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View Full Version : Nouwen, Henri J.M. - Can You Drink The Cup?


Hans Deventer
16th November 2006, 12:27 AM (00:27)
The title of this book of course refers to the question Jesus asked John and James, when they had tried to get assigned to the seats of honour by having their mother (!) ask Jesus for those places for her sons.

Nouwen puts the question into the perspective of one's entire life. I think it is a dreadful question and the one you least want to hear. And yet, Jesus Himself had to drink the cup, so can we expect anything else?

The book begins with him remembering the day that cardinal Alfrink ordained him as a priest in the Roman Catholic Church back in 1957. He was presented a golden chalice, that his uncle, also a priest, had given him.
He goes on to explain that nowadays, in the Daybreak Community in Toronto, he uses glass chalices. In between those events lies the change in views of ministry and sacraments. We are to raise our cups, and show what is in them. Not in an exhibitionist way, but among those we can trust and with whom we share our life's journey.
We are to seek the joy that God provides in that cup, even in the suffering.

Now all of this could very easily sound pious but superficial. But here, it does not. Nouwen does not smoothen things over. He shares about his own journey:

But now I know that my sorrows are mine and will not
leave me. In fact I know they are very old and very deep
sorrows, and that no amount of positive thinking or
optimism will make them less. The adolescent struggle to
find someone to love me is still there; unfulfilled needs
for affirmation as a young adult remain alive in me. The
deaths of my mother and many family members and
friends during my later years cause me continual grief.
Beyond all that, I experience deep sorrow that I have
not become who I wanted to be, and that the God to
whom I have prayed so much has not given me what I
have most desired.

In the light of sentiments like these, a testimony of finding joy in the "cup of life" has an authentic ring to it.

This last book he saw published in his life serves as a fitting last word from the "Wounded Healer". It does help you to find healing for your own wounds.

Terri Knoll
16th November 2006, 08:31 PM (20:31)
is you signing my copy at GA! I love you too, btw.
I am sure you have read most of the controversy assigned to this certain book, I loved Prodigal Son and have passed it on, but Henri gets a little wierd toward the end of this one, I do agree on that. I actually came to that conclusion myself before I researched it. I am not opposed to the reasons for that...ie he was in the last days etc...and I am not opposed to granting him some type awe for his writing (after all I LOVE Stephen Kings writing!) , and for ME it was thought provoking...can I drink the cup...but it still sits in my "not pass on" file.
Of course this is just my two cents, and I thank all ya'll for your recommendations, but I would sit on this one personally.

Hans Deventer
17th November 2006, 12:37 AM (00:37)
I am sure you have read most of the controversy assigned to this certain book

Well, actually I don't. I have read a couple of his books, and one of his biographies. I'm not aware of a controversy regarding this one. I've been searching the internet for the reason and found reviews but none revealed anything controversial.

Do you have a link that explains it? Or can you elaborate a little on what you found so weird in this book?

Terri Knoll
21st November 2006, 08:09 PM (20:09)
actually no I can't find the links anymore...I do remember at the time I would just read books on Naznetters recommendation, but when I read it, it got a little off base towards the end so I googled it and found various reasons, and the one I deduced was that he was ill and got off target. Now when I google it, I don't find the same links other than some blogs that say about the same thing I felt. So feel free to delete my *un*recommendation, and I will just leave my thoughts at that. I have felt the same about some other authors...that they just get off into left field and totally get off the subject, not just this book. I still have the book and probably will reread it. Kinda like the Bible ( :

David Cash
21st November 2006, 10:05 PM (22:05)
Hans,

I don't have any clear memories of having read this man except for your brief quote here; although, the name seems familiar. I agree that it is easier to find encouragement in the words of someone who has also struggled than in platitudes from someone who hasn't.

I do think that there is hope for a bigger healing than the few words here would suggest, that we don't have to spend our whole life unhappy yet somehow finding joy. And yes, I know what it's like to be disappointed, to pray for something seriously for months and years and never get it. But still, I know that some of the past pain heals and that today's is more-or-less tolerable and I hope that someday someway God is going to see to it that I'm truly and thoroughly happy, even if my life remains disappointing. Maybe that is what he's trying to say.

Thanks for the interesting thoughts.

David Cash

Hans Deventer
22nd November 2006, 12:00 AM (00:00)
But still, I know that some of the past pain heals and that today's is more-or-less tolerable and I hope that someday someway God is going to see to it that I'm truly and thoroughly happy, even if my life remains disappointing. Maybe that is what he's trying to say.

Well, he's challenging us to find joy even in the dark times. And despite the quote (that may not reflect the book too well) he found much joy at in the last years of his life at Day Break Community, caring for disabled people.

David Cash
22nd November 2006, 09:12 PM (21:12)
Well, he's challenging us to find joy even in the dark times. And despite the quote (that may not reflect the book too well) he found much joy at in the last years of his life at Day Break Community, caring for disabled people.

Thanks, Hans.

Joy in the real dark times is something I'm afraid I still need work on. Thankfully, my life isn't dark, but I'm afraid when it was hard I didn't do too well on the joy part. I don't know how it fits with the rest of what's been said, but for me, surrender was a key issue in finding God's peace and healing.

David Cash

BobHunt
23rd November 2006, 04:09 PM (16:09)
Hans, I dont know what it is that he is referring to when he says God has not given him what he most desired. I think it is God's will that we always seek more of Him, and to be more like Him. If he refers to other things, sometimes when God doesnt give us things we pray for, we might be better off (though we can not see it). Its then that real trust takes over, trusting God's hand, when we cant see His heart (as the song goes.) Sometimes that is really tough. Its always easy to tell others, but difficult when it is us!

Hans Deventer
24th November 2006, 12:14 AM (00:14)
Hans, I dont know what it is that he is referring to when he says God has not given him what he most desired.

In the biography I read, it says he had longed for more of God than he has experienced. But I'm not sure this is what he was referring to. It may also have been a release from some temptation.
Whatever it was, Paul himself had to deal with things that were not solved, and the Lord told him that His grace was enough. These things happen.

Terri Knoll
28th November 2006, 09:05 PM (21:05)
In the biography I read, it says he had longed for more of God than he has experienced. But I'm not sure this is what he was referring to. It may also have been a release from some temptation.
Whatever it was, Paul himself had to deal with things that were not solved, and the Lord told him that His grace was enough. These things happen.


amen