Scary CNN poll

[Cindi Hammons]

Which statement best sums up your reaction to six imams being removed from a plane because of nervous passengers?

Answer one: Muslims should expect closer scrutiny (around 70%)
Answer two: Non-Muslims should be more understanding (around 30%)

Those are recent numbers on the poll. Of course it is a s.l.o.p. poll and is non-scientific, however the answers scare me. I would need to ask more questions to give an informed answer, such as, were they behaving in a way to cause alarm, etc.?

The reason this scares me is that, removing Muslims from an airplane is only one step away from removing Christians.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bruce Carriker]

The article that I read suggests that the Imams that were removed from the plane were acting a little odd. Probably not odd enough to get them removed from a plane under "normal" circumstances, but unfortunately, we no longer have "normal" circumstances.

I'm not sure I agree with the limited options given in the poll, but if those are the only two choices, I'd probably opt for "Muslims should expect closer scrutiny." Because, as has been said in other thread, "While not all Muslims are terrorists, almost all terrorists (at least today, anyway) are Muslim."

[Sara Sheppard]

It doesn't scare me. The fact of the matter is that most terrorist today are Muslim....although most Muslims are good upstanding people with no ill-intent towards their fellow man. If the hijackers of 9/11 had been 90 year old grey haired white grandmas...then I would expect that they would be under more scrutiny today. Its a far cry from removing Christians. However, if the Christian relgion begins telling their followers that it is now part of their faith to begin killing thousands of humans...then I'd say start removing Christians too.

I fly a lot for work...probably 4-5 plane trips a month and for the most part don't see too much scrutiny of any particular people.

I think what probably stood out with this incident was a rather large number (I think 6 or so) Muslim's traveling together on a trip. An isolated person traveling would probably not raise any flags.

Its sad and I wish that we could live in a world were we all respected human life but we don't.

Sara

[Vivian Cornwell]

Our newspaper said that three of the six people had one way tickets. That would be enough to raise suspicion since 9-11. They also sat in seats spread out on the plane, not together. They evidently whispered among themselves and all of this combined raised suspicion. From all of this information, I would say the airline did the right thing to ask them to leave the plane.

[Jim Franklin]

I read that they were saying their evening prayers which was considered "odd." But then a mother nursing her young child and not exposed was also kicked off a plane this week. If I had to choose who might be sitting behind me in a flight I think I would choose the nursing mother whose husband was shielding her from the view of anyone around. Since she was not exposed I wonder what was the cause for the flight attendant to offer the blanket. Was another passenger offended by the suckling sound, or what?

It is common for the Muslims to carry a prayer rug with them, should Nazarenes pray for God's protection before they get on a plane?

[Barbara Moulton]

It is common for the Muslims to carry a prayer rug with them, should


Yes...it is. Muslims are supposed to pray at certain times of the day and they are supposed to use a prayer rug.

My understanding is that they were asked to leave because their praying made the other passengers nervous.

Which is wrong in my humble opinion.

[Mark Doble]

Yes...it is. Muslims are supposed to pray at certain times of the day and they are supposed to use a prayer rug.

My understanding is that they were asked to leave because their praying made the other passengers nervous.

Which is wrong in my humble opinion.

I think the right choice was made.

[Hans Deventer]

should Nazarenes pray for God's protection before they get on a plane?

We should not but we may.

[Barbara Moulton]

I think the right choice was made.

It's interesting to hear the "two sides" to the story. The police said:

*The group’s loud chants of “Allah, Allah, Allah,” initially drew the suspicion of nearby passengers—one of whom said he heard the imams make anti-American comments regarding the war in Iraq.

*The men—boarded the plane with no carry-on luggage and used one-way tickets

*The men seated themselves in pairs, two at the front of the plane, two in the middle, and two in the rear.

*The men.....asked the flight crew for seat belt extensions. (My note...why this would make people fearful is beyond me)

The muslims say that:

*everyone in the group had round-trip tickets and that they have the documentation to prove it.

*The reason one of them was at the front of the flight was because he was upgraded to first class (frequent flyer on the airline.)

*He asked for a seatbelt extension because he weights 290-pounds.

*As for the anti-American remarks, one member of the groups says they were talking about a recent conference which was focused on building bridges to the non-Muslim community.

*And to avoid this very type of incident, Shahin says he’d already notified both the F.B.I. and local Minneapolis police department of the NAIF conference, as a precaution, in hopes of avoiding any problems.

Since they were released quite quickly, I am inclined to believe their side of the story. It sounds to me like the Muslims made all the right choices yet were still taken off of the plane in handcuffs.

I am not saying that the passenger's feelings of fear weren't real to the passengers. (Even if their feelings were based on faulty impressions and information). And in the light of how passenger's fears can cause problems in the air, maybe the airline made the right decision to remove the Muslims from this flight (at the very least for their safety.)

But they should have immediately done everything possible to get them on another plane and on with their journey.

Instead, they refused to sell them other tickets.

The whole situation is very sad.

[Mark Doble]

It's interesting to hear the "two sides" to the story. The police said:

*The group’s loud chants of “Allah, Allah, Allah,” initially drew the suspicion of nearby passengers—one of whom said he heard the imams make anti-American comments regarding the war in Iraq.

*The men—boarded the plane with no carry-on luggage and used one-way tickets

*The men seated themselves in pairs, two at the front of the plane, two in the middle, and two in the rear.

*The men.....asked the flight crew for seat belt extensions. (My note...why this would make people fearful is beyond me)

The muslims say that:

*everyone in the group had round-trip tickets and that they have the documentation to prove it.

*The reason one of them was at the front of the flight was because he was upgraded to first class (frequent flyer on the airline.)

*He asked for a seatbelt extension because he weights 290-pounds.

*As for the anti-American remarks, one member of the groups says they were talking about a recent conference which was focused on building bridges to the non-Muslim community.

*And to avoid this very type of incident, Shahin says he’d already notified both the F.B.I. and local Minneapolis police department of the NAIF conference, as a precaution, in hopes of avoiding any problems.

Since they were released quite quickly, I am inclined to believe their side of the story. It sounds to me like the Muslims made all the right choices yet were still taken off of the plane in handcuffs.

I am not saying that the passenger's feelings of fear weren't real to the passengers. (Even if their feelings were based on faulty impressions and information). And in the light of how passenger's fears can cause problems in the air, maybe the airline made the right decision to remove the Muslims from this flight (at the very least for their safety.)

But they should have immediately done everything possible to get them on another plane and on with their journey.

Instead, they refused to sell them other tickets.

The whole situation is very sad.

I guess if I so chose to be outwardly vocal on an aircraft I would have to take the consequences. There may have been a hidden agenda behind this, you wait and see.

[Barbara Moulton]

I guess if I so chose to be outwardly vocal on an aircraft I would have to take the consequences. There may have been a hidden agenda behind this, you wait and see.

I still haven't heard what they were doing that was so outwardly vocal. Talking among themselves and praying? I sure hope I wouldn't be taken off of plane for that.

If I read you right, your theory is that they wanted a reaction to their presence on the plane for a hidden reason?

Ok...I'll wait and see. I think I'll be waiting for a long time. :-)

If six Roman Catholic Priests were saying their rosary on a plane, nobody would think to have them removed. While it is understandable that people are nervous when Muslim clerics pray...it doesn't make the reaction right.

Blessings,
Barbara

[Jim Franklin]

Our God is the ruler of the universe and knows what was in the minds of the imams. I still believe that as lowly human beings it is prudent to be cautious. Shall we call a Nazarene prayer meeting for the Muslim world and local communities?

[David Cash]

Protecting everybody's rights is getting harder. It is a hard call as to how we should handle security on airplanes and around schools. Mistakes do get made. As long as humans run the system mistakes will continue to be made.

I have this suspicion that something has changed in the basic American mindset that compounds the whole security question. My paternal grandparents moved into the western part of the country just a little late to be pioneers; although, my grandmother's family came pretty close and probably did think of themselves as pioneers. There was a "take care of yourself" mentality then that I don't think we have any more. When a man ordered my grandfather off of public land with a gun, my grandfather used his axe to take away the gun. Nobody got hurt. Nobody called the police. They continued as neighbors. If you'd have tried taking over a planeload of those kind of people with box knives, you might have survived, but you'd have been hurting pretty badly when the plane landed safely. (And yes, I know, airplanes were new in my grandparents' day.) I guess I'm seeing a sort of dependent attitude that asks the law to fix what we could fix for ourselves.

Now, I don't claim to have all the answers, but I suspect that if the average American was willing to stand up to a terrorist, we wouldn't have to be so quick to push scary people off airplanes.

David Cash

[Brad Mercer]

I'd be inclined to agree with both positions, if most terrorists are Muslims but most Muslims aren't terrorists.

We're not going to be very Christian if we don't try to get to know and understand our Muslim neighbors, and if we don't treat even criminal suspects respectfully.

On the other hand, we're not going to make very efficient use of police resources if they're going to watch little old white ladies as closely as young Middle Eastern men in airports.

Brad

[BobHunt]

I am right when I say that we do not need to fear Muslims, we need to fear Islamics, the ones who have turned the Muslim ways radical amd into a political ideology. Of course it might be hard to identify the difference in a setting such as a plane. Basically, most Muslims are peace loving people. But the Islamic people teach their children at a young age that America is the enemy who is out to get them, they teach their young children to chant poetry about being suicide bombers and they so indoctrinate them that there is no way back for those children.
Ive been reading a few books, hope this all makes sense.

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

Does it really matter what any of us think about this subject?

[Barbara Moulton]

Does it really matter what any of us think about this subject?



In the "grand scheme of things" it doesn't really matter what any of us think about most of subjects discussed at NazNet.

Why zero in on this thread?

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

In the "grand scheme of things" it doesn't really matter what any of us think about most of subjects discussed at NazNet.

Why zero in on this thread?


Because this is a subject that i live with each and every day. It is a subject that for reasons i can't post - is troubling to me today. i try to not think about some things i know.

edited to add: my statement is in no means toward anyone who has responded to this thread. It is solely my own person response to the subject itself.