Does it count?

[Jim Monck]

If a person gets saved listening to a tv preacher that I think is a nut, is that person really saved?

Could it be that God accomplishes more through the foolishness of preaching than we some times see even when the preacher is a bit foolish?

How come God uses people who prove to be less than holy to build great churches while letting some really holy pastors struggle to get their church up to 50?

I'm only 63 so I'm still a little young to know the answers to these and other questions.

[Mamie White]

God uses who He wants too and does not have to give an account to anyone. I have to say, there are some TV evangelist I turn off pretty quick. But if God wants to use them He does not have to ask for my permission. I keep waiting for Him to ask "What do you think about
BH but He has not called me."

Mamie

[Jim Franklin]

Some preachers due to their eccentric styles will reach some folks who otherwise would not be reached. Praise the Lord. Each one of us is attracted to different preaching styles. No matter who is called and how successful they may have been in attracting large congregations is above the possibility of being tempted by the Devil. My dad, despite having to leave school at the end of his 8th grade in 1900 took the Nazarene Pastoral Course of Study and enjoyed a successful ministry. He felt called especially to small struggling churches to build the people up in the faith and love for the Lord. His largest church went from an average of 98 one year to 145 the next year. Then we took another small church where the weekly salary amounted to about $7.50 per week.

[BobHunt]

Its not the evangelist/minister, its the prayer of the sinner.

[David Cash]

I think Paul once stated that he was glad when people preached the gospel to make his life harder because they were still preaching the gospel.

As far as the better guys getting the struggling churches, maybe God puts His best people in the hardest places. Sort of like calling in your best players when the game gets tough, or more realistically like He wants people He can work through when a situation needs extra attention.

My thoughts anyway.

David Cash

[Gina Stevenson]

Anytime I hear something like this, I remember God even let a donkey speak something that made sense to a certain prophet. ;)

If a person gets saved listening to a tv preacher that I think is a nut, is that person really saved?

Could it be that God accomplishes more through the foolishness of preaching than we some times see even when the preacher is a bit foolish?

How come God uses people who prove to be less than holy to build great churches while letting some really holy pastors struggle to get their church up to 50?

I'm only 63 so I'm still a little young to know the answers to these and other questions.

[Hans Deventer]

How come God uses people who prove to be less than holy to build great churches while letting some really holy pastors struggle to get their church up to 50?

Jim, I don't know how it comes, but it is a fact. There is simply no relation between one's holiness and one's effectiveness in the proclamation of the gospel. The strange thing is that people always seem to think that if one is used by God, one must be very close to Him. And hence the surprise when "the mighty fall". But the assumption is plain wrong. Yes, there are really holy pastors who struggle and there are far less holy ones who are being blessed with great statistics and true conversions. God is not accountable to us for His decisions.

[Hans Deventer]

Anytime I hear something like this, I remember God even let a donkey speak something that made sense to a certain prophet. ;)

Yes!! Very good observation. I don't think it says much about the holiness of the donkey :basic05

[Gina Stevenson]

Yes!! Very good observation. I don't think it says much about the holiness of the donkey :basic05

Oh, Hans! That donkey was being more obedient, hence more "holy," than some of God's more disobedient creatures, no? :basic05

[Dennis M. Scott]

Yes!! Very good observation. I don't think it says much about the holiness of the donkey :basic05

Seems like the point isn't about how dumb the donkey is, but Who It is that is speaking. Holy, fool, eloquent, clever - what is important is Who is really speaking.

Interesting thread, because a similar question recently arose about the following of certain television religious personalities. "No intelligent, educated, logic thinking person who had his act together would ever respond to that idiot preacher," said someone. Well, no, but those people aren't flocking to God much of anywhere. The Gospel seems to speak pretty effectively to people who are seeking, needy, dissatisified with their life, and knowing they don't have their life all together. The more disoriented, the more likely they are to accept an Offer that is almost too good to be true. Our problem is that we typically prefer to not engage in relationship with people we think are like that, aspiring to work among those who have arrived, succeeded, and are somewhat self-confident.

25 years ago, Peter Wagner reported that across cultures, the most responsive segment of populations seemed to be the poor: not the poorest of the poor, but those just a little off the bottom. I have yet to find him very far off on this particular issue. He wasn't suggesting we should neglect other segments of society, but simply that those other groups tend to not be as responsive. Their hearts seem for some reason(s) to not be as prepared to receive the Good News.

Usually when we get really miffed at "those television preachers" who are getting so rich, it's not because rich people are sending them all that money, but that poor people are. Most of us don't know very many poor people, and would rather not. "Their kids don't know how to behave in church, they don't know how to dress, they don't care about the things we care about, and they're too loud." or whatever. Most people would rather be with people they aspire to be like, rather than people we could help. Rather than being yeast, we seem to be afraid that what they've got is contagious.

So, does it count? I'm sorry, I've lost sight. Does what count?

[Randy Wise]

[quote=Jim Monck;68307]If a person gets saved listening to a tv preacher that I think is a nut, is that person really saved?

You mean if a person called on the Lord because someone was preaching Christ out of impure motives did the Lord hear that persons prayer?
Yes - how could a loving God turn that person down based on the sin of another and wasn't it the Lord that person called on for forgiveness?

Randy

Edit:adding this scripture from Paul
Paul's Chains Advance the Gospel

12Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel. 13As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=57&chapter=1&version=31#fen-NIV-29359b)] and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. 14Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly. 15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=57&chapter=1&version=31#fen-NIV-29363c)] 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

[Hans Deventer]

Yes - how could a loving God turn that person down based on the sin of another and wasn't it the Lord that person called on for forgiveness?

Exactly!