Pastors and Visitation

[Barb Bouldrey]

My mother was taken to the hospital yesterday with pneumonia. She is 86 and has smoked for 60 years. She has never been in the hospital except to have 7 babies. She has never been a Christian.

I emailed a lady in my home church and asked her to call her pastor and ask him to visit my mother. I asked that he talk to her about her relationship with Christ.

She answered me, "Our pastor does not do visitaton." WHAT???? This is a church of 60-70 people.

I know that in larger churches there are visitation pastors or visitation teams, but is it the "NEW WAY" that pastors now do not do hospital visitation?

Barb

[Regena Torres]

I would hope not. I pray that someone will visit your Mom, my mother came to the Lord when she was 77.

[Faith Maddox]

Barb,

I am sorry for the response from your friend. Do you know the pastor well enough to contact him directly? Is your friend able and willing to visit your mother? I realize asking the hospital chaplain to make a visit seems a little impersonal but it might be worth a try.

I will be praying for your mother today. Please post updates on her condition as you know them.

blessings,
Faith

[Alisa Stoll]

The person you emailed may be "misinformed" - I think many pastors today do not do "visitation" from the standpoint of calling on church members just to call on them. I haven't had that type of visit from my pastor. But he does visit those who are home-bound, in the hospital, request a visit, etc. Those who haven't had a need might make that statement about our pastor - especially if they were only half listening during a sermon where he mentioned his policy and only heard the first part.

Alisa

[Sara Sheppard]

If this information is accurate and the pastor won't go visit an unsaved woman who has a potentially life threatening illness - he needs to get out of the ministry. Last I checked, this was the great commission! UGH

When my grandmother was in the hospital, a Nazarene pastor from my home church drove over 60 miles one way to be at the hospital. He knew that my grandma's salvation was questionable at best and the rest of my family (except my mother) are not Christians. My grandma was already in acoma but she may have heard and understood. He came, held her hand, read the 23rd Psalm to her and prayed with her. This is a pastor who pastor part-time in a small rural church and works full-time at another job to support his family. He left his wife and 2 kids that night after he worked all day to try and lead my grandmother to the Lord in the only way left for her.

God bless him!

Sara

[Barb Bouldrey]

I have only met this man once. The lady I emailed in on the church board.

Anyway, she did call the one lady in that church that still keeps in touch with my Mom and calls her often. She talks to my mom about spiritual things. Last February, when I was there, Charlotte told me of their last conversation where Charlotte told my mom that the day will come when my Mom will need to confess her sins and be forgiven...not just believe in God.

So, Charlotte knows and will be there for my mom.

And, I will be there next Tuesday to stay a few days or even a few weeks if Mom needs me.

Since he does not know my mother, I am not going to bother him. I talked to him about her last February and gave him my mother's address. He was going to be in her senior citizen highrise apartment building the next week because he was invited to dinner by a church member. I was hoping he would stop and meet my mother. But he did not and has not.

When the time comes that my mother passes away, I want my husband to do the service, not a stranger who never met my mother.

I talked to her this morning and the doctor said there is improvement but she cannot run the halls yet.

Barb

[William Hunter]

If you read Eph. 4:11-16 you will find the main task of the pastor is to equip his people for ministry. The ministers are those in the pews/chairs. In Acts 6 we find that he is also to pray and preach the Word. I do not recall pastoral visitation as being in the Great Commission. This whole idea of the pastor doing most of the minstry of the local church just not wash in the New Testament. He is the equipper, the laypeople are the ministers. I know of churches, and not all that large, where the pastor has been faithful in teaching what the New Testament says and equipping his people for ministry. If those pastors show up at the hosp. they often find a member/s of that congregation's hosp. visitation team there, all of whom are trained in spiritual ministry to those there---and are asked why he is there, that is is their ministry, and pastor please go do what God called you to do. That is my goal here.

Now, I do continue to make hospital calls and periodic nursing homes calls. My laypeople do most of the nursing home calls and it is not necessary for me to call frequently in those places. The reason I continue to do hosp. calling is because we are only beginning to get a hosp. calling/ministry team together and have plenty of training to do of those involved.

I am beginning to believe that the reason the why about 98-99% of the modern era churches in America and Canada are not growing is because we do not focus on the church doing what we see in Scripture. Nowhere do we see that the main ministry to the church community and to its surrounding community is up to one person, the pastor. Rather, we see that he/she is to equip the laypeople for ministry. And in Titus, Paul tells us to have the spiritually mature women counsel those women who are not spiritual mature. I wonder if we did this, if we would see fewer moral problems in the ministry. Passion and compassion start out at the same place, but one goes the wrong direction. The Bible tells us how to avoid some of the temptation that can come if we do this other than the way the Bible says to do it.

I see in the bible 3 main tasks for the pastor as listed above. In the Manual of the Church of the Nazarene there are 31 or 33; I'd rather follow the Bible's lead and bring into the picture equipt laypeople who can do ever so much more ministry that just one pastor or a few professional ministers on staff. God has a better idea.

Given the lack of such a team though, I think the pastor that Barb is talking about needs to take some serious inventory of his own heart and his apparent lack of concern for a soul---if it is all as we read it here.







If this information is accurate and the pastor won't go visit an unsaved woman who has a potentially life threatening illness - he needs to get out of the ministry. Last I checked, this was the great commission! UGH

When my grandmother was in the hospital, a Nazarene pastor from my home church drove over 60 miles one way to be at the hospital. He knew that my grandma's salvation was questionable at best and the rest of my family (except my mother) are not Christians. My grandma was already in acoma but she may have heard and understood. He came, held her hand, read the 23rd Psalm to her and prayed with her. This is a pastor who pastor part-time in a small rural church and works full-time at another job to support his family. He left his wife and 2 kids that night after he worked all day to try and lead my grandmother to the Lord in the only way left for her.

God bless him!

Sara

[Jim Franklin]

I served for awhile as Lay-Visitation minister to support my pastor back in 2002-2003 before I felt called to serve at Sun Valley Indian School for the last 3 years and enjoyed it. The range of visitations was from dropping off audio tapes of the Sunday AM service to standing in a hospital room with about 15 others while a nurse keyed the shut off of life support systems for a lady who did not even belong to our church but who's husband had contacted our pastor for support in prayer and I attended her graveside service They had come to our area from Tennessee.

In conversation with a highly respected former pastor who is now retired he told me that one church where he had gone to pastor he made the mistake of promising at his first service that he would do like he had done at all of his previous pastorates that he would do his utmost to visit in every home. This was a church of over 500 and he did fulfill his promise. He also told me that equipping the congregation is a priority responsiblility of a pastor but that does not mean he should miss the opportunity to lead someone to Christ if the opportunity presents it self as the pastor should lead by example. He also said that he was under the impression that our schools were not encouraging their pastoral students to involve themselves much in visitation. Recalling how my dad was a 24/7 pastor I said then the pastor must be "more like a cowboy than a shepherd, herding them toward the great loading chute for Heaven rather than leading them as a shepherd." His response was that "That seems to be a fair analogy."

[David Cash]

I see no biblical problem with a pastor following James' definition of pure religion, which includes visiting the fatherless and widows. I would assume that it would also be ok to follow Jesus' words in Matthew 25 about visiting the sick and imprisoned. Of course, it is also true that our church people also need to be doing more of this. That is one thing that impresses me with my Mennonite friends. There seems to be more of a sense of freedom on the part of the laypeople to minister to others. We'd do well to emulate them in this area.

About a year and a half ago, I left the church I had been part of and started looking for a new church home. The search took several months, and I visited several churches, a couple of them more than once. Not once did a pastor come for a followup visit. During my Baptist school days, about 8-9 years ago, the pastor I did my field training with would make it a point to visit any visitor to the church he could. Was he unusual? Are pastors visiting less in general these days? Isn't one-on-one ministry in the home also a way of equiping the saints? Or do most people prefer not to have a pastoral visit anymore? Things I've been wondering about.

David Cash

[Paul Whitaker]

There is a retired pastor and evangelist who has been and is now fighting cancer. He is in his home. He has been in that condition for quite a spell. There has been no pastor of the four pastors which are on the staff of a large church.

It is sad because the pastor and his family could do with some encouragement.
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Another person was in the hospital for 8 months. She was near death on five or more occasions. No pastor came until near the end of her stay - this was after she had been through the hardest part of her recovery.
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Jim Morsch was pastor at Nashville First. He and Pat were in Africa for close to 2 weeks. They were our guests. Upon his return Pastor went straight to visit those who were hospitalized. I was impressed.
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:If a pastor talks from the pulpit concerning what happened when he was visiting so/and/so in the hospital - those who are not members of the "In-group" can't help but wonder why he didn't visit them in their extended stay at the hospital or bed-fast at home. Those he visited seem to be in the "cream of the social ladder"
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[William Hunter]

I still do home visitation, especially with my elderly folk, even though we have others who do that. I try to get into every visitor's home soon after they have attended but I find that is not always possible with the work schedules that have wives and husbands at home at different times. I do not call in homes where there is only a female, or only a female with children. So I have to wait until Virginia can go with me.

But it still stands that mostof the caring pastoral ministry is to be done by laypeople as I read Eph. 4.





I see no biblical problem with a pastor following James' definition of pure religion, which includes visiting the fatherless and widows. I would assume that it would also be ok to follow Jesus' words in Matthew 25 about visiting the sick and imprisoned. Of course, it is also true that our church people also need to be doing more of this. That is one thing that impresses me with my Mennonite friends. There seems to be more of a sense of freedom on the part of the laypeople to minister to others. We'd do well to emulate them in this area.

About a year and a half ago, I left the church I had been part of and started looking for a new church home. The search took several months, and I visited several churches, a couple of them more than once. Not once did a pastor come for a followup visit. During my Baptist school days, about 8-9 years ago, the pastor I did my field training with would make it a point to visit any visitor to the church he could. Was he unusual? Are pastors visiting less in general these days? Isn't one-on-one ministry in the home also a way of equiping the saints? Or do most people prefer not to have a pastoral visit anymore? Things I've been wondering about.

David Cash

[Donna Adams]

Barb, you know Mike would go visit your mom if we weren't 4.5 hours away. I really wish we could do it.

[Sara Sheppard]

If you read Eph. 4:11-16 you will find the main task of the pastor is to equip his people for ministry. The ministers are those in the pews/chairs. In Acts 6 we find that he is also to pray and preach the Word. I do not recall pastoral visitation as being in the Great Commission.



I did not mean to imply that simply visiting people in the hospital is the great commission. I 'think' leading people to the Lord is and making disciples out of them. Someone has reached out about an old (86) year old UNSAVED woman who has a potentially life threatening illness. I just have to wonder what could really be more important that day - not just for the pastor but anyone. If I had been at a church and gotten that call and knew for WHATEVER reason my pastor COULDN'T (not simply wouldn't) go visit....I would find someone who is equipped OR I would ask God to give me what I need and I would go.

She didn't just ask someone to go see her mom and cheer her up or simply "visit" her.

In this case, no its not just a pastor's job, but it is normal that a person would reach out to a church in this case. If the church doesn't have lay people equipped or available then does the church just say "sorry our pastor doesn't do that"?

I sure hope not...........
Sara

[Jenny Mitchell]

Barb,

Unfortunately I know a number of pastors who, for a variety of reasons, don't do visitation. As a pastor myself, it grieves my heart. I have no problem with having trained lay people do visitation, but to many, the pastor's presence symbolizes the presence of Christ, and when we are weak and vulnerable, we need that reminder of the nearness of Jesus. I will go visit anyone, anywhere, although if it is a person with no ties to the church at all, I prefer to take along the person who did the referral.

And I have to say this, I think as pastors we shoot ourselves in the foot when we do not convey the importance of sensitivity to the needy in our midst. By doing pastoral care and visitation, we model for our congregation that sensitivity, and who knows but that there may be a time when we need that same sensitivity shown to us? I've certainly found that to be true with my cancer diagnosis last year.

Grace and peace,
Jenny

[Bob Evans]

Not all visitation is the same.

I think were mixing up two roles of the pastor in some of our posts.

If I remeber right visitors are mroe likely to return if the first visit is from a non clergy person.

I think pastoral visititation in some form is a vital role.

If one needs to be eliminated it should probably be the chasing of visitors.

[Hans Deventer]

I see in the bible 3 main tasks for the pastor as listed above. In the Manual of the Church of the Nazarene there are 31 or 33; I'd rather follow the Bible's lead and bring into the picture equipt laypeople who can do ever so much more ministry that just one pastor or a few professional ministers on staff. God has a better idea.

Amen. I completely agree. And I'd rather have a pastor focussing on using his/her spiritual gifts (and I don't recall having ever met one who had 31 if them) than spreading way to thin on way too many tasks.

[William Hunter]

Are you saying that God, who calls the pastor to mainly be an equipper of laypeople for the work of ministry, cannot then make His presence powerfully felt through Spirit-filled laypeople? Your concept is alright as far as it goes, but it does not seem to follow God's teaching. As I read this Eph. 4 and Acts 6, it seems to me that God intent is to use laypeople to powerfully communicate His love, care, grace, and whatever else is needed for pastoral care ministry and bringing the lost to Christ. And as a pastor of a growing church, there is no way I can get all the calling done, all the needed pastoral care done, etc. If I tried then it seems to me that I would be trying to take over for God and be god in being all things to all people, while my laypeople sit back and do nothing much. That approach just is not Biblical.

I must say that nealry all our evengelism is done by laypeople as they minister to family, friends, and visitors. I feel one of my main tasks as the spiritual leader is to make the first contact with visitors. When I do and I find out a few things about them, I know which layperson to contact for followup as I see some connecting point with the visitor and a layperson in my church. At the same time that is challenge for me for my laypeople latch onto visitors as soon as they come in the door and begin the process of making friends with them. This is the biggest reason visitors come back.

I am convinced that if the church dropped some of modern era methods and returned to those found in the Bible, that we'd see much more spiritual and numerical growth in the church.






Barb,

Unfortunately I know a number of pastors who, for a variety of reasons, don't do visitation. As a pastor myself, it grieves my heart. I have no problem with having trained lay people do visitation, but to many, the pastor's presence symbolizes the presence of Christ, and when we are weak and vulnerable, we need that reminder of the nearness of Jesus. I will go visit anyone, anywhere, although if it is a person with no ties to the church at all, I prefer to take along the person who did the referral.

And I have to say this, I think as pastors we shoot ourselves in the foot when we do not convey the importance of sensitivity to the needy in our midst. By doing pastoral care and visitation, we model for our congregation that sensitivity, and who knows but that there may be a time when we need that same sensitivity shown to us? I've certainly found that to be true with my cancer diagnosis last year.

Grace and peace,
Jenny

[Jenny Mitchell]

No, I wouldn't say that lay people can't communicate the same thing. Some have that gift/calling/training. But in many of the churches of which I am aware NO ONE is doing the calling, or at least there is no structure in place to ensure it gets done. I don't think that pastoral care/calling is an optional part of a pastor's ministry. I am thinking especially here of things like hospital calls and visiting shut ins. Lay people can and should do that, too (I did as a lay person), but my point is that sometimes people need the pastor. And in certain church cultures and with certain age groups, it really has to be a pastor, at least some of the time.

I'm glad, though, that you've found something that works well in your ministry context.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

... I am convinced that if the church dropped some of modern era methods and returned to those found in the Bible, that we'd see much more spiritual and numerical growth in the church.

You're right, of course, but I wondering what exact methods you have in mind here with regards to dropping modern and adding Biblical. Could you please elaborate on exactly what you have in mind here?

Thanks,
Wilson

[Billy Cox]

I am convinced that if the church dropped some of modern era methods and returned to those found in the Bible, that we'd see much more spiritual and numerical growth in the church.

Perhaps the whole notion of a professional clergy is a modernist method that we need to jettison.

[Doris Grant]

I cannot even imagine a pastor who does not do hospital visits. I have been in the Nazarene church my whole life, which consists of 55 years, and our pastor has ALWAYS made hospital calls.

One thing this thread has done is made me realize what WONDERFUL and THOUGHTFUL pastors I have had my whole life.

Doris

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Well, my husband always did visitation, but really, that is not what is said in the book of Acts.

[Gary Swartzlander]

Our pastoral care is provided through our "Healing Companions" ministry.

A description is provided on our website.

http://www.jaxnaz.com/HealingCompanions.html

[David Cash]

A question about Ephesians 4. As I read verses 11-12, I don't see any reason to limit the pastor to "equipping the saints". Why does this not apply to apostles, prophets, and evangelists as well? Also, listed with equipping are the work of the ministry and edifying the body of Christ. Going strictly by the Bible, might there be more involved here than simply equipping others to use their gifts?

David Cash

[Gord Evans]

A question about Ephesians 4. As I read verses 11-12, I don't see any reason to limit the pastor to "equipping the saints". Why does this not apply to apostles, prophets, and evangelists as well? Also, listed with equipping are the work of the ministry and edifying the body of Christ. Going strictly by the Bible, might there be more involved here than simply equipping others to use their gifts?

David Cash


Your reference, David -- Ephesians 4:11-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%204:11-12;&version=31;)

"Pastors and teachers", especially are closely related, though each and all in this gifted group help, and have helped, the church grow through a message from God, testimony and augmentation (evangelists). Of course, the apostolic ("one who is sent") qualifications are revealed in Acts 1:21-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%201:21-22;&version=31;).

Pastoral care, or shepherding, includes the "feeding" of the flock with the word of God through teaching and preaching, but also through demonstration of what it is that the Shepherd would have us do. Although not all are called to be pastors, we each and all have some responsibility for pastoral care as God reveals.

When looking at the "built up" aspect contained in verse 12, how about drawing on the imagery found in Ephesians 2:19-22 --

19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

This imagery is reinforced in Hebrews 3:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%203:6;&version=31;), as well as being referenced again in the previous 5 verses (Hebrews 3:1-5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%203:1-5;&version=31;)).

We are all to share in the "building up", the edifying (enlightening or improving through instruction and example), of the church which, by definition, includes the members thereof. We all share in pastoral care, as God determines and reveals.

This would include, to some degree, the provision of spiritual advice and support, education, counselling, medical care, and assistance in times of need, as we are equiped and qualified by God, and through specific training. All work involving the supervision or education of children and young people is a work of pastoral care.

Who would be excluded from this?

[David Cash]

Absolutely.

The Bible translation I'm most familiar with also has Philip preaching to the Ethiopian eunuch, so really speaking God's message to one is within the preacher's realm. Also, Priscilla and Aquilla taught Apollos one-on-one. I'm all for both pastoral visitation and for laypeople to get involved in the work of the church.

One challenge Christians face is the idea that only the trained and ordained can handle Christian ministry. We have reasons for setting requirements for church leaders, but every Christian can and should be involved in God's work in the church and in the community.

David Cash

[Billy Cox]

One challenge Christians face is the idea that only the trained and ordained can handle Christian ministry. We have reasons for setting requirements for church leaders, but every Christian can and should be involved in God's work in the church and in the community.


The prevailing idea is that laypeople expect the clergy to 'do everything'. As a layperson, my experience is the opposite. Many clergy think a little too highly of their own abilities and so they insist on doing everything and then they beat up the laypeople for being lazy and uninvolved. Ministry after all has eternal consequences, so it's dangerous to trust a layperson who might mess things up.

[William Hunter]

For anyone, be they laypeople or pastors, to say that God cannot do anything significant spiritually in ministry in and thorugh laypeople, is to make a statement more about our limited belief in God than any person's ability. Look at Elijah, a man just life us, or John the baptist who only ministered for 6 months, or any other people in the Bible, most of whom would be classified as laypeople, and we see that we have a more limited concept of God than we would admit. God can use anyone who fully surrenders to Him and places themselves at His disposal, no matter what. People who say the above are guilty of having their minds too much formed by the world than being transformed as we read in Rom. 12. Paul tells us in I Cor. 1:26-31 that God deliberately seeks out the weak things and the dispised things because is it from them that He can receive the greatest glory. My cong. have so much to offer to God, so much more than this one pastor could ever hope to have. Why would I want to cut off God from what He intends to do if I release and equip my laypeople for ministry?

I know not all pastors feel that way, and that is sad. They need a work of God in their hearts until their minds are fully transformed to reflect the mind of Christ.







The prevailing idea is that laypeople expect the clergy to 'do everything'. As a layperson, my experience is the opposite. Many clergy think a little too highly of their own abilities and so they insist on doing everything and then they beat up the laypeople for being lazy and uninvolved. Ministry after all has eternal consequences, so it's dangerous to trust a layperson who might mess things up.

[Barb Bouldrey]

If a pastor is told of relatives of a visiting Christian who are not Christians, and asks the pastor to visit them, then I believe the pastor should see that someone visits those people.

Last Feb. I gave this pastor the names of my mother and 2 brothers who live in that small town and he has never contacted them.

Now my mother is is serious condition the the hospital and he will not visit her.

I expect a woman in this church who has cared about my mom for years will be the one to lead her to the Lord.

But, BUT!!! today, the pastor represents God to people when they are hurting or need Christ.

A man in a church of 70 should have time to care about the lost.

Barb

[Wilson L. Deaton]

If a pastor is told of relatives of a visiting Christian who are not Christians, and asks the pastor to visit them, then I believe the pastor should see that someone visits those people....


Barb,

You are right. Even if a pastor doesn't "do visitation" as his normal operating procedure, an exception should be made for the kind of circumstance you described. For example, as a rule I do not visit strangers. However, if some lady calls and says, "My son's family moved to your town...," I make an exception and go.

Most of my congregation knows I try to take Mondays off and some of them are protective of me in that regard. I can imagine a situation where one of them might fail to contact me on the grounds that, "Monday is his day off," when in reality I would want to be contacted for critical situations.

It is entirely possible that the person you talked to on the phone was overzealous about protecting their pastor's "known rule" concerning visitation. She may have misinterpreted a general statement he made about visitation (perhaps, for the reaons William has brought up) and concluded that exceptions could not be made. I find it rather hard to believe the pastor has told his laity, "I do not and will not visit anyone, under any circumstances, no matter what!" It's just possible the pastor would be horrified to know that the person you talked to answered in such a way....

Perhaps he's just a lazy scoundrel but I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt if there's room for any doubt at all.

Wilson

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I've always tried to be faithful to visit folks in the hospital. It can be a bit of a challenge in the big city. I set out today to visit three people in the hospital. My first visit was in the Texas Medical Center near downtown Houston. When I got to the VA Hospital there was absolutely no parking. I drove around for quite a while, getting farther and farther away. I finally found a spot that was 15 minutes from his room.

Then, I headed out to the hospital in Texas City, nearly 40 miles of city traffic away. Upon arriving I found that one person had gone home -- and I am truly happy for that. The other person couldn't receive a visitor when I got there, so I turned around and headed home. All in all I drove 90 miles in a big triangle and got to visit one precious man.

I was reminded of the old pastor's joke about the fellow who said he went out to visit all the shut-ins, but they weren't home!



I cannot even imagine a pastor who does not do hospital visits. I have been in the Nazarene church my whole life, which consists of 55 years, and our pastor has ALWAYS made hospital calls.

One thing this thread has done is made me realize what WONDERFUL and THOUGHTFUL pastors I have had my whole life.

Doris

[Mike Schutz]

If a pastor is told of relatives of a visiting Christian who are not Christians, and asks the pastor to visit them, then I believe the pastor should see that someone visits those people.

Last Feb. I gave this pastor the names of my mother and 2 brothers who live in that small town and he has never contacted them.

Now my mother is is serious condition the the hospital and he will not visit her.

I expect a woman in this church who has cared about my mom for years will be the one to lead her to the Lord.

But, BUT!!! today, the pastor represents God to people when they are hurting or need Christ.

A man in a church of 70 should have time to care about the lost.

Barb

Barb, you had every reason to expect that your mother would be visited. I would like to hear from this pastor the reason why he (I believe you said elsewhere that it is a man) would not visit, rather than assume based on the info you have.

I am not good at visiting. It is uncomfortable for me and I am not good at it, especially in homes. However, if someone wants me to come, I will be there. If there is a spiritual need, I can't wait to get there. In fact, I currently have a situation where a family is upset with me. Their father is hospitalized over an hour away, and I have not been to see him for several weeks The truth is, he is in a psychiatric ward, and while I have gone to see him several times, there has been either a staff change or a group meeting each time and I have not been allowed in. However, since I have only seen him four times in his six weeks of hospitalization, to his daughters I am a cold, uncaring pastor. How do I know? They have told me. And they have told members of my congregation, even though they left the church decades ago.

I had a wonderful experience when I was in a situation similar to yours. Over a decade ago, my aunt became ill. She was a very secular woman who had not been in a church, except for weddings and funerals, for her entire adult life. Since I was in Boston and she lived in Baltimore, I called the local Nazarene pastor. This pastor, Terry Sowden, reached out to my aunt and developed a relationship with her. Through this relationship he was able to minister not only to my aunt, but to my grandparents as well. I am forever indebted to Terry for his ministry to my family.

[Tami Martin]

I would never have suspected that pastoral visitation - at least to hospitals - was out of vogue after my own experiences. My sister and niece had so many pastors visiting when they were in the hospital last summer it was ridiculous. Not only did their pastor make the 8 HOUR DRIVE to visit, then return the next week for the funeral, but representatives of their denom (AoG) from three surrounding towns visited.

[Larry Wilson]

My mother was taken to the hospital yesterday with pneumonia. She is 86 and has smoked for 60 years. She has never been in the hospital except to have 7 babies. She has never been a Christian.

I emailed a lady in my home church and asked her to call her pastor and ask him to visit my mother. I asked that he talk to her about her relationship with Christ.

She answered me, "Our pastor does not do visitaton." WHAT???? This is a church of 60-70 people.

I know that in larger churches there are visitation pastors or visitation teams, but is it the "NEW WAY" that pastors now do not do hospital visitation?

Barb

Oh, I think you would be hard put to find many pastors who do not visit people in the hospital. It is both a pastoral duty and privilege. I think in larger churches this can be a real issue just because of the time it takes, however, especially when the expectation is that the pastor visit not only members, but the extended family and friends of members.

This is personal, though, because a pastor got such a call about 50 years ago in a little town in Ohio, visited the relative of someone who attended the church, witnessed to him and gave him a Bible. That man was saved, as was his family. He became a model churchman and I later married his daughter!

So, when I get these calls, I try to remember that!

Of course, we can't visit when we don't know they are there! I suppose most pastors have stories about people who got upset because they weren't visited when they were in the hospital, but had never let the pastor know. Sigh.

And, it is not a matter of pastor vs lay here! Pastors equip but pastors also do. I remember getting a call to visit the father of one of our members who wanted to see a pastor. He was a miserable old man by all accounts. I took one of our lay leaders with me, and we led this man to the Lord. Much the same happened at our next pastorate. What a privilege it is to minister the love of Jesus to someone and to see them come to salvation!

[Brian Hammons]

Thank you, Pastor Larry. Sciotoville has a rich history of pastors eager and willing to call. In one instance, it may have even been to the detriment of other areas of ministries. At one time that may have been close to a comlaint, but when it becomes personal, it changes everything. My mother was a fringe person whom the pastor called on about 2 years ago. It was on that particular day she was saved.

[Glenda Harvey]

I can understand a Pastor of a large Church not visiting people in the Hospital when they are there for tests or minor problems but when it is something serious or the person is near death I think a Pastor of even a large Church should visit. If a Church has less than 100 people in it then I don't think there is an excuse for Pastor not to visit when asked and if it is a member of the Church, he should not have to be asked but go on his own accord.

[William Hunter]

I do not visit in the hosp. for if a person is just having tests, now for most out-patient surgeries. I will call the night before and have prayer over the phone with those having out-patient surgery. But I always make hosp. visits for those who are admitted.

Here, being about 50 miles from Chicago, but in Indiana, I often have people in as many as four hospitals in two states. It takes all day to make calls at hospitals in Chicago for me because of the traffic and road construction. When I have people in 4 different hospitals it is common for me to put some 1300 miles per month just making hospital calls. I have a team of people who call in hospitals and nursing homes and in the homes of our shut-ins. This really helps for it cuts down on the number of times I have to call. But then, I believe that is Biblical as I look at Eph. 4:11-16. We in our country have gotten a non-Biblical view of pastoral ministry, that the pastor is the main minister of the church. According to the Eph. passage that just is not so.

Then in Acts 6:4 we see the other side of pastoral ministry beyond equipping lay people who are the Biblical ministers of the church. That is give attn. to prayer and the ministry of the Word. If pastors have to do all the main ministry, then we need to tear out some of the pages of the Word.

[Barb Bouldrey]

The main reason for starting this thread was disappointment. When person calls a church and says their unsaved loved one is possibly dying in the local hospital and could the pastor go visit them to try to talk to them about being ready to meet God, I feel that pastor should go, if possible, or send someone in his/her place.

My mother's 7 children grew up in that church. My grandparents were faithful members of that church. There was a connection with that church and my family.

Fortunately, several ladies from that church did visit my mother while she was in the hospital and I really appreciate that.

When my mother died the next week, I did not ask that pastor to do her funeral. There was no way I was going to ask a man who had no time for a dying unsaved person to preach her funeral.

Fortunately, I am married to a pastor who did a wonderful job with her funeral.

When we went back to my hometown for a family reunion in July, we attended my home church and had a friendly visit with the pastor. No hard feelings NOW. But I had to pray through my disappointment and anger at the time 14 months ago.

P.S. And oh, yes, at the time I called the church, the secretary told me that the pastor does not do hospital calls. I asked her to at least give him the message and she assured me that she would. Then, a lady in that church who emails me, let me know that she DID talk to her pastor about visiting my mother, but he did not go. And my mother was in the hospital 10 days.

Barb