Jesus Camp

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Anyone seen this movie yet?
http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

[Barbara Moulton]

Makes me a little uncomfortable just reading the blurb.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Makes me a little uncomfortable just reading the blurb.

Yeah?

Then click on "Videos" and watch the trailer. :basic04

[Barbara Moulton]

Yeah?

Then click on "Videos" and watch the trailer. :basic04

Oh my goodness. Man..when my kids were little I sent them to camp to sing songs, make crafts, enjoy swimming and have some good Christian fellowship.

Not to encourage them to become part of God's Army and to give up their lives for Jesus. (And remember they were raised, until they were about 7 and 9 in The Salvation Army).

I guess I failed them.

[Bruce Carriker]

This is scary stuff. I don't think the answer to Muslim terrorists is to raise our own group of young Christian terrorists.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Okay, I finally got to see this documentary.

The documentary focuses almost exclusively on a pentecostal children's pastor, Becky Fischer, and three particular kids that attend her camp.

I think that American Christians would do well to see this movie. It certainly grossly disfigues the whole circle of evangelicalism. With the exception of five minutes or so spent at Ted Haggard's New Life Church, the documentary presumes that evangelicals can all be characterized by Becky Fischer and radical pentecostalism. However, it can serve as an eye opener as to how the Christian Right Wing looks like from the outside.

As one example, at one point, another lay pastor brings out a life-sized cut-out of George Bush, and has the children send blessings and words of blessings to him in prayer. The scene is as idolatrous as www.bushfish.org.

Of course, when Ted Haggard fell but two months after the release of this movie, it only added to the fire.

I'm fairly confident that the general public is smarter than to believe that all followers of Christ are as portrayed in this documentary, but it still was an embarrassment.

Anyone else seen it?

[Ian Gentles]

Now that is scary! :(

[David Pettigrew]

The entire movie is available on youtube, in nine segments.

I have seen it. I agree that it is not representative of all evangelical Christianity.

However, a lot of it rang true with my experiences growing up, and even as recent as 2005 (http://notfine.blogspot.com/2005/07/church-camp-2005.html).

I wish I could say I didn't relate to this movie at all, but fundamentalism has definitely left its mark in the CotN.

The most disturbing part of the movie to me wasn't even what happened at camp. Camp is one week. What was going on in the homes of these kids was far more disturbing to me. The little girl describing all the "dead" churches that God didn't like - spooky.

[Genevieve Boller]

Well, I haven't seen it...and I'm not sure I want to... but I do know that I know a LOT of people (mostly my family, who are atheists) seem to really believe the most disturbing things about Christians, and its usually based on the most outrageous garbage that makes it into the news.

Maybe I should watch it...or maybe it would just make me want to vomit.

It's no wonder I sometimes feel like I can't make even the smallest dent in peoples walls against God. :fun15

Thank God HE is the one in control, and not me. I would go hide in a hole somewhere if I believed it were up to me.

[Ian Gentles]

Well, I haven't seen it...and I'm not sure I want to... but I do know that I know a LOT of people (mostly my family, who are atheists) seem to really believe the most disturbing things about Christians, and its usually based on the most outrageous garbage that makes it into the news.

Maybe I should watch it...or maybe it would just make me want to vomit.

It's no wonder I sometimes feel like I can't make even the smallest dent in peoples walls against God. :fun15

Thank God HE is the one in control, and not me. I would go hide in a hole somewhere if I believed it were up to me.

It makes ya want to vomit! I went to Naz kids camps and we had fun surrounded by love, still today i have such fond memories. I wasnt manipulated, I was loved, that means a lot to a kid!

[Gina Stevenson]

Not sure if this ever made it to PBS. But if it didn't, there was something similar on PBS ... so, have seen such things of which you speak ... somewhere. It is sad that it's the most far-out things that are allowed to be used to label Christians, as tho' the most bizarre version thereof is "the real thing."

[Greg Farra]

I thought the BushFish was a parody site. Boy, was I wrong.

There seems to be a mindset among some of our more conservative (and I am quite conservative myself) to make this a holy war of sorts. Perhaps not in an Islamist jihad way, but a war nonetheless. I receive many e-mails warning me about political or faith issues, and if I don't forward these I'm uncaring or un-patriotic.

Walter Martin once quoted another pastor(whose name escapes me) that cults are the unpaid bills of the church. Well, maybe this applies to some of the far right as well. Have we preached the gospel of peace with power, or have we watered down our message? Some of this may be a backlash against liberalism in the church as well.

And when we interact with these folk, do we season our talk with grace, or do all they hear is us criticizing them?

[Ryan Scott]

I just spent the past hour and a half watching this on Youtube. It's certainly quite interesting to see. It's just amazing to me how afraid some people are of different opinions. It's as if they teach and believe one thing and stamp out any dissent. It doesn't make God sound all that great if God's word is so fragile.

Also, the clips of Ted Haggard are quite troubling after the fact. Wow.

[Billy Cox]

Now that I see some of the negative reaction to the movie here, I think I'll move it closer to the top of my Netflix queue.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

That camp you told about sounded horrible. I read it to Dwayne. None of our children ever experienced anything like that at a Tn. District Camp. They would have told us. Our children were teens in the late seventies, one in the first half of the eighties, and one in the late eighties and early ninties. Dwayne never mentioned anything outlandish like that in E. Tn. That was awful.
I never experienced anything like that either, at camp, when I was a teen in SC, in the fifties.

[Billy Cox]

Anyone seen this movie yet?
http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

The movie finally worked its way to the top of my Netflix queue and I watched it last night.

The filmmakers were obviously convinced that children were being indoctrinated or brainwashed. I was not entirely convinced, although at some points I could not help thinking that kids were just parroting back what they had heard.

The scene where a lady preacher set a lifesized carboard cutout of George W. Bush was surreal and disturbing. It certainly had the appearance that all of the kids were praying to the cutout.

The scene where a preacher was talking to elementary aged kids about abortion was disturbing. I assume that someone explains to kids what abortion is since the yuck factor is very high, but that was not in the film.

I find it remarkable that the filmmakers were able to get apparently unfettered access to the camp and to the other locations that appeared in the film. The documentary seemed fairly balanced although some scenes containing charismatic manifestations were shown without any explanation.

The feeling that I came away with as an evangelical watching 'Jesus Camp' was similar to what I felt as a McDonalds customer after watching 'Supersize Me'; thought-provoking but I'm still a 'customer'.

[Ryan Scott]

The woman thought the documentary would be good publicity for her ministry. She was a bit too insulated to realize that what she's doing isn't exactly mainstream. The camp has since been closed due to repeated vandalism.

[Roy Richardson]

The movie finally worked its way to the top of my Netflix queue and I watched it last night...

The feeling that I came away with as an evangelical watching 'Jesus Camp' was similar to what I felt as a McDonalds customer after watching 'Supersize Me'; thought-provoking but I'm still a 'customer'.

That is a good reaction, IMHO. I attended Ron Luce's Battle Cry last year with a very skeptical mind. I'm not one for the "warrior" mentality, and he seemed awfully militant, and his 4% of Americans as Christians number is bogus, unless you define Christian as evangelical in his mold.

Things like this are not helpful, and we wind up picking up the pieces in our local congregation when someone gets wound up about something like this they saw on GodTV.

[Kevin Rector]

I saw this movie a while back. I thought is was a bit wrong that these people were characterized as evangelicals instead of as charismatics. But mostly I was just sad. Sad at a church that has a theology that their church is "alive" and others are dead because they have a more "subdued" worship style. Sad that these children are taught a "spiritual warfare" that is grounded mostly out of fear of the devil. Sad that so many thousands of Christians across the country are going to think that many, most, or all Christians look like this. Just all around sad.

[Gary Creely]

The entire movie is available on youtube, in nine segments.

I have seen it. I agree that it is not representative of all evangelical Christianity.

However, a lot of it rang true with my experiences growing up, and even as recent as 2005 (http://notfine.blogspot.com/2005/07/church-camp-2005.html).

I wish I could say I didn't relate to this movie at all, but fundamentalism has definitely left its mark in the CotN.

The most disturbing part of the movie to me wasn't even what happened at camp. Camp is one week. What was going on in the homes of these kids was far more disturbing to me. The little girl describing all the "dead" churches that God didn't like - spooky.

I definitely agree with you that the Church of the Nazarene is not exempt from having these types of experiences to some degree. On my district there was a teen camp about five years ago in which the entire topic of the camp was the devil and demons. All of a sudden there were a number of teens who needed to get exercised from demons. One teen stated that she had caught the demon from a guy in Vermont who was practicing witchcraft, and she was intimate with. I thought to myself I guess that was an STD, sexually transmitted demon.

This was a Nazarene camp, kids were being told the demons were everywhere. They were told that inanimate objects could be vessels to bring demons into your house. It was all nonsense, and lacked any biblical underpinnings, other then manipulated scripture that was proof texted.

I suppose this was an isolated incident, but the guy who was the speaker was on staff at one of the largest Nazarene churches in the country. I do not think the Church of the Nazarene is immune to these sorts of things happening. The thing that I found most alarming about this camp was that many of the other leaders did not have a problem with with what was going on. I was on the verge of packing my kids up and taking them home, While others thought this was good stuff. I talked to the guy a couple times about some of his questionable use of Scripture, and he was polite enough to talk to but continued on with the nonsense.

Just as a for instance in this camp the curriculum provided had a list of "sinful activities" that were "entry points" for demons. Near the top of that list was eating disorders. Another one of his lists listed false doctrines, near the top of that list was the Catholic Church. And last but not least was the occultic activities which included tae bo and Pokémon.

Again this was a Nazarene camp, with a high profile Nazarene youth pastor. So we are certainly not exempt.

[Gary Creely]

I saw this movie a while back. I thought is was a bit wrong that these people were characterized as evangelicals instead of as charismatics. But mostly I was just sad. Sad at a church that has a theology that their church is "alive" and others are dead because they have a more "subdued" worship style. Sad that these children are taught a "spiritual warfare" that is grounded mostly out of fear of the devil. Sad that so many thousands of Christians across the country are going to think that many, most, or all Christians look like this. Just all around sad.

Charismatics are evangelicals, outside of the charismatic part we are very similar to an Assembly of God church. Whether we like it or not they are in our camp ( no pun intended). In reality how can we expect people in the world who don't know John the Baptist from Moses to know minor differences between say the Church of the Nazarene and the Assembly of God church. We know the differences and they are huge to us, but as for the average unchurched American I don't think they would see a big difference. That is why seeing these things can be so painful, because in the back of my head I know I will be painted with the same brush.