Are there Christian sects that do no celebrate Christmas?

[Jim Severns]

I heard mention the other day of a Christian man that has stated he does not believe in celebrating Christmas. I know that the Jehovah's Witness cult does not celebrate Christmas, but I've never heard of any other group that doesn't. It was specifically stated that this man is not a JW.

Are there denominations or sects or individual churches that don't celebrate Christmas?

Just wondering.

[Carol Kane]

Yes there are those who do not celebrate Christmas....besides the JW's there are the amish, some Church Of Christ sects, Torah Observant Messianic Jewish Congregations.

[Meghan Schoonover]

I know some people who avoid Christmas and Easter b/c of their "pagan" associations.

[Andrea Larabee]

I know some people who avoid Christmas and Easter b/c of their "pagan" associations.

This sounds exactly like some of my relatives. It seems to be an ongoing disagreement this time of year, every year.

One relative believes that Christmas Trees are idols...from the Jeremiah scriptures. :fav03 I suppose there are people out there who worship Christmas trees...whatever! He also does not celebrate because it's pagan. I do respect them and don't make an issue out of it with them. That wouldn't be necessary. I just don't want to be judged by them because I do celebrate it. That relative happens to be S.D.A.

The other relative just doesn't celebrate it because it's pagan. I respect her for the decision she makes, but her family is very, very crushed because now they can't celebrate it either.

I myself have never felt convicted of celebrating Christmas. In fact, it's such a joy and I find that I, and my immediate family seem to be in a more worshipful state than normal. My husband and I have created traditions to that bring Jesus into the whole picture at Christmas. Our family seems to bond at this time of year. (I know that is not so for every family, unfortunately.)

[Marsha Lynn]

I heard mention the other day of a Christian man that has stated he does not believe in celebrating Christmas. I know that the Jehovah's Witness cult does not celebrate Christmas, but I've never heard of any other group that doesn't. It was specifically stated that this man is not a JW.

Are there denominations or sects or individual churches that don't celebrate Christmas?

Just wondering.

The Worldwide Church of God under founder Herbert Armstrong and his son Garner Ted Armstrong did not celebrate Christmas, Easter, or even birthdays -- only the festivals of the Old Testament. Since a change of leadership in 1986, there have been numerous changes in that church but the members I know still stick to the former ways, not only avoiding the holidays themselves but condemning those who observe them. It causes much grief for the extended family.

Marsha

[David Cash]

One fairly mainstream evangelical denomination that leans away from Christmas would be the Plymouth Brethren. I think their logic is that the holiday has pagan roots. If you've ever read Shadow of the Almighty you will see traces of that thinking in Jim Elliot's words. Unless I'm mistaken, three or four of the five Auca martyrs in Ecuador were Plymouth Brethren.

There are probably any number of Christians across the denominational spectrum that avoid individual holiday traditions such as Christmas trees, Easter eggs, pumpkin carving, etc. Often this would be a matter of personal conviction, rather than denominational teaching. Again, I would expect the viewpoint that there was a pagan or satanic heritage behind these cultural practices as the motive. The first people I knew who didn't do the Christmas tree thing were Assembly of God, and that isn't in the Assemblies' teaching that I'm aware of. Can't remember what church the family that was avoiding Easter eggs was involved with if I even knew.

My conservative Mennonite friends avoid Christmas trees, but will use other Christmas decorations and celebrate with gifts and church/school Christmas programs, carolling, etc. I have a friend from a mixed Mennonite and maybe Plymouth Brethren type background who doesn't believe in Christmas, but he participates in church activities at that time of the year and avoids taking away from the joy of others. Since he's single, it's a bit easier for him to take this approach than it would for a family person.

David Cash

[Jean Johnson]

My younger sister is associated with what is known as the "Local Church". They eschew denominational labels. It's kind of an off-shoot of Watchman Nee's "Little Flock" movement in China years ago, and, I think, if my memory serves me correctly, that Watchman Nee had been influenced by the Brethren. All that to say......they do not celebrate Christmas either. Likewise, I think it probably has to do with what they perceive to be the "pagan" roots of this holiday.

Jean

[Hans Deventer]

Are there denominations or sects or individual churches that don't celebrate Christmas?

Just wondering.

Up till around the year 400, the whole church did not celebrate Christmas. So they managed quite well for at least 3 centuries without it.

[Geoff LaLone]

A denomination uses our building from time to time that is against Christmas, Easter, etc. They are kind of a conglomeration of denominations. I believe they are Church of God, Seventh Day Adventists, of the Firstborn. They asked to use our building on the 30th, despite the fact that we will still have up some Christmas decorations. I guess if the Christmas tree in the lobby is gone after New Year's, we'll know what happened to it.

[John Kennedy]

I have lived for years near a major Seventh Day Adventist center, Loma Linda, CA. The Loma Linda University Church, one of the largest in the denomination, has a big Christmas musicale each year during the Advent Season. A choral group of which I used to be a part, sang in another large Adventist church in Loma Linda during the Christmas season and the church was seasonally decorated.

There have been posts on this forum lately that portrayed SDA's as some sort of sub-Christian cult and implied that some weird behaviors stemmed from the individuals involved being Adventist.

Although I would have difficulty belonging to the Adventist Church (I view pork chops as being near the top of the list of God's good gifts to mankind.)
I don't think there is any justification for failing to recognize them as Christian. Admittedly they have some 'baggage', but I've known Christians from other traditions who had their share of 'baggage', also.

To attribute the quirks(sp?) of some individual SDA's to the entire denomination would not be fair. I've known Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, _________________ (you name it) and even one or two Nazarenes, God help us, whose behavior and attitudes would prompt full-scale declarations of disclaimer from their respective denominations.

[Geoff LaLone]

I don't think there is any justification for failing to recognize them as Christian. Admittedly they have some 'baggage', but I've known Christians from other traditions who had their share of 'baggage', also.

To attribute the quirks(sp?) of some individual SDA's to the entire denomination would not be fair. I've known Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, _________________ (you name it) and even one or two Nazarenes, God help us, whose behavior and attitudes would prompt full-scale declarations of disclaimer from their respective denominations.

John,
I agree with your point about not categorizing an entire denomination because of the impression created by a few individuals from it. However, I did not notice any posts where someone failed to recognized SDA's as Christian, as you have suggested.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

IThere have been posts on this forum lately that portrayed SDA's as some sort of sub-Christian cult and implied that some weird behaviors stemmed from the individuals involved being Adventist.

I was taught very young that they were a sub-Christian cult and have just always assumed that to be true. Upon reading your message I went to their website to see what they actually believed. They had 28 articles listed. As I read them I was surprised to discover how "normal Christian" most of them were.

I finally reached a sticking point at article 18, whch is probably what has given them the "cult" label. It is this (I've emphasized the problem words):

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
A "cult" as used here can be defined as "a religion which claims to be in conformance with Biblical truth, yet deviates from it. By this definition, a cult would be a group which calls itself Christian yet deviates from a core Christian belief."

I suppose that giving Ellen White's writing authoritative status must be considered a deviation from core Christian beliefs since the huge, vast majority, would not believe her writings to be authoritative.

Other issues of lesser importance include:

They have included beliefs concerning end times, second coming that are way too specific for most of us. (Some Nazarenes might even accept their notions but we leave the door open for other interpretations. For example, they included specific beliefs about the millenium and order, etc.)

They teach as an article of faith that the righteous are resurrected to eternal life but that the unrighteous are resurrected only to be completely destroyed. This view is not widely accepted within traditional Christianity, thought it seems to be gaining popularity.

(There is also of course the "seventh day" thing and the "unclean food" issue but I consider those pretty minor...)

I'm not prepared to run off and join their church but my opinion of them has gone up a few notches.

Wilson

[Jerry Frank]

I finally reached a sticking point at article 18, whch is probably what has given them the "cult" label. It is this (I've emphasized the problem words):

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)


I agree with your evaluation, Wilson. Even apologetics scholars disagree about the "cult" status of the SDA. I think that the doctrinal statements you found are relatively new (like 30-40 years or so). The SDA still suffers from the era prior to that when the full scope of their doctrine was unclear. In addition, many individuals and some of the churches probably still practice and teach as they did prior to their creation.

Regarding the quote above, while Nazarenes do not specifically mention Wesley in their doctrinal statements, are his writings not implicitly treated in the same manner as the SDA stipulate for White? Similarly for Lutherans and Martin Luther; Mennonites and Menno Simons; Presbyterians for John Calvin; etc.

Perhaps "authoritative" is the key word. We may not say that these leaders have special authority or that they have a special gift of prophecy as the SDA do for White, but certainly we often treat them as if they do.

Jerry

[John Kennedy]

One of the most high-profile 'cult' hunters was a man named Walter Martin. His original book, KINGDOM OF THE CULTS, labelled the SDA church as a cult. A number of years later he had to go back and revise that classification.

Part of the problem is that Seventh Day Adventism is far from monolithic. There are the church's theologians, most of whom had a significant part of their theological training in non-Adventis institutions. Then there are several very high profile Adventist evangelistic ministries which are NOT under the church's direct control. The denomination regards some them as being, at best, a mixed blessing. Thus you have this tension between the evangelists and the 'academy' (a situation not at all unique to Adventism)

In many churches the theological traditionalists occupy the most evangelical position. In SDA land the opposite is the case. The 'liberals' (in an Adventist context) are more likely to hold evangelical points of view. One also suspects that at least some of the veneration of Ellen G. White is 'lip service', a survival technique by the more evangelically inclined to keep the
traditionalists off their backs.

One other factor may have some bearing on this. It isn't always easy to determine what the official position is. I have run into this in at least two ways.

One is the dietary question. Many Adventists are vegetarians for health reasons. But it is NOT an official teaching of the church. I have had Adventists tell me that their parents in effect kept two kitchens - meat for some members of the family, veggies only for others. It's also kind of amusing that people who eschew meat are so fond of vegetarian, look-alike substitutes.

It sort of reminds me of some Texas Nazarenes I knew back in the 50's who were considering investing in a company that would make cabbage cigarettes - you could enjoy a smoke without the tobacco and nicotine. Have never been aware if there are carcinogens in cabbage. Knew one man who went beyond consideration and put money into it - an idea whose time, obviously, had not come.

The other area where I encountered this question of official position was when i was president of a teacher's union. We were having a membership drive and several Adventist teachers said they couldn't join because it was the official position of the church, that Adventists couldn't be union members. I reported this to the president of another local who was SDA. He laughed when he heard it and said, "That's not an 'offical church position', that 's the 'position of a church official'."

[Wilson L. Deaton]

... Perhaps "authoritative" is the key word. We may not say that these leaders have special authority or that they have a special gift of prophecy as the SDA do for White, but certainly we often treat them as if they do.

Jerry

Ouch! That was a bit too close for comfort. :eek:

I thought as long as we didn't use the word, "authoritative," no one would notice....

Wilson

[Randy Wise]

John,
I agree with your point about not categorizing an entire denomination because of the impression created by a few individuals from it. However, I did not notice any posts where someone failed to recognized SDA's as Christian, as you have suggested.

Can SDA's be Christian:My thoughts
To me this is along the lines of a person hearing the teaching of Christ from someone not preaching out of pure motives. If a person hearing the message comes to believe in Jesus and goes to Jesus for forgiveness then Jesus will forgive them. Jesus wouldn't hold a person guilty for the sin of Ellen White. When mormons come to my door I like to dialogue with them with the Spirit of "I see your faith in Jesus, but let me show you the truth in a righteousness that is from first to last by faith"

Randy

[David Cash]

I wonder if the word cult doesn't become harmful at times. While it is a useful tool for warning people away from unorthodox groups it also creates some risks. First, it is too easy to apply the "cult" word to genuine Christians whose conviction etc. irritate us. The other risk is that the label leads us to develop such an attitude of hostility towards those outside of orthodoxy that we lose our ability to gently lead any of their people to the truth.

David Cash

[David Pettigrew]

Christmas and Easter are not pagan, unless you believe ancient Christianity to be pagan. They are merely two of the seven seasons in the traditional Christian year that has been handed down to us.

I love Christmas. It is the most wonderful time of the year. But it only makes sense to me sandwiched between the preparation of Advent and the proclamation of Epiphany. I love Easter. All seven Sundays of it! And only after forty days of reflection and repentance during Lent, when I am confronted face to face with a survey of the wondrous cross.

I'll be keeping my eyes wide open amidst all the centenial promotion at M7 next week to see if Ash Wednesday will be given a mention.

Oh, that we in the Holiness Movement might rediscover the wonderful gift of the Christian year, and truly make Jesus the "reason" for EVERY "season"!

[Joanne Vergin]

I agree David. I came from the United Methodist tradition and miss the church year. Ash Wednesday and Lent especially. My pastor does the Advent candle and i appreciate that. This is the second Nazarene church I have belonged to. THe first did nothing to observe the church year. I think it has more to do with the pastor on that.