Word of faith teaching

[Judy McDonald]

Recently I've begun to hear (NOT from the pulpit, but in small group situations through church) phrases like, "whatever you want from the Lord, SPEAK it out because your words have power..."speak to those things that are not as though they are..." I asked the individual the reference for that verse. She said Rom. 4:17. I looked it up and it's talking about GOD speaking and bring things to pass, like Abraham having a son in his old age, and the power of the resurrection, etc.....nothing about OUR power to speak whatever we want (new car, house, even spiritual victories???). I have a book on cults and false teachings, and this "word of faith" teaching is right there! The authors say if we can't preach this "gospel" to the pitiful masses in India or Sudan, we have no business teaching it in the US or other Western, more prosperous nations! The truth is the truth, for all time, for all people, in all places....but I don't remember Paul "speaking" his way out of prison!!! What do some of the rest of you think?

[Ian Gentles]

Well, to be honest, its a load of rot!
I have been in ministry for 27 years, and this last year has seen us broke more than ever before....so again , its a load of rot!
Let reality reign!
Course if your friends are serious, we could do with a few thousand, and God recommends they provide! ok J/k

[Judy McDonald]

I agree with your assessment! This teaching is more pervasive all the time...especially during a TBN Telethon!!! I cringe to think of the thousands who are being led astray by these TV preachers. I was mortified to see some of my favorite people on TBN! I wouldn't be caught dead on the same stage as you know who...pink hair...if you get my drift!
By the way, anything new regarding your bank situation? I imagine you closed your account, right?

[Judy Engel]

This kind of thing is part of the "Vineyard" movement and it scares me to pieces. There are those in my own family (in-laws actually) who have gotten sucked into this movement and it has definatley caused some barriers between us. We have the power of the Holy Spirit behind us, backing us up, no doubt but there is NO magical formula for making God do what WE want Him to do. I would have a really serious sit down with this person and let them know that this is not supported by the church....but that's just me :basic05

[John Kennedy]

I once heard a Methodist minister preach a very thought-provoking sermon on the text "and God gave them the desire of their hearts in the leanness of their souls" or words to that effect. Don't ask me for the reference - couldn't furnish it if my life depended on it. The main idea was analogous to that saying about 'be careful what you wish for, you may get it."

It proceeds form a view of God that sees him as some sort of cosmic vending machine into which we insert sufficient faith and recieve what we want, whether or not it's really what God wants us to have. To me it represents an approach to God in which we attempt to manipulate him into giving in to our whims. We thus attempt to place God at our disposal rather than the other way around.

I was always taught to pray with the proviso, "Your will be done" (a phrase that appears in another prayer that many of us pray daily).

The whole "name-it-and-claim-it", "word-of-faith", '"blab-and-grab", "positive confession" school of thought (with that cres, "school of thought may well be an oxymoronb) is one of the most compelling reasons I know for insisting on a well-trained clergy and theology informed laity.

Other than the above, I have no particular opinion on the subject.

John Kennedy

[Mark Metcalfe]

I am a writer by trade - not the novel kind - the technical manual kind.
Words are very powerful, precious, and sometimes delicious.

In a recent sermon the preacher said "words do things." He didn't mean it
in the way the posts have been headed (with name-it-and-claim-it doctrines).
However, verbalizing something is more powerful than simply thinking it in
your head. An example:

On a rare father and son return trip from Ohio, my Dad brought the conversation
to a serious tone. He said something like "there comes a time in a man's life
when he has to forgive his parents for the perceived wrongs. And I know I
haven't been the perfect father. I am asking you to forgive me."

I protested, saying that I loved him and that it wasn't necessary but he
was insistent. So I said the words: "I forgive you." I wasn't lying before I said
these words. Whatever perceived shortcomings I thought he had as a young
man, I had dealt with and forgiven him (and myself) long before he brought
up the subject. And yet, there was something perfectly satisfying and
emancipating from speaking the words.

I have a whole lot of other things I would love to say about the power
of words, but this testimony is powerful enough. This wasn't magic (as
the base note seems to be referring to); it was miraculous.

Mark