this specific verse, but it does seem to be clearly associated with worship. My question is really how the life and teaching of Jesus Christ affects this item. It's not cut and dry, which is really the most important thing to me in this instance.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

This is such a non-essential issue to me that I'm not even sure what to say other than that.

[Shea Zellweger]

That's a bit too broad. He'd argue, and I agree, you can't just simply throw all the Levitical laws out because they're outdated. They have to be judged on an individual basis taking into consideration the background and likely purpose of each. There's also a big difference between "dos" and donts" here.

I agree with this. But the specific tattoo law is an instruction on how we should go about worshiping God. Even if we limit it to ways that we should not worship God, there are plenty of examples of worship "don'ts" in Leviticus that we ignore. So although the exegesis may be accurate, I don't see how a verse about not tattooing your body gets special treatment over a command about eating food sacrificed to idols (http://www.rationalchristianity.net/food_idols.html).

[James Diggs]

I think your friend's exegesis is valid, but I also think it's no longer applicable unless he holds that we should follow the entire Levitical prescription for worship, sacrifices and all.

I'm not sure I am comfortable saying this passage of scripture (or any) is "no longer applicable" based on contingencies like that he follow the whole Levitical code or not. Though I would think that there would need to be some consistancy in how navigate these kind's of passages.

I think in the spirit of "binding and loosing" verses like these may not apply in the same way today that it would have to the ancient Jew- but this does not mean these passages have no implication in the life of follower of Jesus today. I am not saying that the right interpretation of how the passage should be applied today either forbids or allows tattoos- but however regardless if the passage is either bound or loosed, I would think something relevant about those verses must still apply in some way.

I think Ryan's friend applied the scripture in an appropriate way based on his exegesis and I find this interesting compared to a friend of mine who is a Pastor in a different tradition who has tattoos and says he thinks Christians should only get "Christian" tattoos. Ryan's friend seems to come to the opposite interpretation and says you can have a tattoo but it can't be used as "worship". So Christian's could have tattoos but not "Christian" tattoos.

So I guess my question is in regarding interpretations that loose the use of tattoos, what can we still take away from these Levitical codes to value them and not just they are "no longer applicable"? What can these passage still teach us and how can they be relevant for us even when we feel they do not apply the same way in our culture?

I guess I just don't want to just out right dismiss these passages even if we don't follow them the same way.

[James Diggs]

looks like you guys started to dig into some of my questions while I was typing.


I agree with this. But the specific tattoo law is an instruction on how we should go about worshiping God. Even if we limit it to ways that we should not worship God, there are plenty of examples of worship "don'ts" in Leviticus that we ignore. So although the exegesis may be accurate, I don't see how a verse about not tattooing your body gets special treatment over a command about eating food sacrificed to idols (http://www.rationalchristianity.net/food_idols.html).

I think the question has to asked and answered concerning what the significance of the instructions concerning tattoos or food or whatever are. I agree with Shea that it can't be kind of random cherry picking, but I could imagine that there could be interpretive reasons for following some in some way in our culture and not others. I don't know.

[Shea Zellweger]

I'm not sure I am comfortable saying this passage of scripture (or any) is "no longer applicable" based on contingencies like that he follow the whole Levitical code or not. Though I would think that there would need to be some consistancy in how navigate these kind's of passages.

I think in the spirit of "binding and loosing" verses like these may not apply in the same way today that it would have to the ancient Jew- but this does not mean these passages have no implication in the life of follower of Jesus today. I am not saying that the right interpretation of how the passage should be applied today either forbids or allows tattoos- but however regardless if the passage is either bound or loosed, I would think something relevant about those verses must still apply in some way.

I think Ryan's friend applied the scripture in an appropriate way based on his exegesis and I find this interesting compared to a friend of mine who is a Pastor in a different tradition who has tattoos and says he thinks Christians should only get "Christian" tattoos. Ryan's friend seems to come to the opposite interpretation and says you can have a tattoo but it can't be used as "worship". So Christian's could have tattoos but not "Christian" tattoos.

So I guess my question is in regarding interpretations that loose the use of tattoos, what can we still take away from these Levitical codes to value them and not just they are "no longer applicable"? What can these passage still teach us and how can they be relevant for us even when we feel they do not apply the same way in our culture?

I guess I just don't want to just out right dismiss these passages even if we don't follow them the same way.

I don't think we need to outright dismiss the passage, I just don't think that the Levitical instructions for worship need to be strictly followed. There is still the "spirit of the law" that can be very helpful- for example, given the traditional process of tattooing, I think we can accurately surmise that God does not desire us to inflict severe pain on ourselves, mutilate our bodies, or foolishly risk death as a sign of worship. But with the evolution of the tattooing process, I don't think we can claim that the tattoos people get now are in the same vein as the ones they would have gotten then. A more accurate comparison would be people who flagellate themselves as a sign of submission to God.

[Andy Mistak]

462

I just got one today!!!

[James Diggs]

I don't think we need to outright dismiss the passage, I just don't think that the Levitical instructions for worship need to be strictly followed.
Thanks Shea. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth by the way, I didn't really think you were just outright dismissing the passage, I just wasn't comfortable with what "no longer applicable" comes across as.


There is still the "spirit of the law" that can be very helpful...

yes, that is what I was looking for.



...for example, given the traditional process of tattooing, I think we can accurately surmise that God does not desire us to inflict severe pain on ourselves, mutilate our bodies, or foolishly risk death as a sign of worship. But with the evolution of the tattooing process, I don't think we can claim that the tattoos people get now are in the same vein as the ones they would have gotten then. A more accurate comparison would be people who flagellate themselves as a sign of submission to God.

Good example. I wonder then, if much of what those ancient markings were about were like badges of honor that demonstrated one's dedication as if passing some sort of test of pain, was there any dedication or motivation involved surrounding the actual "art" of tattoos back then? I don't know a lot about the history of tattoos to know if "art" was even a factor back then. This does not change your example much either way, I'm just curious.

[James Diggs]

462

I just got one today!!!

Looks good- who designed it???

[Andy Mistak]

Looks good- who designed it???

Found it online. It's an Alpha/Omega with an anchor integrated.

[Shea Zellweger]

Good example. I wonder then, if much of what those ancient markings were about were like badges of honor that demonstrated one's dedication as if passing some sort of test of pain, was there any dedication or motivation involved surrounding the actual "art" of tattoos back then? I don't know a lot about the history of tattoos to know if "art" was even a factor back then. This does not change your example much either way, I'm just curious.

I don't know anything about the "art." I've been told about the process by a few different historians. Some described the use of fecal matter, while others suggested that it was a process of opening and re-opening wounds until scars were left behind. Ancient Egyptians appear to have used some kind of ink, but given that non-toxic ink is a fairly recent development even that would have been a needless risk of one's life and safety.

From what I've read on the "art" side of things, it appears that geometric patterns were favored, and tattoos could be used for beauty as well as for connecting with the divine, or as a talisman of sorts. I guess the "for beauty" part would lend itself to the art aspect.

[Randy Wise]

Well if you change your computer desktop picture alot because you like variety you might want to rethink a permanent tattoo:o

R.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

Tattoos are becoming quite common and the tattoo removal industry is booming. A lot of people have "tattoo regret" especially as they mature and find that what was a meaningful bit of art when they were younger is now "branding" them in ways they didn't expect or want. I don't think most people associate tattoos with mature judgment.

I don't think having a religious tattoo makes a person any more committed to Christ and I don't think it's as good a witness as simply living as a follower of Christ.

Still, I don't think it's sin to get one.

[Dale Cozby]

My thoughts in no particular order:
1. Living in an area with graffiti on buildings I don't see body art as that appealing.
2. I have seen lots of "body art" in prison. Lots of guys have them, so it isn't a big deal. They denote, gang allegiance, daily boredom, monetary tastes, preference in automobiles, past relationships, and the like. Most guys don't seem to pay any attention to them because they are so common place in prison, it is like looking at a wall full of graffiti, it just becomes a blur to the viewer trying to pick out a meaningful image, without staring.
3. People with any number of tattoos that can't be covered with clothing in public tend to make whole groups of strangers uncomfortable often at just an emotional level, which is something I prefer not to do, no matter who that group might be. I don't need to alienate anyone I might be trying to minister to. So having no tattoo is about as neutral as I can be.
4. People with tattoos working in certain industries, tend to be less promotable, like fat people or people with purple hair or black and white(Goth) make-up.
5. People with tattoos were and still are stereotyped by others as having poor attitudes that may include poor-self-esteem, being over-emotional, impulsive, self-loathing, undereducated, rebelliousness, sleezy(mostly for girls), lacking in self-control, not given proper guidance by parents and other mentors or belonging to the drug, prison, or gangland culture.

6. Is it wrong to have them? For me yes, I believe it would be. For I do not wish to put any form of discomfort or stumbling block or distraction into a relationship I am trying hard to make. I ask those with tattoos to not judge me for not having them, and I won't judge them for having them.

[Linda Bechtold]

I would probably never get one myself (I have learned to never say never) but am around people with them.

My new son in-law has several and in the past month we have started to visit a Nazarene church. The church has a lot of older members and I worry about what they are thinking. We had been attending a large non-denominational church where even the staff had tattoos so it wasn't an issue there.

The people all seem very friendly at the Nazarene church but I am tainted from my past experiences and am nervous that someone will say something to him.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

3. People with any number of tattoos that can't be covered with clothing in public tend to make whole groups of strangers uncomfortable often at just an emotional level, which is something I prefer not to do, no matter who that group might be. I don't need to alienate anyone I might be trying to minister to. So having no tattoo is about as neutral as I can be.

The groups you prefer to be with might be more comfortable like that, but there are groups of people who are uncomfortable being in the presence of a suit and a tie.

[Andy Mistak]

The groups you prefer to be with might be more comfortable like that, but there are groups of people who are uncomfortable being in the presence of a suit and a tie.

It really is all about being faithful to the context in which you're living.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

462

I just got one today!!!

You like their root beer, eh?

[Cindi Hammons]

The people all seem very friendly at the Nazarene church but I am tainted from my past experiences and am nervous that someone will say something to him.

It's none of their business...period. If something as insignificant as a tatoo would cause "issues" for the church people, my opinion is that looking for another church would be in order. I'll pray that this does not become an issue for your family.

I find it humorous/sad that church people can accept "old Mr. Jones" who got tatoos while serving in the Marines in Korea, but would have a hard time accepting a younger person with a more recent tat. I've seen it...it happens.

[Dale Cozby]

The groups you prefer to be with might be more comfortable like that, but there are groups of people who are uncomfortable being in the presence of a suit and a tie.I didn't say I preferred one group over another. I said I prefer not to make anyone uncomfortable. So I dress casual and don't wear ties or tattoos. Trying to do my best to alienate the fewest people possible by my appearance.

[Andy Mistak]

You like their root beer, eh?

That's just mean, dude.

[Dale Cozby]

I would probably never get one myself (I have learned to never say never) but am around people with them.

My new son in-law has several and in the past month we have started to visit a Nazarene church. The church has a lot of older members and I worry about what they are thinking. We had been attending a large non-denominational church where even the staff had tattoos so it wasn't an issue there.

The people all seem very friendly at the Nazarene church but I am tainted from my past experiences and am nervous that someone will say something to him.

Linda, not sure if the church your discussing is the McKinney church, but let me know if anyone says something. I have a vested interest in that church. Considering that when i was on the board there we had plenty of tattoos on the arms of board members, I would be surprised if anyone says a negative word.

[Linda Bechtold]

Linda, not sure if the church your discussing is the McKinney church, but let me know if anyone says something. I have a vested interest in that church. Considering that when i was on the board there we had plenty of tattoos on the arms of board members, I would be surprised if anyone says a negative word.

It isn't that church and I want to make it clear that no one has said anything... it is my own experiences in the past with legalistic attitudes that make me nervous that something might be said.

Going to the larger non-denominational church for the last 4 years really opened my eyes to how much emphasis is placed on non-essentials. I felt such a freedom of not worrying about being looked down upon for things that really did not matter.

I know that as a denomination if we are going to reach this younger generation (who typically don't attend church) we might have to put up with some tattoos and piercings.

[Susan Unger]

My next will be on my ribcage. Everyone tells me it will be immensely painful.And people think I am nuts for loving snow...

[Shea Zellweger]

And people think I am nuts for loving snow...

the cold from snow lasts much longer than the pain from tats.

[Susan Unger]

the cold from snow lasts much longer than the pain from tats.But cold is not pain....it is a blessed thing in the midst of a heat wave in fact.

[Shea Zellweger]

But cold is not pain....it is a blessed thing in the midst of a heat wave in fact.

I seem to remember cold being painful after a couple of months... :)

[Susan Unger]

I seem to remember cold being painful after a couple of months... :)The only time where I even came close to saying that was Jan 94 when the high for the day was - 35 one day and in the ball park for many other days that month. I had to drive each morning to school where I taught an hour one way. I do recall a time that month [after worrying each day about my drive over there for the few days tht that we didn't have school canceled] where I said "I am getting tired of this" but that is the closest I've ever come to grumbling about the cold.

Meanwhile, just looking at Ben's avatar gives me the heebie jeebies. ;)

[Lorie Hatcliff]

A few years ago, when I was directing the summer ministry teams for one of our institutions, I received a phone call from a district superintendent. He was upset that a member of the team we had sent to his district's teen camp had a tattoo on his leg. It was visible when the team member wore shorts. The DS upbraided me for having "this kind of person" on the team, and about the negative influence he would have on the teens. He further stated that this reflected negatively on the college, and supported the view of liberality many on his district had of the college. I informed the DS that this young man was from his district, and had arrived on campus as a freshman with the tattoo.

I don't know how long ago your experience was, but I think it's important to remember that a tattoo used to be associated with gangs and people involved in drugs. Not too long ago, tattoos raised red flags in many people's minds. Now they are common place and so more easily acceptable, and most have nothing to do with drugs or gangs. Just different times we are living in.

[Dave McClung]

http://www.religioustattoos.net/index.php

I'd be curious to know what other Nazarenes think about "Christian tattoos".:confused:

We have a saying in our family, "Get a tatto -- out of the will."

[Hal Paul]

We have a saying in our family, "Get a tatto -- out of the will."

If it was my family I'd probably get one just to see if you were serious.

[Hal Paul]

But cold is not pain....

Then you've never really been cold.

[Susan Unger]

Then you've never really been cold.Bound and determined to make me not love my snow and cold, huh? Well, I'll take a super cold day over a second of pain especially from a needle. I've 20 years or so of chronic migraines not to mention having too many issues with needles in my health care...I'll take the cold.

[Hal Paul]

Bound and determined to make me not love my snow and cold, huh? Well, I'll take a super cold day over a second of pain especially from a needle. I've 20 years or so of chronic migraines not to mention having too many issues with needles in my health care...I'll take the cold.

I didn't say you've never felt pain, I said you've never been cold, really cold.

[Hans Deventer]

The groups you prefer to be with might be more comfortable like that, but there are groups of people who are uncomfortable being in the presence of a suit and a tie.

Oh yes! Always make me wonder if people are real or just putting up a show. Has something to do with my profession. In IT, the people who are experts, rarely dress up. The people who do, are usually in sales. Even in church, a suit is like a layer you need to get through in order to find the real person. My very subjective experience, of course.

[Ryan Plott]

http://www.religioustattoos.net/index.php

I'd be curious to know what other Nazarenes think about "Christian tattoos".:confused:

Why should we not decorate the temple of God with religious artwork? Maybe they should be a requirement....

[Cam Pence]

http://www.religioustattoos.net/index.php

I'd be curious to know what other Nazarenes think about "Christian tattoos".:confused:

i have three and they all hurt!! dont let people tell you were on the body at tattoo will or wont hurt.....its someone drawing into your skin....ouch!

[George Wallace]

That's just mean, dude.

You know many people find that the whole black-ink, dark color, thing lends a dark feel to many tats. Might I suggest a simple and innocuous image for the other arm.

http://www.wallstreetband.ca/images/a&w.jpg

[Dana Grant]

I've never understood why someone would want to permanently mark their body. I have nothing against it spiritually, just practically. I have a client who is a plastic surgeon -- people come to him wanting to have them removed. I look at some of the younger people who have tattoos all over their bodies, even on their faces, and it really saddens me, because many of those youngsters will live to regret that decision someday. My dad has tattoos that he regrets having done, even though they are part of HIM in my mind; I can't imagine him without them.

Tattoos and ear gaging -- two things I wish especially teenagers would think twice before doing. The styles change, and someday those huge holes in their ears won't be quite so appealing, I fear. Then there's the tongue dividing thing...........I just can't fathom the reasoning behind it.....

Call me old fashioned....it's really okay with me!!!

[Benjamin Burch]

I've never understood why someone would want to permanently mark their body. I have nothing against it spiritually, just practically. I have a client who is a plastic surgeon -- people come to him wanting to have them removed. I look at some of the younger people who have tattoos all over their bodies, even on their faces, and it really saddens me, because many of those youngsters will live to regret that decision someday. My dad has tattoos that he regrets having done, even though they are part of HIM in my mind; I can't imagine him without them.

Tattoos and ear gaging -- two things I wish especially teenagers would think twice before doing. The styles change, and someday those huge holes in their ears won't be quite so appealing, I fear. Then there's the tongue dividing thing...........I just can't fathom the reasoning behind it.....

Call me old fashioned....it's really okay with me!!!

I don't think it's "old fashioned" to advise patience, serious thinking, and wise decision making. Not at all.

However, I do think there are folks like me out there who are raised to adore tattoos. My role model growing up was covered in them from head to toe (literally, he was bald and had flames tattooed on his head). He was a former wrestler and was a leader in our congregation. I looked up to him more than anyone other than my father and I fell in love with body art because i fell in love with him. I grow to love them more every single day. I know it's easy to think that I'm 23 and that will change, but my mother is 49 and working up her third one. She's determined to get three before I do.

I think there are some people who just love art to that extent, and body art is included.

[Hans Deventer]

I've never understood why someone would want to permanently mark their body. I have nothing against it spiritually, just practically. I have a client who is a plastic surgeon -- people come to him wanting to have them removed. I look at some of the younger people who have tattoos all over their bodies, even on their faces, and it really saddens me, because many of those youngsters will live to regret that decision someday. My dad has tattoos that he regrets having done, even though they are part of HIM in my mind; I can't imagine him without them.

That would be my main reason too. I think, what if people at age 20 were told, "This is the deal, you get to buy the furniture and wallpaper and paint and everything that's in your house now, and it will have to stay that way till your dying day." How many would accept that? But that is what you do with a tattoo. It's the permanent character of a tattoo that I don't like.

[Gina Stevenson]

I have a non spiritual reason - I am not into pain. Whenever I see someone with a tattoo I always wonder how on earth could they stand the pain?

Exactly ... the pain, Susan ... the PAIN! OUCH!


looks like you guys started to dig into some of my questions while I was typing.

I think the question has to asked and answered concerning what the significance of the instructions concerning tattoos or food or whatever are. I agree with Shea that it can't be kind of random cherry picking, but I could imagine that there could be interpretive reasons for following some in some way in our culture and not others. I don't know.

Well, the reason(s) I see for following some of these old laws is that it's been found that many of them are very good for us healthwise. So, even if they became a ritualistic thing for Jews long ago, retaining them for health purposes makes sense today in many cases.


And people think I am nuts for loving snow...

Uh-huh. ;)


the cold from snow lasts much longer than the pain from tats.

Don't know about the tats, but I do know what being painfully cold is ... & so cold it seems you'll never be able to get warm, even once inside away from it all!


But cold is not pain....it is a blessed thing in the midst of a heat wave in fact.

No "uh-huh" here this time, Susan, but a great big UH-UH !!


Then you've never really been cold.

Have to say "AMEN!" to this Hal ... & Susan. ;)


~former desert dwelliner, missing it! ~

[Jeff Scott]

I don't think having a religious tattoo makes a person any more committed to Christ and I don't think it's as good a witness as simply living as a follower of Christ.

I am considering getting a tattoo. However, if I do, I want it to be one that speaks to what is important to me, and explains something about my faith. I don't see it as an act of worship, but rather a picture with a story that needs to be explained. I want it to be original and have some ideas, but I haven't quite nailed it down yet. I also understand that they're permanent, so I want to be sure that it will mean the same to me 50 years from now as it does today.

Having said this, I think it's relatively unlikely that I'll ever get one!

[Jeff Scott]

We have a saying in our family, "Get a tatto -- out of the will."

What if it's a tattoo of you?!?!:smilies0262:

[Tami Martin]

I have a non spiritual reason - I am not into pain. Whenever I see someone with a tattoo I always wonder how on earth could they stand the pain?

You'd be surprised to know Susan that it's not that painful. I have three (only one on a visible spot - above my left ankle) and none were terribly painful.

None of my tats are religious in nature. But the visible one is one I'm sure to never regret. When my niece and nephew were killed, I got a tattoo to memorialize them. My sister and brother in law who lost their son did not get tats but my baby sister and her husband who lost their daughter both have tattoos that honor her.

However, I would caution you to not put the name of anyone you did not give birth to on your body (or fathered...). My first husband got my name tattooed on his arm. He had to go to some trouble to get another tat to cover it up.

[Dale Cozby]

That would be my main reason too. I think, what if people at age 20 were told, "This is the deal, you get to buy the furniture and wallpaper and paint and everything that's in your house now, and it will have to stay that way till your dying day." How many would accept that? But that is what you do with a tattoo. It's the permanent character of a tattoo that I don't like.

The wall paper on my computer changes everyday,. I buy a different color car every time. I can't stand the idea of wearing the clothes I wore twenty years ago. I rearrange my furniture every couple of years. I paint my walls different colors every few years. Nope I am not a very good candidate for some permanent form of art on my body that would last a lifetime, even if I only have half a life to go now....
If I put it on my backside then I would drive my wife crazy making her look at it for a lifetime. She likes change as much as I do.

I wonder how one decides what is worth looking at for a lifetime? I guess a few things are always around us church types though, like crosses. I was told by another church elder his daughter had a tattoo of the Hebrew word for "covenant' placed on the bottom of her foot. So I guess it is possible to find something that might be worth a lifetime of wearing it, but I am just too wishy washy to make that sort of lifetime commitment. ;)

[Susan Unger]

I didn't say you've never felt pain, I said you've never been cold, really cold.

I would still take that - 35 day over any second with a needle.

[Susan Unger]

You'd be surprised to know Susan that it's not that painful. I have three (only one on a visible spot - above my left ankle) and none were terribly painful.Yet, there IS pain involved otherwise you wouldn't need to add on the word 'terribly'. That is still too much for me.

I have zero tolerance for pain, especially from needles. Meanwhle I truly love being cold. I love it so much that cousins on my facebook page yesterday gave me sincere birthday wishes by saying they wish I could have a snowstorm on my birthday. It bothers me that people can't take this seriously and so assume that I must not have ever been cold. As if I would change my change my tune once I was 'truly cold' [in their eyes]. -35 F is pretty cold and I didn't mind it. I minded having to drive over untreated country roads to get to work but I didn't mind being out in -35 F degrees. I think it would be awesome to go Antartica [kind of like visiting Mecca] while driving past a tattoo parlor makes me cringe.

[Shea Zellweger]

Yet, there IS pain involved otherwise you wouldn't need to add on the word 'terribly'. That is still too much for me.

I have zero tolerance for pain, especially from needles. Meanwhle I truly love being cold. I love it so much that cousins on my facebook page yesterday gave me sincere birthday wishes by saying they wish I could have a snowstorm on my birthday. It bothers me that people can't take this seriously and so assume that I must not have ever been cold. As if I would change my change my tune once I was 'truly cold' [in their eyes]. -35 F is pretty cold and I didn't mind it. I minded having to drive over untreated country roads to get to work but I didn't mind being out in -35 F degrees. I think it would be awesome to go Antartica [kind of like visiting Mecca] while driving past a tattoo parlor makes me cringe.

I cannot argue against your tolerance for cold. If you really enjoy -35 weather, good for you I suppose. I have experienced pain from severe cold- lowest I've experienced is somewhere on the order of -40, -50 if you count wind chill, but when things got subfreezing at home, my bedroom cooled off enough that I woke up pretty achy. After several months of waking up sore each year for 16 years, I can say with some certainty that cold is capable of causing me pain, and I'm sure I've suffered more pain from cold than I ever will from a tattoo gun, unless I become some kind of tattoo junky and decide to get every square inch of my body inked :P.

[Tami Martin]

Yet most folks are content to stay with the same hair color all their lives (for the most part!) or the same nose, the same height...

There is an awful lot about my appearance that will never change and I'm fine with that. Part of that is now my tats. Sure, my desktop picture changes over time (and brief periods of time at that). Sure I change purses often, or shoes. I change hair styles quite a bit too. But that doesn't mean I want everything in my life to be constantly changing. I like that some things stay the same. Like the tat on my leg. It's permanent and that's part of it's appeal.


edited to add: this was in response to a line of thought started by Hans talking about people's need to change things

[Susan Unger]

I cannot argue against your tolerance for cold. If you really enjoy -35 weather, good for you I suppose. I have experienced pain from severe cold- lowest I've experienced is somewhere on the order of -40, -50 if you count wind chill, but when things got subfreezing at home, my bedroom cooled off enough that I woke up pretty achy. After several months of waking up sore each year for 16 years, I can say with some certainty that cold is capable of causing me pain, and I'm sure I've suffered more pain from cold than I ever will from a tattoo gun, unless I become some kind of tattoo junky and decide to get every square inch of my body inked :P.

Besides havig little tolerance of the pain from needles, I have little tolerance for warm temperatures. I have been known to have the AC running when it is 65 F outside. As I have healed from anxiety, I have been able to do some self talk in warmer temps ["it'll be ok....you can do it....you can survive summer...maybe....hopefully....]. Doesn't work yet when the dew point is over 70 because humidity aggravates migraines. But, in dryer cllimates my self talk works. Winter is the only time I feel truly comfortable.

Meanwhile as long as I have chronic health problems, I am guaranteed needles and needles = pain for me. I can't always be guaranteed a decent enough winter, but needles are a sure thing. This causes a lot of anxiety and inner pain for me.

[Hal Paul]

It's not a religious tattoo, but Londa got one last October on the 10th anniversary of her kidney transplant. I helped her design it, she wanted it to represent the fact that she got a new chance at life, while memorializing the donor, whose death that chance at life. She chose a blue tulip because blue is her favorite color, and tulips are her favorite flower, and they are representative of her Dutch heritage. The dates underneath are the day the donor died and the day Londa received her new organ. The small scar at the lower left is from the dialysis catheter, she used for the eight or so years she was on peritoneal dialysis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDBNmgkIqMs&feature=related).

464

[Glenda Harvey]

The only thing I've told my kids about tattoos is that if they get one to get it where it would be easily covered if they got a job that did not allow them. The County I work for just decided about 3 years ago to no longer allow tattoos to be visible in the work place. People have had to get creative with their clothing to cover them up and sometimes even cover them with bandages. Can you imagine having to wear long sleeves in 105 degree heat?

[Hal Paul]

Can you imagine having to wear long sleeves in 105 degree heat? Meh, no big deal if they are going from their air conditioned house, to their air conditioned car, to their air conditioned office.

[Glenda Harvey]

Meh, no big deal if they are going from their air conditioned house, to their air conditioned car, to their air conditioned office.

True, but a lot of county jobs are out doors. At the Head Start the teaching Staff and the Custodian all spend at least part of the day outside.

[Hal Paul]

True, but a lot of county jobs are out doors. At the Head Start the teaching Staff and the Custodian all spend at least part of the day outside.

Soldiers are required to wear their sleeves down year round and Marines wear their sleeves down while in a combat environment, even when the mercury pushes 120+, many of them usually spend all day outside or in steel hulled vehicles that have no AC.

[Andy Mistak]

Soldiers are required to wear their sleeves down year round and Marines wear their sleeves down while in a combat environment, even when the mercury pushes 120+, many of them usually spend all day outside or in steel hulled vehicles that have no AC.

You don't sound like a recruiter ...:smilies1722:

[Hal Paul]

You don't sound like a recruiter ...:smilies1722:

The best recruiters can tell people how much it sucks and still convince them to join.

[Ryan Scott]

The only thing I've told my kids about tattoos is that if they get one to get it where it would be easily covered if they got a job that did not allow them. The County I work for just decided about 3 years ago to no longer allow tattoos to be visible in the work place. People have had to get creative with their clothing to cover them up and sometimes even cover them with bandages. Can you imagine having to wear long sleeves in 105 degree heat?

I think that's more an example of the opposite of the trend. My brother in law has a number of visible tattoos and his opinion is essentially, "any company that cares about them is not a company I want to work for." More and more, restrictions on things like this mean missing out on good employees.

On a similar note. We're moving to a new congregation this week. We interviewed there in March - the tattoo on my ankle was covered the whole time. It won't be this summer. I might have brought it up if I had remembered to do so - we'll see what sort of responses I get. (In addition to the responses to my wearing jeans and t-shirts on Sunday morning.)

[Bud Pugh]

We have a saying in our family, "Get a tatto -- out of the will."

My son, when he was around 13, asked when he could get his ear pierced. I told him he could as soon as I did. Still no holes in our ears.

I noticed he didn't ask about the fish symbol he had tattooed on the the inside of his wrist not long after he graduated from high school. :)

We have a friend who claims that she cried for 3 days after her daughter got a small tattoo on her ankle. She has told her that she would gladly mortgage their home, if necessary, to pay to have it removed. She is convinced that the Bible is very clear on the prohibition of tattoos.

[David Parker]

My son, when he was around 13, asked when he could get his ear pierced. I told him he could as soon as I did. Still no holes in our ears.

Funny how that is. I have had an earring for many many years, and none of my three sons have any interest in one. Darn those rebellious kids... :smilies1722:

[Dale Cozby]

I think that's more an example of the opposite of the trend. My brother in law has a number of visible tattoos and his opinion is essentially, "any company that cares about them is not a company I want to work for." More and more, restrictions on things like this mean missing out on good employees. "any company that cares about them is not a company I want to work for." is all fine and good when you have lots of choices for employment, but not so cool when you are going to lose your house or car because your unemployed. In a market with lots of people to choose from it isn't a good idea to get all cocky about something that could be a deal breaker. If I had a tattoo, I would cover it up for an interview if I could. Body art and piercings tend to make you less employable not more. See my post above about the perceived attitudes of people with tattoos. A possible "Bad attitude" isn't something you want to proudly display when asking for a job.

Good luck with your new ministry opportunity. Have you shared with us something about where you are headed?

[Dale Cozby]

Funny how that is. I have had an earring for many many years, and none of my three sons have any interest in one. Darn those rebellious kids... :smilies1722:

David the quickest way to keep your kids from doing something, is to beat them to it! Now it is old fashioned! Way to go man.

[Wilson Deaton]

... (In addition to the responses to my wearing jeans and t-shirts on Sunday morning.)

May we assume you interviewed in jeans and t-shirt?

Wilson

[Billy Cox]

On a similar note. We're moving to a new congregation this week. We interviewed there in March - the tattoo on my ankle was covered the whole time. It won't be this summer. I might have brought it up if I had remembered to do so - we'll see what sort of responses I get. (In addition to the responses to my wearing jeans and t-shirts on Sunday morning.)

Isn't it kind of a girlie thing to have a tattoo on one's ankle? ;)

[Dave Mann]

I ride my Harley with a burly bunch who often try to talk me into growing my hair long and getting a "Jesus Tat."

I'll contribute $20 to the pot, Jim, but I want a picture of you on the Harley with the long hair and tat showing. Next stop, Laconia.

[Good to see you, btw]

[Benjamin Burch]

"any company that cares about them is not a company I want to work for." is all fine and good when you have lots of choices for employment, but not so cool when you are going to lose your house or car because your unemployed. In a market with lots of people to choose from it isn't a good idea to get all cocky about something that could be a deal breaker. If I had a tattoo, I would cover it up for an interview if I could. Body art and piercings tend to make you less employable not more. See my post above about the perceived attitudes of people with tattoos. A possible "Bad attitude" isn't something you want to proudly display when asking for a job.

Good luck with your new ministry opportunity. Have you shared with us something about where you are headed?

It isn't as much about being cocky as it is knowing the type of environment you can or cannot work in. An environment that is so uptight and with such mixed up priorities that it can't see past a tattoo to see the person behind it is one that:

(1) Probably isn't good at judging character
(2) Probably isn't good at building relationships with clients
(3) Probably has other priorities that are misplaced

You see, I can make judgments at face value, too. The problem is, mine are a lot more accurate than the presuppositions about me because of my tattoo.

Don't even get me started on what I would have to say about a Church Board which would choose to not bring me on because of a tattoo(s).

[Tami Martin]

Isn't is pretty clear that the attitudes toward tats are changing? There's still the old guard who still sees tats as something antisocial, self-mutilating and bad-attitude-ish. But by the time my age cohorts are "old," the prevailing attitude is not likely to be the same.

[Rich Schmidt]

Isn't is pretty clear that the attitudes toward tats are changing? There's still the old guard who still sees tats as something antisocial, self-mutilating and bad-attitude-ish. But by the time my age cohorts are "old," the prevailing attitude is not likely to be the same.

As long as you're willing to either (a) wait until then or (b) avoid the parts of our cultural landscape (like the county with the rule mentioned earlier) that still have negative impressions of tattoos, it's not a problem.

[Dale Cozby]

Isn't is pretty clear that the attitudes toward tats are changing? There's still the old guard who still sees tats as something antisocial, self-mutilating and bad-attitude-ish. But by the time my age cohorts are "old," the prevailing attitude is not likely to be the same.

Yes, this is true. In every social order there are people in power and people in the majority. The power tends to follow the majority and as tattoos become more commonplace, the power base will shift into their favor. In any given profession or place of work, the power base can change and a new group rise to power. When it does the prejudices will change. Notice, I did not say go away, only change. I am a firm believer that every person has prejudices( whether they want to admit it or not) Ben and others with tattoos show their prejudices as much as those without.
Some people judge you for wearing a tie and jacket, others for sporting a tattoo.

PERSONAL TESTIMONY AHEAD:
I have come to an epiphany of sorts in the last few years, that God would have me be comfortable with ALL people. I have asked for God to make me aware of my own prejudices and points of discomfort at the moment it happens. So anytime I am presented with a person that in some way makes me "uncomfortable", God is quick to speak to me and show Himself to me through that person.

This has been a great benefit with dealing with all sorts of people and cultures. It has allowed me to sit and discuss life's meaning with, hug and love the pedophile, murderer, (insert felony) in prison ministry. It has allowed me to smile and enjoy the bass only gangsta rap blasting from the pimped out car next to me at the street light. it has allowed me to love the homeless beggar on the corner that smells like booze or has needle marks or the ugly old lady that smells like a cigarette shop in the convenient store line buying lotto tickets AND it has allowed me to love the man in the really nice suit and tie driving the new Mercedes that just cut me off, and the guys with strange hair cuts and/or facial piercings scoping out the pretty girls we have in our church, the aliens and strangers among us, the Muslims that works next door to the church, the your "going to hell(or somewhere bad) because your not like me" groups, etc.
IN summary this one prayer to God asking to help me not be uncomfortable around anyone as enlarged my comfort zone so as to include all peoples or all races, creeds and backgrounds.
God isn't calling me to get out of my comfort zone, He is calling me to enlarge my comfort zone to be like His.

[Tami Martin]

Yes, this is true. In every social order there are people in power and people in the majority. The power tends to follow the majority and as tattoos become more commonplace, the power base will shift into their favor. In any given profession or place of work, the power base can change and a new group rise to power. When it does the prejudices will change. Notice, I did not say go away, only change. I am a firm believer that every person has prejudices( whether they want to admit it or not) Ben and others with tattoos show their prejudices as much as those without.
Some people judge you for wearing a tie and jacket, others for sporting a tattoo.

PERSONAL TESTIMONY AHEAD:
I have come to an epiphany of sorts in the last few years, that God would have me be comfortable with ALL people. I have asked for God to make me aware of my own prejudices and points of discomfort at the moment it happens. So anytime I am presented with a person that in some way makes me "uncomfortable", God is quick to speak to me and show Himself to me through that person.

This has been a great benefit with dealing with all sorts of people and cultures. It has allowed me to sit and discuss life's meaning with, hug and love the pedophile, murderer, (insert felony) in prison ministry. It has allowed me to smile and enjoy the bass only gangsta rap blasting from the pimped out car next to me at the street light. it has allowed me to love the homeless beggar on the corner that smells like booze or has needle marks or the ugly old lady that smells like a cigarette shop in the convenient store line buying lotto tickets AND it has allowed me to love the man in the really nice suit and tie driving the new Mercedes that just cut me off, and the guys with strange hair cuts and/or facial piercings scoping out the pretty girls we have in our church, the aliens and strangers among us, the Muslims that works next door to the church, the your "going to hell(or somewhere bad) because your not like me" groups, etc.
IN summary this one prayer to God asking to help me not be uncomfortable around anyone as enlarged my comfort zone so as to include all peoples or all races, creeds and backgrounds.
God isn't calling me to get out of my comfort zone, He is calling me to enlarge my comfort zone to be like His.

Dale, clicking the thanks button wasn't quite enough. Your testimony inspired me.

[Dave McClung]

Isn't is pretty clear that the attitudes toward tats are changing? There's still the old guard who still sees tats as something antisocial, self-mutilating and bad-attitude-ish. But by the time my age cohorts are "old," the prevailing attitude is not likely to be the same.

One of the fastest growing businesses is tatto removal.

[Rich Schmidt]

One of the fastest growing businesses is tatto removal.


That's one reason I don't plan to get one. My wife's older brother had a big tattoo on his shoulder that he had removed once he could afford it.

BTW, is there a reason you spell it "tatto" instead of "tattoo"? You've done it twice now, I think. Just curious.

[Benjamin Burch]

One of the fastest growing businesses is tatto removal.


I don't think these two sentiments are contradictory or in tension. I think they actually play off of one another. Tattoos are much more acceptable in our society as a whole, and many more work-places and people don't mind them as much as they used to. This gives people more freedom to get them, and therefore more people are getting tattoos removed because they shouldn't have gotten one in the first place.

[Susan Unger]

PERSONAL TESTIMONY AHEAD:
I have come to an epiphany of sorts in the last few years, that God would have me be comfortable with ALL people. I have asked for God to make me aware of my own prejudices and points of discomfort at the moment it happens. So anytime I am presented with a person that in some way makes me "uncomfortable", God is quick to speak to me and show Himself to me through that person.

...God isn't calling me to get out of my comfort zone, He is calling me to enlarge my comfort zone to be like His.
I forget my reasons why, but I came to this conclusion too in this past decade. I think my reason was I was just tired of always carrying around a mental list of who was "in" in my sanctified comfort zone and who was "out". Having chronic health problems added to my inability to carry that list around as well...checking off my list and checking it twice. It is just much easier to dwell on love for others and forget that list. I am always much more at peace.

Thanks for sharing.