Is the term "Oriental" offensive?

[Dave McClung]

I recently used the term "Oriental" to describe some of the people I see on hiking trails. A member of NazNet sent me an email suggesting that I should use the term "Asian" because "Oriental" is offensive. What do you think?

Dave

[Wanda Van Winkle]

I recently used the term "Oriental" to describe some of the people I see on hiking trails. A member of NazNet sent me an email suggesting that I should use the term "Asian" because "Oriental" is offensive. What do you think?

Dave

It doesn't matter what I think; it matters what the community at large feels is acceptable, right?

It seem to be unacceptable to refer to people as Oriental, anymore, as Asian is the current term.

I suppose Oriental rugs will always be called the same.

[Mamie White]

I think people are becoming to sensitive to things. I remember when they were called Oriental, we did not even use the word Asian. Why was it not offensive a fews years ago but is offensive now.

I wonder why we call the black people African Americans. Majority have never set foot on African soil. Why do we not call them Black Americans?

My people are from Holland should I be called "Dutch American"? :basic03

Mamie

[Hans Deventer]

My people are from Holland should I be called "Dutch American"? :basic03

If I lived in the US, that would not be offensive to me!

[Anita F. Henck]

When my sister and brother-in-law went to China more than ten years ago to adopt their daughter, I began to be more aware of the sensitivities of terminology regarding people from the continent of Asia. One of the common themes was that the term "Oriental" historically came from a perspective of Europeans seeing the area as "east" of them (which is related to the word "Orient"). It was seen as insensitive to define things primarily from a perspective of Europe being the center of things.

In many urban areas, "Oriental" would be considered as offensive to people as some other historic terms for other ethnicities. Others are offended that they are asked to change and continue to use the term. I'm sure there are many in between who are simply unaware of the concerns.

I can understand all of that and am sensitive to language usage. But, ironically, "Oriental rugs" is still considered an appropriate term and many restaurants still have "Oriental chicken salads" on their menus, without seeming to cause problems. So, yes, there seem to be some inconsistencies. My conclusion is that calling people "Oriental" seems to offend some whereas calling objects "Oriental" does not.

In short, the answer to your question in the title is -- yes to some people it is offensive to use the term "Oriental". But, I'm also aware that some who use the term would be offended to be asked to change.

[Ian Gentles]

I recently used the term "Oriental" to describe some of the people I see on hiking trails. A member of NazNet sent me an email suggesting that I should use the term "Asian" because "Oriental" is offensive. What do you think?

Dave

I wouldent have thought so, seems a nice term to me. Folks call me caucasion!!

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

Dave, i think it depends upon where one is located and a host of other reasons. To some, it is offensive.

Around here?

We have so many different groups - that the ones who are not from the Middle East would rather be referred to as orientals - the ones from the middle east are referred to as asians. Some people want to be more distinct.

We, also, have three terms for the dark skinned race: ones of color, African/American and simply black.

Sometimes it becomes a delicate dance to not offend.

[Mamie White]

I thought Hans might like Dutch American. I like the sound of it, also. Maybe I can get them to add this to the list.

Mamie

[Mark Bolerjack]

I think people are becoming to sensitive to things...


Agreed.
I do not like any of these "politically correct" terms. I think that they are pushed on us by a small minority of the group of people, not the group as a whole.

[Randy Wise]

I recently used the term "Oriental" to describe some of the people I see on hiking trails. A member of NazNet sent me an email suggesting that I should use the term "Asian" because "Oriental" is offensive. What do you think?

Dave

Survey Says!

Washington State Illegalizes ‘O’ Word
Philippine News, Cherie M. Querol Moreno, Posted: Nov 22, 2002

OLYMPIA, Wash. - Anyone who studied Asian American history knows that the word “Oriental” conjures up images of people less than savage as the term was used in Europe and then the United States in the last three centuries. And now the state of Washington has officially acknowledged the term as derogatory and offensive and banned it from all public text.
“Asian” rather than “Oriental” will be used to refer to the people of the racial category in all government statutes, codes, and regulations, even if many unknowingly interchange the “O” word with the term “Asian,” and that covers anything Filipino American

[David Cash]

I was the only kid out of five in my family who wasn't adopted. My youngest sister and brother were from Korea. I asked my sister if "Oriental" is offensive. She says that some people say that it is, but it doesn't make any difference to her.

What she says is offensive is being referred to as Japanese or Chinese, since she's really Korean! (She was naturalized a U.S. citizen as a small child, too, by the way.)

Anyway, that's the best research I've got easy access to.

David Cash

[Cindi Hammons]

Dave,

Oriental is not a derogatory term around here. I do believe that some terms used in the past were used as negative titles, and I do still hear some of them being used out of habit by older adults, but most terms are meant only to define. Oriental is no more insulting than to be called Occidental (which we do not hear much, but could logically be titled in the U.S.).

I personally would like to be called a "slightly pink American of mixed Northern European ancestry." Do you think that would go over? I could be called S.P.A.M.N.E.A. instead of "white." Of course, I am only kidding. ;)

[Virginia Stimer]

I don't know if it is offensive to people in this area. I do know that in Papua New Guinea I was a "red woman" which I think is better than being called a "meri nating" a "woman nothing" or worthless woman!

Of course, I often fit the description of being red because I sunburn easily. Which is why I now see a dermatologist every six months to check for potential skin cancer.

Virginia

[Joel Merrill]

This is news to me too. I use the word Asian because that is the word I hear used the most, but I didn't know Oriental was a bad word. I would hope the person would see that you didn't intend to insult them. It seems like many people are overly sensitive now days.

We have to take "Respectful Workplace" training at work every year. To me, it is all common sense. We don't have many blacks but we have a lot of Asians. I get along good with them. I do see a lot of men really push their luck with how they talk to women. Some women like to be talked to like that but I think most don't but don't say anything. But a few are just looking for someone they can get fired. A man has to really think twice before even complimenting a woman on her new haircut. A person can do bad work, abuse company time, tear up equipment and mouth of to the boss and it is about impossible to get fired. But if you are accused of improper talk to a woman or minority, you can be out the door in an instant.

Joel

[Barb Bouldrey]

My soon-to-be daughter-in-law is part Filipino. Her mother was born in the Philippines and Heather was born in Hawaii.

Just last week she was talking about something that happened on her lunch break at work and she said, "All of us Asians were sitting together." Yesterday she told me about stopping at the hospital to see the new baby of one of her co-workers. She said, "He is the chubbiest Asian baby I have every seen."

So, I am assuming that "Asian" is the correct word to use in this day.

When I not know where someone was born, I would say, "Oriental," just as I would say "Mid-Eastern" if I did not know the country of someone from the Mid-East.

I guess no one uses the phrase, "The Orient" any more.

Barb

[John Kennedy]

If I lived in the US, that would not be offensive to me!

I live in an area with a fair number of people from the Netherlands. I have yet to hear any of them object to being called Dutch. In fact, being called Dutch enables the expression favored by many of them (even to be found inscribed on bumper stickers) - "If you aren't Dutch, you aren't much".

A case of 'Orange power'?

[Jim Franklin]

As a Cultural Geographer I have never heard that the term "Oriental" was considered by anyone as objectionable. As has been mentioned Oriental was probably from a Latin origin meaning Eastward or Eastern. There are many areas of the Eurasian landmass that are considered Oriental which are not Asian such as Israel and Indonesia. Jesus was considered Oriental as opposed to Occidental. Sounds like something dreamed up by some one who is overly sensitive as to the true meaning of the term.

[John Kennedy]

I don't know if it is offensive to people in this area. I do know that in Papua New Guinea I was a "red woman" which I think is better than being called a "meri nating" a "woman nothing" or worthless woman!

Of course, I often fit the description of being red because I sunburn easily. Which is why I now see a dermatologist every six months to check for potential skin cancer.

Virginia

Us 'honkies' do, indeed, end up paying the bill for fun in the sun.

[Dennis M. Scott]

I recently used the term "Oriental" to describe some of the people I see on hiking trails. A member of NazNet sent me an email suggesting that I should use the term "Asian" because "Oriental" is offensive. What do you think?

Dave

Your reference doesn't exactly tell us the precise way you used the term, and to an extent this isn't what you asked, but too recently I discovered it helps me if I refer to individuals as "People from Asia" rather than "Asians." It is especially uncomfortable when in the COTN people are referred to as "multi-culturals" or even "multi-cultural". Most persons being identified as such really aren't. They are mono-cultural, but usually not Anglo. I'll be more comfortable when we just call people people.

Vaguely recalling your post, I remember simply thinking, "The guy who wrote this is obviously an older person, because he's using a term more in vogue a couple of decades or so ago." :basic05 (I can't believe I used that smiley face!)

[Barbara Moulton]

As a Cultural Geographer I have never heard that the term "Oriental" was considered by anyone as objectionable. As has been mentioned Oriental was probably from a Latin origin meaning Eastward or Eastern. There are many areas of the Eurasian landmass that are considered Oriental which are not Asian such as Israel and Indonesia. Jesus was considered Oriental as opposed to Occidental. Sounds like something dreamed up by some one who is overly sensitive as to the true meaning of the term.

Terminology can be offensive for different reasons. Sometimes it is because of the origin of a word. Sometimes it is because of how people have used and/or overused a word. It becomes offensive.

Regardless, if I am told that a group finds a phrase or name offensive I won't use it. It's not my place to tell them they are being "over sensitive" or to tell them they have just dreamed it up.

I see a time coming when no Christian will want to be referred to as a "fundamentalist". Regardless of the origins of the word, it has taken on very negative connotations. If that happens, Christians would certainly want others to respect that.

I wasn't aware that the term "Oriental" has become offensive for Asians. But since it has, I will no longer use it.

Blessings,
Barbara

[Dennis M. Scott]

If I lived in the US, that would not be offensive to me!

Hans, we've got a problem! Maybe you can help us here. This could be awkward, so work with me.

"Dutch" isn't always a complimentary expression in parts of North America. The major European influence on my mother's side is Dutch, and among family members for several decades a way of putting down a member of the family is to say, "You're so Dutch!" - meaning, I guess, you're silly, or different than people who aren't Dutch. Confession - when with my grandchildren, and they are getting roudy or silly; laughing a lot, I might say, "You're Dutch." I'm not sure what I mean. Perhaps I'd better not use the term, then. Please inform me.

Another expression that I've only heard one time in my life, was when a highly respected 80 year old Nazarene woman from way back was telling about how hot it was in her mother's kitchen. She said, "It was hotter than Dutch love in there." At least in part because I had never heard the term before, I just about choked on my coffee.

Ever the risk taking fool, I'm asking for your help. If what I've written here is pretty bad and something I shouldn't have said, email me, and I'll "edit" this post.

[Dave McClung]

Hans, we've got a problem! Maybe you can help us here. This could be awkward, so work with me.

"Dutch" isn't always a complimentary expression in parts of North America. The major European influence on my mother's side is Dutch, and among family members for several decades a way of putting down a member of the family is to say, "You're so Dutch!" - meaning, I guess, you're silly, or different than people who aren't Dutch. Confession - when with my grandchildren, and they are getting roudy or silly; laughing a lot, I might say, "You're Dutch." I'm not sure what I mean. Perhaps I'd better not use the term, then. Please inform me.

Another expression that I've only heard one time in my life, was when a highly respected 80 year old Nazarene woman from way back was telling about how hot it was in her mother's kitchen. She said, "It was hotter than Dutch love in there." At least in part because I had never heard the term before, I just about choked on my coffee.

Ever the risk taking fool, I'm asking for your help. If what I've written here is pretty bad and something I shouldn't have said, email me, and I'll "edit" this post.

I wonder if the lady you mentioned didn't mean "Dutch Oven." I have heard that term used several times, "Hotter than a Dutch Oven."

Back when I was in college, we would sometimes ask a girl for a date and tell her that we were going "Dutch." That meant that each of us would pay for our own expenses. I was never aware that it was considered a negative thing. More than once, I remember a girl suggesting that we go "Dutch."

[Dennis M. Scott]

Dave,

The "Dutch love" comment was made by a very close relative of one of your long-term predecessors at ENC, and she was quite glad to explain that it was a common Vermont term.

As for the "Dutch" dating - when you see my wife again, please don't tell her there's any other way!

[Terri Knoll]

I recently used the term "Oriental" to describe some of the people I see on hiking trails. A member of NazNet sent me an email suggesting that I should use the term "Asian" because "Oriental" is offensive. What do you think?

Dave

no need to clarify that word :basic05
being the grandmother of united nations grandchildren I classify them as:
chocolate
vanilla
banana
olive

sorta like the song red, and yellow, black and white

poo poo on that naznet member :rolleyes:

[Dave McClung]

Thanks to all who responded. My only resistance to the change comes from my legal background. I generally resist substituting a less specific word for a more specific word. The term "Asian" covers a much larger segement of the world's population than I have understood to be covered by "Oriental."

If one uses the definition that Jim Franklin gave, then I wouldn't object to the change, but I have never considered people from Pakistan, India, Russia or the Balkins to be "Oriental."

Anyway, now that I know it is offensive to some I will be more careful in my use of the term.

I found it interesting that I had an "Asian Salad" for lunch today. It was exactly what I have previoulsy eaten as "Oriental Salad."

[Barbara Moulton]

no need to clarify that word :basic05
being the grandmother of united nations grandchildren I classify them as:
chocolate
vanilla
banana
olive

sorta like the song red, and yellow, black and white

poo poo on that naznet member :rolleyes:

With all due respect Terri, what a loving grandmother calls her precious grandchildren can't be used as a measure of what we call people of different ethnic backgrounds in our interaction with them.

I know that you wouldn't refer to an African American customer as chocolate.

[Belinda Y. Edwards]

With all due respect Terri, what a loving grandmother calls her precious grandchildren can't be used as a measure of what we call people of different ethnic backgrounds in our interaction with them.

I know that you wouldn't refer to an African American customer as chocolate.

This is where it gets tricky, Barbara. And i am glad that you made that statement for it is perfect for an example of my area.

Those who were born in the south as decendants from the slave era still seem to desire to be referred to as "black". There seems to be a large immigrant movement from Africa in the last five years. Those from the recent immigrant group do not want to be associated with the southern born ones at all and desire to be called "African American". (Edited to add: To me the simple solution would be to just refer to all people of that skin tone as 'African American' - don't make that assumption. Those of the slave era do NOT want to be associated with the new wave of immigration. They enjoy the heritage they have. To be associated with the immigration group would mean they would have to give up their anti-leadership ideologies. The African Americans are very hard workers, determined to adjust and don't harbor grudges.) To just look at these people, one can't tell the difference. i am learning to listen more closely to accents and try to read mannerisms more carefully. i do not believe for one minute that any NazNetter purposese to offend and be rude. However, the definitions are becoming blurred on who is who and what is what.

For me, i try not to get into conversations where i have to say policital correct words. As one Black lady told me recently - "i try to say *peoples* at all times. Covers it for me!" i said Black in that sentence for i know her to be from Alabama. i work with Blacks and African Americans. If i am in a situation where i will need to use specific terms, i try to just acknowledge that there are so many different terms that i don't want to offend and which one are they most comfortable with. They have always laughed with me, agreed and told me what they desire.

From this thread, i will endeavor to try to remember to always use Asian here at NazNet.

[Barbara Moulton]

This is where it gets tricky, Barbara. And i am glad that you made that statement for it is perfect for an example of my area.

Those who were born in the south as decendants from the slave era still seem to desire to be referred to as "black". There seems to be a large immigrant movement from Africa in the last five years. Those from the recent immigrant group do not want to be associated with the southern born ones at all and desire to be called "African American". To just look at these people, one can't tell the difference. i am learning to listen more closely to accents and try to read mannerisms more carefully. i do not believe for one minute that any NazNetter purposese to offend and be rude. However, the definitions are becoming blurred on who is who and what is what.

For me, i try not to get into conversations where i have to say policital correct words. As one Black lady told me recently - "i try to say *peoples* at all times. Covers it for me!" i said Black in that sentence for i know her to be from Alabama. i work with Blacks and African Americans. If i am in a situation where i will need to use specific terms, i try to just acknowledge that there are so many different terms that i don't want to offend and which one are they most comfortable with. They have always laughed with me, agreed and told me what they desire.

From this thread, i will endeavor to try to remember to always use Asian here at NazNet.

Your post has captured an important point. The key is to be in relationship with people. Then you will know how they wish to be addressed. That's why you call me Barbara....not Barb.

I think we need to be aware of the most acceptable terminology so that we can make sure that our public discourse is appropriate. If I hear from a reliable source that a certain term is generally considered offensive, I will stop using it.

But when it comes to those with whom we have a relationship..or people we work with...the door is open to understand their personal preferences.

As long as we also acknowledge that because the personal preference should not be our guideline for our dealings with all individuals of that ethnic background.

[Mark Doble]

I dont think you want to know what I think Dave...

Oriental means you come from the Orient. What is the big deal with that?

Am I a westerner because I come from Canada, Or am I a North American?

I really dont care what you call me.

As to what is politically correct, politically correctness is wrong and has no place.

[Barbara Moulton]

I dont think you want to know what I think Dave...

Oriental means you come from the Orient. What is the big deal with that?

Am I a westerner because I come from Canada, Or am I a North American?

I really dont care what you call me.

As to what is politically correct, politically correctness is wrong and has no place.

I agree and disagree Mark. Political correctness run amuck is wrong I agree. Being sensitive to what others wish to be called and modifying our behaviour accordingly is never wrong.

When I was first married, I playfully tapped my husband on the head. He said to me, "You know Barbara, when I was little I was hit on the head a lot. I really find it hard to take."

So...what should my response have been? Should I have told him not to be sensitive? Should I have told him that nobody in my family had problems with being tapped on the head so he shouldn't either? Should I have told him that what he found to be offensive wasn't valid?

Of course not. I listened to what he had to say and modified my behaviour.

The reality is that language changes. None of us would think of using certain words today that we used when we were young. Because those words have since been used in derogatory or cruel ways...they are now associated with those hurts....it would be inappropriate.

My desire is to treat others with love and grace. If that means modifying my language then that's what I'll do.

[Mike Schutz]

I dont think you want to know what I think Dave...

Oriental means you come from the Orient. What is the big deal with that?

Am I a westerner because I come from Canada, Or am I a North American?

I really dont care what you call me.

As to what is politically correct, politically correctness is wrong and has no place.

Mark,
Greetings!
I have to disagree with you on this one.

Now, I'm not an overly sensitive guy, but:
It bothers me a little when folks from New England call me a southerner because I'm from Maryland. (Unfortunately, some New Englanders have a strong stereotype about folks from the south.)
It bothers me a little more when folks from the south call me a Yankee when they find out I lived for over 20 years in New England. (They think New Englanders are rude, mean, and elitist. They may be right - see above.) But I particularly don't like it, not for the geographic and cultural allusions, but for the baseball ones!
These are silly and trivial. But not all cultural identifiers, and the stereotypes that go with them, are trivial.

It bothers me quite a bit when folks who do not understand the difference, when they find out that I'm an evangelical Christian, call me a fundamentalist. While I love my "fundie" friends, I know what folks who don't know the difference between evangelical and fundamentalist mean when they label me, and it's not a compliment - especially in academic circles.

I know how I feel when folks mispronounce my easy-to-mispronounce last name. It's not a big deal, but it certainly isn't a relationship builder. But when they make the effort to get it right, and they really care, then it matters a lot. It builds the relationship.

So I think it is important to allow those who are being described and named to choose what they are to be called. Names are important, and we need to take into consideration the complex cultural variables that those of us who are not a part of that group may not fully understand. So for me, even if a small group within a group finds it offensive, I will honor their feelings and opinions. Just because something is labeled "politically correct" doesn't make it wrong.


Grace and peace.

[Andrew Henck]

Oriental means you come from the Orient. What is the big deal with that?

Am I a westerner because I come from Canada, Or am I a North American?


Do we really call it "the Orient" or Asia?

This seems like a very outdated example of terminology still used today.

Just some thoughts...

[John Kennedy]

All this reminds me of the story about the vanishing American. To the English, we are Yankees. But people from the South say Yankees are northerners, northerners say they are New Englanders, New Englanders say the term is only proper in referring to people from Maine (Maineiacs?), people in Maine use the term to describe Downeasters and Downeasters restrict the term to those who eat pie for breakfast.

[Randy Wise]

I recently used the term "Oriental" to describe some of the people I see on hiking trails. A member of NazNet sent me an email suggesting that I should use the term "Asian" because "Oriental" is offensive. What do you think?

Dave


So who sent you the email? <g>
Randy

[Margaret Center]

It was me, Dave's sister. I actually said that I was surprised that I had never seen anyone on naznet comment on the fact that only rugs are Oriental. People are Asian. In Dallas, it is common for a person to be corrected. I did not think he would go to the board to resolve our debate.

[Wilson L. Deaton]

My daughter just returned from LA where she visited 20 different urban ministry sites. One of the sites was a ministry to the people group you refer to. It was called the Oriental Mission Church. Apparently they didn't think the term offensive.

Wilson

[Gord Evans]

It was me, Dave's sister. I actually said that I was surprised that I had never seen anyone on naznet comment on the fact that only rugs are Oriental. People are Asian. In Dallas, it is common for a person to be corrected. I did not think he would go to the board to resolve our debate.

Dear Margaret,

You do not post often, here at NazNet.

But when you do, I am always delighted! Thanks for brightening my evening with this post! Not only did I laugh out loud, but I think I actually snorted when I read this response.

(I apologize for this graphical description of my reaction.)

Dave, your sister is special!

-- Gord

[Mike Schutz]

My daughter just returned from LA where she visited 20 different urban ministry sites. One of the sites was a ministry to the people group you refer to. It was called the Oriental Mission Church. Apparently they didn't think the term offensive.

Wilson



In Sighisoara, Romania, there is a ministry called "Elderly Club," a social fellowship group and outreach for folks over the age of 50. Can't imagine that name working well here.

It is not always a good idea to suggest that because something is okay in one location, it is okay everywhere.

Grace and peace.

[Dave McClung]

Do we really call it "the Orient" or Asia?

This seems like a very outdated example of terminology still used today.

Just some thoughts...

Andrew

The "Orient" and "Asia" are two different entities. Each includes some that the other excludes. For example, Japan is not part of Asia, but it is part of the Orient. I have never considered Russia, the Balkans, or India to be part of the Orient, but all are part of Asia.

I will avoid calling people "Oreintal", but I will never be comfortable referring to someone from Japan as being from Asia.

Dave

[Dave McClung]

Dear Margaret,

You do not post often, here at NazNet.

But when you do, I am always delighted! Thanks for brightening my evening with this post! Not only did I laugh out loud, but I think I actually snorted when I read this response.

(I apologize for this graphical description of my reaction.)

Dave, your sister is special!

-- Gord

Thanks, Gord, I think she is special too.

[Andrew Henck]

Andrew

The "Orient" and "Asia" are two different entities. Each includes some that the other excludes. For example, Japan is not part of Asia, but it is part of the Orient. I have never considered Russia, the Balkans, or India to be part of the Orient, but all are part of Asia.

I will avoid calling people "Oreintal", but I will never be comfortable referring to someone from Japan as being from Asia.

Dave

When I was in grade school, in every history class I took, Japan was a part of the Asian continent.

The only reference to "the Orient" that I ever learned was from reading Agatha Christie's "Murder on the Orient Express."

[Hans Deventer]

All this reminds me of the story about the vanishing American. To the English, we are Yankees. But people from the South say Yankees are northerners, northerners say they are New Englanders, New Englanders say the term is only proper in referring to people from Maine (Maineiacs?), people in Maine use the term to describe Downeasters and Downeasters restrict the term to those who eat pie for breakfast.

So all we have left are the New York Yankees?

[Dennis M. Scott]

So all we have left are the New York Yankees?

THAT, my dear friend, is why people in Boston cringe when anyone calls them Yankees.

By the way, does anyone know how the NY team got that name? From this thread, the only ones who would have called people from NY yankees would have been southerners, who probably were not consulted when NY was naming their team.

From someone who can't figure out how to say singular Red Sox.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

We once had a neighbor that wanted to be spoken of as brown instead of black. In Tennessee, we mostly call Afro Americans, blacks. Our pastor and most of the people in the church we attend are blacks--but they are really different shades of brown. I can see why some may not want to be called black. When I was growing up, we said colored people or Negroes in SC.
Blacks are some of the most precious people in the world. We dearly love them.

[Marsha Lynn]

I personally would like to be called a "slightly pink American of mixed Northern European ancestry." Do you think that would go over? I could be called S.P.A.M.N.E.A. instead of "white." Of course, I am only kidding. ;)

I like that idea! We need to spread it!

You put me in mind of a mental snapshot from the waning days of a family vacation to Washington D.C. when our children were in grade school. We were starting to think about heading back to Indiana but first made a short stop at a barren public access site on the Chesapeake Bay. The three kids were playing in the shallow water when a bus came roaring up and disgorged a load of kids in swimsuits who went tearing into the water. Suddenly, instead of three kids, there were 30 or so -- and no lifeguard on duty. We were still totally responsible for the welfare of three of the bunch.


A bit of panic started to swell up within me as I wondered how we would keep track of our own kids. However, as I cast my eyes out over the sea of bare backs in the water, my heart quit racing. Finding our children was not going to be difficult at all. The busload of kids was very much of mixed ancestry, but even the Caucasians among them had spent enough time in the 'oven' to reach a nice 'golden brown'. Ours were the pasty white dough kids that would need a lot more time under the broiler before they could be pronounced done.

There's a reason for that: thanks to too much English ancestry, they always burnt far too easily for this mom's patience. Rather than doing the gradual exposure necessary for even browning, we would simply layer on the sunblock and leave them a shameful underbaked shade of pink.

Yep, we're all SPAMNEAs.

:-)

Marsha

PS: I'm glad Dave made this exchange that started between him and his sister public. It has been quite interesting to me. I don't think it would occur to me to call an Asian 'Oriental' but I'm glad for being made aware that some still use that term and that those described by it can find it irritating. Any term that is sometimes associated with a negative or diminishing view of a group of people is going to become offensive with time, even if some use it with complete respect. Along those lines, I always cringe when I hear older people call blacks 'colored'. Even when they don't mean to include it, maybe even when it's not there, I still hear deep-rooted prejudice in that term.

[Billy Cox]

As far as I recall, the term 'Yankee' predates the American Revolution and was a derogatory term used by the British to refer to people in the American colonies. (hence the song Yankee Doodle)