Question for the seasoned hikers on NazNet (DAVE???)

[Dana Grant]

Well, Barb & I decided to get off the beaten path this week and actually take a hike through the Saguaro National Monument. Supposedly there are 34 miles of hiking around the 8-mile loop that we walk regularly (well semi-regularly at this point...).

SO, we started out on this lovely path......

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and then on we went.........

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having a lovely time! here we go....

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until we got here. We stopped dead in our tracks. See those two dark spots in the picture? (I don't have zoom and I didn't move closer!!!!) Those, my friends, are javelinas. Small ones, but we were pretty sure that mama and papa were not far away........

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So, we did what we thought was the right thing. TURNED AROUND AND WENT BACK THE WAY WE CAME!!!

So, what DO you do when you run into wildlife like that? Keep on walking? Wait for them to leave? turn around and go back?

I think we've decided to stay on the paved road for a while until we learn how to HIKE properly!!! LOL

[Dave McClung]

So, what DO you do when you run into wildlife like that? Keep on walking? Wait for them to leave? turn around and go back?


There may be a difference between "what I do" and "what I should do."

I grab my camera and see how many pictures I can get. I have hiked most of the trails in that area, and have explored the monument off trail. When I lived in Tucson, there were a lot of deer there, but I have seen the javalina and once saw a mountain lion.

When I see wildlife, I try not to scare the animal. I don't try to approach wildlife. That is what a telephoto lens is for. It has been my experience that most wild animals are curious enough that they will hesitate a few seconds to determine whether or not you are a threat. Once they have observed you for a second or two they will either go back to eating or will run. The only animals that have threatened me are squirrels and a few birds. I have seen mountain lions, bears, elk, bison, deer, coyotes, javalina, foxes, badgers, skunks and many other animals.

The closest encounter I have had was this week. One evening after a meal at the restaurant in Big Bend National Park I was walking to my car. As I approached my car, I noticed a slight movement under the car parked next to mine. When I leaned down to see what it was, I was face to face with a skunk!!! I slowly backed away and the skunk didn't spray. I guess I was lucky.

I saw a javalina this week too. I couldn't get close enough to get a picture. Here is the best wildlife picture I got this week.

[Dave McClung]

So, what DO you do when you run into wildlife like that? Keep on walking? Wait for them to leave? turn around and go back?



After I posted the prior post, I realized that my answer was more about me than about what one should do. Perhaps some would like a better answer about what one should do when encountering wild life. So, this is my "lesson" on wildlife encounters.

The key to acting properly when encountering wildlife is to remember that you are smarter than the animal, but it is definitely faster than you are. It is rarely smart to try to outrun an animal.

So, when you encounter an animal the animal will usually be aware of you too. The animal will consider you to be "food", "threat" or "just another animal."

Only a few animals consider a person to be potential "food." If you encounter a Grizzly Bear, a Mountain Lion, or a pack of wolves, think fast. You don't want to be considered "food" so do what you can to be a "threat." Prepare to defend yourself using anything that you have. Don't attack the animal, but don't run away either. Your objective should be to cause the animal or animals to decide that eating you won't be worth the effort.

Your risk of being considered "food" is increased if you have a pet with you. If you are hiking in wild country, leave your pets at home.

Except for the Grizzly Bear, the Mountain Lion or a pack of wolves, you need not be afaid of wildlife except for special circumstances.

If a wild animal is acting strangely, consider that it might have rabies. Racoons, foxes, coyotes and even squirrels have been known to attack people when they are suffering from rabies. If an animal is acting strangely, avoid it if possible or prepare to defend yourself.

Never "corner" an animal. That means to do your best to leave the animal a clear route to escape you. When they feel threatened, most animals will run away. If their route of escape is blocked, they will often choose to fight. One of the most dangerous situations I have encountered involved a mountain goat. I was on a narrow trail with a very steep drop off. A large male moutain goat came around a corner of the trail to discover that I was standing in the middle of the trail. The goat was more frightened than I was, but instead of turning around he ran toward me. He was approaching as fast as he could run. I flattened myself against the rock wall on the uphill side of the trail, but doubted that there was room for the goat to pass me on the trail. Just a few feet before he reached me, the goat went over the side of the trail. I was amazed that he could keep his balance going down that steep of a slope, but he did. Anyway, the point is to always leave the animal a way to escape.

Another special circumstance is the presence of off spring. Many animals, but especially bears and moose, will become very aggessive if they think their off spring are in danger. Never, ever allow yourself to be between a moma and her babies. I don't often recommend at a person run because you can't outrun the animal, but if you find yourself between a bear and her cub, run to get out of the situation. The mama bear will go to the cub rather than chase you.

After considering those special circumstances, wildlife encounters can be very rewarding experiences. The opportunity to observe wildlife in their own environment is one of the things that makes hiking such a great expereience. When I see an animal or a bird, I immediately stop. I avoid making quick or sudden moves that might frighten the animal. I do my best to get to a position where I can photograph the animal while it is "curious." After I have taken all the pictures I want, I move slowly away. I try not to frighten the animal.

There are a few "don'ts." Never feed a wild animal. In many cases, if you feed a wild animal, you are passing a death sentence on it.

Never (with a few exceptions) touch a wild animal.

Stay away from their homes (nests, dens, etc.). Some animals have lice or other parasites. Humans can get them.

Here are some pictures I have taken recently along with one of the "exceptions" concerning touching wild animals.

[Jerry Frank]

This story takes place in Kanasikis Country, west of Calgary. For GOOGLE World buffs, we parked at N50/31/00 W114/50/27 and hiked north up a valley, then up to the top of Mist Ridge at N50/33/43 W114/50/37. The trail is about 12 km (7.5 mi) return and about a 825 m (2700 ft) total elevation gain. At the top, through a gap in the mountains, you can see Calgary, some 100 km (60 m) or so away. If you tilt the view a little, you can see the perspective of the valleys, hills, and mountains in the area.

Since it was the August long weekend of this year, we expected a lot of people on the trail but there were only the four of us and one other couple that we encountered near the top. Berry season was at its peak and it was a beautiful warm day (though windy and cool a the top of the ridge.

This view with me in it is about 3/4 the way up. Our destination ridge is to the right.

Behind Faye, you can see a switchback trail which carries on over the saddle on the left. We have come up that trail from the valley to the right. About 2/3 the way up, we split off for a short downward section and then again back up to where the shot is taken. You can see a small section of the trail on the light green patch on the left side of the picture.

On the return trip, Roxanne and John (our companion couple and Faye's sister) who are always trying to prove their youthfulness, bounded on ahead of Faye and I. Back down in the valley, at about 2 km from the parking lot, the Mist Ridge Trail joins with the Mist Creek Trail. We passed this junction on the way to the car, perhaps 300 m. or so when Faye stopped and grabbed my arm. There on the trail, about 30 m. ahead, was a black bear munching contentedly on a bush loaded with bear berries.

I did not bother to try to get the camera out of my backpack. The bear had not seen us so we quickly hiked back up the trail to the junction. What do we do now? This was the only way back to the car. Both other trails led to the back country. We had encountered only one pair of other hikers in the 6 hours on the trail and they were far behind us. It was almost 6:00 PM. Do we sit and wait? How long does it take a bear to eat? Half an hour? One hour? If we wait, will the bear come up the trail towards us?

We decided that the only option was to bushwhack around it. We knew that our trail ran roughly parallel to Mist Creek which crossed the #40 near our parking lot. If we could get to it, we could follow it back. So we headed into the bush, singing old camp songs and gospels songs as loudly as we could. Some 200 m. into the bush, we found the Creek. There was one small problem. We were on a cliff and it was some 50 m. below us! Our only option was to head left along the highland. This was probably best anyway as, at some points of looking down to the Creek, we could see that both sides were blocked by high cliffs that came directly down to the water. We would have been plenty wet had we managed to get down to follow that route. We continued bushwhacking, crossing a couple of squishy swampy spots and finally encountered a narrow animal trail. It was heading in the right direction so we followed it. Faye was happy to see the deer poop along the track as she considers them much friendlier than bears. She was in front and I didn't mention that I was also seeing bear poop along the way. At one point however she noticed where a bear had been digging in the earth for ants. Eventually the animal track crossed the main path and we were happy to have easier going after more than 1 km of bushwhacking through, at times, very heavy undergrowth. However, we did keep checking our backs.

Roxanne and John of course were now at the car waiting for us and getting very worried. They expected us to be only 5 or 10 minutes behind them. The thought of a bear never occurred to them, rather opting for the possibility that one of us had had a heart attack along the way and the other was refusing to leave to go for help! They sure think we are old, I guess. In spite of being dog tired with aching feet, they decided to head up the trail to see if they could find us. Fortunately we met up with them on the trail so they didn't have to go too far. Faye and I of course had thought of this possibility and had worried that they might either head back and encounter the bear themselves or they might be past the point where our trails intersected and who knows how far they might have gone to look for us. All worked out well in the end except for sore throats from singing so loud and a lot of scratches on legs and arms from tree branches.

It was almost 7:00 by the time we got back to the car so we were in the bush for almost an hour. Roxanne and John had made it back to the car at 6:00. We encountered the bear at 5:50. We figure they were, at most, 15 minutes ahead of us so that bear came onto the trail sometime between them and us, perhaps only 5 minutes apart either direction. It made us wonder how many other times we may have been in the bush with a bear quietly watching only 10 or 20 feet off to the side. We have hiked for over 10 years and never saw a bear anywhere along the way, let alone encountered one.

Goals for future hikes:
1. Get some bear spray.
2. Get some whistles so, if we get separated, we can signal where we are.
Will we quit hiking? Never!

But we do wonder what we would have done had we encountered the bear on the swithbacks you see behind Faye instead of in the lower valley. There would be no way to go down or up to get around it.

[Gina Stevenson]

... rather than javelinas would be the idea of something slithering across the path in front of me ... or, worse, about the time I got there, or just behind me and following me!

An afraid-of-snakes sort of gal! :gen02

Which just reminded me ... was talking a bit ago on the phone with a friend still out in AZ (not today). They were out sitting on their porch steps. It's a wooden one, built in rather an open fashion. Suddenly they heard rattling. They got up quickly, went inside with their dog who was out there with them.

The hubby of the household got his gun, went out and shot the snake/rattler (they're not in PHX anymore, so not in town). That, to me, is scary!! :eek:

[Dave McClung]

But we do wonder what we would have done had we encountered the bear on the swithbacks you see behind Faye instead of in the lower valley. There would be no way to go down or up to get around it.

You probably did the smart thing. I might have done what you did, but I definitely would have gotten a picture before I went back up the trail.

When I was hiking the Appalachian Trial this summer I saw a guy with "bear spray." It looked like a fire extingusher. He said it weighed about 1 1/2 lbs -- more extra weight than I am willing to carry. If I was going to carry that much weight, I would just carry a gun.

I do carry a whistle -- even on a day hike. It is part of my emergency equipment. I have never needed to use it.

Dave

[Jerry Frank]

If I'd had the camera out, I would have grabbed a shot. However, we were tired and on our way back so I had already stored it in the backpack. The bear was engrossed in his berries. I wasn't going to take the time to find the camera with the possibility that he would see us. We were no more than the depth of an average city lot away from him and they can move fast.

As for guns, they are not allowed in our national or provincial parks - not even for self protection. The spray is not a perfect solution. In fact, it can work against you if there is a wind and it blows back in your face. However, it would be better than nothing.

Jerry

[Dave McClung]

That sure looks like beutiful hiking country. I have skied (or should I say tried to ski?) near Calgary, but have not been hiking there. It is on our list of things to do.

In 2002 we had planned to drive the Alcan highway from near Calgary to Alaska, but I was called to ENC. We had to delay the trip -- maybe we will do it in 2008.

Dave

[Joel Merrill]

I've posted this before but I think I will post it again. I'm always trying to educate and inform :basic05

From the National Park Service
Due to an increase in bear attacks we have come up with the following suggestions.
1. In order to not surprise a bear we suggest that you wear bells.
2. If you are attacked we suggest that you carry a large can of pepper spray
3. You need to notice the size of bear tracks. The larger the track, the larger the bear.
4. You need to learn to distinguish large bear droppings from small bear droppings. Small bear droppings will be small and have partially digested berries in it. Large bear droppings will be much larger, have bells in it and smell like peppers.

jOeL :fav02

[Roland Hearn]

Joel, that took me buy surprise and I laughed out loud.
Dana I flipped through your photos and got confused whether your comments were adressing the photo above or below. I looked at your third photo three times and for about four or five minutes at a time. I finally gave up thinking I was going blind. I then went back and followed your comments and discovered your javalina comment was referring to the fourth photo. I feel a little silly.

[Dave McClung]

Joel, that took me buy surprise and I laughed out loud.
Dana I flipped through your photos and got confused whether your comments were adressing the photo above or below. I looked at your third photo three times and for about four or five minutes at a time. I finally gave up thinking I was going blind. I then went back and followed your comments and discovered your javalina comment was referring to the fourth photo. I feel a little silly.

Roland, when I saw that you had posted on this thread, I expected a post about what to do if you run into a kangaroo in the wild. I have to admit that I have never read anything about what hikers in Australia do if they encounter wildlife. Are wild kangaroos dangerous?

[Jerry Frank]

A Richardson Ground squirrel, taken near Upper Kannanaskis Lake.

[Roland Hearn]

Roland, when I saw that you had posted on this thread, I expected a post about what to do if you run into a kangaroo in the wild. I have to admit that I have never read anything about what hikers in Australia do if they encounter wildlife. Are wild kangaroos dangerous?

When Brad and I were driving to work the other day there was a reasonable size roo standing on the side of the road watching the traffic go by. A full grown bull red can stand over six feet tall and leap 10 yards in a single bound. There have been people killed by roos but only when they have acted aggessively and backed them into a corner. There have been examples of roos leading packs of dogs into a river and drowing them one by one by holding them under water. Generally you don't have to do anything when you come on a roo they are gone before you know it. There are very few dangerous animals in the bush dingoes and crocs not withstanding. It is the snakes that you have to watch out for. The basic rule is if you see a snake leave it alone.
Often bush walking in Australia means encountering numbers of beautiful bird species, the occassional roo or walaby, a possum or two perhaps and maybe something a little more exotic like an echidna or numbat. But more often than not nothing. Australian animals are extremely shy and usually hide before you see them.