Why Do We Have to Keep This Forum Closed?

[Marsha Gupton]

This is something I have wondered about for some time. I would like for Belinda and Barbara Moulton to revisit this issue. I realize that some people are intimidated by the internet.

I could be wrong but it appears that the teen forum is open for all the read. I would be much more cautious of a predator infiltrating a teen forum.

I have several friends that have told me they would love to read W2W but for whatever reason do not want to register but enjoyed reading the old forum.

Marsha

[Gina Stevenson]

Uh, not a moderator, however --- first thing that came to mind was the "biggerbras.com," etc, sorts of possibly embarrassing things that are on here.

Other than that --- more seriously --- there are things women discuss re men that help them. Due to some situations in which women live, it might not be so helpful, were men to view them, as well (not all men, but some ... possibly where the women most need to be able to discuss here without some man seeing it?).

Yeah, teens do need to be careful to not post personal/identifiable things on their board, for sure! So, I understand that concern.

Back to work now.

[Marsha Gupton]

Well, there are men who read this forum regularly. One thing I thought about recently was if we were open perhaps there would be more participants. A person might want to view the forum before they decide to post. Which, I suppose can be done if they register on NN. As I said, my friend Carol, who lives in Georgia loves to read naznet but I can't get her to register. She enjoyed reading the old forum and told me she wished she could read the new forum.

Just a question and a thought. Not wanting to stir up anything. I'm sure many of us are involved in other forums that do not have the security that naznet has.

[Jen Blackburn]

i like the fact that this is a closed forum. there are several threads that i have posted to, that if it were an open forum, i never would have.

i like that it's private, i can talk about things with my "girlfriends" that i don't want nor need the men to see.

i participate on 2 different "mommy" boards online as well, and both are closed. without closed forums, we would feel very uncomfortable posting about all the different subjects we talk about.

i do like the old forum too, and i still go there and post - but am careful about what i post there, because it's open to anyone who's got a computer with internet.

[Andrea Larabee]

OKAY! Someone help the "blonde" down here. I don't understand what you mean by this forum being closed. I still see it on Naznet Central list. I'm still posting on it.

I tried to join the classic W2W forum but it hasn't worked yet. How is that men can't read it... or that it's closed?

Sorry, I'm just a little lost.:o

[Barbara Moulton]

The reality is that a woman's forum on the internet is a place for me to discuss things with and share fellowship with other women. While I like having a predominantly female audience, this is not a place for me to discuss intimate feminine concerns. I reserve that for closed e-mail lists. So whether this forum is open or closed is a moot point for me as far as the things I will write about. (The closest thing to "intimate" I ever posted was about hairy legs. But I don't really care if men know that I don't have to shave my legs as often now that I am older :)

But I do appreciate that there can be a perceived value in having the board closed to men. Safety to express oneself perhaps.

However, there is an unfortunate side effect to this policy.

Let's imagine a woman's group in a church. We don't keep the women's group a secret and only let the women know that we exist once they have made a committment to the larger church. Rather, we publicize our group and maybe even have specific events geared to reach out to women in the community. In this way, the women's group can become an outreach tool. They might come to the women's group and then join the larger church.

With the women's forum remaining closed, it also remains hidden. It appears that we might be missing a whole group of women. Women who are simply looking for a place of Christian fellowship on the net. They stop in at NazNet but don't see our forum. So they move on.

I know that we have the other board but it takes extra steps to find it.

I visit a couple of other forums. Some I have joined so I can post. Some I haven't. But whether I join or not, I still like the idea that I can read some of the posts firsts, to get a feel for the group.

As it stands right now, the number of participants on the women's board are relatively few. I am not sure how to encourage other women to join. Those who are registered on NazNet obviously know we exist but choose not to post here...probably for a variety of reasons.

So, if we are content to remain as we are then keep it closed.

If we want to do all we can to bring women in then we should consider opening it.

My opinion anyways.

[Marsha Gupton]

I share your opinion.

[Dana Grant]

I share your opinion.


I also share your opinion.

Besides, I know for a fact that there are plenty of men who already read it.....so, it's really not THAT closed!!! LOL

[Jen Blackburn]

Besides, I know for a fact that there are plenty of men who already read it.....so, it's really not THAT closed!!! LOL


this makes me very sad, that boundaries cannot be accepted... and will greatly limit what i post from now on.

[Dana Grant]

this makes me very sad, that boundaries cannot be accepted... and will greatly limit what i post from now on.

I'm sorry you feel that way, Jen. However, for myself, I really would never post anything to a message board that I would be embarrassed about if a man would read it. For one thing, I'm not easily embarrassed, and for another thing, if it was that private, then I probably wouldn't post it to ANY board.

I'm sorry if I told you something you didn't want to hear, but on the other hand, I'm glad you know so you won't be upset if you post something and then someone reads it that you hadn't planned on........

Blessings,

[Jen Blackburn]

Dana, i don't think it's that i am *embarrassed* for a man to read what i've posted - i really don't think i've posted anything that detailed or intimate on this board - but some things just need to be between girlfriends. Girlfriends are a very integral, important, special part of my life - without my girlfriends, i'd go crazy :D

and that's what W2W has been for me - a place where i can talk to my girlfriends, be silly, serious, cry about things, toss things out that i want a woman's opinion on, not a man's.

part of my point also is boundaries - you mentioned that you know for a fact that there are "plenty" of men who are already reading the forum. you're telling me that the guys can't help breaking the boundary of it being a closed board? they have to sneak in through their wife's account, (or make up a fake female one, God forbid....)?

boundaries are there for a reason - whether it be something as simple as stopping at a stoplight when it turns red, or things like not bringing lighters on an airplane - the boundaries are there - why break them? because when boundaries get broken, usually someone gets hurt. it's a safety thing.

[Jen Blackburn]

one thing i was just thinking of -

right now, there are not many participants on this board, because there aren't that many women registered....

but how do we let them know about this board? what do you all think? i would love to keep the board closed, but also would like more participation - so perhaps there should be something on naznet central that says that there are women's boards available for registered female members of naznet.

[Barbara Moulton]

one thing i was just thinking of -

right now, there are not many participants on this board, because there aren't that many women registered....

but how do we let them know about this board? what do you all think? i would love to keep the board closed, but also would like more participation - so perhaps there should be something on naznet central that says that there are women's boards available for registered female members of naznet.

Hi Jen:

You've articulated the problem it seems.

I have no objection in principle, to the board being closed so that (for the most part) only women are reading. I just wish there was some way that we could make it more accessible to those who are just visiting NazNet to check the woma'ns forum out and more inviting to those who are already on NazNet.

Any ideas on how we could address those two concerns would be welcome.

I just did a quick count and realized that there are only about 25 women who post on a regular basis to this board. And the majority seem to be women who have been part of NazNet for awhile. That's a pretty small group considering that this is the Internet.

Is the forum serving the purpose in remaining a small intimate group? Would the risk of "opening it up" be balanced by the increased opportunity for others to join? Would it be appropriate to have a poll to get a pulse of how everybody feels?

Inquiring moderator wants to know :)

[Barbara Moulton]

Want to be surprised?

Go to "members list" and click on the "number of posts columns". This sorts the members of NazNet by the number of posts they have made. (I was embarassed to see I am closing in on 2,000)

Anyway, go to the last page (where all the zeros are) and start counting the number of women who have registered but who have never posted at all.

After just three pages I was up to 50.

Extrapolating from that, there could be up to 200 women who have registered to NazNet but have never posted...not only to this board, but to any board.

So we have another question. Is there a way to women who are lurking to become active participants? Or should we just not worry about it?

[Doris Grant]

Why don't you do a poll and see what the majority of the women think, open or closed. Just a thought.

Doris

[Dana Grant]

Why don't you do a poll and see what the majority of the women think, open or closed. Just a thought.

Doris

Not a bad idea, sister-in-law.......

Dana

[Dana Grant]

Jen says: part of my point also is boundaries - you mentioned that you know for a fact that there are "plenty" of men who are already reading the forum. you're telling me that the guys can't help breaking the boundary of it being a closed board? they have to sneak in through their wife's account, (or make up a fake female one, God forbid....)?


Yes, this is true. That is a good point about breaking the boundaries. I guess it just never bothered me that men were reading the women's board. It still doesn't bother me -- but that is a very good point about respecting boundaries. I hadn't thought of it that way before.

Good post.

[Jen Blackburn]

i love that idea, belinda - it involves enough people that hold various views, and would allow us to contact the many, many registered female members of naznet :)

i'd be more than willing to do my part!

[Marsha Gupton]

I do not mind doing a welcome email. However, it appears the forum will remain closed, which greatly concerns me.

[Marsha Gupton]

The other forums are open .... 15 pages of membership. For the percentage of membership compared to participation with other forums that are open - - w2w is doing well.

You have an open forum, Marsha. Why do you need two? Perhaps, some need a closed. Are their needs not important, too?

I think this answers my question. You prefer it remaines closed. Barbara Moulton, co-moderator of this forum made some valid points in her reply. I only wanted this policy to be revisited. It appears that as moderator you are unbending on this.

There are two forums on what I would call the "main" board. The classic naznet forum and the community forum.

[Marsha Gupton]

No - i am not unbending.

i am for only one open forum, though. i see no need for two.

If we open this one - close the other.

You win. I will drop my request. The ladies that post on the classic forum do not feel comfortable in this forum. They do not feel welcomed on this forum. So, out of respect to the ladies who post on the classic forum, I will drop my request that the policy on having a closed forum be reviewed.

[Dana Grant]

*playfully pokes ya* i think *plenty* of men are pulling your chain. :)

i know *a* man who has looked at w2w about three times.
Male moderators occasionally glance but rarely read.

Unless:

1) regular participants are copying/pasting emails to men
2) regular participants are giving their password to men and they are coming in under your name
3) regular participant spouses or significant others are coming under your name

It isn't happening.

:basic07

Pulling my chain or not, I have had private emails that prove differently. I don't know HOW they are getting to the posts, but they are. End of comments.

[Jen Blackburn]

marsha, i am not understanding - you say that the ladies on the classic forum do not feel "comfortable" on this forum - but i don't understand WHO, or WHY, other than the changes in software.

Opening this forum would not change the software issue.

"Most" of the women who post to the classic forum, *also* post to this forum. Loraine, you, Dana, Doris, Sarah, me, Donna, Barb B, Barabara Phillip.... there are only one or two that post ocassionally on the classic forum that don't *post* here.

perhaps you are indicating that there are women who READ the classic forum who can't read here, and they are disappointed that they can't.... all it takes for them to read this forum is for them to register. i don't understand why that is such a big deal... they can even make themselves invisible if they don't want to be seen as being here!

i, too, would love it if there were more participants on this forum, but i honestly don't see who they would be - as the ones who post at the classic forum are the same that post on this forum, just under different types of subjects.

i think the idea of an email inviting and reminding all the female registered members of naznet is a great idea :)

[Dana Grant]

May i suggest a committee of four be established to form an email that will be mailed to each female who registers at NazNet. Inviting them to participating, asking them what their interest are but most importantly - asking them how we may pray for them?

i think it would be nice for a copy of the final draft of the email to be posted here for us to see. The email would be representing us. :)

i suggest the committee to be

Barbara Moulton
Marsha Gupton
Jen Blackburn
Dana Gant

Uh, no disrespect intended, but I am really not interested in being on such a committee. Thanks for the suggestion, however.

[Sara Sheppard]

I don't care one way or the other if this forum is open or closed. I tend to post to the other forum more often. Not sure why, just do...(I hate change is probably the main reason..LOL).

However, the reality is, nothing on the internet is really CLOSED. Anyone who wants too see it - can and will find a way. I have also rec'd emails that tell me that men DO read this forum. Don't know how..but they do. So, I would suggest that having it closed doesn't actually keep anyone out if they want in bad enough. In other words, assume that your posts are being read by men.

Like I said, either way is fine with me. I see positive/negatives on both sides. Except, I would say, that if keeping it closed is somehow for making women feel safer to posts in an enviornment that men don't - then that is false security. Men do read it.

Sara

[Gina Stevenson]

GREAT idea! There's just something about a "personal invitation" that a regular "welcome page" here just could not accomplish. ;)


May i suggest a committee of four be established to form an email that will be mailed to each female who registers at NazNet. Inviting them to participating, asking them what their interest are but most importantly - asking them how we may pray for them?

i think it would be nice for a copy of the final draft of the email to be posted here for us to see. The email would be representing us. :)

i suggest the committee to be

Barbara Moulton
Marsha Gupton
Jen Blackburn
Dana Gant

[Barbara Moulton]

Why don't you do a poll and see what the majority of the women think, open or closed. Just a thought.

Doris

I think this would be a good idea. Before we start investing any more energy in the topic it would be nice to know how everyone felt on the matter.

Other than that, my suggestions are either:
a) make our board open.

or

b) do these three things
1. Have a letter of welcome as Belinda suggested. (I like that idea and think it would be appropriate even if this forum was to become open.)
2. Change the W2W link to say something like "Women's Classic Forum" ...so that visitors know what it is. As it stands right now, if a non-registered viewer is on NazNet she doesn't see the "womens forum" link and she only sees a link to "W2W". It's sort of coded language. We know that W2W stands for Women to Women. The visitor might not. As a result, she has no way of knowing that there is any woman's forum
3. Have a note at the top of the classic board inviting women who might wish to discuss things in a closed setting to join us through registration.

[Anita F. Henck]

I first became involved with Naznet at least 10 years ago. Then, I became a participant in W2W. I have rarely posted on this newer women's forum. I don't understand its purpose. And, I really don't understand its purpose as a closed forum.

My recollection of reading this periodically over the last year is that it typically includes the following ...
... a series of questions that are posted for people to answer. That seems to duplicate the Poll function on the new Naznet.
... some word association games. That seems to duplicate much of what is posted on the "Good Clean Fun" board.
... some prayer requests. Some (but not all) are cross-posted to Naznet and/or the special Prayer board.
... assorted updates on family and church situations. These I have enjoyed and have prayed for many of your families and situations over the years, often without letting you know that.
... some chatty girlfriend posts.

All of these have their place. But, it doesn't really seem to me to be strongly geared toward fellowship, conversation, or the like. I would personally never add to the chatty girlfriend type stuff because I know that the internet affords NO privacy. And, with all due respect, sometimes I've been embarrassed to realize that some of the post-ers don't realize just how widely read their discussions are. I've been at denomination-wide meetings and heard people talk about Naznet, including some of the W2W posts. This is from folks I've never seen post on Naznet OR here. Even a closed forum has wide open windows.

I think that, without a specific mission or direction, this is just a place for a (small) group of friends to chat. That is fine. But, those are the kinds of things for which I've formed email groups. That way I *know* the posters, they learn my heart, and we stay in contact in a system that allows bonding and trust to build.

Bottom line, I'm not sure I'm clear what the purpose of W2W is all about. But, it doesn't appear to have much opportunity for growth without a clearly defined purpose and less of a sense of a closed group.

That may be what is desired. But, that is not a reason for me to post frequently.

But, I do regularly pray for what I see on the board.

Just one person's perspective,
==anita==

[Barbara Moulton]

.....I think that, without a specific mission or direction, this is just a place for a (small) group of friends to chat. That is fine. But, those are the kinds of things for which I've formed email groups. That way I *know* the posters, they learn my heart, and we stay in contact in a system that allows bonding and trust to build.

Bottom line, I'm not sure I'm clear what the purpose of W2W is all about. But, it doesn't appear to have much opportunity for growth without a clearly defined purpose and less of a sense of a closed group.

That may be what is desired. But, that is not a reason for me to post frequently.

But, I do regularly pray for what I see on the board.

Just one person's perspective,
==anita==


Thanks for your thoughts Anita. I would agree with your summary of the content of the new women's forum. In fact, although I didn't go to the old board very often, it seems that there were more posts of a personal nature on it, even though it was open, then I find on this new forum.

The reason I didn't go to the original W2W board very often (with the old software) was that I found the fellowship and stimulation of the other boards were all I really needed. Once in awhile, I would go to the women's board if I wanted to discuss something that would benefit from a women's perspective. But that really wasn't very often.

Like you I feel that the really personal stuff should only be shared in an e-mail group and (obviously) with the flesh and blood women in my life.

But, with the new software, the women's forum was "right there" when I came on to NazNet community. New posts on the women's forum showed up along with new posts from other forums. Since it was more accessible and inviting, I started checking it out a little bit more.

But still, my posting has never been as active on this forum as on the Community forums. I entered into some of the games once in awhile, mainly to try and fit in, but my heart wasn't in it :) My main reason in posting or responding on the women's board would be if it was a subject I really wanted to talk about with other women. But the forum being "closed" did not make it a more attractive place for me.

When we started with this software, I thought that the W2W board was kept open, along with the other discussion forums, simply to give people an opportunity to make a transistion to the new software. The owner and moderators wisely deciding not to simply tell everyone that they had to go to the new place.

It's interesting to note that the Bresee forum soon was closed for lack of participation. The Wesley forum continues to exist but it gets relatively few posts. I just checked it and it really is obviously no longer a forum that gets any real attention.

Classic W2W on the other hand, continues to be a place where people actively post. But they are mainly the same women who post to the new forum.

Why have most participants in the community board forums been able to make the transition while women seem torn between the two?

I'll be honest. I admit to feeling somewhat confused. We have two forums. One open. One closed. The same women (with few exceptions) post to both. I see no evidence that women post things of a more personal nature on the closed board then the open board. (In fact, a case could be made for the opposite).

You ask about the purpose of this forum. To me its the same as the purpose of the old forum. Fellowship, encouragement and sharing among women.

Maybe part of the problem is making it a "closed forum" gives the impression that it should have some mission above and beyond that straightforward purpose. But if that is the case, it hasn't happened.

If it was just me I would have one, open forum, readily accessible with the new software.

But it's not just about me is it? :)

[Dana Grant]

In response to Anita's post -- I think it is hilarious that people are worried about what someone might find out about them from a public forum. Why people post anything that would be harmful to their reputation, I will never understand. Even if I posted something about my business or my clients here, there would be nothing I would ever say here that I could not say to my clients. I would never post anything like that, plain and simple. I remember when we were having problems with our church and making major decisions about whether to stay or not. I asked for prayer about it, but there was never anything that I posted that I would be ashamed or embarrassed if my pastor or someone from my church read it. I just don't post like that. I purposely did not put details of the situation that would embarrass my pastor or myself if someone from my church happened to read NazNet. So, if my clients or employer or pastor or church friends have nothing better to do than searches for Dana Grant, I'm afraid they'd be sorely disappointed!


Now, having said that, there are a few people on this board who have become true friends of mine in real life. If I have something to say to them of a personal nature, I email them privately.

For me, coming to NazNet is a fun thing to do during breaks from work, etc. I really don't keep up with everyone's life here. Those people who I have met in real life at one of the retreats, which have been so much fun and special to me, I keep up with them as much as I can, and a few have become friends "in real life." One of the reasons I continue to go to the other board is because there is not as much nonsense as there is here. There aren't that many "games" or whatever, which I have always felt like those were put up on the board to take up space, anyway. We enjoy each other's company and have good laughs, but it is not so juvenile there. It feels more like "family" there than it does here.

The only reason I ever respond to a post on the woman's board here is when it comes up in the "new posts" -- because I never visit the women's board specifically. If there is a post that looks interesting, I read it, respond to it, and THEN I find out that it was on the W2W board! It's not a place I specifically point and click to read. I do, however, purposefully visit the old board, because I know more of those women personally, I suppose.

Anyway, whether the board is closed or open, people can still find out what is going on one way or another. I really hope that we don't go into the "statement of purpose" or "mission statement" or all of that -- that would just ruin it for me. I have to be completely organized and business-like and professional for my clients in my work, so it is nice to have a place to come where I can just have fun and be Dana and not worry about the "mission statement" and all of that "stuff." I would probably not participate in something like that.

I must sign off for now, because I'm working at the hospital tonight and it's time to get back to work....besides, I've said enough.

[Barbara Moulton]

I like your thoughts Dana. (Big surprise)

You seem to confirm what I said though. That, surprisingly, you feel more like it is family in a forum that is open.

Hmmmm.....

Can we not have that here in an open forum? Is the software that restrictive for people? Does the background colour and design (which is nice I know) make that much a difference?

[Dana Grant]

I like your thoughts Dana. (Big surprise)

You seem to confirm what I said though. That, surprisingly, you feel more like it is family in a forum that is open.

Hmmmm.....

Can we not have that here in an open forum? Is the software that restrictive for people? Does the background colour and design (which is nice I know) make that much a difference?

You know, I don't know how to make things more comfortable here. It seems that more arguments break out on this new board than the old one. We just don't see that on the other board. I feel more relaxed when I read the other board. Background? Maybe -- it is lovely. For me it is not a matter of the new software because I have become accepting of the new software, really.

I don't have any answers -- but I do have some chicken with melted cheese sitting here getting cold.......LOL

Interesting discussion, for sure.

[Marsha Gupton]

The only thing I have been able to come up regarding the old board vs this one (and I post on both), is that many of us bonded on the old board.

Many of us have met each other from that board and have formed "real time" friendships. Perhaps that is one reason. Another could be that the two retreats were birthed from the old board and many bonded at the retreats.

Just thinking.

[Anita F. Henck]

Perhaps it wasn't clear which question I was answering. I'm not a "regular" so shouldn't set the agenda for this board. I was simply addressing the issue of why so many people are registered and so few post.

I can respect different opinions that have been expressed on this, but I happen to think that a simple mission statement (one sentence) could help focus the group. I've done that with Sunday School classes, work teams, and committees. Sometimes group dynamics can take on a life of their own and focus can be lost. It doesn't have to feel "corporate" or like a business. But, it could give an identifying reason for the board's existence and confirm if it is open to all participants or only those with certain shared experiences.

In reflecting, I would say that I really don't understand having two boards. As an outsider, it has always had the look and feel of a church split and two tiny churches ended up in the same town, with neither growing. But, that is only my perception.

Just a final thought ... It is often mentioned that the retreat has bonded a number of ladies on this board. That is a good thing but I hope not a defining thing for the board itself. Otherwise, those who couldn't afford to go, those whose schedules didn't allow it, or those who are new since that time will always be an "outsider" because they weren't part of the original event.

It is good to celebrate God's goodness and presence. But, occasionally the church gets stuck in remembering the past, rather than celebrating God's continued goodness. He is good ALL THE TIME!

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

Perhaps it wasn't clear which question I was answering. I'm not a "regular" so shouldn't set the agenda for this board. I was simply addressing the issue of why so many people are registered and so few post.


Thank you, Anita, for clarifying your personal purpose for sharing your input. i do trust that it will go beyond this and you will participate with us in days ahead.


I can respect different opinions that have been expressed on this, but I happen to think that a simple mission statement (one sentence) could help focus the group. I've done that with Sunday School classes, work teams, and committees. Sometimes group dynamics can take on a life of their own and focus can be lost. It doesn't have to feel "corporate" or like a business. But, it could give an identifying reason for the board's existence and confirm if it is open to all participants or only those with certain shared experiences.



If i am understanding you correctly - you aren't suggesting a rule book to be established but rather a common ground? Something from which we would all be in agreement is the goal of w2w. For example: The statement could be something like - "A place to relax and unwind after a long day of responsiblities"?

[Sara Sheppard]

I can't put my finger on what it is about the old board that appeals to me more. I think it is the overall tone of the board. This "feels" like a message board, like a distant conversation - that feels more like a conversation that just continues. A room people are walking in and walking out.

Let me try to explain the difference in an odd way:

Old Board - open it and it feels like a room where you hear all the conversations AND see people involved. Feels like there are PEOPLE there. USUALLY on the old board I can easily see, at a glance if the conversation looks funny/serious/took a turn to another topic because I can see each person's "header" at a glance.

New Board - open it and feels like walking into a room with lots of tiny doors. On the door is a conversation heading. Since I'm short on time and can't visit all the rooms, I'm forced to pick a room and go in. I may find out that the conversation is now a joke instead of the serious topic I thought it was or now its more a conversation b/t two people.

I don't know...it is hard to say for sure.

I agree with Dana that for whatever reason, good or bad, this board felt more like games and arguments. More like a "playground" at school. While the other board had more conversation like I would have sitting around a table with ladies enjoying a cup of coffee.

Anita, you are right about some of making sure we don't get stuck in a "retreat" rut. Sometimes its easier to hang with people you know just because you know them. That is a good reminder.

I've been fortunate to meet many naznetters at retreats and other functions so I think I've probably met at least 50-60% of the ladies who post on both boards. I hope to meet all of you someday. ;)

Sara

[Barbara Moulton]

Just a final thought ... It is often mentioned that the retreat has bonded a number of ladies on this board. That is a good thing but I hope not a defining thing for the board itself. Otherwise, those who couldn't afford to go, those whose schedules didn't allow it, or those who are new since that time will always be an "outsider" because they weren't part of the original event.

It is good to celebrate God's goodness and presence. But, occasionally the church gets stuck in remembering the past, rather than celebrating God's continued goodness. He is good ALL THE TIME!

I can recall many times going to the old board and it seemed that threads were dominated with the retreat discussion (both pre and post). That was a completely natural thing to happen and I didn't resent it at all. However, as someone who could not attend, I couldn't help but feel a little like an "outsider looking in". I know much about the spirits of the women who post to NazNet and I know that nobody ever would have wanted me to feel like that. So please understand this isn't your issue it's my issue.

But because I felt like an outsider, I went to that board less and less.

So a closeness developed on the board that I never felt part of. In truth, it was the one thing that made me hesitate in offering to help Belinda with the moderating. A sense that I wasn't as connected with all of you as much as you are with each other. I thought I might be viewed as an interloper.

Writing this out has helped me understand why the new forum was more attractive to me. New place, maybe some new people would join us as well. It was like a fresh new place for me to go to. And because of the "new post" feature, I felt like I kept being constantly being invited to participate in the discussion. I was being "invited in" rather than feeling like I was "looking in".

Unfortunately, because the old board was not a big part of my NazNet experience in the past, I keep forgetting that it is there. Once in awhile I remember it and go there and think to myself, "Oh right...THIS is where people are doing some real talking." :)

So I read a bit and my feeling of disconnect increases because of all the things that have been discussed over there that I know nothing about. For example: I read Dana's post there about her upcoming orthaepedic appointment and realized that I didn't know she had a problem with her shoulders. That kind of thing happens all the time because I forget to divide my time between the two boards.

[Marsha Gupton]

As one of the retreat coordinators perhaps I need to apologize for giving the appearance of having outsiders. I do know that was never anyone's conscious attempt. Of course the retreat I coordinated was six years ago. The last retreat was three years ago I think. At the last retreat we had a lurker attend.

Some times things just cannot be explained logically. Perhaps some may have suggestions if there is another retreat how to post without those unable to attend feeling like outsiders.

[Barbara Moulton]

As one of the retreat coordinators perhaps I need to apologize for giving the appearance of having outsiders. I do know that was never anyone's conscious attempt. Of course the retreat I coordinated was six years ago. The last retreat was three years ago I think. At the last retreat we had a lurker attend.

Some times things just cannot be explained logically. Perhaps some may have suggestions if there is another retreat how to post without those unable to attend feeling like outsiders.

THERE IS NOTHING to apologize for! Like I said, it was my issue, not the fault of the women who obviously wanted to talk about their plans and the time that they had spent together.

Having said that, going a year with two boards now has not increased the sense of connection.

I am not sure what the answer is.

[Marsha Gupton]

I've also been trying to think of what we would want a ladies board to be. I have not been able to think of anything. Maybe that is because I have been sick this week.

One thought I have had is that a women's board should be many things just as we have various participants with different personality styles. My personality is laid back and easy going while others like more structure.

Has anyone been involved in another christian women's forum? I did look online in the past to see if there was anything out there similar to what we have. The closest I found was a Baptist Christian Women's board. However, I could not post because I am not Baptist. They used the same software that NN uses, but to post on the Women's board you had to email the moderator and their rule was that you had to be a member of the Baptist church. southern baptist.

[Barbara Moulton]

I've been fortunate to meet many naznetters at retreats and other functions so I think I've probably met at least 50-60% of the ladies who post on both boards. I hope to meet all of you someday. ;)

Sara

You are one of the four women on this board that I have met in person. :-)

[Dana Grant]

So I read a bit and my feeling of disconnect increases because of all the things that have been discussed over there that I know nothing about. For example: I read Dana's post there about her upcoming orthaepedic appointment and realized that I didn't know she had a problem with her shoulders. That kind of thing happens all the time because I forget to divide my time between the two boards.


Barbara Moulton -- you are one of my favorite people on NazNet!! In fact, sometimes I come here just to read your posts, because you are so articulate in sharing your feelings and important points on any given topic. And yes, I'm sure that "retreat" talk probably permeated the board for weeks before and after. I guess it is only natural for this to happen, but never in a million years would we want to make anyone feel left out, and I'm sorry that happened to you.

Now, about my shoulder -- Well, I've been having this pain in my shoulder now for months and months -- feeling very close kinship with Sara these days, LOL -- and I've been going through physical therapy and anti-inflammatory medications like they are candy, and nothing is helping.

Only one thing so far has alleviated the pain -- WALKING. I can walk forever and not have any pain. But within an hour after stopping walking, the pain returns full force. I am considering that now would be a good time to do a cross-country walk for some kind of charity!! LOL Since Saturday, I have walked 26 miles. At the hospital last night I was working, and every couple of hours I got up and walked the 1/2 mile trek that is posted on the walls of the hospital (Little signs that lead you around the halls saying "WALK TMC" -- pretty cool).......

So that's my story. Now you know.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion........

LOL

[Dana Grant]

As one of the retreat coordinators perhaps I need to apologize for giving the appearance of having outsiders. I do know that was never anyone's conscious attempt. Of course the retreat I coordinated was six years ago. The last retreat was three years ago I think. At the last retreat we had a lurker attend.

Some times things just cannot be explained logically. Perhaps some may have suggestions if there is another retreat how to post without those unable to attend feeling like outsiders.


And she's still a lurker!!!! LOL -- Come out, come out wherever you are, you know who you are!!!

Anyway, she fit in as though she'd been best friends with the rest of NazNet for years!! And she HAS -- we just hadn't met her yet. But it was so cute how she knew things about all of us -- and before too long, we knew things about her!! I STILL pray for her each time I use my coffee cup that she brought to the retreat.

[Barbara Moulton]

Now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion........

LOL

Three things.

Like I said to Marsah, don't feel sorry about the retreat talk.

Your shoulder thing is weird. I have lived most of myr life with some kind of joint pain (mine has travelled to various parts of my body for years...ankles, knees, neck, wrist). For me it's like a little medical surprise. Which part of my body will hurt this week? All this to say that I know how discouraging it can be to have continual pain. But it is really weird that walking relieves the pain.

You are one of my favorite people too. I feel like we have a great deal in common. Not the least is our mutual admiration of each other's dogs :)

[Barbara Moulton]

I want to say that I think this thread has been an excellent example of helpful dialogue.

We aren't all on the same page. That's for sure. But the respect and care for each other's opinions seems strongly evident.

Kudos!

[Anita F. Henck]

Barbara, I think two words you used here are key -- dialogue and respect.

Sometimes this board feels like a bulletin board with posts that aren't conversations. As someone said earlier, for a long time, this board became a place with lots of games or questions to answer but not a lot of sharing from the heart or the person.

I like to think and, as a teacher, I think and share my thoughts for a living. But, it is nice to have a place to come and, in a cyberspace sort of way, kick up my feet, wear comfy clothes, and be able to talk about everything from recipes to a scripture I've seen in a new way, to planning ahead for the holidays. It is something that comes naturally, rather than needing direction or rules.

Speaking of sharing from the heart -- my bias always is towards making people feel welcome. I don't think that always means thanking people for their posts (although that is nice), or even always following up when they post. But, it means valuing people and allowing them to bring to the group what they are able to do at that point in their life. It means no hierarchy. It means support. And, it means sharing our concerns and our praises.

Just some thoughts. Today was a stay-at-home-for-repairmen and then run-errands type of day, so I've had lots of time to think and pray about all of this.

==anita==

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

If this were a real room - and not a cyber room - i would envision a relaxing atmosphere where one could sit back as Anita has described ---

But

i can see the room being not just respectful and dialoguing but also accepting of how we don't all relax the same way. Some do enjoy games. Some do enjoy a variety of conversation styles.

So, i can visualize a game table to one side -
i can visualize a few gathered around the coffee pot
i can see a few curled up watching a movie
i can see some hanging out around the chip and dip - (or healthy stuff - if you wanta)

i can see some just cozy on the sofa with easy conversations.

AND

i can even from time to time seeing all of us turning attention for praises, prayers and possibly a Bible Study.

[Anita F. Henck]

Yvonne, I would gladly email you privately but your profile does not include an email address. So, I will need to reply here.

With all due respect, your post above is a bit concerning. There is good dialogue going on today on this board. Numbers of people have posted ideas.

Rather than consensus being built, you seem to have decided how things will be. That may not be your intent. But, it doesn't seem that you are allowing participants to be a part of the decision. Sadly, it often feels that way when I post here. Thus, my absence of a year or more.

I was encouraged by today's dialogue that went to a second page. That has not happened on here in a long time.

I regret that a moderator then appears to shut down discussion and announce how things will be.

Could the participants continue the dialogue for a bit longer before a single person decides? Or, perhaps I am mistaken and you and Barbara, as co-moderators have reached consensus together.

Again, I wish I could email you privately. But, without that address being provided, it doesn't seem possible.

I learned a long time ago as a leader that my best work happened when I facilitated people getting together and let them resolve issues together. I saw that happening earlier today. Please give it a chance.

Specifically, when W2W has included so many games that it became confused with the Good Clean Fun board, it lost considerable fellowship space and interest. Couldn't that board be a good place for games for those who want to be regular game-ers? Just an idea. I'm not saying that we would never have ANY games but that it might be much less frequent. This is just one of the ideas that has been presented today (by others than myself). Maybe there are other ways to make W2W better? Could the dialogue continue before a decision is announced?

Thanks for your consideration of a different point of view.

Blessings,

==anita==

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

wow

my intent was to give a thought like you did, Anita

You described a atmosphere of what you could see - that is what i read.

i tried to do the same.....

my post wasn't a moderator post - my post was a participant post

perhaps this is part of the problem - *i* can't participate. Others are free to give their thoughts and opinions. Others are gifted in writing lengthy descriptions. i post in short phrases. Perhaps, this is everyone else's board but not mine, too.


my email should be there

yvonne61@wideopenwest.com - as always

[Anita F. Henck]

Thanks, Yvonne. Actually, your profile has not had an address for some time. You might want to check that out if you want it corrected.

What I read was "this can't be done" and "here is what I envision" before others even had a chance to respond to my idea (I was posting in reply to your question of earlier today as to what I thought). So, right or wrong, it felt like as soon as I posted, I was declared "out of order" with my answer.

And, I always read your posts as being from the moderator, not from a private individual. Perhaps there could be a way that is clarified, so it doesn't look like a top down decision, but, rather a come-along-side voice? I apologize if I missed the distinction. It is sometimes hard to know.

Thanks for your consideration of my voice.
==anita==

[Marsha Gupton]

I would think that this forum would be for all; moderator and participants alike. Somewhat like Southwest airlines which is employee owned.

I remember when Brenda Nixon would post on the old board tidbits for Mothers. I thought that was good even though I am not a Mother; I enjoyed reading her posts.

I like the idea of the Welcome Letter. Many of the ladies on this forum are active in their church's women's ministries so I am sure there are some creative ideas.

[Barb Bouldrey]

I have been away with welcoming Stephen home from Iraq, helping my sick mother and now this week with my mother's death and funeral.

Going back many posts, my feelings about the two women's forums equal what Sara has written. The older forum seems more "sisterly and friendly," while this forum seems more formal...like the room with many doors Sara mentioned.

I like opening the old forum and immediately seeing who has responded to what post and which responses are new since I last read...and who responded. It is a FASTER read.

I like both forums and both styles.

I do not care if either of them is open or closed.

I think that if someone wants to read they should just register. I do not see any reason not to register. I do not ever look at the names of those registered...and do not know where to find the list of those registered.

I do not care if men read the women's forums...if they are that bored. LOL

What I do not like about the old forum is when men POST on that forum. I believe that men, even a moderator, should not post on a women's forum.

I would also be upset if a man read my post on a women's forum and then emailed me about something I said there.

I have not participated in the many games and lists because I am on dial-up and do not want to tie up my phone line with trivia. There seems to be more trivia on this forum.

We get into silly discussions on silly subjects occasionally. I enjoy that...on both forums.

When I want to discuss something more personal I usually go to the old forum. It just seems cozier to me.

Barb

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

Acceptance - -

i am the least among you. Often i am told how i mess things up and say things out of line - misjudge a situation - whatever - - Shoot - there are things i don't like about myself, too. i know you don't have this problem - but - well - i do.

There was a time where i tried to change myself to be more acceptable.

But - i have this other problem. It is the problem of when i am in the company of someone i want to impress - my slip is always showing or i trip and fall - or i do something incredibly stupid and immature.

so - - as a result i have made mistakes and blunders here.

i've asked for forgiveness from time to time - and sometimes it is accepted and sometimes it is ignored.

i really need to be in bed asleep for i have to get up very early tomorrow to go hug babies. But, - well - i have another problem. Sometimes when negative things prop up before bedtime, i keep replaying tapes of negative stuff. i know it is silly and i am sure that most of you have learned how to stop the tapes but - well - tonight i keep hitting stop on the tape player but it keeps playing.

Perhaps, this is a reason i love my babies. They haven't heard all the horrible things about me - and they just love me as i am.

As i went to bed tonight and prayed - asking Jesus to somehow make lemonade outa all my lemons. (why did He have to give me so many) - -

i wondered this - i wondered if perhaps - when i can be accepted like i am - bumps/bruises/ quirks - - without all the *reading* of Belinda - maybe all women who come here can be accepted as they are, too.

Because you aren't reading it right. We, women, have intuition and other stuff- but they don't work the same here online.

For example: The night i came home after the two hour drive in the inner city of Detroit - i posted posts to aid me in unwinding. Had nothing to do with anyone. One emailed to me and i told them i was unwinding. i wasn't believed and a huge campaign was launched. i was shocked.

i didn't say - because it wasn't *prudent* for me to say why i was posting those posts.

Time has evolved and things are restored in the areas of concern that night - so i will tell you .....

We had heard on the unit of the detour through the *gang* area. Every other nurse (or so it seemed to me) had their significant others or spouse call and give them a detour around the detour. Not me. i was told to go through the detour. i followed the instructions given to me - as i feel and felt i should.

When i came home - i wasn't angry - i was tired - i was sad - i was lonely and discouraged.

i came to the board and saw a discussion that was handled...

i went off exploring the net - -*preaching to myself* about forgiving another time. i remember distinctly posting that night - -a devotional about forgiving 70x7 ... remember because you see - i lead worship and i was in no position to lead worship the next morning. i had to get over my pout and my disappointment and my expectations and my - -- well, the list could go on but - you are bored already.

i couldn't talk on the board that night -
i couldn't explain - it wasn't proper

why here - and not an email list - or call a friend

well, it was late - -

i mess up
i get up
i mess up
i get up

Acceptance - is the only thing we all want or need. The freedom to not be evaluated and put under a microscope for every jot and tittle.

May i ask that the hatch be buried....

Now - i will dry my tears and try to sleep - a baby will need me tomorrow.



ps - yes, i have been apologied to for being sent through the rough part of Detroit with less than half a tank of gas. :fav18

[Judy Hamilton]

Why not just open this forum and welcome ladies to join..this seems to becoming a we-ladies-no-and-want-no-more place to visit. Other women cannot even lurk on this forum to ponder if they want to become part of this community of ladies. In this manner we are restrictive..

i cannot recall a large problem when naznet was with the other
software and the women's board was open to all women.

and in case anyone is curious..no, i have not visited with Marsha privately about the question in this thread

i just cannot see the efficiacy/purpose of keeping this a
closed community

Judy

[Barbara Moulton]

As I have read through this thread it kept coming to me that the real issue isn't whether this forum is open or closed. This real issue is the continuing old board/new board dynamic.

So here's a question and two follow up questions. No agenda...just wanting to know where we all stand.

Do you think that the transition can be made to this board? (With the understanding that this board would become "open")

If yes, how could that happen?
If no, what can we do to develop connection and unity?

Like I said, no agenda. Just trying to see how we can work towards a solution that most can be happy with. (20 years in ministry has taught me that we can never have 100% of participants completely happy)

Blessings,
Barbara

[Judy Hamilton]

OKAY! Someone help the "blonde" down here. I don't understand what you mean by this forum being closed. I still see it on Naznet Central list. I'm still posting on it.

I tried to join the classic W2W forum but it hasn't worked yet. How is that men can't read it... or that it's closed?

Sorry, I'm just a little lost.:o

Andrea

The classic w2w women's board is not a closed board you are so welcomed to click on the classic board and talk to the ladies
Barb Bouldry, Marsha, Sara and Dana are some of the ladies that fellowship on the classic forum

on the other hand this forum the one you are on now is the closed board and the topic of this thread. The reason you can post and interact on this forum is you are registered (necessary to do on a closed board) and those who have not registered (men not alowed to register) and any women who have not registered JUST on this board cannot lurk or post here

hope this is clearer than mud:basic02

Judy

Judy:basic02

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

As I have read through this thread it kept coming to me that the real issue isn't whether this forum is open or closed. This real issue is the continuing old board/new board dynamic.

So here's a question and two follow up questions. No agenda...just wanting to know where we all stand.

Do you think that the transition can be made to this board? (With the understanding that this board would become "open")

If yes, how could that happen?
If no, what can we do to develop connection and unity?

Like I said, no agenda. Just trying to see how we can work towards a solution that most can be happy with. (20 years in ministry has taught me that we can never have 100% of participants completely happy)

Blessings,
Barbara

Thank you, Barbara, for keeping the dialogue going.

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

Thanks, Yvonne. Actually, your profile has not had an address for some time. You might want to check that out if you want it corrected.


The moderators have checked it out. i am being told that one must be logged into get my email.

And, I always read your posts as being from the moderator, not from a private individual. Perhaps there could be a way that is clarified, so it doesn't look like a top down decision, but, rather a come-along-side voice? I apologize if I missed the distinction. It is sometimes hard to know.

Thanks for your consideration of my voice.
==anita==

Thank you for allowing me to know how you always read my posts. As for myself, whenever i have meant a post to be a moderator post i have always posted it with that verbage in it; either as a title or within the post. All my other posts (which is 99% of them) have all been meant with the intent of *coming along side*.

i apologize for the confusion.

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

Would it help if i posted in a different color font when i am speaking in what i would consider a moderator voice?

[Judy Hamilton]

Acceptance - -

i am the least among you. Often i am told how i mess things up and say things out of line - misjudge a situation - whatever - - Shoot - there are things i don't like about myself, too. i know you don't have this problem - but - well - i do.

There was a time where i tried to change myself to be more acceptable.

But - i have this other problem. It is the problem of when i am in the company of someone i want to impress - my slip is always showing or i trip and fall - or i do something incredibly stupid and immature.

so - - as a result i have made mistakes and blunders here.

i've asked for forgiveness from time to time - and sometimes it is accepted and sometimes it is ignored.

i really need to be in bed asleep for i have to get up very early tomorrow to go hug babies. But, - well - i have another problem. Sometimes when negative things prop up before bedtime, i keep replaying tapes of negative stuff. i know it is silly and i am sure that most of you have learned how to stop the tapes but - well - tonight i keep hitting stop on the tape player but it keeps playing.

Perhaps, this is a reason i love my babies. They haven't heard all the horrible things about me - and they just love me as i am.

As i went to bed tonight and prayed - asking Jesus to somehow make lemonade outa all my lemons. (why did He have to give me so many) - -

i wondered this - i wondered if perhaps - when i can be accepted like i am - bumps/bruises/ quirks - - without all the *reading* of Belinda - maybe all women who come here can be accepted as they are, too.

Because you aren't reading it right. We, women, have intuition and other stuff- but they don't work the same here online.

For example: The night i came home after the two hour drive in the inner city of Detroit - i posted posts to aid me in unwinding. Had nothing to do with anyone. One emailed to me and i told them i was unwinding. i wasn't believed and a huge campaign was launched. i was shocked.

i didn't say - because it wasn't *prudent* for me to say why i was posting those posts.

Time has evolved and things are restored in the areas of concern that night - so i will tell you .....

We had heard on the unit of the detour through the *gang* area. Every other nurse (or so it seemed to me) had their significant others or spouse call and give them a detour around the detour. Not me. i was told to go through the detour. i followed the instructions given to me - as i feel and felt i should.

When i came home - i wasn't angry - i was tired - i was sad - i was lonely and discouraged.

i came to the board and saw a discussion that was handled...



i mess up
i get up
i mess up
i get up

Acceptance - is the only thing we all want or need. The freedom to not be evaluated and put under a microscope for every jot and tittle.

May i ask that the hatch be buried....

Now - i will dry my tears and try to sleep - a baby will need me tomorrow.

ps - yes, i have been apologied to for being sent through the rough part of Detroit with less than half a tank of gas. :fav18

Belinda

Do we not each one have saintified feet of clay???
please consider to just accept responsibility when it
is in your court to do so and cease with a litany of excuses.


as i said we are all each one of us falliable people
and as humans we all do make blunders.
In nursing I have to say "I did it" "I overlooked this
symptom"
"I made a bad call..or my judgment was not good in this
situation" ...there is no leisure for excuses


we can learn from our errors and are better for the
lessons learned
when I as a nurse do not own my errors
and I bathe them in excuses
then there is the chance that i will find myself on
this same path, perhaps in another senario
on another day.on another shift,
in another hospital..you get the
picture.

as a nurse i hope you would relate to this allegory
and take it to heart for the inevitable time
when as a nurse you make an inaccurate assessment
and made an error.

You are loved..by us Belinda

we want to love on you and know your frustrations
we need calm, focused clarity between you and other
women on this board. and we want
community with each other without backing
out or closing of a thread in exasperation

Judy

PS

I agree with Anita that also have noted that "Games" seem to disrupt
sincere communication..and I like the suggestion of playing games
be relagated to the fun board. It is almost like
one is wanting to communicate something on their heart and
the atmosphere is shallow . In this case I would
choose to not open up to share my concerns

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

we need calm, focused clarity between you and other
women on this board. and we want
community with each other without backing
out or closing of a thread in exasperation

Judy

Thank you for sharing.

It will be done.

[Donna Adams]

I don't post here often because this forum/board is dominated by just a few. I don't know the reason behind that, but it's uncomfortable for me.

[Barbara Moulton]

I don't post here often because this forum/board is dominated by just a few. I don't know the reason behind that, but it's uncomfortable for me.


I appreciate what you are saying but with only 25 (approximate) women actively taking part in this forum, there aren't that many people to post...if you compare it with the other forums. So if I post here as often as I post on the other forums, it might look like I am dominating...when the reality is that it is just a smaller pool :-)

Blessings,
Barbara

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

I don't post here often because this forum/board is dominated by just a few. I don't know the reason behind that, but it's uncomfortable for me.

i apologize.

i have posted a lot.

Why? i sit here and study for about two hours at a time - take a break and post a couple posts - go back to studying for another couple hours - another break...

thus - why i average around 7 posts a day to the site.

didn't mean it as dominating....

just a part of my survival skills.

Sorry that it offended - -

i will keep naznet turned off during study times.

[LoraineStanton]

Wow! Eight pages in only four days!
Good discussion
Tough issue
IF this forum is closed, some that might enjoy participating won't find it
IF this forum is open, some who already participate won't be as comfortable.
Is there another compromise other than having one open and one closed forum like we do now?
Then comes the issue of the two forums in general.
I love both forums and do not want to loose either one.

[Sara Sheppard]

I personally am ok with leaving the two boards as they are. I do like the suggestion (can't remember who made it) of chaning the "wording" on the main page from W2W to something like "Women's Discussion Board" for the old board. New commers might not have a clue what W2W means and never click on it.

Sara

[Donna Adams]

Anita said:"Just a final thought ... It is often mentioned that the retreat has bonded a number of ladies on this board. That is a good thing but I hope not a defining thing for the board itself. Otherwise, those who couldn't afford to go, those whose schedules didn't allow it, or those who are new since that time will always be an "outsider" because they weren't part of the original event."
I so agree with this Anita, and I have not been one who has attended those retreats and have felt left out, but I don't dwell on it, Ichoose to get over it. We all want to be a part of the click..but some are not chosen to be.
This forum is struggling, perhaps new blood is needed here.

[Dana Grant]

Anita said:"Just a final thought ... It is often mentioned that the retreat has bonded a number of ladies on this board. That is a good thing but I hope not a defining thing for the board itself. Otherwise, those who couldn't afford to go, those whose schedules didn't allow it, or those who are new since that time will always be an "outsider" because they weren't part of the original event."
I so agree with this Anita, and I have been one who has attended those retreats and have felt left out, but I don't dwell on it, I got over it. We all want to be a part of the click..but some are not chosen to be.
This forum is struggling, perhaps new blood is needed here.

Donna, I think Anita was referring to NAZNET women's retreats. We have had two of them. However, the only time that there has ever been mention of the NazNet retreats are when they are being planned and for a week or two after. We who were at the retreats are very sensitive to the fact that so many were not able to attend, so we purposely don't keep going on and on about them. There are no cliques regarding the retreats here on NazNet. We have only had two NazNet Women's retreats, and there were different people at each one -- yes, they were so much fun, but as you can see from reading posts, we don't dwell on those retreats and what happened there.

[Donna Adams]

Dana: I know what Anita was talking about..I CAN read! LOL! She said it's often talked about...no it's not an every day subject, but after the retreats were over it was. It's like walking into a room, and you have no clue what the women are talking about. I am very sensitive about things like that. I don't like people coming into a room at church, my home or anywhere, and being left out for whatever reason. I chose NOT to go to those retreats, money and I can't take hubby along. So I am an outsider, as Anita described.
We have differences of opinions about clicks, they do exist.

[Sara Sheppard]

Anita said:"Just a final thought ... It is often mentioned that the retreat has bonded a number of ladies on this board. That is a good thing but I hope not a defining thing for the board itself. Otherwise, those who couldn't afford to go, those whose schedules didn't allow it, or those who are new since that time will always be an "outsider" because they weren't part of the original event."
I so agree with this Anita, and I have not been one who has attended those retreats and have felt left out, but I don't dwell on it, Ichoose to get over it. We all want to be a part of the click..but some are not chosen to be.
This forum is struggling, perhaps new blood is needed here.

WOW Donna. I am shocked by your post. Let me apologize if I have ever made you feel that way. I don't think anyone who attended the retreat has ever intended for anyone else to feel that way. In fact, as someone who has met the other ladies and knows there hearts, I am POSITIVE it was never their or my intention. Trust me, as one who planned one of the retreats - we did our VERY BEST to keep them as cheap as possible. I remember at both retreats having a time of prayer for our naznet friends who could not be with us. Both retreats had different people. MANY people who attended the retreats do not even post on W2W anymore or very rarely at least (Linda McClung, Carmen Harrison, Jeanne McGrath, Paula Karr) and some people have never posted on naznet (or at least only once or twice) who attended the retreat. As to your husband not being able to come, well I won't make an apology for that because it was a women's retreat. The first year, a few ladies had their husbands come along and the husbands stayed at another location. They joined us for dinner one night. I don't know if that happened this past time or not - I can't even remember. LOL

I personally have never had the feeling of cliques on the women's board. I have had a sense that some people have known each other longer than others. This is no different than a "real flesh and blood" friendship. It takes awhile for new friends to assimilate into a group that already exist but it doesn't mean they aren't welcome. I think there are some (like me) who share more personal things than others (I probably share TOO much)... But as people share more and more - we know more about them and how to pray and respond.

Sara
P.S. - I never got an email from you of Jeb's mailing address so I can send him a card once in awhile. Can you email it to me at ssheppard1974@yahoo.com?

Thanks!

[Sara Sheppard]

Dana: I know what Anita was talking about..I CAN read! LOL! She said it's often talked about...no it's not an every day subject, but after the retreats were over it was. It's like walking into a room, and you have no clue what the women are talking about. I am very sensitive about things like that. I don't like people coming into a room at church, my home or anywhere, and being left out for whatever reason. I chose NOT to go to those retreats, money and I can't take hubby along. So I am an outsider, as Anita described.
We have differences of opinions about clicks, they do exist.

Something that actually strikes me as funny about this is - so often over the years, various people (not you Donna - I'm not saying this about you at all) have complained that their are "undergound email" groups which discuss things. And maybe there are - I have no clue. However, I was always proud of the fact that the retreat folks and retreat chatter never became an "underground email" group only. Instead, it was discussed out in the open so that others who didn't get to attend could feel connected to it more AND HOPFULLY be able to attend the next time.

I guess you never know what people want - for you to discuss it publically or for you to take it off board to an email group only. Go figure....

Sara

[Doris Grant]

I think we should all read Colleen's devotion for 10-21. That is why we are here on this board. We should all share a oneness. Yeah, we all feel left out at times, I know I do. But just like a family, loving each other, praying for each other, respecting each other is what is important.

I love and respect all of you guys and you are all in my prayers at one time or another. I personally am thankful for the naznet gals and for the fellowship not matter what forum I am on.

Doris

[Dana Grant]

Dana: I know what Anita was talking about..I CAN read! LOL! She said it's often talked about...no it's not an every day subject, but after the retreats were over it was. It's like walking into a room, and you have no clue what the women are talking about. I am very sensitive about things like that. I don't like people coming into a room at church, my home or anywhere, and being left out for whatever reason. I chose NOT to go to those retreats, money and I can't take hubby along. So I am an outsider, as Anita described.
We have differences of opinions about clicks, they do exist.


Wow, I never said you couldn't read, Donna!! I was just wanting to clarify which retreats she was mentioning. I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't read!! LOL When you wrote "I've been to those retreats," that is what got me to thinking that maybe you didn't know which retreats she was referring to. Sorry, my mistake.

Anyway, I'm also sorry if you feel that there's a clique of any kind.....I have really tried to avoid that type of thing, personally. It's only natural to respond to posts from people that you've known for a long time -- we all do that. There are plenty of people on this board that I've never met in person, but for some reason gravitate to because of similar interests, etc. I think that is what makes the board interesting.

Can you elaborate a little on how you may have felt left out in any way? Maybe we can learn from your feelings on the subject.

[Donna Adams]

Dana: because we have not met face to face, you can't see or read into my words that I was teasing about the not reading thing..I thought the LOL would explain that, but sorry, I guess it didn't. And...
I also made a typo in my post..it should have said, as it now does, I have NOT attended those retreats.Sorry.
I also now feel that the word clique was the wrong choice of words..I am not sure what would be a truer word for me to use.
There is a whole lot more about me that I do not feel comfortable in sharing on the internet. I don't like getting "underground" email.
Not being able to go to the retreats is really no big deal for me..honestly. But to sit in a room of "friends" and listen to their conversation about it, while my heart ached for that kind of fellowship and fun and learning, is hard. Like being a child in a room with other children who are recieving gifts and you are left out, for whatever reason you are not included. I have not even thought about it at all..it was very quickly passing thing.
I have panic disorder and cannot do so many things that I used to be able to do. Like go very far from my husband, like go spend the night with my daughter, like go shopping with my sister. Don't go feeling sorry for me, it's my life. I've accepted my panic disorder as a blessing from God. In my little rural church are 4-5 other women who have what I have, they felt all alone, they felt there was no one who understood..well guess what? 10 years ago they called a new pastor and he brought his panic disorder wife along. I've seen these ladies weep listening to me talk or tesitify about panic disorder. They now know someone else cares, someone does understand. But there are still days that I long to be normal..whatever that means...there are days when I want to go do, and run away from my husband but I can't..yet.
I am not the brightest star, I am not the smartest cookie, I am not any better than anyone else, but I do wish you all could know my heart. Reading my posts don't say it right. My words don't come out right. I am so very far from perfect, so far from being all God wants me to be, but I do know..he has a plan for ME, and I want to be a blessing.

[Barbara Moulton]

I am reading a great deal of honesty in this thread. I am also reading grace in different responses. Grace is what makes a forum safe.

Here's a little bit of wisdom that I have learned (and am still learning)...if you read someone's post and you say to yourself, "I can't believe she wrote that!" then go back and read it again.

If what you have read doesn't seem to be consistent with what you know about that person's character then there is a good chance that what she meant to write is not what you read. Ask for clarification before you respond.

I am also learning that although I can't help how I feel, I need to remind myself that feelings are not always based on facts. I...me..myself alone...take ownership of my feelings. Although I might have felt left out during retreat discussions, I know that none of those involved meant for that to happen.

It is becoming very clear to me that we are an eclectic group of people. I am not sure what the answers are for some of the concerns we have identified. But Im glad we can still keep talking, reading and showing grace.

Many blessings.

Now it's off to bed for me.

[Barbara Moulton]

As I posted to the other board, my growing sense from these discussions is that we won't be able to bring these two forums together without losing some people. I feel bad about that. Dividing the small group of 30 women (approximately) over two forums is problematic and it seems like there is no consensus about how to resolve it.

[Marsha Gupton]

I have been trying to think of a compromise but so far have come up empty. Every scenario I think of we would end up losing some and that is unfortunate.

One thing I thought about is to Have a Letter of Welcome on the main board to the W2W Forum; thus opening up this forum.

Try this for three months to see how it works and if there are any security issues. At the end of that three months make a decision about the classic W2W board.

I do not know why it has to be "either or" We have the classic Wesley board and we also have the naznet community board. Both are open and both have participants.

If any of the ladies who post on the classic forum have difficulty learning the new software I would be willing to make myself available to assist them and walk them through it.

Just some thoughts. Barbara, thank you for keeping this dialogue going and for having an open mind to possibilities of creating a welcoming and inviting forum where W2W can grow and can be a source of christian fellowship for women.

Marsha

[Barbara Moulton]

Marsha: I have been trying to think of a compromise but so far have come up empty. Every scenario I think of we would end up losing some and that is unfortunate.

That's sort of where I am at too.

Marsha: One thing I thought about is to Have a Letter of Welcome on the main board to the W2W Forum; thus opening up this forum.

Yes and on the main NazNet board, explain WHAT the W2W forum is for non-registered women who might visit NazNet. If they are looking for a woman's forum yet can't see this one and don't understand what W2W means then they might move along...without having a chance to meet all of us wonderful people.

Marsha: I do not know why it has to be "either or" We have the classic Wesley board and we also have the naznet community board. Both are open and both have participants.

Well, yes in theory. But the Wesley Classic Forum gets very few posts. I think there were four posts and only one thread when I checked a few minutes ago. Bottomline, most made the move over eventually. I am not missing a lot of posts by not going there. I do miss a lot of posts if I don't go to the classic W2W board.

The one thing I would say..going back to original subject of this thread. Since we have identified that the classic W2W board, although open, is still the one where we share more personal thoughts, because of its "feel", there certainly doesn't seem to be any reason to keep this forum closed.

[Anita F. Henck]

Bear with me ... I had a full 8 hours of sleep last night. Maybe my body can't handle it. So, if the answer is totally crazy ... that's my excuse.

I've not waded back through the 91 posts this has generated (good job, Marsha, for getting us to talk!). But, if I look at the first post and its title and now at our answer ... I think maybe we changed direction and answered a different question somewhere along the way. Originally, the question was "why does this forum have to be closed?" (I read that this was the type of closed meaning you have to be a member and register in order to participate).

I think somewhere in between someone said there was no need for two open forums. While that is probably true, I don't see it as a good reason to keep one closed. I don't see that we have a SECURITY risk and need to keep it closed for that reason>

And, now, we're leaning towards an answer of "we need to continue to have two forums because there is not a good way to combine the two".

My sense (again, not rereading the 91 posts) is that we haven't come up with a good reason to keep this forum closed so that people have to be registered to see and post. (Again, that is separate from having a "welcome" letter or link.)

My other sense is that a good community "feel" has occured on the other board. I have visited there a bit lately and felt warmly welcomed. I think I'll return more frequently.

I'd be eager to hear if I've read this differently than the rest of you. If so, I'll go back to 6 hours of sleep a night! :)

Blessings,
==anita==

[Dana Grant]

The one thing I would say..going back to original subject of this thread. Since we have identified that the classic W2W board, although open, is still the one where we share more personal thoughts, because of its "feel", there certainly doesn't seem to be any reason to keep this forum closed.


OK, what about this idea. Why not open the board for a trial period. First of all, instead of calling the women's board W2W, which no one new would know what that means, call it the Women's Fellowship Board -- or something like that. Somewhere it needs to be mentioned that although a person can read the posts on the Women's board, they would have to be registered to actually post.

I don't see why we'd have to discontinue the classic W2W board. It is there, and there is no reason to shut it down. There are several great women there who just do not prefer the new board. So, leave it. It doesn't take that much time to check both boards if a person wants to do so.

So, have a trial period. If it works out or even improves the participation, then leave it open. If we run into problems of some kind (men posting to the women's board, etc), then re-visit the situation in 3 months or so.

What would be wrong with THAT suggestion?

[Barbara Moulton]

So do we have agreement? To keep both boards going with them both open?

The nice feature of this board is that whenever you reply to a thread, the thread gets bumped to the top. I like that feature. It means that good discussions can happen, because threads don't drift to the bottom if they are still getting replies.

So maybe we need to make both open and start leaning towards using this forum for those discussions (like this one) that we anticipate might generate a lot of discussion.

Use the other board for that "homey, having a cup of coffee while I talk to my friends" discussions.

[Dana Grant]

So do we have agreement? To keep both boards going with them both open?

The nice feature of this board is that whenever you reply to a thread, the thread gets bumped to the top. I like that feature. It means that good discussions can happen, because threads don't drift to the bottom if they are still getting replies.

So maybe we need to make both open and start leaning towards using this forum for those discussions (like this one) that we anticipate might generate a lot of discussion.

Use the other board for that "homey, having a cup of coffee while I talk to my friends" discussions.

Sounds good to me.

(except the coffee part........LOL)

[Marsha Gupton]

I agree..... and it looks as if we have general concensus (the parliamentarian in me is coming out)

Unless I am misreading (I only had 3 hours of sleep --- can you say SICK) we are in agreement to open this forum up where people who have not registered may view and also keep the classic forum going.

[Sara Sheppard]

I'm in agreement to open it but I rarely post here...so just make mine a 1/2 count. ;)

I also only had about 3 hours sleep last night...so I might make NO sense at all. LOL

Sara

[Barbara Moulton]

OK...I've put a shorcut to the other board on my desktop to remind me to go over there more often.

Blessings,
Barbara

[Doris Grant]

By jove, I think we've got it! I agree that we need BOTH boards. I think we have a plan, now lets go with it.

Doris