Where is the "sin rankings" list

[Brian Bergstrom]

Do you believe that "sin" should be classified into categories, and that we can rank them from bad to worse, or "not so bad" to "really bad"?

[Hans Deventer]

Yes. It should be classified in one category: deadly.

[Laurie Florence]

I think the Bible says, somewhere, that if you break one of God's laws, it's as if you have broken them all. It doesn't matter which law it is. I think the point is that all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and therefore we need his mercy and grace to forgive us. Really, when you think about it, we are all in the same boat.
:fav01

[Hans Deventer]

I think the Bible says, somewhere, that if you break one of God's laws, it's as if you have broken them all.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

[David Cash]

I agree with all the previous posts.

1 John 5:16 also speaks of a sin not leading to death. I believe that this verse is from a Christian perspective as most sins of Christians are covered by Christ's blood and don't involve falling away from the Lord, only temporarily straining one's relationship with Him. (If they aren't confessed and forsaken the word "temporarily" would have to be left out of this sentence, and the risk of an escalating pattern of distancing oneself from God and finally falling away would also be an issue.)

What we have to guard against is picking at the speck in the other guy's eye while ignoring the beam in our own eye. In other words, the other guy's sins are always the bad ones in most people's thinking.

David Cash

[Barb Bouldrey]

The easiest and yet most deadly sin is the lie. TV shows have characters that lie and the audience laughs. Our world is teaching our children that it is okay to lie to get yourself out of trouble...or get what you want.

Unforgiven liars will be in hell along with unforgiven rapists and murderers. And you can find liars listed in Revelation with those who will be in the lake of fire.

The scripture Hans has quoted is the Biblical answer to your question.


Barb

[Brian Bergstrom]

I understand what the Bible says about this. However, as Christians, we do not rely solely on scripture for our theology. I was curious to see what kind of responses I would get for my question. I do believe that many of us, nay, that all of us do carry within ourselves a "sin list". It may differ just as morals and values and opinions differ. I am not saying that this is okay, I am merely stating in my opinion what is.

Frankly, I found some responses to be a bit unimaginative. I mean, I know the token scripture verses and the mantras that go along with a question such as mine. But, do you really understand what your "sin-ranking list" is? BTW, I hate calling it that. Maybe someone has a better term for what I am talking about.

I also found it interesting that someone grouped liars with rapists and murderers. See, that is what I am getting at. "rapists" and "murderers" are the "bad" people. We feel safe throwing them into hell. This makes no difference even if you call them "unforgiven". It just means that this is what comes to your mind first. Why didn't gossips and slanderers and those who neglect the poor come to mind first? Do you see what I am getting at?

I find myself doing the same thing. I call them the "safe people". They include Hitler, terrorists, abortionists, racists, and liberal democrats. (I am being a bit tounge-in-cheek here). We feel okay condeming these types, but fail to see our own shortcomings and our own sins. I hate to say it, but having grown up in a Nazarene denomination where Entire Sanctification is preached I wonder how that affects my ability to see my own transgressions. I know many Nazarenes believe that there is this Sanctification experience whereabouts you receive it and then you don't want to sin anymore. I once knew a Naz. Preacher who told me he hadn't sinned or gotten angry in twenty years. That statement still gives me the chills...

Thanks for letting me discuss this with everyone.

[Barb Bouldrey]

Brian,

Yes, I see what you are saying. You are asking what we as humans consider the worst sins and those that are not so bad.

But everyone gave you the biblical answer...the way God sees it.

According to the laws of any nation there are sins that are more severe than others. I imagine that most Christians AND non-Christians would agree that they think rape and murder are much more severe crimes or sins than gossip or lies.

If someone steals my purse that is not as severe as if they murder my husband. But stealing is breaking one of the Ten Commandments right along with killing.

In God's eyes, sin is sin. Humans do have lists, as you suggest.

And too often, the Christian has learned to "wink" at some sins that we used to make us gasp.

Barb

[Billie Goodson]

Brian, you bring up some good points about sin. All sin is sin in the eyes of God. We struggle when we start trying to classify sins as bad, worse, worst. I think sin is like pregnant or alive, you either are, or you are not. No middle ground.

We all can pretty easily point out the sins that are warned against in the bible. I believe there is personal sin as well. Things like what Paul cautioned against when he wrote:

Romans 14: 23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

[Billy Cox]

The easiest and yet most deadly sin is the lie. TV shows have characters that lie and the audience laughs. Our world is teaching our children that it is okay to lie to get yourself out of trouble...or get what you want.




I have watched enough TV to have observed the lie as a comedic device. However, I have observed that the thing that makes it funny is not that a person deceives others, but that they lie (and go to great lengths to cover it) and you know they are going to get caught in the end.

If there is any danger in this view of morality, it's the fact that people in the real world lie and get away with it.

[Hans Deventer]

I understand what the Bible says about this. However, as Christians, we do not rely solely on scripture for our theology. I was curious to see what kind of responses I would get for my question. I do believe that many of us, nay, that all of us do carry within ourselves a "sin list". It may differ just as morals and values and opinions differ. I am not saying that this is okay, I am merely stating in my opinion what is.

Well, sin is what takes you away from God and ultimately leads to death. That would be the difference with a judge assigning punishment according to the severity of the offence. I don't think God works that way.

I really like Brad and Roland's definition: sin is finding self worth in the wrong places (= not in God) or seeking medication against the pain of not having found it in God. As such, it shows itself in many different ways but it is still the same thing. That is why a sin list of different severities is (in my view) a rather silly thing. You're walking in the light or you are not, it's really quite black and white, no matter how great (or how bad) it looks from the outside. Also, often what we would call really bad sinners are closer to the gospel than "decent" people.

Frankly, I found some responses to be a bit unimaginative. I mean, I know the token scripture verses and the mantras that go along with a question such as mine. But, do you really understand what your "sin-ranking list" is?

I think I do, yes.

I also found it interesting that someone grouped liars with rapists and murderers. See, that is what I am getting at. "rapists" and "murderers" are the "bad" people. We feel safe throwing them into hell. This makes no difference even if you call them "unforgiven". It just means that this is what comes to your mind first. Why didn't gossips and slanderers and those who neglect the poor come to mind first? Do you see what I am getting at?

Yes and that is why I don't believe in lists. And why I gave the short answer I gave, as "unimaginative" as it was.

I find myself doing the same thing. I call them the "safe people". They include Hitler, terrorists, abortionists, racists, and liberal democrats. (I am being a bit tounge-in-cheek here).

I'm glad you say so. I wish it were funny, but that is not your fault.

We feel okay condeming these types, but fail to see our own shortcomings and our own sins. I hate to say it, but having grown up in a Nazarene denomination where Entire Sanctification is preached I wonder how that affects my ability to see my own transgressions. I know many Nazarenes believe that there is this Sanctification experience whereabouts you receive it and then you don't want to sin anymore. I once knew a Naz. Preacher who told me he hadn't sinned or gotten angry in twenty years. That statement still gives me the chills...

Same here. Yet, and that is also why I don't believe in lists, sin is a relational concept, not a judicial. The law condemns offences according to lists. There are many things no judge would condemn you for, that are still sin.

[Barbara Moulton]

While all sin has the same eternal result for us (separation from God) there are many sins that have far greater temporal consequences for ourselves and certainly for others.

[Thomas Weyandt]

I do believe that there is degrees of punishment in hell for the unrepentant sinner. So Hitler would recieve greater punishment than an ordinary murderer because of the Number of murders committed at his orders. An 'ordinary' sinnner might have lesser punishment but still roasts in the lake of fire.
I also believe that there are degrees of rewards in heaven to the believer and I don't buy the proposition that years can go by without sin due to entire sanctification.

[David Cash]

I've been criticized for saying so, Thomas, but I'm inclined to agree with you.

David Cash

[Lindsay Martin]

Frankly, I found some responses to be a bit unimaginative. I mean, I know the token scripture verses and the mantras that go along with a question such as mine.


Unimaginative ... REEEEEEHHEEEEALLLLLLLLLLLLLLY???? Is that so??? You posed a question, a theological question, on a Christian website. The answers you got were strait from the bible. HOW COMPLICATED DO YOU WANNA MAKE IT?

[David Cash]

If I can throw in a couple more thoughts.

First, in the Old Testament, God did allow for different levels of punishment for different sins, which would suggest that to a certain extent there are worse sins than others.

Murder, and it's exact equivalent hate, seem to be treated especially seriously in the New Testament.

At the same time, it doesn't really matter how bad the sin on the list is, a little thing like bitterness or inner rebellion can mess up a relationship with God as quickly as scandalous activity. It starts in the heart and it does its worst damage there before it ever gets out to be shocking in the flesh.

In a related vein, I think maybe we all have our own need to rank sin for ourselves. Not that one sin will harm us more than another, but because some temptations are more likely to get each of us than other temptations. I can work all day next to a pile of somebody else's money and experience very little temptation. I do work next to a TV a lot of days, and there are shows that I have to turn away from because I know the temptations they'll bring to my thought life. For some of you, the formula would be reversed, and for others it would be entirely different. So in a limited sense the worst sin in my book is the one that looks the most fun.

David Cash

[Bob Carabbio]

This is an abstract, of course -

By definition at the PERSONAL level all UNFORGIVEN sin is fatal since the one and only criteria for "Making the cut" and living, is that you must be totally perfect.

Since that's impossible, of course, then the "work around" for that is the provision of a "saviour". This, of course is why Jesus had to die on the cross - which makes it possible for us to be "in Him" and be, therefore, perfect with HIS perfection before God - which is the ONLY perfection that we will ever know. As Humans, the BEST of our efforts are filthy rags - never will be anything else by comparison.

The Wesleyan persuasion has redefined "sin" as the breaking of a known commandment - which IS the definition for "transgression" but falls WAY short of defining "sin" which is essentially ANY "Falling short" of God's perfection. Another version is the "Sin is that which works evil".

If you're NOT "relying on Scripture alone" for your theology's "Bedrock", you have debased your process, and are no longer attached to any ABSOLUTE reality. Consequently anything you would decide under those circumstances is automatically suspect.

Not saying that EVERYTHING is covered in detail in chapter and verse, but that if what you choose to believe doesn't line up with the Word, and requires "Adjustments" to the Word, then you're on shakey ground.

IF THE QUESTION IS -
Do certain sins have a greater OVERT impact on our lives/other's lives/society in general, then the obvious answer is yes.
Stealing a paper clip from work is sin, but is not likely to have the same overall social repurcussions as flying a 727 into a skyscraper full of people.

But it's still only "sin" in the final analysis, and ALL sin, when put "under the blood" is gone. If Saddam (or Adolph H.) had repented, and accepted Jesus as saviour before his demise, then even while the relatives of his victims screamed for blood and hated him, HE would have been pure before God with Jesus' righeousness.

But HE (they) sinned the unforgivable sin - Refusing the offer of salvation when it was given, and counting Jesus as nothing of importance is the one that can't be forgiven.

[Laurie Florence]

I agree with the idea that certain sins carry more concrete consequences in the world. However, I know that if I am doing something that God doesn't want me to do, or not doing something that I know He wants me to do, there becomes a sort of barrier between Him and me. That's the best way I can expain it. At these times when I pray to Him, I am accutely aware of my sin. And then it hurts me, because life has no meaning without a good, close relationship with God. Then I have to repent and try to fix it.
What I'm trying to say is, in the final analysis, anything that damages your relationship with God is a horrible thing. That's why at the end of the day, lists of sins are not that important to me. I just want as close a relationship as I can with God.

Blessings,

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

Thomas, I don't believe that I have ever gotten acquainted with you.
I am aware that you ask us to pray for you, though.
The way a person is able to live without sinning is this: The way many believe is that "Sin is a willfull transgression of the known law of God."
Now, if one knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt that his heart is right with God, he does not willfully, and intentionally sin...doing it when he knows that what he is doing is wrong--then going ahead and ccommitting the sin anyway. If we commit something, that others may speak of as a sin, and we had no idea in the world that it was wrong, it is not imputed (held against us) by God. He knows ours hearts and intentions. Therefore, it is covered by the shed blood of Jesus, and we are not considered guilty.
I love to discuss God's word with someone that is actionally thrilling over it, and hungering and thirsting after righteousness, but not with anyone that is just trying to dispute the things that I am saying, just to "Be that way."

[Dale Cozby]

Back to the original question. Yes there is a rankings list. I personally have come up with it and checked with God and got His approval.:eek: j/k


"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

One could say this deals with believers, but the verse just above this says: "The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers."

I think we see that God holds each accountable to the degree he/she has the "Light" and the "Law".

Now as to the temporal effects of sin and thier degrees. That is obvious. Some sins do more harm in this life than others. I believe that sin begets more sin and with each new manifestation it grows the darkness of one's soul.

But as far as eternity is concerned, a sin is a sin. white lie = mass murder.
Either you are washed holy or not. :fun20 Without one spot or blemish.
You could say it isn't the quantity or the quality of one's sins that kills(second death) you, but the fact that there is any unforgiven sin at all.

1 teeny weeny tiny itsy bitsy unforgiven sin = death :o
1,000,000 huge horrible monsterous unforgiven sins = death


There, hope that was imaginative enough.:fav18

[Paul Whitaker]

The easiest and yet most deadly sin is the lie. TV shows have characters that lie and the audience laughs. Our world is teaching our children that it is okay to lie to get yourself out of trouble...or get what you want.

Unforgiven liars will be in hell along with unforgiven rapists and murderers. And you can find liars listed in Revelation with those who will be in the lake of fire.

The scripture Hans has quoted is the Biblical answer to your question.
Barb

Barb, you are right on!

There have been those who have listened to hear-say and repeated it as the truth when in fact it was an out and out lie. To me both of those people lie if the one who hears passes on the mis-information.

Guess I am reacting because I was the victim of that with serious consequences which should have not been meeted out.

Both of those people believed it to be the truth but lied - unforgiven liars?

Interestingly enough this was within a Nazarene organization.

[Thomas Weyandt]

I just hold that there are levels of punishment for numbers and types of sin at the great white throne judgement. And in Revelations it says that the Beast and False Prophet get to spend 1000 years in lake of fire with each other as company until joined by the devil, his angels and unrepentant human sinners. The Beast/False Prophet cause many humans to perish and do great harm, so much so that they do not dwell in the compartment where unrepentant human sinners abide (Paradise having been emptied by Christ and it's former occupants now with Christ in the third heaven since the Resurrection) but go, alive! straight to the lake of fire almost like a reverse rapture sans appearance at Great White Throne judgement after dwelling in hell like other unsaved.
I am a Pre Tribulationist.
To describe myself I would say that I am a very uncertain person who often punishes himself for sin by difficulty in forgiving myself and struggling to read Bible, submit to God and beat my besetting sin. I am reading more Christian books but like military technology, science/technology and science based scifi but stay mostly clear of horror fiction.
I like to walk and to think about things though I get into hassles because of my ruminating on various subjects because of obsessive compulsive disorder which is a physical breakdown in my brain. Ruminations 'hijack' my attention and thinking so I am 'caught' by a subject I'm thinking about and can't breakaway from the intruding thoughts.
Regardless of whether conditional or eternal security is right, no man or woman can get away with sin because the "Lord will judge his people" as shown in OT with Saul and NT with Annianis and Saphira who recieved death penalty for lying to the Holy Spirit. Saul lost his kingdom as far as his descendants were concerned inheiriting kingdom, David had his descendants every so often die a violent death and Solomon's son was left with only Judah and Benjamin as consequences in this life for personal sin. Eternal consequencies might or might not apply? Rewards are large or small and "every man's work will be tested by fire...works will be burned up but the man escape though only as by fire" at the believer's judgment. I have had exposure to both Baptist style and Nazerene style teachings in these areas. Who is right? I don't know but look to keeping my own conduct since no one can escape some kind of judgement for sin in their life.
I trust that gives you info on me and my beliefs. Thankyou for your prayers for me. God Bless you.

[Thomas Weyandt]

Above post was for Anne Hood who directed a post to me but I hit wrong button and it posted here. Sorry.

[Jerry Beck]

One of the things about this question that troubles me the most is that the Israelites got punished more for "murmuring" or complaining that about anything else. That leaves me nervous.

[Scott Hilton]

The problem I have with a "sin list" is that it will always end up as part of a "rulebook" and then we are right back to where the Pharisees were and making up all sorts of laws to cover ourselves and missing the point again. I guess I see where you are kind of coming from with the categories thing, however like I have seen others say, I think the consequences are different on earth because of the cause and effect of those sins in the here and now. I think we as humans love lists and categories, so we always want to mentally make them, however the spirit of the law says breaking one law is the same as breaking them all according to God. So I guess your list would have be clarified from what judgment seat you want it from, mans or Gods?

This whole, punishment in hell thing has me a little confused. My idea of hell is having a hard time calculating how some sins would be more punishable when compared to others. The first problem I have with this idea, is that we know satan and his co-hort will be bound, so then who is in control of the punishing? My mind would leave only God and this does not fit my view of who God is. My own definition of hell is the complete removal of God from someone. When I think of His attributes:Love, goodness, mercy, wise, forgiving, faithful, sovreign, Holy, just etc. I can not imagine what it would be like to not have those things in the world. I fully believe that even the wicked and unrighteous reap from His qualities in the current times. However, upon final judgement I view God as completely removing His attributes from their spirit. Can you imagine a place without Gods Goodness in it? Without His Mercy? If I follow through with my vision of Hell and the concept that different sinners will receive different levels of punishment, that leaves me with the idea that God would withdraw Himself from some peoples lives at different levels and that does not compute in my mind. His attributes are absolute and one attribute does not diminish at the expense of another.

So to me, just like the workers in the vineyard where the first will be last and the last will be first, I view hell the same way. All will equally lose Gods qualities from their eternal existence. The thought of that alone brings chills to my skin.

God bless
Scott

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

This is a hard question, that our human minds could never totally understand. How God sees things, and how we see things are totally different. But, for some reason, I have always felt that we "who know better" will suffer more in torment than others. The fire may be the same for all. I do not know. But, imagine the torment in the minds of those who knew the way so well. Then, on the other hand, all minds will be tormented, possibly thinking--"What if." Then we have "He that knoweth to do right, and doeth it not, to him, it is a sin." God is our only judge. There are people that do things, I would never do, but there are also, many of them, that I really do have confidence in. The question cannot actually be answered , on this earth---I feel.