2013 Ticket Picks

[David Pettigrew]

So, who would you like to see fill the top spot opening up at GA 2013?

[Ryan Scott]

David Pettigrew

[David Pettigrew]

Oh, you caught me fishing, Ryan. Well played.

[Jon Twitchell]

In all seriousness.... we have a longstanding tradition of not (officially) politicking the GA.

However, we also suffer from lack of name recognition among many of the delegates. At GA2009, someone suggested taking the list of names that received 3(?) or more votes, and creating brief bios for them and putting them online before the convention. I'm not sure I think that's the best solution... but it would seem like there could be better ways to help people be prepared.

[Ryan Scott]

In all seriousness.... we have a longstanding tradition of not (officially) politicking the GA.

However, we also suffer from lack of name recognition among many of the delegates. At GA2009, someone suggested taking the list of names that received 3(?) or more votes, and creating brief bios for them and putting them online before the convention. I'm not sure I think that's the best solution... but it would seem like there could be better ways to help people be prepared.

What's going to stop someone from doing it? You or I could put together a list, seek submissions from people around the world, throw it up on a website, link to it here and on facebook, twitter, etc. Things get around pretty fast on the internet.

We could just do it without bias - create a basic template for information and post whatever eligible names people submit.

[Jon Twitchell]

What's going to stop someone from doing it? You or I could put together a list, seek submissions from people around the world, throw it up on a website, link to it here and on facebook, twitter, etc. Things get around pretty fast on the internet.

We could just do it without bias - create a basic template for information and post whatever eligible names people submit.

I guess I got further along in creating this than I realized:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atk3mMCwFcogdGIzbVh1SGlDY21RekExNV9YUEltN 3c

[Jon Twitchell]

I guess I got further along in creating this than I realized:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atk3mMCwFcogdGIzbVh1SGlDY21RekExNV9YUEltN 3c

If you want permission to edit this... just send me a note! :)

[Michael Gentry]

How About David Letterman?

[David Pettigrew]

Well, we've heard David Pettigrew and David Letterman. Now let's talk about a David who is bound to get real traction - David Busic.

[Billy Cox]

What's going to stop someone from doing it? You or I could put together a list, seek submissions from people around the world, throw it up on a website, link to it here and on facebook, twitter, etc. Things get around pretty fast on the internet.

We could just do it without bias - create a basic template for information and post whatever eligible names people submit.

If I was a delegate, I would want to know more about a person than simply which destination church(es) they have pastored.

[Billy Cox]

So, who would you like to see fill the top spot opening up at GA 2013?

Who is retiring?

[Craig Laughlin]

Well, we've heard David Pettigrew and David Letterman. Now let's talk about a David who is bound to get real traction - David Busic.

Busic is to important to make him a GS which I don't see as being all that influential anymore. I suspect he is in the most influential (long term) position in the church of the Nazarene.

Who do we have off shore? Someone from Latin America would be good. Lets start a list of those names, get it translated into Spanish and Portuguese and then get it circulating.

What are the other big languages in the COTN? -

[Craig Laughlin]

I guess I got further along in creating this than I realized:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atk3mMCwFcogdGIzbVh1SGlDY21RekExNV9YUEltN 3c

Cool. - This is based on 1 vote and I like the idea of 3 votes better. You can remove my name. I think Hans got frustrated and I had just talked to him so he voted for me as protest. It was a good laugh but I'm already a parish pastor, all the other jobs are a step down.

[Ryan Scott]

Who is retiring?

I think it's Middendorf.

[Rich Schmidt]

I think it's Middendorf.

I thought I saw someone on here say a while back that Dr. Porter would be retiring. I don't know how old any of them are, but none of them seem "too old" to me...

[Hans Deventer]

I thought I saw someone on here say a while back that Dr. Porter would be retiring. I don't know how old any of them are, but none of them seem "too old" to me...

Dr. Porter was born in 1949. So he's too young to retire. Only Dr. Middendorf will retire, he's from 1942.

[Craig Laughlin]

Dr. Porter was born in 1949. So he's too young to retire. Only Dr. Middendorf will retire, he's from 1942.

It will be interesting to see what Dr. Middendorf does in retirement. He has a very active theological mind. I hope he writes. He is uniquely positioned to see the big picture of the church of the Nazarene.

[David Pettigrew]

It seems to me the woman that got the most (maybe only?) traction last time was Carla Sunberg, who is now a co-ds.

[Billy Cox]

So, who would you like to see fill the top spot opening up at GA 2013?

Bowling in 2013!!

[Billy Cox]

I think it's Middendorf.

Well then, we can cross at least one item off of the Concerned Nazarenes' to-do list. :smilies0150:

[Jim Franklin]

Dan Ketchum.

[Hans Deventer]

Well then, we can cross at least one item off of the Concerned Nazarenes' to-do list. :smilies0150:

Maybe not. He'll have more time to write now.

[David Pettigrew]

Bowling in 2013!!

I prefer roller skating.

[John Reilly]

I will vote for Hans Deventer.

[David Pettigrew]

Jim Franklin probably called it.

[Eric Frey]

So just curious, by what criteria would you vote/nominate? For the purpose of the discussion, lets assume we all agree he/she must be an Elder, and that the Holy Spirit is leading you to vote/nominate for the name. Besides that, what would you want to look for in a GS?

I think I'd look for three things primarily:

1) they would have to be a good vision-caster/communicator
2) they would have to have a sharp theological mind (preferably an earned doctorate)
3) proven experience with conflict resolution

[David Pettigrew]

So just curious, by what criteria would you vote/nominate? For the purpose of the discussion, lets assume we all agree he/she must be an Elder, and that the Holy Spirit is leading you to vote/nominate for the name. Besides that, what would you want to look for in a GS?

Probably someone clearly and unapologetically Wesleyan who has been somewhat controversial that would make the entirely cranktified go on and leave.

[Hans Deventer]

I will vote for Hans Deventer.

Not a chance. I'm not ordained, nor even district licensed.

[Hans Deventer]

So just curious, by what criteria would you vote/nominate? For the purpose of the discussion, lets assume we all agree he/she must be an Elder, and that the Holy Spirit is leading you to vote/nominate for the name. Besides that, what would you want to look for in a GS?

I think I'd look for three things primarily:

1) they would have to be a good vision-caster/communicator
2) they would have to have a sharp theological mind (preferably an earned doctorate)
3) proven experience with conflict resolution

Well, the truth is that my vote is too insignificant to matter much at all. And it looks like we'll be choosing another American again.

But I'll look for one who has at least lived many years abroad, in a different culture. We really don't need white guys who never left the States. This was the reason why I immediately supported Jerry Porter back in 1997. If it had to be another American, then at least one who had a broader vision. They have to lead an international church, after all.

Otherwise, your three points are excellent, Eric.

[Mike Schutz]

I am always uncomfortable with this conversation when specific names are mentioned, as I think it causes a bit of discomfort for those who are mentioned. After all, we are not sitting around the coffee table here.
However, I think it is very valuable to discuss what competencies, experience, and perspective we would like to see for those chosen for this transitional time for our tribe.

[Craig Laughlin]

. And it looks like we'll be choosing another American again.

I sure hope not. My single biggest thing would be someone not an American and preferable from the Southern hemisphere. The truth is there are tons of folks in that category that, given the vitality of the churches they lead, are vastly more qualified than anyone in the US. It just completely baffles me that Americans could think the meager ministries we have here in comparison to African and South America make us more qualified.

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of our leadership. Dan Ketchum is from my district and will be speaking in my church Sunday. If it has to be an American then absolutely someone with lots of international experience and Dan would be a good choice. That being said the gap between the performance of the American church and the church in the Southern Hemisphere grows larger every year. We really need an infusion of some of that in our leadership structure and I think we could use someone that would rock the boat a little.

[Eric Frey]

I sure hope not. My single biggest thing would be someone not an American and preferable from the Southern hemisphere. The truth is there are tons of folks in that category that, given the vitality of the churches they lead, are vastly more qualified than anyone in the US. It just completely baffles me that Americans could think the meager ministries we have here in comparison to African and South America make us more qualified.

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of our leadership. Dan Ketchum is from my district and will be speaking in my church Sunday. If it has to be an American then absolutely someone with lots of international experience and Dan would be a good choice. That being said the gap between the performance of the American church and the church in the Southern Hemisphere grows larger every year. We really need an infusion of some of that in our leadership structure and I think we could use someone that would rock the boat a little.

The problem with this (not that I disagree at all) is that I can only vote based on my knowledge/experience. I don't know that I could name for you a single person who fits the criteria I suggested above outside the US. I'm sure they are their, but I don't know them and hence I could not, in good conscience, vote for them. This is why I think we MUST move toward a more regionalized system that allows the people indigenous to a defined area to elect one of their own to lead them. As long as we have the system as it is, with GA's in the US, then we will continue getting what we've always gotten. American GS's...

[Craig Laughlin]

The problem with this (not that I disagree at all) is that I can only vote based on my knowledge/experience. I don't know that I could name for you a single person who fits the criteria I suggested above outside the US. I'm sure they are their, but I don't know them and hence I could not, in good conscience, vote for them. This is why I think we MUST move toward a more regionalized system that allows the people indigenous to a defined area to elect one of their own to lead them. As long as we have the system as it is, with GA's in the US, then we will continue getting what we've always gotten. American GS's...

Interesting that you make it a matter of conscience. Given the huge gap between the rest of the world and the US that is inversely related to our leadership/power structure I could not in good conscience vote for a white north american. If I were a delegate I would probably do some research and ask around at general assembly then put my vote behind any qualified off shore candidate that was leading.

While I agree the issues you outline are important the distribution of power is more important. (in my opinion)

[Eric Frey]

Interesting that you make it a matter of conscience. Given the huge gap between the rest of the world and the US that is inversely related to our leadership/power structure I could not in good conscience vote for a white north american. If I were a delegate I would probably do some research and ask around at general assembly then put my vote behind any qualified off shore candidate that was leading.

While I agree the issues you outline are important the distribution of power is more important. (in my opinion)

I totally agree with the desire for an international BGS. And I would have no problem voting for a qualified non-American. Perhaps this is another reason to have nominations prior to the GA. Each district could nominate one person. Each one could be vetted and a bio prepared before the GA.

[Craig Laughlin]

I totally agree with the desire for an international BGS. And I would have no problem voting for a qualified non-American. Perhaps this is another reason to have nominations prior to the GA. Each district could nominate one person. Each one could be vetted and a bio prepared before the GA.

Yes, absolutely.

[Roy Richardson]

Gustavo Crocker had traction for a while in 2009 until the GA went Bowling.

Sarmiento in Latin America would be a nice choice too, IMHO

[Billy Cox]

So just curious, by what criteria would you vote/nominate? For the purpose of the discussion, lets assume we all agree he/she must be an Elder, and that the Holy Spirit is leading you to vote/nominate for the name. Besides that, what would you want to look for in a GS?

I think I'd look for three things primarily:

1) they would have to be a good vision-caster/communicator
2) they would have to have a sharp theological mind (preferably an earned doctorate)
3) proven experience with conflict resolution

I offer another...

4) proven ability to discern and effectively respond to organizational politics

GSes who don't play the game well, tend to be marginalized by those who do.

[Billy Cox]

I am always uncomfortable with this conversation when specific names are mentioned, as I think it causes a bit of discomfort for those who are mentioned. After all, we are not sitting around the coffee table here.
However, I think it is very valuable to discuss what competencies, experience, and perspective we would like to see for those chosen for this transitional time for our tribe.

We're not in a small denomination where everyone of consequence knows everyone else of consequence. If someone is uncomfortable to have their name discussed as GS material, then they probably aren't ready for the burden.

[David Pettigrew]

Ok I won't mention specific names but I heard a missionary last night from the Horn of Africa who started out with 200 Nazarenes eleven years ago. Now, there are over 200,000 and counting. Shute, I wish I could figure out Howie did it.

[Hans Deventer]

Ok I won't mention specific names but I heard a missionary last night from the Horn of Africa who started out with 200 Nazarenes eleven years ago. Now, there are over 200,000 and counting. Shute, I wish I could figure out Howie did it.

David, I remember reading in Wesley's journal how he visited some towns year after year and nothing happened till all of a sudden, after sometimes 30 years, people started to respond. I don't think he did things all that different, he merely recognized that this was the time that the Spirit was moving.

[David Pettigrew]

Forgive me, Hans. I did a little play on words in the last sentence in an attempt to be funny.

[John Kennedy]

Forgive me, Hans. I did a little play on words in the last sentence in an attempt to be funny.

And here I thought you were announcing your GS candidacy.

[Lucas Finch]

Ok I won't mention specific names but I heard a missionary last night from the Horn of Africa who started out with 200 Nazarenes eleven years ago. Now, there are over 200,000 and counting. Shute, I wish I could figure out Howie did it.

I see what you did there! We had that particular missionary in both my church in mid-June and also at my district's NMI Convention a couple of weeks later.