"And the government shall be upon

[BobHunt]

His shoulder"
What do you think this statement means? from Isiah 9:6

[Billy Cox]

His shoulder"
What do you think this statement means? from Isiah 9:6


I like to quote that verse to illustrate why people in Jesus' day did not recognize him as the Messiah. Jesus after all did not restore the throne of David the way that he was supposed to if you read Isaiah literally. (as religious people are known to do)

[Kevin Bowser]

Some say that it is a reference to the symbol of official position (i.e. ensign of office) that used to be worn on the shoulder to indicate power and the government (see Isaiah 22:22). Compare that to the "yoke and staff" of the Roman oppressor on Israel's "shoulder" (see Isaiah 9:4). Jesus will ultimately receive the kingdom of the earth from His Heavenly Father, to vindicate it from the abuse and misrule of those to whom it was entrusted to under God. Also His Father asserts His right by the Son, the "Heir of all things," who will hold it for Him (see Daniel 7:13 & 14).

But I guess I always just lumped that into the whole prophetic nature of that verse that indicates that Jesus Was and Is God's Son and as such He has authority in both Heaven and earth.

[Scott Daniels]

I think the original reference is to Hezekiah who ends up in Isaiah 36-39 having to face a similar political situation as his father Ahaz before him (Isaiah 7). Only his father failed to follow the word of the LORD through the prophet and created an alliance with Assyria.

Hezekiah (the child born to Judah) ends up prostrating himself before the LORD and placing the hopes of Judah in the face of King Sennacharib's threats in God's hands. In this way Hezekiah - inlike Ahaz - becomes the reminder that "God is with us."

Jesus certainly becomes the ultimate fulfilment of Isaiah's inspired and continuing hopes for God's leader (Messiah). Jesus brought a kingdom - a govenment - that restructured the way people live together but also put him in conflict with the principalities and powers of his day. In this way the pressure of the world's political forces and the pressure that comes with the formation of a new politic was upon his shoulders.

[Billy Cox]

Jesus certainly becomes the ultimate fulfilment of Isaiah's inspired and continuing hopes for God's leader (Messiah). Jesus brought a kingdom - a govenment - that restructured the way people live together but also put him in conflict with the principalities and powers of his day. In this way the pressure of the world's political forces and the pressure that comes with the formation of a new politic was upon his shoulders.

This sounds very much like the reinterpretation that was necessary when Jesus didn't turn out to be the political Messiah clearly portrayed in the book of Isaiah.

[Hans Deventer]

This sounds very much like the reinterpretation that was necessary when Jesus didn't turn out to be the political Messiah clearly portrayed in the book of Isaiah.

And how did they have to reinterpret Isaiah 53?

[Scott Daniels]

I would say that current OT scholars - Brueggemann, Fretheim, Childs, etc. - would say generally the following things about Isaiah's prophetic expectations.

1. You have to take the primary texts together - Is. 7; 9; 11; 35; 42; 49; 50; 52-53; 61-62 - as describing various pieces of a new developing sense of the necessary leadership for God's people. The basic idea of these expectations is that we need a new David who is absolutely nothing like the old David. The old David embodied what we thought leadership looks like - but his leadership set the trajectory that led to destruction. We need a new shoot from the stump of Jesse.

2. Rather than understanding these prophetic words as predictions we should see them as holy expectations. Sort of like a job description for Messiah that Jesus ultimately fulfills, rather than a prediction that he will be a certain way and certain things will happen to him. In particular - and quite radical - is the idea that this leader will bring the kingdom through suffering (in particular the "suffering servant songs" - Is. 42; 49; 50; 52-53).

3. Instead of being "reinterpreted" - I think when you take these texts altogether you realize that they are so counter-intuitive that it isn't surprising that Jesus wasn't recognized as the great fulfillment of the prophetic hopes until after the fact. Even if we are expecting the Kingdom to come in suffering we still are looking for a Christian Caesar, even though we know evil will only be overcome by good, we still think we can conquer evil only with violence.

[Scott Daniels]

This sounds very much like the reinterpretation that was necessary when Jesus didn't turn out to be the political Messiah clearly portrayed in the book of Isaiah.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean Billy. Do you mean that as a critique of what I said? Thanks.

[Billy Cox]

Some of the prophecies fit the actual story better than others.

[Billy Cox]

Reading Isaiah at face value (as people in Jesus' day would have), I have no difficulty understanding why most people - even the disciples - didn't recognize him as the Messiah.

...more a critique of the gymnastics required to make some of the prophecies fit with the story in the Gospels.

[Scott Daniels]

Right. So back to the original question - I don't think "and the government shall be upon his shoulders" has to fit a particular moment or event. It is likely a general statement saying that Israel's hoped for leader will have "the pressure of leading people with all of the conflicts involved."