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Thread: Dan Bohi revival

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    Senior Member Greg Gates's Avatar

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    Dan Bohi revival

    Just completed a 3 day revival with Mr. Bohi. Our first service had an excellent ( for us) attendance of 162 and lasting from 7:30 PM to 11:30 PM. 88 people stayed until the end. Almost half the people wanted to be counted as having received a miraculous healing (mostly not physical issues). A significant portion of the people prayed for had to be caught as their knees gave way. A major theme of his preaching seemed to be that God wants us to seek the miraculous in our evangelistic ministries. Overall my impression is that our congregation found great spiritual help through his ministry.

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    Senior Member Jim Chabot's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    Just completed a 3 day revival with Mr. Bohi. Our first service had an excellent ( for us) attendance of 162 and lasting from 7:30 PM to 11:30 PM. 88 people stayed until the end. Almost half the people wanted to be counted as having received a miraculous healing (mostly not physical issues). A significant portion of the people prayed for had to be caught as their knees gave way. A major theme of his preaching seemed to be that God wants us to seek the miraculous in our evangelistic ministries. Overall my impression is that our congregation found great spiritual help through his ministry.
    Thanks Greg, this is great news. Praying that you will be instrumental in watering the spiritual growth that has sprouted in this sudden downpour. While some may fall right back as a flash in the pan, we have so many of our older folks who will point to a watershed moment in their lives as making a lifelong difference. While I'm not a fan of secondness, there is something to be said about the permanent effects of a powerful message that penetrates to the very soul. Glad to hear of those who have been spurred on to Faith and to Trust!

    Many years ago, Jorge Barros told the story of the wedding at Cana, and how Mary had instructed the servants to do whatever Jesus asked them. I'll never forget the phrase that Jorge repeated four or five times throughout that message. "If you want a miracle, then do what He tells you to do!" We lack in the miraculous because we lack in faith and in trust.

    Thanks Greg, today is going to be a good day, I can feel it already!
    -Jim

    To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.

    Garrison Keillor
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    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Chabot View Post
    We lack in the miraculous because we lack in faith and in trust.
    Absolutely!
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a


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    Senior Member Jim Franklin's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Praise the Lord for the moving of His Holy Spirit and may it continue.

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    Just completed a 3 day revival with Mr. Bohi. Our first service had an excellent ( for us) attendance of 162 and lasting from 7:30 PM to 11:30 PM. 88 people stayed until the end. Almost half the people wanted to be counted as having received a miraculous healing (mostly not physical issues). A significant portion of the people prayed for had to be caught as their knees gave way. A major theme of his preaching seemed to be that God wants us to seek the miraculous in our evangelistic ministries. Overall my impression is that our congregation found great spiritual help through his ministry.
    Could you report on the other services?

    Pleased to hear of people receiving help through the Miracle Worker!

    Friend,

    Wes

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    Senior Member Greg Gates's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Smith View Post
    Could you report on the other services?
    The Saturday night service was poorly attended with 40 people. I honestly think most were all still exhausted from Friday. Mr. Bohi preached 2 hours, very solid message. I benefited from listening to it again yesterday and today (half and half).

    Sunday morning we had about 150 in the service. Again he preached a very good message for about an hour and then invited people to come forward who wanted to (re)dedicate their lives to the Lord. After that he invited people who wanted to be physically healed to come forward. About 30-40 came up. He asked them to stand shoulder to shoulder across the front of the platform and he went from person to person spending time praying for each. Some collapsed but most didn't. Some people burst out crying as he prayed for them. It was very moving and I felt the people were hungry for the Lord. He certainly did not say anything or encourage anything demonstrative, and he didn't criticize it either. In his words, he accepts the variety of ways people respond to the Holy Spirit.

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    Senior Member Greg Gates's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    My (not enough time to consider it more in depth) response to Dan Bohi's messages is to regret our treatment of Pentecostals in the 1970s and 80s.

    I was a Nazarene missionary kid in Brazil during this time. My parents were prevented from returning to Brazil as missionaries for a year because of the speaking in tongues "inquisition." We lost a fantastic missionary couple to the AoG because of the issue. Our Brazilian pastors felt hamstrung (my words, not theirs) because of the denomination's hard stance on this single issue. We are certainly tongues-speaking free but what did such a stance cost us overall? What did we get for the price we paid? If we had known how we would end up would we have taken the same stance?

    A couple years ago I attended (by accident/spying) a AoG district pastors meeting. The ds said, "speaking in tongues is no evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit!" and all the pastors responded with verbal affirmations. I about fell off my chair. I went away thinking I should be feeling victorious. But I was driving back to a church that was as empty of the Holy Spirit's presence as we had accused pentecostals of being.

    This is just a question. Did our strong stance against speaking in tongues have other unintended consequences? I attended a Columbus OH camp meeting in the early 80's that I haven't seen the likes of since, and they haven't either. Why are we not like that anymore? Were we going down a bad path? Have we changed for the better? These are honest questions. I do not have an agenda. Maybe a midlife crisis... hahaha
    Thanks Nate Pruitt, Gina Stevenson - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    My (not enough time to consider it more in depth) response to Dan Bohi's messages is to regret our treatment of Pentecostals in the 1970s and 80s.

    ...

    This is just a question. Did our strong stance against speaking in tongues have other unintended consequences?
    I'm glad to hear someone say your first line. I have felt like this for some time now. My P/C friends are so on fire for God because they are desperate for God in all of his fullness. I always have enjoyed and benefitted from their praying and love of praying regardless of whether it was praying in tongues or not.

    An unintended consequence that I am familiar with would be my childhood church. The rather staid, emotionless pastor was very disturbed by the whole charismatic renewal that he would regularly preach against all that including saying "If you pray more than five minutes a day, you're just doing it for show." Decades of that led to a church that rarely if ever prayed. That church is so spiritually dead that I still don't know why the doors are still open. And indeed, there have been a few times that the doors almost shut. I left that place so bruised and broken. I can only believe that that happened because of the spiritual coldness that comes from lack of obedience to God and lack of praying.
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a


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    Thanks Nate Pruitt, Gina Stevenson, Greg Gates - "thanks" for this post

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    Full Member Jon Privett's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    We had a great time with Dan Bohi, overall. Those who were hungry for more of God were filled and helped. Some fell over when prayed for. A few seemed to grandstand more than I expected.

    Dan reaches people for God. Most importantly, the prayer process before our time with Dan really helped us and we plan to have a revival focus every single year, just with a different speaker.

    We had eight churches participate. Pretty cool. I think I heard more charismatics speaking in tongues in a Nazarene church than I ever imagined. However, it was who they were and they were welcome to be with us. Dan never insisted anyone act out and actually worked against it.

    I have some theological concerns about the trajectory of Dan's preaching but I will be happy to see God work and figure out the rest later.
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    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    This is just a question. Did our strong stance against speaking in tongues have other unintended consequences? I attended a Columbus OH camp meeting in the early 80's that I haven't seen the likes of since, and they haven't either. Why are we not like that anymore? Were we going down a bad path? Have we changed for the better?
    I hate baby/bathwater arguments, but the anti-tongues Gestapo of yesteryear likely harmed the denomination far more than anything the AoG interlopers could have done.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis

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    Multi-Forum Host Kevin Rector's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    But I was driving back to a church that was as empty of the Holy Spirit's presence as we had accused Pentecostals of being.
    Greg, would you mind fleshing this out for me? What does a church that is full of the presence of the Holy Spirit look like? I just think before we can have a meaningful conversation about the presence of the Spirit we should know what we are talking about.

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    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Cox View Post
    I hate baby/bathwater arguments, but the anti-tongues Gestapo of yesteryear likely harmed the denomination far more than anything the AoG interlopers could have done.
    I'm on the credentials board here. We are recognizing credentials from a pastor coming from the United Methodist Church and one from the Church of God of Prophesy this year. Neither would have been possible in the 80s. I think we've come a long way.
    Thanks Susan Unger, Gina Stevenson, Billy Cox - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Doug Ward's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    My (not enough time to consider it more in depth) response to Dan Bohi's messages is to regret our treatment of Pentecostals in the 1970s and 80s.

    I was a Nazarene missionary kid in Brazil during this time. My parents were prevented from returning to Brazil as missionaries for a year because of the speaking in tongues "inquisition." We lost a fantastic missionary couple to the AoG because of the issue. Our Brazilian pastors felt hamstrung (my words, not theirs) because of the denomination's hard stance on this single issue. We are certainly tongues-speaking free but what did such a stance cost us overall? What did we get for the price we paid? If we had known how we would end up would we have taken the same stance?

    A couple years ago I attended (by accident/spying) a AoG district pastors meeting. The ds said, "speaking in tongues is no evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit!" and all the pastors responded with verbal affirmations. I about fell off my chair. I went away thinking I should be feeling victorious. But I was driving back to a church that was as empty of the Holy Spirit's presence as we had accused pentecostals of being.

    This is just a question. Did our strong stance against speaking in tongues have other unintended consequences? I attended a Columbus OH camp meeting in the early 80's that I haven't seen the likes of since, and they haven't either. Why are we not like that anymore? Were we going down a bad path? Have we changed for the better? These are honest questions. I do not have an agenda. Maybe a midlife crisis... hahaha
    Every so often I reach in my closet and pull out my brown shirt to wear -- it still fits!
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.

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    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Our movement came out strongly against tongues from the get go.

    Dr. Bresee's Response

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    Senior Member Doug Ward's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Privett View Post
    I have some theological concerns about the trajectory of Dan's preaching but I will be happy to see God work and figure out the rest later.
    This is the sentence that always troubles me, and I think is a far bigger problem than we usually think.
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
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    Senior Member Greg Gates's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Our movement came out strongly against tongues from the get go.

    Dr. Bresee's Response
    I remember reading that article. Funny how wrong he was about the tongue speaking effect. But I would also like to point out that what was normal congregational behavior on a Sunday for Bresee on 6th and Wall would be a far more Pentecostal-like experience in any Nazarene church in America today.

    Like I alluded to earlier... In 1981 my parents, on starting a furlough from Brazil, went to Europe for academic reasons, and left me with a relative (Paul Gamertsfelder) and they took me to the Columbus OH camp meeting. There I saw happening exactly what we were trying to stamp out or keep from happening in Brazil.

    And what I was told repeatedly there was that what I saw was nothing compared to how "wild" things used to be, and my relatives were totally complicit. My point is just that in the early 1970's we changed as a denomination. Who we are today is very different than who we were.
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    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    There is no doubt that the Wesleyan holiness movement and the Pentecostal movement are related. They are our theological children. I think in distancing ourselves from them, we maintained the purity of holiness, but lost a great deal of the power of holiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    I remember reading that article. Funny how wrong he was about the tongue speaking effect. But I would also like to point out that what was normal congregational behavior on a Sunday for Bresee on 6th and Wall would be a far more Pentecostal-like experience in any Nazarene church in America today.

    Like I alluded to earlier... In 1981 my parents, on starting a furlough from Brazil, went to Europe for academic reasons, and left me with a relative (Paul Gamertsfelder) and they took me to the Columbus OH camp meeting. There I saw happening exactly what we were trying to stamp out or keep from happening in Brazil.

    And what I was told repeatedly there was that what I saw was nothing compared to how "wild" things used to be, and my relatives were totally complicit. My point is just that in the early 1970's we changed as a denomination. Who we are today is very different than who we were.
    Thanks Greg Gates, Mike Schutz, Billy Cox - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Greg Gates's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Rector View Post
    Greg, would you mind fleshing this out for me? What does a church that is full of the presence of the Holy Spirit look like? I just think before we can have a meaningful conversation about the presence of the Spirit we should know what we are talking about.
    I don't have a good the answer to that good question. Something I would start with is, is there anything happening that could only be attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit? i.e. unlikely conversions, miraculous healings, unusual fervor and passionate worship, bold personal evangelism, widespread prayer and fasting, etc... The things Wesley, early holiness people "bragged" about, the things I long to see happen in my church, but don't.
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    Senior Member Doug Ward's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    I don't have a good the answer to that good question. Something I would start with is, is there anything happening that could only be attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit? i.e. unlikely conversions, miraculous healings, unusual fervor and passionate worship, bold personal evangelism, widespread prayer and fasting, etc... The things Wesley, early holiness people "bragged" about, the things I long to see happen in my church, but don't.
    Here lies the disconnect. Since when did "Miraculous hearings, unusual fervor, and passionate worship" become signs of the Holy Spirit? First of all, what marks these things. My church lives much longer and healthier than they did 40 years ago - is this miraculous? What is unusual fervor, and how does one quantify it? Does one who approaches the world from an intellectual perspective disqualify themselves from the Holy Spirit? I know a number of people who will never shout, wave, jump, bunny-hop, and yell amen, but their lives, service and habits bear every witness to God's work. And what is passionate worship? I get the feeling it becomes whatever a group states it is.

    This seems so disconnected to me from Scripture. I read Paul writing at length in 1 Cor 12 & 14 limiting and diminishing tongues and other ecstatic behavior. He goes to great lengths to place boundaries around behavior that was proving to be divisive. The ecstatic group claiming to be more spiritual, than the others - sound familiar? Finally Paul says 3 things remain - faith, hope and love - but the greatest of these is love. Sounds awfully familiar to Gal. 5 and that whole love, joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, patience and self-control stuff. These are what have always been the most lacking in God's church. Even in the days when everyone had "passionate fervor", we suffered from a lack of love. Sometimes the histrionics were a cover for a host of attitudes that were less then Christlike. I think I will remain here, with my decided lack of passion and fervor.

    I will merely spend a quiet day with my wife of 27 years, and at some point in the day we will see both of our kids, whom are following Christ wholeheartedly. We have a vibrant, barrier-free relationship with both. We enjoyed a great weekend with church family - a group that is free of discord, and welcoming to everyone. We laugh easily and love each other. Too bad there is nothing in that picture that is attributable to the Holy Spirit.
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Ward View Post
    Here lies the disconnect. Since when did "Miraculous hearings, unusual fervor, and passionate worship" become signs of the Holy Spirit? First of all, what marks these things. My church lives much longer and healthier than they did 40 years ago - is this miraculous? What is unusual fervor, and how does one quantify it? Does one who approaches the world from an intellectual perspective disqualify themselves from the Holy Spirit? I know a number of people who will never shout, wave, jump, bunny-hop, and yell amen, but their lives, service and habits bear every witness to God's work. And what is passionate worship? I get the feeling it becomes whatever a group states it is.

    This seems so disconnected to me from Scripture. I read Paul writing at length in 1 Cor 12 & 14 limiting and diminishing tongues and other ecstatic behavior. He goes to great lengths to place boundaries around behavior that was proving to be divisive. The ecstatic group claiming to be more spiritual, than the others - sound familiar? Finally Paul says 3 things remain - faith, hope and love - but the greatest of these is love. Sounds awfully familiar to Gal. 5 and that whole love, joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, patience and self-control stuff. These are what have always been the most lacking in God's church. Even in the days when everyone had "passionate fervor", we suffered from a lack of love. Sometimes the histrionics were a cover for a host of attitudes that were less then Christlike. I think I will remain here, with my decided lack of passion and fervor.

    I will merely spend a quiet day with my wife of 27 years, and at some point in the day we will see both of our kids, whom are following Christ wholeheartedly. We have a vibrant, barrier-free relationship with both. We enjoyed a great weekend with church family - a group that is free of discord, and welcoming to everyone. We laugh easily and love each other. Too bad there is nothing in that picture that is attributable to the Holy Spirit.
    I am as happy for you as I am for the thousands that are finding their spiritual needs met by the Holy Spirit through services like Greg posted about with Dan.

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Ward View Post
    This is the sentence that always troubles me, and I think is a far bigger problem than we usually think.
    I find it hard to be troubled when specifics of theological concerns are never spelled out in a clear and concise manner.

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    Senior Member Doug Ward's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by James Johnson View Post
    I find it hard to be troubled when specifics of theological concerns are never spelled out in a clear and concise manner.
    This is the divide, then. I find this tremendously troubling, and damaging in the long-term to the church. Very damaging.
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.

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    Senior Member Lucas Finch's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    I know nothing of Dan Bohi other than he is friends with an evangelist that we had a couple of months ago and he brings unity between elements of NazNet and Concerned Nazarenes (unity against him, that is). So I am definitely not going to criticize him or what he is doing. The talk of "signs of the Spirit" has got me thinking, though . . .

    With my teens I am currently going through my interpretation of the "A World Unbroken" theme that was introduced at NYC2011. If you are unfamiliar with this theme, it is a following of the story of God through seven episodes: Creation, Broken, Promise, Presence, Satisfied, Mission, and Restored. I have been on this theme for probably about eight months, and this Wednesday will be my last night. (Then I am turning over the teaching to my summer intern for the next 2 1/2 months, with me supervising, of course.)

    As I've prepared each lesson, I keep getting drawn back to love. No matter how we approach our understanding of God, I believe that ultimately we have to accept that He is love. When we were going through the several lessons on Presence, I asked my teens what the example of Jesus, who reveals God to us, makes known to us about God. As that question did not trigger what I was looking for, I asked them to give me examples of things that Jesus did, and after each one I asked them what those things taught us about God. They gave examples like feeding the 5000, healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, etc. On each of these, their conclusion was that Jesus shows us God's power. Certainly this is true, but I pushed them deeper. Why did God's power manifest itself as it did? What was its drive? Why did Jesus feed the 5000, heal the sick, etc.? I assume that the answer comes quicker to the NazNet crowd. He did it because of love. More than anything, Jesus reveals to us God's love. Even driving out the money changers and animal sellers from the temple was an act of love as He sought to defend those being exploited by them.

    Fast forward to the next week. The lesson is still on Presence, but this time it is on the Presence of God in our lives through the Holy Spirit. What does the Holy Spirit do for us? Sure, He convicts & cleanses us of sin, gives us guidance, empowers us to be witnesses, etc. But I believe that ultimately each and every one of these have their source in love as well. Ultimately, what the Holy Spirit does is empowers us for love. Scripture tells us that the fruit of the Spirit, that which the Spirit produces in the lives He empowers, is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Really, though, are not the final eight merely just aspects of a life driven by the first?

    Ultimately, the presence of the Holy Spirit manifested in people's lives is seen by their love for God and others. There is no better gauge for this. It can certainly manifest itself in things like miracles and healings, but it does not necessarily.

    I hope and pray that Mr. Bohi's ministry is fruitful. From the reports that I have heard, it certainly sounds like God is doing something great through him. I do agree with those who think it would be best if he were to put himself under the authority of the church, but God does not only use licensed and ordained ministers, so it isn't that big of a deal to me. Come on, fellow ministers, aren't we always encouraging our parishioners to be active participants in ministering and evangelizing? I know that I am. My gauge for anyone's effectiveness in ministry is not the "worship" experience or "miracles" that are manifested, though. Rather, I look to see if love is manifested. If it is, then I conclude that the Holy Spirit is active.
    If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.
    Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:2

    So when the gospel is diminished to a question of whether or not a person will “get into heaven,” that reduces the good news to a ticket, a way to get past the bouncer and into the club. The good news is better than that.
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    Senior Member Greg Gates's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Come on, fellow ministers, aren't we always encouraging our parishioners to be active participants in ministering and evangelizing? I know that I am. My gauge for anyone's effectiveness in ministry is not the "worship" experience or "miracles" that are manifested, though. Rather, I look to see if love is manifested. If it is, then I conclude that the Holy Spirit is active.
    It's not either/or but both/and.
    Thanks Gina Stevenson - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Lucas Finch's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    It's not either/or but both/and.
    Is it, necessarily? When teaching on the Presence of God in the Holy Spirit, I played this news clip for my teens:



    I have never experienced an Amish worship service, but I doubt that it is one that many evangelicals would come away from saying, "I really felt the Holy Spirit there." (I don't even know what that means, other than to refer to emotional warm-fuzzies that the person experienced, but I hear it all the time. I have myself experienced such emotional warm-fuzzies, but I experienced them watching The Avengers and The Hobbit in the theater the first time, too.) I have also never heard of major miracles taking place in the Amish community. (Though in fairness, I am a long way away from Pennsylvania, so maybe I've missed some reports.) However, when I heard this story of the love and forgiveness of the Amish people, despite the terrible tragedy they suffered, I had to conclude that the Holy Spirit was active in their lives.
    If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.
    Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:2

    So when the gospel is diminished to a question of whether or not a person will “get into heaven,” that reduces the good news to a ticket, a way to get past the bouncer and into the club. The good news is better than that.
    Rob Bell, Love Wins

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    Senior Member Susan Unger's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    I don't have a good the answer to that good question. Something I would start with is, is there anything happening that could only be attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit? i.e. unlikely conversions, miraculous healings, unusual fervor and passionate worship, bold personal evangelism, widespread prayer and fasting, etc... The things Wesley, early holiness people "bragged" about, the things I long to see happen in my church, but don't.
    I can appreciate what you are saying here.
    Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18

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    Host Fun & Prayer forums Gina Stevenson's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Greg, Lucas ... it can be an "either/or" or a "both/and" ... I'd suggest both are correct. Sometimes it might be an "either/or" while at other times it can definitely be a "both/and." Neither needs to exclude the other.
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    Senior Member Lucas Finch's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina Stevenson View Post
    Greg, Lucas ... it can be an "either/or" or a "both/and" ... I'd suggest both are correct. Sometimes it might be an "either/or" while at other times it can definitely be a "both/and." Neither needs to exclude the other.
    So you're saying that it's "either/or" and/or "both/and"?

    I have no intention of speaking against Mr. Bohi's work. As I said up front, I know very little about him. I only seek to emphasize that love is the key to seeing the Spirit at work. Sometimes love will be manifested in miracles, or sometimes it will be manifested in great forgiveness. But I believe that ultimately it all comes down to love.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul
    If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
    If I speak God’s Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, “Jump,” and it jumps, but I don’t love, I’m nothing.
    Paul, 1 Corinthians 13:2

    So when the gospel is diminished to a question of whether or not a person will “get into heaven,” that reduces the good news to a ticket, a way to get past the bouncer and into the club. The good news is better than that.
    Rob Bell, Love Wins
    Thanks Gina Stevenson, Nate Pruitt - "thanks" for this post
    Laughing Nate Pruitt - thanks for this funny post

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    Host Fun & Prayer forums Gina Stevenson's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Finch View Post
    So you're saying that it's "either/or" and/or "both/and"?

    I have no intention of speaking against Mr. Bohi's work. As I said up front, I know very little about him. I only seek to emphasize that love is the key to seeing the Spirit at work. Sometimes love will be manifested in miracles, or sometimes it will be manifested in great forgiveness. But I believe that ultimately it all comes down to love.
    Agreed ... love manifested in various ways, perhaps? Even in human relationships, there are quite a few ~~ someone suggested at least five "love languages" ~~ ways in which love is manifested.
    Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one. ~ Stella Adler
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    It takes a great deal of maturity to accept that trying to eliminate all risk eliminates life. ~ Susan Lapin ~
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    His anger lasts only a moment, but His favor lasts a lifetime! Weeping may last through the night, but joy comes with the morning. Psalm 30:5 (NLT)
    Thanks Lucas Finch - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Doug Ward's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Gates View Post
    Geez, take a chill pill!!

    Just because I didn't innumerate all your typical Nazarene points doesn't mean that I disagree or am oblivious to them. No need to make false assumptions and then attack your caricature of me as if you are so much more theologically insightful and filled with divine love.

    I answered the question by stating its context first. It was a starter response! Forgive me for listing a few things I don't see yet in my church but would like to. If you don't want those things in your church then you have nothing to worry about since you never will.
    I understand. I was just under the assumption that love, peace, self-control is the starter response, and more than mere "Nazarene points." Plus, I responded to your post, not to a caricature. C'mon now.
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    There is no doubt that the Wesleyan holiness movement and the Pentecostal movement are related. They are our theological children. I think in distancing ourselves from them, we maintained the purity of holiness, but lost a great deal of the power of holiness.
    I am not a Nazarene, but I once was. Whatever the denomination does or did in response to 'tongues' is an 'in-house' issue that is beyond my purview. However, before rushing to judgement of the way Nazarenes dealt with the issue in the past, it might be well to keep some things in mind.

    I have no doubt that God may very well bestow the gift of tongues on some. I would not presume to attempt to dictate how God chooses to work in the lives of individuals. Part of the 'god-ness' of God is that he bestows his gifts in ways that suit his purposes. But in doing so, I don't think he views the non-recipients of such gifts as being less favored.

    It's easy to forget (or never know in the first place) the context of what has previously taken place. The tongues movement has matured (some of its more fervent adherents would probably characterize it as having lost some of its previous 'annointing').

    It has become, in most instances, a 'kinder, gentler' thing. Most of its adherents would probably now acknowledge that it is not necessarily the sole evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

    This maturity and graciousness was NOT one of its hallmarks in the past. Many, if not most, of its adherents were quite vocal in their opinion that if you didn't have the charismatic annointing, you were not Spirit-filled.

    That kind of legalistic arrogance was encountered by Nazarenes of my parents' generation - they pastored several churches where that issue had to be confronted if the peace of the body was to be maintained. They had to deal with the spiritual victims on the tongues movement - the people who were made to feel that they were somehow less favored because they didn't have the 'gift'.

    I believe God bestows his gifts in ways that align with his purposes. I DON'T believe he bestows his gifts to enable the recipients to become spiritual bullies. And that bullying, in the name of the Holy Spirit, was a very real problem in a lot of churhes.

  32. #32
    Senior Member Steve Malcolm's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    I only saw Dan Bohi once, at M11. While he made some theological statements that I felt were a bit off, my big problem was his open disregard for the presenters that were shceduled after him. This might not be an intentionally dismissive attitude to his co-workers in Christ, but it showed a troubling lack of humility. I'm glad that his influence at your church has been positive. Maybe he has grown or maybe I saw him on a bad day, but those of us who are wary of him are not just on a witch hunt for Pentecostals.

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    Senior Member Nate Pruitt's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Malcolm View Post
    I only saw Dan Bohi once, at M11. While he made some theological statements that I felt were a bit off, my big problem was his open disregard for the presenters that were shceduled after him. This might not be an intentionally dismissive attitude to his co-workers in Christ, but it showed a troubling lack of humility. I'm glad that his influence at your church has been positive. Maybe he has grown or maybe I saw him on a bad day, but those of us who are wary of him are not just on a witch hunt for Pentecostals.
    He just doesn't believe the Spirit can be forced into a schedule (most of his services run "long"), but it was very unfortunate for those with workshops right after. I felt for a few friends who were presenting then.
    Seeking to participate in the recreation of that which was called "good" and is being renewed. natepruitt.com My author page on Amazon.
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    Senior Member Steve Malcolm's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Pruitt View Post
    He just doesn't believe the Spirit can be forced into a schedule (most of his services run "long"), but it was very unfortunate for those with workshops right after. I felt for a few friends who were presenting then.
    I get that. But, those who don't believe God can be kept on a schedule might consider two things. 1) God can speak through other people too, so closing ones mouth is not limiting God. 2) When we break into time set aside for others on purpose (he acknowledged doing it and said his thing was more important than theirs) I think we violate the command to love one another.

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    Senior Member Nate Pruitt's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Malcolm View Post
    I get that. But, those who don't believe God can be kept on a schedule might consider two things. 1) God can speak through other people too, so closing ones mouth is not limiting God. 2) When we break into time set aside for others on purpose (he acknowledged doing it and said his thing was more important than theirs) I think we violate the command to love one another.
    Incidentally, his workshops were unique and wonderful, and (mostly) ran on time.
    Seeking to participate in the recreation of that which was called "good" and is being renewed. natepruitt.com My author page on Amazon.
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    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Understand that I am no apologist for tongues or most other "signs and wonders" displays. I do not practice speaking in tongues, nor do I seek it as a gift. I think the sociological aspects of these phenomena have been way underplayed by their proponents. i have seen the devastation to churches, families, and individual relationships with God wrought by the worst that Pentecostalism has to offer. I've been deceived, confused, and victimized myself.

    However, I believe the response of the Church of the Nazarene, first set forth by Bresee in the article linked previously, may in retrospect have been misguided, as it was based on fear and avoidance rather than intelligent dialogue and understanding. We put tongues in the category of alcohol - complete prohibition, end of discussion. Yet, both are present in the Bible! When you set yourself up as prohibiting that which scripture allows, then remove grace, mercy, and humility from the discussion, you are going to lose. You're going to lose good people, and eventually you're going to lose the argument. By routing out and summarily showing tongues speakers the door, we have succeeded in keeping the church doctrinally pure, but at what price?

    I don't propose we begin allowing tongues to be "practiced" in our public worship gatherings. But as far as I'm concerned, the way somebody talks to God in their prayer closet is really not mine to judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kennedy View Post
    I am not a Nazarene, but I once was. Whatever the denomination does or did in response to 'tongues' is an 'in-house' issue that is beyond my purview. However, before rushing to judgement of the way Nazarenes dealt with the issue in the past, it might be well to keep some things in mind.

    I have no doubt that God may very well bestow the gift of tongues on some. I would not presume to attempt to dictate how God chooses to work in the lives of individuals. Part of the 'god-ness' of God is that he bestows his gifts in ways that suit his purposes. But in doing so, I don't think he views the non-recipients of such gifts as being less favored.

    It's easy to forget (or never know in the first place) the context of what has previously taken place. The tongues movement has matured (some of its more fervent adherents would probably characterize it as having lost some of its previous 'annointing').

    It has become, in most instances, a 'kinder, gentler' thing. Most of its adherents would probably now acknowledge that it is not necessarily the sole evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

    This maturity and graciousness was NOT one of its hallmarks in the past. Many, if not most, of its adherents were quite vocal in their opinion that if you didn't have the charismatic annointing, you were not Spirit-filled.

    That kind of legalistic arrogance was encountered by Nazarenes of my parents' generation - they pastored several churches where that issue had to be confronted if the peace of the body was to be maintained. They had to deal with the spiritual victims on the tongues movement - the people who were made to feel that they were somehow less favored because they didn't have the 'gift'.

    I believe God bestows his gifts in ways that align with his purposes. I DON'T believe he bestows his gifts to enable the recipients to become spiritual bullies. And that bullying, in the name of the Holy Spirit, was a very real problem in a lot of churhes.

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    Host Gen. Disc. Forum David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Pruitt View Post
    He just doesn't believe the Spirit can be forced into a schedule (most of his services run "long"), but it was very unfortunate for those with workshops right after. I felt for a few friends who were presenting then.
    Especially when they paid for their own travel expenses, hotel, and meals in order to attend and present that one workshop.
    Thanks Nate Pruitt, Steve Malcolm, Lucas Finch, Greg Gates - "thanks" for this post

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    Host Fun & Prayer forums Gina Stevenson's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Understand that I am no apologist for tongues or most other "signs and wonders" displays. I do not practice speaking in tongues, nor do I seek it as a gift .........................

    I don't propose we begin allowing tongues to be "practiced" in our public worship gatherings. But as far as I'm concerned, the way somebody talks to God in their prayer closet is really not mine to judge.
    Good post, David. And, while I "thanked" you, I'll just make note that the first paragraph of yours here is also my experience. Understood the C&MA stance to be a good one: "Seek not, but forbid not."
    Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one. ~ Stella Adler
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    It takes a great deal of maturity to accept that trying to eliminate all risk eliminates life. ~ Susan Lapin ~
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    His anger lasts only a moment, but His favor lasts a lifetime! Weeping may last through the night, but joy comes with the morning. Psalm 30:5 (NLT)
    Thanks David Pettigrew - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Cam Pence's Avatar

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Especially when they paid for their own travel expenses, hotel, and meals in order to attend and present that one workshop.
    That's the beauty of the Holy Spirit card....use it all you want however you want and when someone objects, you will have likely convinced several people to simply see this as stifling of said spirit
    "Love without holiness disintegrates into sentimentality. Personal integrity is lost. But holiness without love is not holiness at all. In spite of its label, it displays harshness, judgmentalism, a critical spirit, and all its capacity for discrimination end in nit-picking and divisiveness."-Mildred Bangs Wynkoop

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    Re: Dan Bohi revival

    I have seen Mr. Bohi twice, both times at campmeeting here in South Central Ohio. I wish I'd taken paper and pen to take notes. All I can say is that I take issue with how he approaches addictions and depression. My remembrance of him was that it is sin, and you just need to confess it. Forget programs like Celebrate Recovery. But then again, evangelists swoop into town and don't really have to deal with the people on a long term basis.
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