The shield of faith - Have we missed the point?

[Cynthia Prentice]

Could we have missed the point regarding the Ephesians chapter 6, "Shield of Faith"? The particular shield mentioned was famous for its use in forming a testudo...a Roman battle formation that resembled a tortoise shell. I've always pictured the Eph. 6 shield as one shield...in isolation...but could there be a picture of a community of shields...a community of faith shields that when placed together help us to fulfill that which Jesus called us to do?

edited to add: I'm not speaking about "battle" as much as the image of our faith shields joined together to help us stand firm against everything that is hurled at us. * see Jeremey's comment and my response - http://www.naznet.com/community/showthread.php?1778-The-shield-of-faith-Have-we-missed-the-point&p=25182&viewfull=1#post25182

Video Clip: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x52...nai_shortfilms (Legionaries preparing for battle...helping each other put on their armor...and then forming the testudo formation).

[Billy Cox]

Could we have missed the point regarding the Ephesians chapter 6, "Shield of Faith"? The particular shield mentioned was famous for its use in forming a testudo...a Roman battle formation that resembled a tortoise shell. I've always pictured the Eph. 6 shield as one shield...in isolation...but could there be a picture of a community of shields...a community of faith shields that when placed together help us to fulfill that which Jesus called us to do?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x52...nai_shortfilms (Legionaries preparing for battle...helping each other put on their armor...and then forming the testudo formation).

So you're suggesting that all the pictures of a shield similar to what Lancelot might have used might be misleading??

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I'd not heard of that about the shield. I think that there's a bigger point that we miss (that perhaps your point on the shield fully supports):

The passage is all about defense. More often than not, I hear the passage spoken of as a call to take up a battle. I don't read that at all. I see it as a call to withstand within the battle. Every tool that Paul mentions is used defensively. Jesus himself shows us how the word (that is the sword) is used to deflect what Paul calls "the wiles of the devil" (verse 11) in the desert as he responds to each temptation of the devil with scripture. I don't think that I need to explain how the rest act as defense (though it is notable to point out that the shoes carry a gospel of "peace").

Anyway, it's not a call to battle, but an encouragement to stand firm amongst all the evil and crap that's thrown at us, that we might not fight, but that we would stand firm as Christ did.

Three times, Paul makes this clear:
"Put on the armor...so that you may be able to stand against..." (verse 11)
"...so that you may be able to withstand on that evil day..." (verse 13)
"Stand therefore..." (verse 14)

[Billie Goodson]

I recall reading somewhere that in 1 Cor 3:16, the you that is there (you are the temple) is more like a "you all, together are the temple". This seems to dovetail in with your thoughts Cynthia -- it is not a singular but a collective (or communal sense). This has a ring of Wesley's "social holiness" in it as well. I don't recall where I read the part about the 1 Cor 3:16 -- perhaps Oord/Lodahl's "Relational Holiness" or something from CLT. Also brings in the "where two or more or gathered" in another sense. Interesting thoughts.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I recall reading somewhere that in 1 Cor 3:16, the you that is there (you are the temple) is more like a "you all, together are the temple". This seems to dovetail in with your thoughts Cynthia -- it is not a singular but a collective (or communal sense). This has a ring of Wesley's "social holiness" in it as well. I don't recall where I read the part about the 1 Cor 3:16 -- perhaps Oord/Lodahl's "Relational Holiness" or something from CLT. Also brings in the "where two or more or gathered" in another sense. Interesting thoughts.

The majority of the epistles are written with a corporate group of people in mind. Only our Western/English reading of them cause us to individualize them. The Greek scholars out there can speak to this better than I.

[Billie Goodson]

The majority of the epistles are written with a corporate group of people in mind. Only our Western/English reading of them cause us to individualize them. The Greek scholars out there can speak to this better than I.

That's an interesting statement Jeremy. I would love to get more on that perspective because I have been working on a response to a friend on Romans 9 for some time that would be helped tremendously by that perspective. I guess I didn't realize it was so widespread, but then your statement clarifies the why of that for me. Thanks.

[Cynthia Prentice]

I'd not heard of that about the shield. I think that there's a bigger point that we miss (that perhaps your point on the shield fully supports):


Anyway, it's not a call to battle, but an encouragement to stand firm amongst all the evil and crap that's thrown at us, that we might not fight, but that we would stand firm as Christ did.

Three times, Paul makes this clear:
"Put on the armor...so that you may be able to stand against..." (verse 11)
"...so that you may be able to withstand on that evil day..." (verse 13)
"Stand therefore..." (verse 14)

Yes Jeremy...you are right on target with what I am saying. Although technically the testudo is a battle formation, its purpose was to defend the soldiers (as they were advancing on a city during a seige) from the missles that were hurled at them from the city walls.

Although the Roman's used this formation to allow soldiers to slowly...with great unity and patience...advance upon a city to bring destruction, I like to think of it in the context of not destroying...but rebuilding. The passage in Isaiah 58 comes to mind...

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?

7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness [a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
"If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,

10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday.

11 The LORD will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.

12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

Also the words of Jesus quoted from Isaiah 61...

18"(S)THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,

I have gained a new appreciation for the shield and the image of our shields interlocking to form a testudo...the image of those I am in community with...withstanding that which is hurled at us...strengthening one another...as we follow the call of Jesus to bring restoration.

[Cynthia Prentice]

I recall reading somewhere that in 1 Cor 3:16, the you that is there (you are the temple) is more like a "you all, together are the temple". This seems to dovetail in with your thoughts Cynthia -- it is not a singular but a collective (or communal sense). This has a ring of Wesley's "social holiness" in it as well. I don't recall where I read the part about the 1 Cor 3:16 -- perhaps Oord/Lodahl's "Relational Holiness" or something from CLT. Also brings in the "where two or more or gathered" in another sense. Interesting thoughts.

Hi Billie,

I recall something along the same line although I think it was RVL that I heard say, "You (plural) are the (singular) temple." Taking this and placing with all that Jesus said regarding unity is a powerful picture. I'm on a loaner computer right now so I can't access my PC Bible program to check the Greek. If you find a reference let me know.

Thanks,

Cynthia

[David Gerber]

There is a formation like you describe in the movie "300." that concept is certainly worth considering. Thanks!

[Cynthia Prentice]

Thanks for the picture David...I added a few to my earlier post.

[Jon Twitchell]

I'd not heard of that about the shield. I think that there's a bigger point that we miss (that perhaps your point on the shield fully supports):

The passage is all about defense. More often than not, I hear the passage spoken of as a call to take up a battle. I don't read that at all. I see it as a call to withstand within the battle. Every tool that Paul mentions is used defensively. Jesus himself shows us how the word (that is the sword) is used to deflect what Paul calls "the wiles of the devil" (verse 11) in the desert as he responds to each temptation of the devil with scripture. I don't think that I need to explain how the rest act as defense (though it is notable to point out that the shoes carry a gospel of "peace").

Anyway, it's not a call to battle, but an encouragement to stand firm amongst all the evil and crap that's thrown at us, that we might not fight, but that we would stand firm as Christ did.

Three times, Paul makes this clear:
"Put on the armor...so that you may be able to stand against..." (verse 11)
"...so that you may be able to withstand on that evil day..." (verse 13)
"Stand therefore..." (verse 14)

Jeremy... great insight. Couple that with what Jesus said to Peter... "on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

Here, Jesus talks about gates (which are typically a defensive structure), but the image of "overcome" or "prevail" has a more offensive tone.

[Shea Zellweger]

There is a formation like you describe in the movie "300." that concept is certainly worth considering. Thanks!

Ah, but then we'd have to debate whether people of little faith are like the one who could not hold is shield well enough to protect his fellow soldiers...

Jeremy... great insight. Couple that with what Jesus said to Peter... "on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

Here, Jesus talks about gates (which are typically a defensive structure), but the image of "overcome" or "prevail" has a more offensive tone.

I've always found it fascinating when people talk about "storming the gates" of Hades. As far as battle terms go, I think there are probably better options, since storming the gates implies trying to invade the city and posess it for yourself... something about Christians trying to possess Hell just seems a little counterintuitive.

Cynthia, Jeremy, I think you guys have helped me to be able to express something that I've always wanted to know about the Armor of God passage. Specifically, I've felt for some time that the armor of God was not best understood as a call to assault, but rather a call to protection as we travel through the "foreign land" of the World (not our home, in it but not of it, etc.). Over the centuries, it seems to me that we've become too focused on "attacking" the enemy and "possessing the land," and it's actually harmed our mission. The call to attack seems as though it encourages us to place our treasure and our home squarely on the foundations of the World, while the call to be ready to defend seems more conducive to allowing us to turn our attention from the powers of darkness to the people who have been living in darkness, and showing them that there is a light available... wow, wonder how many more biblical metaphors I can toss in there?

[Steven Burton]

Thank you Cynthia I have wonder about that idea for the past few year in light of my learning about roman warfare. On a side note have found evidence for it yet (haven't done much research on it either) a friend of mine told that the way the roman shield was made gave it a layer of padding in the front so that it would extinguish flaming arrows.