Sunday night service?

[Hans Deventer]

Dana Grant wrote elsewhere:

My parents were just horrified that our Wesleyan church did not have Sunday night services. My father said that he would not attend a church that didn't have a Sunday night service. Why? What goes on in the Sunday night service that is so sacred? Is it because we've always done it, and we should never change anything? What about family? Isn't family important? Whose idea was it to have church on Sunday night, anyway?

My parents seem to think that Nazarene churchs ALL have Sunday night services -- haven't many Nazarene churches done away with the Sunday night service? Can we take a poll on that?

It would be interesting.

[Dana Grant]

:fav18
WHOOAAA!! Now THAT is definitely expert service! I am indeed very impressed!

Thanks, Hans!

[Gary Swartzlander]

We discontinued our regular Sunday evening services about 12 years ago for a variety of reasons. Attendace had something to do with it. Those who attended were basically board members and a few others who felt guilty if they weren't there. About the same time we started having double Sunday morning services and the board felt that it was important for the pastor to be able to devote 100% of his energies to Sunday mornings without having to split study time and planning with an evening service that was poorly attended. We also felt that there was other things that could be done with that time slot, such as membership classes, small groups, more volunteers available to help with youth ministries, etc. After the changes were made we found ourselves having 3 to 4 times the number of people in the church involved in various things than we had when just having the service.

We also decided that we wanted to increase the quality and importance of our midweek service, that proved to be the right move. It's taken time but we consistantly average near 400 on Wednesday nights now.

[Mark Metcalfe]

I said, "Yes, but it is not working well" because my church is presently
searching for the meaning of Sunday night service. We have experiemented
with local house churches with only moderate success - and moderate failure.
Our church is experiencing all of the emotions detailed in the base note.

Mark

[Barbara Philipp]

I answered no, never had it. Being raised Catholic after mass was done in the morning, that was it. Our Sunday was ours. Now being Nazarene, but not having the habit of going to a Sunday night service I may go once or twice a year when asked or if there is something of particular interest for me to go.

Hey, I am just barely getting into the weekly habit of Sunday morning services let alone Sunday night.

[Marsha Gupton]

Well, I answered yes, and its working well, BUT I should explain. Yes, my church does have sunday night church and it is working well and there is a good attendance.

However


I attend a sunday night bible study at another church! GASP! A Methodist Church. DOUBLE GASP! But I really enjoy it. This methodist church does not have church services on sunday night, but the teens meet on sunday night and a few small groups meet.

Currently we are reading from "The Message" and discussing the scripture we read. This is interesting because I have more of a conservative point of few than than the others. But, everyone respects the others opinions and it has been a growing experience for me.

I love the nazarene church, but I have thought for some years now that we feel guilty if we do not go to sunday night services.

[Jenny Mitchell]

We have Sunday evening service, but I'm really unhappy with it. Our Sunday mornings we average in the mid-30s, so we're a small church to start with. On Sunday evenings, we're usually around 12 - and 8 of them are in my family. The other 4 are seniors, the same seniors who attend our midweek Bible study for adults. Sunday school is much better attended.

I'd like to totally redo Sunday evenings - I'd like to try something completely different, like a contemporary service, since no one in our area offers such a thing, aimed at teens, young adults, and the young at heart, or something else entirely. I'm a musician short of doing so. I'll admit that the pressure to do something is building - I don't have the energy I had pre-surgery and cancer diagnosis, and I'd rather put my energy into Sunday mornings, Sunday school, our midweek kids' program, and building a teen ministry as well as pastoral care. As much as I love preaching, I find it hard to motivate myself when I know that no matter what I plan, attendance will be right around 12. So, needless to say, I'm very interested in this thread...

[Virginia Stimer]

I voted yes and it is not working well but the thing that is not working well is the attendance. For those of us that attend it is a good service. An encouraging thing is the number of teens who call for rides to church on Sunday night.:)

Virginia

[Larry Osweiler]

Hey Virginia, I'm your neighbor up here in Saginaw. There are several naznetters from Michigan here!:basic01

[Charlene Clevenger]

We have made some changes in the last several weeks. We've gone to 2 services on Sun. morning (classic and contemporary), and that is working well. One of the changes that was supposed to happen at the same time was making our Sun. evening mor like Gary's church is doing. So far that hasn't happened. Maybe we took on too much at once. On Wednesdays we do small groups for the adults. We've been doing that for about a year.

We discontinued our regular Sunday evening services about 12 years ago for a variety of reasons. Attendace had something to do with it. Those who attended were basically board members and a few others who felt guilty if they weren't there. About the same time we started having double Sunday morning services and the board felt that it was important for the pastor to be able to devote 100% of his energies to Sunday mornings without having to split study time and planning with an evening service that was poorly attended. We also felt that there was other things that could be done with that time slot, such as membership classes, small groups, more volunteers available to help with youth ministries, etc. After the changes were made we found ourselves having 3 to 4 times the number of people in the church involved in various things than we had when just having the service.

We also decided that we wanted to increase the quality and importance of our midweek service, that proved to be the right move. It's taken time but we consistantly average near 400 on Wednesday nights now.

[Nelson Bradford]

I voted, "No, but we used to."

Maybe I should clarify.

(Wouldn't you just know it? I skipped Brevity 101.)

College Church here used to have Sunday night services - and they still do for special occasions - like revivals.

And now there are SS classes, bible study groups, small groups meeting in both buildings (we have a rather new facility north of town called the North Campus - isn't that clever?).

However a meeting of people in the main sancuary of either building on a regular basis every Sunday night?

Nope.

Not here.

[Alex Manly]

We have Discipleship class on Sunday evenings, and once a month our Missionary night with a snack and yak (chat) afterwards is in it's place. Attendance has risen since out new Associate Pastor has taken over during these times. The Discipleship classes consist of things like personality profiles, finding our S.H.A.P.E., and discovering our purposes in life. The Missionary night consists of lessons about our missionaries and mission work. Like last week we watched "Above the Noise" about the great transforming power of prayer and the effect it had on several 'down and out' cities in the world. A few weeks before I did a lesson on the "Commision Unto Mexico" work and witness trip I'll be attending right after Christmas.


Virginia and Larry, I'm an ex-Michiganer...I used to live in Midland back in '79-'86...course I was in elementary/jr high at the time. 8)

[Jim Severns]

Trevecca Community Church in Nashville Tennessee is no longer having a traditional Sunday evening service. By that I mean a regular scheduled service following a standard pattern such as prelude, prayer, hymns, offering, pastoral message, hymn, benediction.

There are occasional Sunday evenings with no service scheduled, one of which occured just this week.

However, there is a service of some sort on most Sunday evenings. There have been special prayer services, praise services, concerts and more. We often have a more traditional service with preaching by a staff member or one of the many elders in our congregation not currently pastoring. When that happens, there is usually music led by someone not on the staff (we have lots of musicians). There have been a couple of panel discussions on theological and church matters. We recently had a “best of” concert night with our choir and worship team.

Attendance varies considerably based on the type of service and the Trevecca school year. One night attendance could be 40, another 750.

So, no two Sunday evenings are the same at our church. I’ll confess I was a bit uneasy when things started to change, but it has worked out well. I love it!

[Joel Merrill]

I answered yes and it's great :fav18 This may shock a lot of you but I don't go to the morning service. But if you don't go to the evening service we are both going to one service.

My wife and I work nights. We don't get to bed until 3:30 or 4:00 AM! When you do that all week long it is impossible to change hours on the weekend. I've had plenty of people tell me I should just go to bed early on Saturday night. Well, you try and go to bed at 10:00 AM and see if you can sleep.

When my kids were still living with us my wife worked days. I thought it was important to go to church with my family so I went most of the time. All I did was fight trying to stay awake. I got nothing out of the service. Then I was so tired that I slept all afternoon and the whole day was a waste. If I get up at my normal time I can enjoy the day with my family and enjoy my church. One of the main things I look for in a church is a good Sunday evening service.

I had a pastor come right out and tell me one time that I needed to get on days. I had another pastor tell me that he was praying for my soul. Neither of these men have ever held a job out in the world. I can't just go to my boss and say I'm going to start working days next week. I have a good job for a good company. It would be foolish to leave. I feel that God gave me that job and I strongly believe that I have a ministry working nights there, especially if you think that all night workers are sinners. I have wonderful opportunities to witness and by the way, there are lots of Christians working nights.

One thing that has always kind of hurt me is that everything in the church is geared to day shift workers. Men's fellowship get togethers are always on week nights. Saturday prayer breakfast is at 6:00 AM!!! Why so early, it's Saturday for Pete's sake. Olan Mills is going to do a church directory for us. Guess what, I can't make it.

I would like to see a church reach out to night shift workers. It wouldn't work in every church but if your church is in an industrial town or a big town it could work. I used to have a Bible study in my home on Wednesday afternoons for night shifters. For a while we had a devotional during lunch on Wednesday night at work. I'll bet you could find plenty of capable people who works nights to have the service so you wouldn't need to have a day shifter to play piano or guitar and lead singing or even lead the service.

Night shift people are very nice people and no one to be afraid of. I think there is something about getting up with an alarm clock and having to hit the road running that makes people crabby. Some people like my mom enjoy getting up at 4:00 AM. Some people like me have a night metabolism. I always have, even when I was a little kid.

I have a great pastor and a great church. We have a great evening service and I look forward to it all week.

Joel :fun02

[Marsha Lynn]

I need another choice: Yes, we have Sunday evening service. It's not great but it's not terrible either. Our core people generally attend and there's good fellowship. Once a month we have NMI meeting. We stay after to celebrate birthdays and anniversaries once a month, usually on the night of the NMI service. This coming Sunday evening we're having our Thanksgiving dinner. Sometimes we have special events such as the "church health survey" we did a few weeks ago. It's nice for things such as the VBS program where we have kids involved from other churches who might not be able to come on Sunday morning. Sunday evenings is when our children's quiz team practices.

I'm not necessarily enthused about the service itself, but I like the relaxed fellowship of Sunday evenings. I don't go out of guilt. I go for the same reasons I go on Sunday morning. (You can find those reasons here (http://marshalyn.blogspot.com/2005/11/why-i-go-to-church.html) if you're interested. :-)

I suppose one could say that our evening service is "not working" since attendance isn't wonderful, but as far as that goes, nothing we're doing is 'working'. We're down to around 45-50 in the morning and have around 30-35 back in the evening (including the quizzers and their leaders).

Last spring our leaders proposed doing away with the evening service and moving Sunday School to Sunday evening. That proposal was narrowly voted down by the church board. In my mind, it might have been accepted if it had been handled differently, but I'm not in a position of leadership so short of attempting to alert the one leader willing to listen to me that the chances of it passing weren't looking good from where I stood, I didn't get involved at all. (He listened but told me that he had discerned the will of God on the matter and continued on the course that brought about a negative vote. The fact that a majority of our church board members aren't able to discern the will of God for the church was very discouraging to those behind the proposal. They're still struggling with the frustration associated with wanting to move the church forward and feeling like they're unable to do so.)

So, yes, we have it. I miss it when we cancel for holidays or something. If we didn't have anything on Sunday evenings, I would probably look for a church that did and attend their services (as a visitor).

Marsha

[Barb Bouldrey]

We have service on Sunday night. Right now, we are doing the Quest for 40 days. John preaches on it on Sunday mornings and we dialog it on Sunday nights.

The teens have their own service on Sunday nights and a young adult group meets at one of the homes for a study of "Lord, Heal My Hurts."

So, we have a little traditional and little contemporary. We have a cell group and a regular service.

As we grow, I would not mind having two worship services on Sunday morning and Sunday School on Sunday night instead of a building program.

You have to do what works for your community and congregation...not just do what everyone else is doing.

Sunday night is just a traditional thing for the last 150 years. In the 1800s, in most of the U.S. the people had to wait for the circuit riding preacher to come by every few months. It was left up to the people to meet for worship on Sunday mornings and then get home by dark since there was no electricity.

Times are changing and we must change with it...if change is needed. Some churches are effective with the traditional Sunday evening service. Even young people come.

Barb

[Alisa Stoll]

We have been having prayer for God's vision for our church since Sept. on Sunday evenings. We will skip this in December and in January will start discussing what God has shown us.

Prior to this, our Sr. pastor rarely preached on Sunday evenings. Instead our associates or local licensed ministers roated on the preaching schedule. The first Sunday night of the month has been a continuing Bible Study with food/fellowship. So the Sunday night service is usually different each week.

Alisa

[Hans Deventer]

Another category has been added that should cover pretty well everything else :basic03

[Gina Stevenson]

Tho' they did have the "traditional evening service" years ago, I'm not sure when they changed, b/c they were having the small groups on Sunday evenings when I started hanging out there after returning to Michigan.

It's nice ... anyone who attends/has attended small groups knows how they so differ from a regular service. NOT to knock a "normal" service, but there everyone is sitting there, with someone talk to them ... in small group there is needed interaction, rather than just listening to one person. now, I do like our pastor's sermons -- tho' due to transportation issues, I've been getting to small group, but not the AM service, mostly. "not forsaking assembling ..." by attending small group sure helps when one can more easily borrow a vehicle in the afternoon/evening than in the morning [when it's more likely to be in use].

[Cindi Hammons]

Our church is "happily" strolling along with a Sunday Evening service that is easily 1/3 of the AM service attendance. We struggle to have people to run the sound system/play the instruments/video system/nursery (when there are children)/etc./etc. Each time an alternative is mentioned, some on the board (of which I am a part) think that we have become like those "mainline denominations." Nothing can shake most of them from this position. There are several reasons for this. One, they are afraid of about 4 elderly people in the church who hold tremendous power over others by categorically stating that anything other than the way the Nazarene church did it years ago is against what God wants. (I'm really not kidding about that one.) Two, we have a pastor who dislikes confrontation. I'm not talking out of school here. He has openly said that to our board. Three, new is bad, old is good. Recently, after a long time of laying the groundwork, the board allowed our teens to meet on Sunday evening...with the proviso that they must attend the "song service."

Our pastor and I attended New Church University together. When we returned, we compared notes. I'm not sure we attended the same seminar. Well, after two years of refocusing, we now have a new Mission Statement. Other than that...no real changes.

I love our church, and I love our church family...but I have decided that until a few of our elders die/relinquish their control, or we get a new pastor who is willing to "take on" some of these people...there is going to be very little real change. To me this is very sad since we are being left behind by a huge majority of Nazarene churches in the world.

What to do?

Cindi H.

[Mike Norris]

...We do not have a Sunday night service.....but we DO have Sunday Night Sunday School. We made the move almost 5 years ago when we went to two Sunday morning services. The decision to go to Sunday night Sunday School was made , in part , because we needed , in addition to more space for Sunday morning worship , to take care of a lack of parking . The only model that worked for us was Sunday night Sunday School.
Before we made that change , Sunday nights were becoming " older and greyer". Young adults would not attend , although we did everything imaginable to attract them to the evening worship. However , since the beginning of Sunday night Sunday School , I have a class of young adults that will average 45-60 in attendance each week.
Personally , I am not an advocate for Sunday night services ( the traditional kind of Sunday Night services ). My preference would be to have great Sunday morning worship services ( stick Sunday School in there somewhere )....and have NO services Sunday night. People are weary....they are getting ready for another hard week ahead......and need time for their families. I would rather see a vital and dynamic mid week ( typically , a Wednesday night )....that featured a cafeteria of offerings for all age groups....that would meet needs of various interest and age groupings.

[Walter Palmer]

Dear Jenny,
I love your idea of a Sunday PM comtempory service. You know there are several evey good contempory music cd's and videos available we use them in our Saturda night contemp. service that could help you.
walt

[William Hunter]

I posted a response on this issue on NN this morning and after hitting the refresh key I saw it here. Tonight my post on this subject is not here. Can anyone explain why?

We stopped Sunday PM services 4-5 yrs ago. Alot of the reason was the low attn. My people were telling me that they did not need two worship services in one day. We went to small groups and other activities on Sunday evenings have have far more participation than when we had a evening service. Some nights we have about 75-80% attn. of what our morning attn. was. I think the average return for Sunday PM is about 30-40% across the church, on a good night. We also push family together time during this time. My people are busy, just like yours, and it helps for the church to not be so locked into an event and can change and help families take time to be together. If the family is important it seems to me we should do that. Most of our church activities segragate family members into age appropreate activities, even in worship. We make sure our children are in after the sermon at the front end of the service, to enjoy being together with family in worship. My teens seem to really enjoy this time of the church family together in one room. In fact, I am fast coming to the place where I think small group Bible studies should include whole family units coming together to study the Word.

I have been doing alot of thinking about how, as a church community, we can help families do more as families and build those units of our church up and strengthen them. Part of the answer is having them together often in spiritual activities. I sure would be interested in hearing how others of you are helping families be together in church activities including worship, SS, and Bible studies.

[Jenny Mitchell]

Thanks, Walt, for your encouragement -- it is very much appreciated.

I also appreciate the info - I planned on using the CDs, but I still need song leader(s) - my a.m. song leader is in her 70s and does an excellent job but anything written since 1960 she'd rather not lead. And I'm the back up. While I can carry a tune, I really don't sing all that well, and although I love the contemporary stuff, I sing it even less well. I'm actually hoping that within the next year I can get some young teens with nice voices to work together to lead the singing for that service. I might have to sing with them - but that wouldn't be nearly so bad. I mentioned the possibility to them a couple of weeks ago and they didn't flip out on me, so I'll broach it more seriously after the holidays.

I think if we do this, I'd do largely narrative preaching during this service - it's the kind of preaching that comes most naturally to me. I think it is also a good type for connecting with teens/young adults/young at heart/currently not going to church.

Again - thanks for giving me the opportunity to do a little dreaming on line.

[Charlene Clevenger]

Jenny, we've been using the iworship DVD's for our new contemporary service. Maybe you could use something like that. It has the leaders voice, and pictures with the lyrics on the screen. I'm pretty sure other kinds are available besides iworship. We have a praise team that sings along. We're getting so we do more songs with just the music without the voice on the DVD, but we still use the voices for about half the songs.

[Jenny Mitchell]

Oh, wow - I didn't know the CDs had voices, too. The pictures and lyrics are pretty useless, though - we don't have a projection system or anywhere other than in front of some stained glass windows to put one....I'll just have to type out song sheets. The CDs have real possibilities.

No, I didn't know about Ken's arm. I'm so sorry - not much fun to have a broken bone. That might explain a little bit why I was the only one to show up at our regularly scheduled pastors' zone meeting Thursday a.m. However - I got to discover that I can get in and out of a booth and I had a very tasty breakfast at Cosmo's.

[BobHunt]

Its sad to hear that some search for meaning of the Sunday night service. We have had some of the best Bible classes and studies I have ever known! And they have enriched my spiritual and mental life! I have seen young people come together to worship and learn more about God. If you are searching to find meaning in the Sunday night service, maybe somethings wrong. It can be a rewarding time!

[William Hunter]

Our church is "happily" strolling along with a Sunday Evening service that is easily 1/3 of the AM service attendance. We struggle to have people to run the sound system/play the instruments/video system/nursery (when there are children)/etc./etc. Each time an alternative is mentioned, some on the board (of which I am a part) think that we have become like those "mainline denominations." Nothing can shake most of them from this position. There are several reasons for this. One, they are afraid of about 4 elderly people in the church who hold tremendous power over others by categorically stating that anything other than the way the Nazarene church did it years ago is against what God wants. (I'm really not kidding about that one.) Two, we have a pastor who dislikes confrontation. I'm not talking out of school here. He has openly said that to our board. Three, new is bad, old is good. Recently, after a long time of laying the groundwork, the board allowed our teens to meet on Sunday evening...with the proviso that they must attend the "song service."

Our pastor and I attended New Church University together. When we returned, we compared notes. I'm not sure we attended the same seminar. Well, after two years of refocusing, we now have a new Mission Statement. Other than that...no real changes.

I love our church, and I love our church family...but I have decided that until a few of our elders die/relinquish their control, or we get a new pastor who is willing to "take on" some of these people...there is going to be very little real change. To me this is very sad since we are being left behind by a huge majority of Nazarene churches in the world.

What to do?

Cindi H.

Cindi, I am sorry to hear about how things are going in your local church. when we met at NCU a couple of years ago I thought we'd hear of some good progress but it does not seem so. Just before I came here our DS invited three couples to leave the church I pastor for they were causing it not to grow and kept things in a turmoil. Some money left with them but the church has done well without them. Sometimes it seems God has to remove some people a local church so that it can follow Christ out into the cutting edge of ministry to lost people.

It is so sad to hear about people who have supported the church for so many years be so blind and backward in their understanding of the church. If these you talk about are allowed to rule, your church will stay platued or decrease in size, not being involved in the cause of Christ to reach souls. Such rigid mindsets always keep people from Christ. I wish there was a way to help such people see that what methods reached them will not reach people today, even in the most conversative areas of our country.

I do not know the situation first hand so I cannot say much, but from your description it is obvious that your congregation is not spiritually healthy and is in trouble. Your congregation is in my prayers.

[Cindi Hammons]

Bill,

Interestingly, since I wrote the note, one of the couples has sent a letter to the pastor and each board member announcing that they are leaving the church...and a lot of other garbage as well. I can't say I'm sad. But the others who cause waves are NOT is positions of leadership...yet they are problematic.

I agree that the church is very lukewarm, yet very few other board members seem to see this! Our church health survey was very clear on many areas of need...and they have been (for the most part) glossed over. Everyone is satisfied that we keep close to the same number in attendance, even thought that means for every new family that comes...one seems to leave. Just a note, I'm not an attendence freak, I'm more worried that the church seems to have a revolving door with families and keeps the same general attendence level. The church is set in the 1960's (for the most part). On a personal level, I really do like our pastor. He is a nice guy with a wonderful family. I enjoy talking with him and his family as well as socializing with them. On a professional level...I really get a lot out of his sermons, he is a great teacher. On an administrative level, our church will not progress with change until he moves on...due to his lack of desire to "rock the boat." I have decided that our church is just too nice and not willing to take the risk that changes may offend...seriously.

I appreciate the prayers...and maybe the start of change has happened with this one family leaving! Our board is going to have an emergency meeting Monday to discuss this family issue, and maybe it can end up in a meeting of praise, worship and healing of ideas. I can only hope and pray!

Thanks for your support! I know I can always count on your support and prayers in these issues!

Cindi H.

[Bruce Carriker]

Things that I've seen work:

Contemporary worship, in some cases even going so far as turning over Sunday Night to the youth pastor, the youth group praise band, etc.

"House churches" - small groups that meet in individual homes. I've seen them done where there are four "households" represented in each group, and the meeting place rotates each week; and I've seen it done where one family is the "host" family; but always each group had a designated leader or leadership team who were responsible for the lesson.

"Traditional" Sunday evening service.

Sunday evening Sunday school.

NO Sunday evening service.

Things I've seen NOT work: All of the above.


The bottom line on this is that there is no "right" answer. The rural church in the UP of Michigan, and the inner city church in Philadelphia, and the farm church in western Kansas, and the small town church in Alabama and the rich, white church in the KC suburbs aren't all the same church. They may all say Nazarene on the sign, though it took an act of the General Assembly to make that suburban church do that. They are all Nazarene, but they're not the same.

Every pastor has to look at his or her situation and, with the help of the board (hopefully one that's committed to leading, rather than merely preserving tradition) come up with what works in their congregation. And if you try something and it doesn't work, laugh it off, say, "Well, we tried but that sure flopped!", keep a charitable spirit towards everyone, and move on to something else.

This is a worthwhile discussion, but I think the responses we're seeing bear out what I've said. Two final comments:

AMEN! to whoever said, we don't care if we have 5 or 100 as long as they come to worship. AMEN!

AND...especially in light of that comment...why is it that almost all the responses posted here use ATTENDANCE as the measure of whether or not what you've tried is working? Why can't the growth and worship experience of those who DO choose to attend be the measure, rather than simply HOW MANY?

[William Hunter]

Bill,

Interestingly, since I wrote the note, one of the couples has sent a letter to the pastor and each board member announcing that they are leaving the church...and a lot of other garbage as well. I can't say I'm sad. But the others who cause waves are NOT is positions of leadership...yet they are problematic.

I agree that the church is very lukewarm, yet very few other board members seem to see this! Our church health survey was very clear on many areas of need...and they have been (for the most part) glossed over. Everyone is satisfied that we keep close to the same number in attendance, even thought that means for every new family that comes...one seems to leave. Just a note, I'm not an attendence freak, I'm more worried that the church seems to have a revolving door with families and keeps the same general attendence level. The church is set in the 1960's (for the most part). On a personal level, I really do like our pastor. He is a nice guy with a wonderful family. I enjoy talking with him and his family as well as socializing with them. On a professional level...I really get a lot out of his sermons, he is a great teacher. On an administrative level, our church will not progress with change until he moves on...due to his lack of desire to "rock the boat." I have decided that our church is just too nice and not willing to take the risk that changes may offend...seriously.

I appreciate the prayers...and maybe the start of change has happened with this one family leaving! Our board is going to have an emergency meeting Monday to discuss this family issue, and maybe it can end up in a meeting of praise, worship and healing of ideas. I can only hope and pray!

Thanks for your support! I know I can always count on your support and prayers in these issues!

Cindi H.

We have found that those who refuse to be involved with what Jesus is doing to win lost souls, who want to keep the church the way it has been and waiting for 1957 to come around again, often leave a church that is serious about the great Commission and they find a church where they can just sit and enjoy a church that is not involved in Christ's passion for lost people.

It is probably a good thing that those folks left. I would not take too seriously their issues for they apparently do not want the church to do anything that would reach out to lost people. I am concerned about spiritual leaders, both clergy and lay, who are afraid of conflict that they never take any risks to get involved with Jesus in what He is doing in this world. I am not talking about watering down the Gospel at all---but doing whatever it takes to connect lost people to Jesus. As far as I am concerned, everything except our Statement of Belief and the Word, gets put on the table for being upgraded, changed, or stopped in order that we might do those things that bring people and Jesus together.

When those who planted the churches we are in today did so, they used the most modern tools and insights available then to reach the lost and grow the church. But it is sad to watch those same people, instead of worshipping God and following Jesus into a lost world, they begin to worship the methods that brought them to Christ, methods that do not work in our post-modern culture. I see too many pastors afraid to lead their congregations into what Jesus is doing. We do not come in with a meat axe and make changes for change sake, but with good planning and bringing on board those in the church most concerned about reaching lost people, they move ahead---in spite of those who want to sit and never change.

When I went to Church Planters Bootcamp, we were told as pastors to give our best energy and time to working with those who want to be involved in what Christ is doing to reach a lost world. We were told that if any more than a max of 20% of our contact with people time is with those who want to sit, then we cannot lead those who want to reach lost people. I have come to see the truth in that kind of thinking. Oou focus must always be Christ, His passion for the lost, building up the Christians in Christ and bringing in the harvest of souls around us---not worshipping past, and now ineffective, methods. I hope you report on that board mtg. I am interested. My passion is the existing church. I do not believe we have to close as many as do for some could come back to like instead of being spiritually unhealthy or dead---separated from Christ is doing in our world to reach lost people. This passion of mine for the existing church makes me very interested in what is happening over your way. I do pray for you and your church.

[Rick Morton]

Well, I answered yes, and its working well, BUT I should explain. Yes, my church does have sunday night church and it is working well and there is a good attendance.

However


I attend a Sunday night bible study at another church! GASP! A Methodist Church. DOUBLE GASP! But I really enjoy it. This methodist church does not have church services on Sunday night, but the teens meet on Sunday night and a few small groups meet.

Currently we are reading from "The Message" and discussing the scripture we read. This is interesting because I have more of a conservative point of few than than the others. But, everyone respects the others opinions and it has been a growing experience for me.

I love the Nazarene church, but I have thought for some years now that we feel guilty if we do not go to Sunday night services.

Marsha,
Don't feel bad I to have been a Nazarene all my life. But for the last year I've been going to a Methodist Church on Sundays night for a Bible Study and love it. Sometimes when ask were I go to church I don't no which one to tell them, I love them both. But deep down I no I'll always be a Nazarene.

[Ian Robertson]

I voted "Yes, and it's great." We have several activities on Sunday evenings, with each meeting the needs of a segment of our congregation. We are fortunate in having a large attendance for, honestly, this would be overkill for a congregation of 50.

First, we have a "Back and Forth" service, led by our Teaching Pastor Chuck Wilkes for the old-time Nazarenes who love the old hymns. They are not forgotten. The challenge is that we go back to some of the old things, so that we may move forward to today's challenge. We have a most active PrimeTime organization that has a goal of reaching a thousand for Christ because they have vision, and the pastoral staff know they are important.

Second, we have a contemporary service on Sunday nights to impact today's post-modern crowd. They meet in the Youth Center.

Third, our teens have their small groups on Sunday nights, meeting in a large home.

Fourth, we have offered seminars on Sunday evenings in one of our classrooms. The best attended so far has been "Financial Peace University," which has drawn mostly young couples so far. This has proved to be an effective outreach event, as it is advertised in the community.

This works in Spokane Valley. It may not work forever. We continue to learn, adjusting methods, but keeping the Message central.

[Colleen Davis]

Our church still has Sunday night services. We tried Praise & Worship on the
1st Sunday night of the month, small groups (men vs women) on the 2nd one, Praise & Worship on the 3rd and Ministry Team meetings (fellowship, music, finance, follow-up, etc) on the 4th one. The 5th is a community service between 4-5 churches in the area. We found the attendance was declining so much we decided to go back to a regular service but making it family oriented and a relaxed atmosphere. It just started this month, so we'll see how it goes. The board voted to dismiss Sun nights when it's a holiday weekend so families can be together.

[Judy Hamilton]

I will not say so much as "those were the days my friend we thought they'd never end"..as they have..ended for many churches

anyway..i have been working every week-end since arriving here in Salinas..have tonight off..worked last night
so slept a bit and am determined

to find a church with the door open on this evening
however this presents a bit of a challenge

I passed those going into church at the Catholic church this morning and was tempted to stop and worship

then thought better of this as I really needed a shower
and anyway Catholic Mass is so active i would probably stand when i need sit kneel when i need to stand and vise versa

I have decided to go the the First AoG here in Salinas..as it is close and locatable
and the other choice was the First Baptist
seems the larger churches do hold evening services

so anyway I chose Wesley over Calvin

at this point it really matters little to this gal as
i just want to join Believers tonight in corporate worship

Judy

[BobHunt]

Judy, I used to go to Sunday night church at 6:30 pm for "Young Peoples Mettin" and then after that Sunday night service....we would get home about 10pm. Now, people complain if they sit in church for an hour!!

[Gina Stevenson]

I have decided to go the the First AoG here in Salinas..as it is close and locatable
and the other choice was the First Baptist
seems the larger churches do hold evening services

A couple of miles from here (closer than the Naz) is an AoG church. Actually, like their current pastor; hear him on TV once in awhile. Interesting things he does. For instance, their latest is helping sponsor a racecar (so the church's name is on one of the cars, along with some other sponsors---church isn't the only one; that would be too much $$) at Berlin Raceway here in Marne. So, they had a car there in the auditorium, and the backdrop behind his sermon (on TV this afternoon) was a picture of the racetrack. "By all means ...." ;)

BTW, he eats junk food, too ... one day I was at McD's (uh-oh ... squealed on myself! Well, it was for a breakfast sandwich; once every few months I might do that), and he, his wife, and kids were there.

[Anne and Dwayne Hood]

We had a wonderful service tonight--a very good men's quartet, the timely sermon of the pastor--and, in the door walked a lady and her family that Dwayne had invited to church. We learned that they attended last Sunday morning when Dwayne was speaking in Arkansas. What if the doors had been closed and locked? They seemed very interested in attending services there.

[Gina Stevenson]

Looks like tonight a lot of NN'ers met right here, rather than in a church building.

[Bob Evans]

When I was a pastor I didn't really like it because of the creation of a second sermon. But as a non pastor I had two years of Sunday nights before my church eliminated them. Believe it or not I miss them.

[Judy Hamilton]

Well I went, met the pastor at the door. There was to be a special slide presentation from someone just returning from Israel. The pastor asked if I had come to hear him speak. I replied, no, I am just here to meet with my friend Jesus
and the Lord was so special during the worship

nothing hype, no rehearsal, just the simple piano and the one leading playing from his heart, with eyes closed, one anointed song after the other.

I am so glad i went

Judy

[Jim Franklin]

My dad would have been 122 if he had lived until this July 31. I think he would have considered churches without Sunday evening service as missing a great opportunity to reach out to the community. He often used the slogan "shining lights on Sunday nights." The church at Sun Valley, AZ where the staff of SVIS worship has Sunday evening services and I really miss. Sometimes we would get so blessed in the singing of hymns that we would get blessed and go to shouting. What a blessing they were and I really miss Sunday evening services.

[Susan Unger]

When I moved here 2.5 years ago they just stopped having a regular pm service. Now small groups can meet at this time if they choose.

I really miss having a Sunday PM service. But...I really enjoy being able to sit back and relax after AM church is over. Definitely a confused person...:o

[Cindi Hammons]

Since this thread was started 3 years ago, much has changed for Mark and I in the "church department" of our lives. We have since left the church we were attending, and reading back over this, I can see that we should have left at the time of this thread (but not for all the same reasons). Sigh....

Our old church continues to cling to 1960's ideas and is currently running well under the 100 range. They have been without a pastor for almost a year, and the church is ill. Even though their numbers are dwindling, they continue to refuse to make any changes to their methods. ANY modernization in methods is seen as selling out to the devil. Sad.

To get back to the poll, our new church is growing by leaps and bounds. Every Sunday there are new people attending that I have never seen before. We are growing in all areas, and continue to reach out to our community. We do NOT have a traditional Sunday night service. Sunday nights consist of a 10 minute gathering, the band plays, we sing and pray, and our fearless leader sends us off usually with a particularly bad joke! Ha! We then break into our small groups. I LOVE this set-up! Since changing the way Sunday nights have been structured, the attendance for SS/Sunday Nights has doubled. Children have age-appropriate groups or Children's Bible Quizzing, teens have their own group-time, and adults may choose a variety of topical small groups. It really has been a good thing for our family.

I believe that their is no wrong way to do church (as long as it conforms with scriptural teaching). So, I do not think that churches who do things "old fashioned" are wrong. Not at all. In fact, I believe it is important that people find a place that fits their spiritual needs, and there is a demographic out their that wants the more traditional ways of worship...that includes Sunday night service. However, when a church clings to that when all signs point to the fact that the church is failing, then they are not fulfilling the great commission to the best of their abilities. If a traditional church is thriving....more power to them, seriously. But if the traditional church is failing, they need to be asking God for direction on how to change and meet the current needs of their community.

[Marsha Lynn]

Things have changed here, too. Same church but time has passed. I wondered why I hadn't voted in the poll. The obvious choice at this point is the last -- a different situation.

We almost always have something on Sunday evening, but rarely (once in the past year?) a traditional service. The idea (which few people really notice) is to cycle through Rick Warren's purposes for the church. This past Sunday was fellowship week -- caroling (brrrrrrrr), a soup supper, and a movie (or games for those not interested in the movie). The week before was NMI meeting - evangelism, I suppose. Next week is our default format -- a brief video followed by discussion. (Nooma from Rob Bell currently.) I suppose that is discipleship. (I don't always notice the theme, either. I just show up for whatever happens.) The young adult class has scheduled a shuffleboard tournament afterward and invited the entire church, but that's not part of the program. Just something fun to do during Christmas break.

It works out well. A 7th-grader whose younger siblings have become involved in the Wednesday night children's activities has joined us the past two Sundays for morning worship as the Christmas program pulled her mother in. She came to the soup supper Sunday evening with the family that brings her siblings. It was nice for her to be able to join the teen group for the supper and check out the environment for the games the teens/young adults played afterward -- charades and Sly Winkum. It was a good non-threatening environment in that she could escape and go watch the movie with the adults if the teens scared her too badly. She didn't use her escape options, so I guess it wasn't too bad for her.

After years of having Sunday evening services, we tend to include a trip back to church in our Sunday evening plans anyway. Having a variety of activities offered makes it worth going back without anyone being responsible for week after week of the same format. And there's always the possibility that a light-hearted round of charades with kids who find great enjoyment in each other's company and are always willing to include a newby in the fun might have as much value as lining up in pews for another round of church music and a sermon.

I'm never quite sure what to say, however, when people ask about our Sunday evening schedule. I guess they just need to come on Sunday morning and get the scoop on what's happening that particular week.

Marsha

Since this thread was started 3 years ago, much has changed for Mark and I in the "church department" of our lives. We have since left the church we were attending, and reading back over this, I can see that we should have left at the time of this thread (but not for all the same reasons). Sigh....

Our old church continues to cling to 1960's ideas and is currently running well under the 100 range. They have been without a pastor for almost a year, and the church is ill. Even though their numbers are dwindling, they continue to refuse to make any changes to their methods. ANY modernization in methods is seen as selling out to the devil. Sad.

To get back to the poll, our new church is growing by leaps and bounds. Every Sunday there are new people attending that I have never seen before. We are growing in all areas, and continue to reach out to our community. We do NOT have a traditional Sunday night service. Sunday nights consist of a 10 minute gathering, the band plays, we sing and pray, and our fearless leader sends us off usually with a particularly bad joke! Ha! We then break into our small groups. I LOVE this set-up! Since changing the way Sunday nights have been structured, the attendance for SS/Sunday Nights has doubled. Children have age-appropriate groups or Children's Bible Quizzing, teens have their own group-time, and adults may choose a variety of topical small groups. It really has been a good thing for our family.

I believe that their is no wrong way to do church (as long as it conforms with scriptural teaching). So, I do not think that churches who do things "old fashioned" are wrong. Not at all. In fact, I believe it is important that people find a place that fits their spiritual needs, and there is a demographic out their that wants the more traditional ways of worship...that includes Sunday night service. However, when a church clings to that when all signs point to the fact that the church is failing, then they are not fulfilling the great commission to the best of their abilities. If a traditional church is thriving....more power to them, seriously. But if the traditional church is failing, they need to be asking God for direction on how to change and meet the current needs of their community.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

These days we're going with this Sunday night schedule:

Week 1: Fellowship and food
Week 2: Church Board
Week 3: (intentionally left open - no church meetings, committee meetings allowed)
Week 4: Ladies' Meeting

I think it's working okay - at least no one is calling for a move back to the former approach.

[Marsha Lynn]

These days we're going with this Sunday night schedule:

Week 1: Fellowship and food
Week 2: Church Board
Week 3: (intentionally left open - no church meetings, committee meetings allowed)
Week 4: Ladies' Meeting

I think it's working okay - at least no one is calling for a move back to the former approach.

What happens on Week 5?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

What happens on Week 5?

We pretty much make it up as we go along! VBS prep, rehearsals, nothing.

[Melodie Eisenhofer]

We have small groups in homes instead. Then once a month all the small groups meet together for fellowship in the gym.

[Edith K. Thurmond]

The youth meet every Sunday evening and the church-at-large meets once a month for Evensong which is followed by a time of food and fellowship. Evensong is a blessed time and always welcomed. It is led by the choristers and musicians and the clergy have no participation that involves long preparations. After having weekly Thursday night, Saturday night, and three Sunday morning services, the clergy and parishioners are glad to not have weekly Sunday night services!


Advent blessings,

[Glenda Harvey]

Our Church (non-denominational) is going to start Sunday Evening services in January. The service is going to be led by the Youth Pastor so will probably be very youth oriented. I've noticed the trend in very large Churches is that people who attend the Sunday Evening services do so in place of going to a morning service.

[Tami Martin]

I see a little of both "it's great" and "it's not working" in my church in regards to our evening services.

But for me, it comes down to exhaustion. I work full time in children's mental health and my regular job is emotionally draining. I also teach the adult SS class and lead worship/direct choir. I spend all day on Sunday - or so it seems - at the church. We have no rest. Part of that is my own inability to say "no" on Sunday evenings. We do choir practice in the hour before the evening service and since I'm already there, it's hard to leave before church starts.

Our evening service is about 1/3 the attendance of our morning service. I'd like to see us make some major changes in the evening service to reach out to a diffferent segment of our community, but we are a little too married to our programs.

[Paula Karr]

Our church has services on Saturday night, Sunday morning, and Sunday evening. Currently, the schedule is:

Mesa Campus:
Saturday - 4:30 and 6:30*
Sunday - 9:00 and 11:00

Gilbert Campus (All on Sunday):
9:00, 11:00, 4:30, 6:30*

All services are contemporary, except those marked with an * - they are classified as Third Format -- louder and younger than the contemporary services.

We will be adding a third morning service on the Gilbert Campus in January. Since opening that campus two years ago, we have matched the attendance on the original campus (approximately 3,300 families each campus) and more growth is anticipated. The pastor frequently asks regular attenders to switch to the later services (4:30) to make room in the earlier services for visitors, who tend to come at more traditional times.

All of these services are regular worship services. Central strongly encourages all attendees to become involved in small groups, and those meet on different days of the weeks and different times, depending on what works best for that group.

Paula

[Susan Unger]

I've noticed the trend in very large Churches is that people who attend the Sunday Evening services do so in place of going to a morning service.

This is why I like evening services. I sometimes can't make it to church on Sunday AM so liked it when I could to church at night. I don't have that option now and so now have no church option for Sundays that I am not well in the AM.

[David Parker]

Another thread back from the dead! :)

We have watched as many churches eliminate or reduce Sunday night services. Our old church finally went to once a month. Even then it was poorly attended.

Our new church also has one service a month, but what a difference. It is promoted all month and always features special ministry. It starts at 6:00 and the doors open at 5:15. If you don't arrive by 5:00 and stand in line with hundreds for the doors to open, you will get a poor seat, and if you don't get there by 5:30, you may not get a seat. We seat 1600. We look forward to this service all month and won't miss it.

As to evening/morning services, I much prefer evenings. We have a Saturday evening and three Sunday morning services each week, and we almost always go on Saturday. It is wonderful having Sunday mornings with the family. And having done a lot of shift work in my early years, I really appreciated what Joel Merrill said (http://www.naznet.com/community/showpost.php?p=5490&postcount=14) in his earlier post. Goes to show what is lost when people won't think outside of their box.

For instance, our church has open prayer Tues-Fri mornings from 9:00-11:00 AM and Fri 7:00-9:00 PM. All the staff, interns, and ministry students are always there and the rest of us are invited to drop in anytime, even if for only a part of the time. There is rarely less than a hundred present and often many more. It's patterned after International House of Prayer (http://www.ihop.org/Group/Group.aspx?ID=1000037020) and functions much the same way. Whatever your work schedule or routines, it can work. The church just needs to be able to adjust to changing needs.

[Eric Forgrave]

We have been having prayer for God's vision for our church since Sept. on Sunday evenings. We will skip this in December and in January will start discussing what God has shown us.

Alisa

Alisa is this a corporate gathering for prayer or individual / family prayer emphasis? How is it approached / structured?

[Alisa Stoll]

We've finished but the way we approached it was the following:

The board determined areas for vision - each area was assigned a board member or leader to be in charge of the group. Attendance was the responsibility of the leader and was important. The pastor opened the service with a song and explaination. Those who attented were given a list of vision areas and asked to pick three - one from each column. Then fifteen minutes was given for prayer time for each area. For the first month or so, prayer was individual. Then for another month or so prayer was coporate within the group. Then we spent a month or so discussing God's leading during those prayer times. Finally each group leader compiled 3 to 5 vision statements. The board then discussed the vision statements and but them in a unified format/fixed grammar and then shared them with the congregation.

As to what we are doing now. One Sunday night a month is for prayer and one is for outreach. The other two are considered family time.

Alisa

[Susan Unger]

anyway..i have been working every week-end since arriving here in Salinas..have tonight off..worked last night
so slept a bit and am determined

to find a church with the door open on this evening
however this presents a bit of a challenge



This is why I miss Sunday pm church. With chronic migraines, I can't always be there for AM church. My former church had a Sunday pm service so I still had church. My current one doesn't so if I miss, then I miss for the week. :gen01

[Joel Merrill]

I work nights and don't normally get up until 1:00 in the afternoon. When the kids were home, I went to the morning service but could not enjoy it. I could stay awake in sunday school but I had to fight to stay awake during the preaching service. I got nothing out of the service except a headache and then I slept all afternoon and wasted the day.

Now the kids are grown up and my wife also works nights. We don't go to the morning service but our church has a wonderful evening service. We also get a tape of the morning service every week.

There are lots of people who go in the morning but not at night. We just do it the other way around.

Joel

[Mike Wooldridge]

Judy, I used to go to Sunday night church at 6:30 pm for "Young Peoples Mettin" and then after that Sunday night service....we would get home about 10pm. Now, people complain if they sit in church for an hour!!

Bob, our NYPS (now NYI) started at 6:15 PM, then church at 7:00. After church the teens would usually meet somewhere for burgers and drinks, then some cruisin' around before going home. Since I grew up in west Texas, we would listen to KOMA (http://www.komaradio.com/) in Oklahoma City. The station was a great recruitment tool to get me to go to BNC/SNU. I still love OKC. Ahh, memories! :q)

[Mike Killingsworth]

I voted yes, but it's not working well because the ones who do come don't seem that excited about being there. I would love to see some kind of changes made with the way we do things but our bunch don't care a whole lot for change and I feel like our church is slowly dying in some respects because of this. I guess if I were to compare our Sunday evening service to our Midweek service I would then have to say our Sunday evening service is great. It takes all I can do to attend our Weds. evening service and I really believe if some kind of change isn't made with it and soon that there may not be enough attending to continue to have a service. Since I am the song director in the church I feel guilty sometimes when I don't attend but then I also work at nights like Joel. I work from midnight to eight and some mornings when I do get in the bed I have a rough time going to sleep and it may be 3 or 4 in the afternoon before I fall asleep and on days such as that I don't even think about trying to get up at 6 so I can be at church by 7 on Weds. night. I am off on weekends now so going to church on Sunday morning and Sunday nights isn't a problem for me. I do remember years ago when I had to work weekends I would go to church on Sunday mornings but then not go back on Sunday nights and like Joel said in his first post I had some good old saints to come and tell me how I needed to go home and get a quick nap and get back to church. One things for certain I always had someone praying for me cause they would say things like I'm going to pray for you that you be back in church tonight and I would always tell them to go ahead and pray and if the Lord wakes me up and says "Mike get up and get to church" then I will be right here. Of course the Lord never did such as that because unlike some folks the Lord knows a person who works at night has to sleep sometime. Well I can also say that none of those who always knew what was best for me had no idea what it's like to work a midnight shift since none had ever done so. I have rambled enough so I'll close by saying that I hope we can continue to have all our services but I do pray that God will help others to see that we do need to make some type of change in the way we do things. I long for the days to return when people who attend our church will be able to say when they leave that it was truly good to be in God's house regardless of what service it is that they are attending.

[Susan Unger]

I had some good old saints to come and tell me how I needed to go home and get a quick nap and get back to church.

That's the reason why though I want a Sunday PM service...I am not too crushed that we don't have one though. Sunday isn't always a day of rest for folks like yourself.

[Cynthia Prentice]

Our church is an inner city church surrounded by apartments with a field adjacent to our parking lot. We decided to stop trying to get people to come into the church and instead we decided to go out to them. So,on Sunday nights we have our service out in the field. It is not a typical service but one geared for children (teens and adults like it too) with music (toby mac cranked up), puppets, bounce house, snacks, and sometimes crafts.

[Susan Unger]

Our church is an inner city church surrounded by apartments with a field adjacent to our parking lot. We decided to stop trying to get people to come into the church and instead we decided to go out to them. So,on Sunday nights we have our service out in the field. It is not a typical service but one geared for children (teens and adults like it too) with music (toby mac cranked up), puppets, bounce house, snacks, and sometimes crafts.
Love the idea!!!