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Thread: Swerved Into The Truth

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    Senior Member Doug Ward's Avatar

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    Swerved Into The Truth

    I ask for a little latitude here. In another thread there was a post that questioned whether fat people can be sanctified, and it was rightly deleted, but there is something here worth examining. Give me a minute to explain.

    I am 5'10" and weigh 190 pounds. I could lose 15 pounds. I should lose 15 pounds. My brother is 5'8" and weighs 140 dripping wet in a 3 piece suit. We can go out to eat and my brother can eat a T-bone and not gain a pound. I eat a salad and gain 2. Here is the deal - I am adopted, and he isn't. We do not share DNA. He looks just like my dad, and I look like neither parent. My brother will never gain a pound, and I have to be careful. Very careful. Is it fair - no. Is it the reality - yes. Can both of us live a holy life - yes.

    Now that creates some issues. In the past 5 years I have ridden my bike 1000 miles each year, I have run half-marathons, and my wife and I walk 3 miles at least 4 days a week. I also golf in the summer and walk 18 holes carrying my own clubs. I exercise more than most people, and if I had different DNA I would be thinner. Yet this is the DNA I live with.

    Here is what I noticed. When it comes to weight so many of us want to quickly rise up in our own defense and proclaim how being heavy is not our fault. When it comes to homosexuality, we are much more quiet. It seems there is a direct parallel here. I do not share the DNA of my brother, and I can put on the pounds. Yet this does not excuse it, it just means I have a challenge that needs to be met with honesty, discipline and accountability. I must exercise more. I have to be more careful, and deny myself in ways others do not. I think allowing weight to impact my health is a spiritual issue, and so I am responsible for my behavior here. I cannot control my tendency to gain weight, but I can control how I act in response.

    The EXACT same standard exists in every other area as well, whether the area is gossiping, being overly critical or homosexuality. I just hope we see the dichotomy that tends to exist among us. We so quickly excuse our own inherent tendencies, then we do not allow for the tendency of another. My call to the church is consistency. Someone talked about this once, and said something about a speck and a beam, but you are probably familiar with that story.
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Good post. I have a child who is adopted. He has inherited apparently the bi polar traits he struggles with. He was starved and abused and it did brain damage. He was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and has fragile x disorder also.

    He struggles with behavior issues that many of us will never experience. He has temptations I will probably never have. He has limited ability outside the Holy Spirit to battle this. And YET there are times he sees it all as a spiritual battle, leans on the Lord, and while far from perfect at least commits no willful sin or overt felonies. But when he walks in the flesh......better never to cross his path. Literally.
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    Senior Member Doug Ward's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Smith View Post
    Good post. I have a child who is adopted. He has inherited apparently the bi polar traits he struggles with. He was starved and abused and it did brain damage. He was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and has fragile x disorder also.

    He struggles with behavior issues that many of us will never experience. He has temptations I will probably never have. He has limited ability outside the Holy Spirit to battle this. And YET there are times he sees it all as a spiritual battle, leans on the Lord, and while far from perfect at least commits no willful sin or overt felonies. But when he walks in the flesh......better never to cross his path. Literally.
    Bless you for adopting this child, and for walking through life with him. In the middle of the rough days, remember that "Grace.... super-abounds."
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
    Thanks Jim Chabot, Billy Cox, Gina Stevenson - "thanks" for this post

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Yes Doug, genes have a lot to do with our weight. Some of us cannot handle carbohydrates without easily gaining weight and must struggle to avoid piling it on. I am like this myself, and due to environmental assault namely pesticide and mercury poisoning and my genetic disability to detox well, my thyroid has been damaged by autoimmunity and carbos will quickly put weight on me so l have had to accept that l cannot eat like other people.

    The Lord has shown me that a low carbohydrate high good fat diet, with grass fed meat and plenty of fish is what l need. There are so many diets out there and a lot of misinformation that it is a maze.

    Regular dieting, or just trying to eat less and worse, using artificial sweeteners, is a bad idea. We are generally lacking good honest food, as we are supposed to eat, straight from the field.

    I am tempted to feel sorry for myself when eating socially but it is fine at home where l only keep things that l can eat.
    Last edited by Kevin Rector; February 14th, 2017 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Fixed name
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    Senior Member Emiko Cothran's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    I have been disheartened by this study:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/h...loss.html?_r=0

    Basically if you have been heavy all your life (as I have been since kindergarten), losing weight and keeping it off will be a constant life long battle. One guy from the study burned 800 calories fewer then would be expected for a man his size, to keep the weight off he had to exercise hard 3 hours a day, which he can nog do while maintaining a full time job.

    It's true that you CAN do it with a lot of will power and hard work. You may need to live on 1200 calories a day for life while battling incessant hunger and running an hour each day, but it is possible. Tho I wonder if constant pain and struggle is what God wants for us, the homosexual OR the obese person. What happens when hunger pain for the obese person living on 1200 calories a day, or crushing loneliness for the celebrate homosexual is more painful then the person can bear?

    You're right in that I see a lot of similarities between the two. How can I judge a homosexual?

    I also wonder where weight loss surgery falls in this whole debate. What about those who it would help but can not afford it?
    Thanks Diane Likens, Aaron Stapleton - "thanks" for this post

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Yes the article shows that normal weight loss programs often do not result in long term success in keeping the weight off if you do not drastically change the diet to one which allows the body to heal from the metabolic condition it suffers especially for those who do not have the discipline required by not having the Holy Spirit within.

    It has to be about healing and not just weight loss and these weight loss diets are usually not healthy and are even damaging when they include artificial sweeteners which they usually do.

    Going onto a low carbohydrate high fat or even ketogenic diet of preferably organic food with non conventional meat which has higher levels of omega 6 and for a lot of folk, cutting out grains, results in healing and not just weight loss.

    It is a hormone called leptin that governs how much fat we put on and it is possible to reset the production of it and stay slim. On the diet l am discussing, the amount of good fats like coconut oil and non conventionally produced grass fed animal fats satisfy the appetite. It is carbohydrate that causes the problem plus processed oils from seeds.
    Last edited by Brenda Redshaw; February 11th, 2017 at 02:35 AM. Reason: adds for clarity

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    Senior Member Jim Chabot's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Emiko Cothran View Post
    I have been disheartened by this study:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/h...loss.html?_r=0

    Basically if you have been heavy all your life (as I have been since kindergarten), losing weight and keeping it off will be a constant life long battle. One guy from the study burned 800 calories fewer then would be expected for a man his size, to keep the weight off he had to exercise hard 3 hours a day, which he can nog do while maintaining a full time job.

    It's true that you CAN do it with a lot of will power and hard work. You may need to live on 1200 calories a day for life while battling incessant hunger and running an hour each day, but it is possible. Tho I wonder if constant pain and struggle is what God wants for us, the homosexual OR the obese person. What happens when hunger pain for the obese person living on 1200 calories a day, or crushing loneliness for the celebrate homosexual is more painful then the person can bear?

    You're right in that I see a lot of similarities between the two. How can I judge a homosexual?

    I also wonder where weight loss surgery falls in this whole debate. What about those who it would help but can not afford it?
    Here's the thing Emiko, and I've said this many times before, so I'm going to try and say it differently. You are talking apples and anacondas here. So here is a challenge. Show me where obesity is a sin. I'm saying loud and clear that obesity is not a sin, it is not a sin to be obese, and further that it is dead wrong to say so. I'll go one step beyond and say that it is cruel and therefore sinful to say that an obese person is somehow sinning based upon their weight.

    There is no sin whatsoever in being fat and happy. The sin is in the person who feels a need to take away the fat person's happiness.

    Now if the fat person desires to lose weight, then by all means go for it. It's no different than someone wanting a better car, or a nicer suit or dress.
    -Jim

    To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.

    Garrison Keillor

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    The health risks of obesity and being overweight are too well known to have to repeat them, but for those who do not know:

    https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/hea...pics/obe/risks

    Now then, is it sinful or not for the believer to be putting a strain on health services when the results of their incontinence catches up? Is it sinful or not for a believer to care so little about their family that they are willing to have their lives cut short due to the hugely increased rate of sickness in obese people? Is it sinful or not to be presenting to the world, such a patent lack of self control while at the same time say that they are controlled by the Holy Spirit and can do all things through Christ who strengthens them? And what about their appearance to those in the world who are starving? Will it make them stumble through anger? What about the extra materials they require for seating etc? Is this good stewardship of the worlds resources?

    The obeses person may have trouble losing the weight or keeping it off because they are following conventional guidelines, but that is no excuse because the Holy Spirit will guide them to a more effective plan if they are listening to Him.

    As for the fat happy person, they are living in denial, understandable with a non believer but for those who are receptive to the Holy Spirit, the facts are against them.

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    Senior Member Jim Chabot's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    The health risks of obesity and being overweight are too well known to have to repeat them, but for those who do not know:

    https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/hea...pics/obe/risks

    Now then, is it sinful or not for the believer to be putting a strain on health services when the results of their incontinence catches up? Is it sinful or not for a believer to care so little about their family that they are willing to have their lives cut short due to the hugely increased rate of sickness in obese people? Is it sinful or not to be presenting to the world, such a patent lack of self control while at the same time say that they are controlled by the Holy Spirit and can do all things through Christ who strengthens them? And what about their appearance to those in the world who are starving? Will it make them stumble through anger? What about the extra materials they require for seating etc? Is this good stewardship of the worlds resources?

    The obeses person may have trouble losing the weight or keeping it off because they are following conventional guidelines, but that is no excuse because the Holy Spirit will guide them to a more effective plan if they are listening to Him.

    As for the fat happy person, they are living in denial, understandable with a non believer but for those who are receptive to the Holy Spirit, the facts are against them.
    I'm going to say that God decides what is and isn't sin. Using your reasoning It appears that sin must be everything that you don't like. I asked a serious question, if your going to accuse someone of sin you need to be sure.

    Your reasoning leaves more holes than a sieve.
    -Jim

    To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.

    Garrison Keillor
    Thanks Martha Crafton - "thanks" for this post

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    The Bible does say gluttony is a sin, not obesity. So if a person is obese due to gluttony, and many people if honest must admit this is true, it is a consequence of the sin of gluttony. But some people do have the inherited tendency to store calories better than most people. In those cases obesity may not be a sin.

    We live in a society where only one body type is accepted as healthy, often for good reasons and sometimes for bad.

    Regardless, I learned when I had to bring my blood sugar down that lots of protein (and it can be "cheap meat" pressured to tenderness if money is a problem, or eggs, etc. Any non carb protein) and an adequate amount of the good fats (olive oil, nuts, seeds, etc) with minimal carbs (but enough for production of adequate serotonin) means no hunger, no longing for sweets, feeling good, losing to a healthy weight, and no privation. I do exercise for an hour a day--two twenty minute walks after breakfast and lunch and a twenty minute exercise bike ride after dinner.

    I learned my lifetime of excuses--and that is all they were--that I hated exercise or it was too hard on top of work or I didn't have time were lies I told myself. And I learned my excuses for not eating right such as it would be too expensive or I would be hungry all the time or I couldn't have delicious foods or I didn't have time to cook that way were more lies.

    It works. Its easy. It is not expensive. It is fun. And it feels good.

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    Senior Member Emiko Cothran's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Brenda,

    What would you say to someone who can not afford your diet? Carbs are cheap. Potatoes, whole wheat pasta, Rice and beans, beans and lentils. And the only way they can eat any meat is cheap, commercially raised (grain fed) meat.

    Could someone do your diet for 20 to 40 dollars a week? And if not, would you say is it sinful to eat the best they can afford?

    Would you say it is "sinful" to be whatever weight they were if they eat as healthy as they can afford, avoid hunger but never stuff themselves, and be whatever weight they end up being?
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Emiko

    I think a lot of people who say they cannot afford the foods l am talking about is, because they have other priorities. Maybe they could afford it if they gave up their smart phones and use the old ones instead. Not many put their health as high priority until they lose it.

    But if they genuinely have a low income, and wish to eat according to God's laws for the human body, then why not trust that God will provide? There are ways to economise, fir example eating offal like liver a few times a week, making bone broth at home from butchers bones, buying from a farm selling a vegetable box scheme.

    It actually can be done much cheaper than imagined. Giving up the fake foods in the stores saves a lot.

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    The carbs you mentioned are not the sort of carbs that destroy people's health by piling the weight on. Vegetarians who eat whole natural foods do not end up obese as a rule.

    We are discussing people who get to obese because of eating a trash diet.

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    Senior Member Emiko Cothran's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Brenda,

    Now I am confused. Are you talking about ALL overweight people? Or just the ones over weight because they are eating Twinkies and McDonalds?

    Previously I thought you meant ALL obese people.
    But now it sounds like you only mean it only sinful when they are obese due to excess junk-food and empty calories and refusing to put any effort into it etc.

    For example, would you say someone who was 350 lbs and lost 100 lbs but now, due to damaged mabolism, will always be 250 even when eating a diet of fruits and veggies and whole grains and lean meats (maybe a small treat once a week or so, but waaaaaay more healthy and diet conscience then the average (even slender) American)
    Is in the same or a different category as those who weigh 250 becuse they live on Cheetos and Twinkies and fast-food?

    Also,
    Would you say the 250 lb person who lives on whole food and is very strict about restricting sweets and highly processed food is more or less rightous then the trim 140lb person who lives on processed junk food, fast food, and diet soda?
    Thanks Diane Likens - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Emiko Cothran's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    As for cutting back to spend more on food:

    My dad (for example) has no cable, no internet, his phone was a free hand me down from my brother, he has a plan of 40 dollars a month.
    He has some bills (like tickets and things that are his fault) and other bills, like medical and such that are just the way it is.
    He lives in a small 1 bedroom and shopped and shopped for months to find the cheapest place that would let him in with his poor credit and low income.

    He goes out to movies once a year or so, flies to California to see family (100 dollars round trip) once a year, he drives a beat up old car with 250k.... usually if he does weekend stuff it is free (such as drive to the beach, my car, and bring a sack lunch)

    Where would you suggest he make cuts?
    Thanks Jim Chabot, Diane Likens - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Jim Chabot's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Smith View Post
    The Bible does say gluttony is a sin, not obesity. So if a person is obese due to gluttony, and many people if honest must admit this is true, it is a consequence of the sin of gluttony. But some people do have the inherited tendency to store calories better than most people. In those cases obesity may not be a sin.

    We live in a society where only one body type is accepted as healthy, often for good reasons and sometimes for bad.

    Regardless, I learned when I had to bring my blood sugar down that lots of protein (and it can be "cheap meat" pressured to tenderness if money is a problem, or eggs, etc. Any non carb protein) and an adequate amount of the good fats (olive oil, nuts, seeds, etc) with minimal carbs (but enough for production of adequate serotonin) means no hunger, no longing for sweets, feeling good, losing to a healthy weight, and no privation. I do exercise for an hour a day--two twenty minute walks after breakfast and lunch and a twenty minute exercise bike ride after dinner.

    I learned my lifetime of excuses--and that is all they were--that I hated exercise or it was too hard on top of work or I didn't have time were lies I told myself. And I learned my excuses for not eating right such as it would be too expensive or I would be hungry all the time or I couldn't have delicious foods or I didn't have time to cook that way were more lies.

    It works. Its easy. It is not expensive. It is fun. And it feels good.
    Amen Sarah! Gluttony is sinful, even then it may not lead to obesity. Gluttony is greed. Gluttony is exhibited in the person who takes two helpings at an event where there is only enough for one helping each. Gluttony is exhibited in the person who takes someone else's food. Gluttony can be someone who thinks of nothing else other than food, it's an unhealthy attitude whereby ones thoughts are continually on food.

    Calling an obese person a sinner because gluttony is suspected is bigotry.

    But yeah, it does feel better to be thin, and it is more healthy. Encouraging folks toward this is a good thing, criticizing them is a bad thing.
    -Jim

    To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.

    Garrison Keillor
    Thanks Emiko Cothran - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Emiko Cothran's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    What would you say if in order to remain trim someone must constantly obsess over food?

    To those who are always hungry, maintaining a 1400 calorie life long diet, weighing and measuring every bite, constantly looking forward to the next meal because they are always hungry, they calculate how many minutes of cardio must be added for a slice of avacado in their salad... they cut themselves off at a 150 calorie breakfast and spend all morning obsessing over how hungry they are and trying despretly not to think about food, not to feel the empty knowing ache... they can't concentrate on work because they are hungry... but they force this every day...
    when a pot luck is comming they must plan ahead, bring their own food because they know they can't eat what will be served, and then while there they spend a lot of time and energy NOT eating.

    Is this kind of food obsession to remain a healthy weight a good obsession or a bad obsession?
    Thanks Diane Likens - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Mike Schutz's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    As Doug said...

    Golly gee, we have a bent toward legalism when it is not about us. We so want to be able to look across the aisle and be able to judge if someone is a bad person based on our standard - and it is especially cool if we can couch it in terms that make it sound like it is God's standard too.

    And then I read Matthew 5:20 and wonder just how far my judgmental legalism is going to get me - whether I apply it to myself, or just to others. Jesus seems to be arguing it is not about the rules, but our attitude. If I am so passionate in proclaiming the absolute necessity of folks following my personal interpretation of the rules, then I better be creating an environment where that can happen. I better be helping them. And shaming is not helping.

    So, when our church's food ministry spends time trying to help our very poor neighbors have access to healthier foods direct from the farm, I also need to understand that they have so many more hoops to jump through in obtaining those healthy veggies and not filling their plates with inexpensive carbs. And maybe I better think about the economic inequality that makes it easier for me to shop the outer aisles of the supermarket, while their scarce food dollar goes a lot further for their family by shopping the inside aisles.

    "Eat healthier, or you are a bad person" sure sounds like a case study in privilege when you work with the folks I do.
    "Fully embracing the Gospel, fully engaging the world"

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    Senior Member Diane Likens's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    Emiko

    I think a lot of people who say they cannot afford the foods l am talking about is, because they have other priorities. Maybe they could afford it if they gave up their smart phones and use the old ones instead. Not many put their health as high priority until they lose it.

    But if they genuinely have a low income, and wish to eat according to God's laws for the human body, then why not trust that God will provide? There are ways to economise, fir example eating offal like liver a few times a week, making bone broth at home from butchers bones, buying from a farm selling a vegetable box scheme.

    It actually can be done much cheaper than imagined. Giving up the fake foods in the stores saves a lot.
    Inner city low income people with no transportation rarely have access to farms and butchers. You realize that, right?
    Wherever I am, God is, and all is well.

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    Senior Member Lucas Finch's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane Likens View Post
    Inner city low income people with no transportation rarely have access to farms and butchers. You realize that, right?
    So you're saying they can't be sanctified?
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    I am not being judgemental towards poor unsaved people. I cannot as I was one of them and I have family members who are in this class. Many are bound up in bondages and addictions (to food also not just alcohol and drugs) which are taking their lives from them. If I took them a bag of fresh organic greens they would throw them back at me but if I took them a box of donuts they would kiss my feet.

    My heart bleeds for them and I long for them to find Christ, who delivers us from bandages, and rescues us from the pit. Their problems are not lack of money, but lack of salvation.

    Before I found Christ, I was in bondage to addiction to cigarettes and cheap low nutrient fake foods and did not reaslise that my body was important and that I should nurture it to enable me to live as long as possible so that God could use me to reach the lost for as long as possible despite having my health ruined as a baby with mercury poisoning that has meant that I have had to spend a life being unable to work. His teaching has enabled me to reach the age of 67 without being on any medications at all despite having a pile of conditions that have been healed through healthy food alone.

    There is an influence of fatalism in the church where people think that no matter what they do, they will die when their 'time is up'. This is not Christianity nor is the idea that the body does not matter. These ideas come from eastern religions.

    Once we are in the kingdom, we can do all things through Christ which means that God will provide us with the means to take care of our bodies in the correct manner. So regarding those people that have been mentioned, that cannot access good food, the answer is for them to come to Christ to enable them to turn things around as they co-operate with Christ in sorting their lives out and stops them destroying themselves.

    Of course being a Christian does not automatically mean that they will do this. Many continue with their addictions to damaging fake foods and dependance on medications and other harmful things to function. It is a matter of continuing to live in the flesh. You might object: what about diabetics? They need medications or they will die! No, actually it is possible to cure diabetes with natural means and many other diseases which are just the result of bad eating habits.

    Many unsaved people have reformed their eating habits and begun to exercise their bodies without having the Holy Spirit within them and it is harder for them to do so, but many more cannot do it. We can. We have no excuse. Once we come to Christ we have the ability to get our bodies as fit and healthy as possible.

    No we do not need to become obsessed with our meals. Once we get into the habit of healthy eating it just comes naturally and automatially and we will shun fake foods even when they are served up at church do's as our taste buds change. It is a disgrace really to see what foods are served up in churches, full of sugar and damaging fats.
    Thanks Lynn Blakely - "thanks" for this post

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    if I had different DNA I would be thinner. Yet this is the DNA I live with.
    Doug you should read the latest research in epigenetics. It shows that the expression or not of faulty genes can be altered, it does not have to be a life sentance. People with genetic conditions like Alkylosing Spondilitis have been able to put the illness into remission and lead normal lives.

    Faulty genes are expressed according to the circumstances we are in and what we are eating. We can change it. My genes make it harder for my body to detoxify but because I am eating a very clean diet, drink clean water (distilled) get plenty of sunlight, and exercise, I am able to manage my condition. There is also a lot of mental illness in my family which is escaping me so far.

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    Senior Member Jim Chabot's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    I am not being judgemental towards poor unsaved people. I cannot as I was one of them and I have family members who are in this class. Many are bound up in bondages and addictions (to food also not just alcohol and drugs) which are taking their lives from them. If I took them a bag of fresh organic greens they would throw them back at me but if I took them a box of donuts they would kiss my feet.

    My heart bleeds for them and I long for them to find Christ, who delivers us from bandages, and rescues us from the pit. Their problems are not lack of money, but lack of salvation.

    Before I found Christ, I was in bondage to addiction to cigarettes and cheap low nutrient fake foods and did not reaslise that my body was important and that I should nurture it to enable me to live as long as possible so that God could use me to reach the lost for as long as possible despite having my health ruined as a baby with mercury poisoning that has meant that I have had to spend a life being unable to work. His teaching has enabled me to reach the age of 67 without being on any medications at all despite having a pile of conditions that have been healed through healthy food alone.

    There is an influence of fatalism in the church where people think that no matter what they do, they will die when their 'time is up'. This is not Christianity nor is the idea that the body does not matter. These ideas come from eastern religions.

    Once we are in the kingdom, we can do all things through Christ which means that God will provide us with the means to take care of our bodies in the correct manner. So regarding those people that have been mentioned, that cannot access good food, the answer is for them to come to Christ to enable them to turn things around as they co-operate with Christ in sorting their lives out and stops them destroying themselves.

    Of course being a Christian does not automatically mean that they will do this. Many continue with their addictions to damaging fake foods and dependance on medications and other harmful things to function. It is a matter of continuing to live in the flesh. You might object: what about diabetics? They need medications or they will die! No, actually it is possible to cure diabetes with natural means and many other diseases which are just the result of bad eating habits.

    Many unsaved people have reformed their eating habits and begun to exercise their bodies without having the Holy Spirit within them and it is harder for them to do so, but many more cannot do it. We can. We have no excuse. Once we come to Christ we have the ability to get our bodies as fit and healthy as possible.

    No we do not need to become obsessed with our meals. Once we get into the habit of healthy eating it just comes naturally and automatially and we will shun fake foods even when they are served up at church do's as our taste buds change. It is a disgrace really to see what foods are served up in churches, full of sugar and damaging fats.
    And yet you have failed to show how any of this stuff you are selling has anything to do with Christianity whatsoever. Jesus said that food goes in the mouth , goes into the belly and eventually ends up in the sewer, He said that it is not what we eat that defiles us. On another occasion He said to take no thought of what we should eat or drink or for our body, saying that life is more than food and the body more than clothing.

    You seem to be somewhat confused as to what might be Christian and what might not be. I've heard the old eastern religion fake, more times than I can remember. Perhaps you have this reversed, could it be that this food worship is what comes from eastern religion?
    -Jim

    To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.

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    Senior Member Jim Chabot's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    Doug you should read the latest research in epigenetics. It shows that the expression or not of faulty genes can be altered, it does not have to be a life sentance. People with genetic conditions like Alkylosing Spondilitis have been able to put the illness into remission and lead normal lives.

    Faulty genes are expressed according to the circumstances we are in and what we are eating. We can change it. My genes make it harder for my body to detoxify but because I am eating a very clean diet, drink clean water (distilled) get plenty of sunlight, and exercise, I am able to manage my condition. There is also a lot of mental illness in my family which is escaping me so far.
    Good advice for sure! Or is it??? Do you know Doug? Have you seen a picture of Doug? I'll give you a clue, Doug is in the lower picture on the naznet opening page, he is a long long way from obese. Doug is actually a pretty good looking guy, he looks young for his age and he is in pretty good shape. You did note that he rides 1000 miles per year on a bicycle right? Walks 3 miles a day every other day etc....... Doug is just fine, he was trying to make a point, apparently it has been missed.
    -Jim

    To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.

    Garrison Keillor
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Sanctification requires heavenly food.

    Jesus=>I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
    "The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?"
    (Psalms 27:1)
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Chabot View Post
    And yet you have failed to show how any of this stuff you are selling has anything to do with Christianity whatsoever. Jesus said that food goes in the mouth , goes into the belly and eventually ends up in the sewer, He said that it is not what we eat that defiles us. On another occasion He said to take no thought of what we should eat or drink or for our body, saying that life is more than food and the body more than clothing.

    You seem to be somewhat confused as to what might be Christian and what might not be. I've heard the old eastern religion fake, more times than I can remember. Perhaps you have this reversed, could it be that this food worship is what comes from eastern religion?
    Jim you are taking both out of context. Jesus was speaking about moral corruption. The Jews had the belief that food can corrupt us especially that which was offered as sacrifice which only the priests could eat (I believe). And the second reference is about worrying. We should trust God to supply our needs.

    I am not selling anything, I am only using common sense - we should be eating the foods that God supplies in their uncorrupted form and not drenched in chemicals. Can you show me any scientific studies that show that it does not matter what we eat? If we are sick and especially if we are obese, we need to use a sort of paleo/keto diet to reset our hormones which reducing intake alone will not do.

    Doctor Wahl's who was in a wheelchair with MS has cured herself with diet alone and travels the world to spread the message. She is preparing to fund her own studies to show that others are doing it as well with her diet.

    As for Doug, he said that he has to work very hard to stop himself gaining weight and that he suspects genetic defects (you can get them tested from 23andMe cheaply). My advice was that he did not have to be chained to constant exercise to keep the weight down if he changes his diet to one which would reverse the polymorphisms.

    This is all based on the physical laws that God built the universe on.

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    Senior Member Lucas Finch's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    fake foods
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    Senior Member Jim Chabot's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    Jim you are taking both out of context. Jesus was speaking about moral corruption. The Jews had the belief that food can corrupt us especially that which was offered as sacrifice which only the priests could eat (I believe). And the second reference is about worrying. We should trust God to supply our needs.
    Not out of context at all, ye Jesus was talking about the Jews unhealthy obsession with food and the manner of preparation and eating. He reiterates that we shouldn't be worrying about food, as Randy added, it is He, the bread of life which matters, not food. For myself, I struggle pretty much the same as Doug does, I burn a ton of calories most days, while I don't ride a bicycle very often I do ride about 5000 miles per year on snowmobile, and another 1000 on an ATV, I walk a couple of miles every day in the course of my work, and it's been said of me that just watching me work can get you tired. Still I eat very little and the weight doesn't come off. Which is a good thing in a way. You see a working person needs a certain amount of weight just to function, I've found that if I manage to get my weight below 180 I tend to bounce off of things that need to move when I need them to move.

    All that aside, I do eat the best that I can within the constraints of not developing an unhealthy obsession or becoming rude to others. Would I avoid eating at a Church do? Absolutely not, it would be incredibly rude to snub peoples efforts in that manner, I go out of my way to compliment people when I can, and food is a good vehicle at times. Then again, our Church is blessed with many Cape Verdian women who can cook so well that it is literally to die for. I'm also reminded that healthy food nut Euell Gibbons died at the ripe old age of 64 from complications of a genetic disorder. An unhealthy obsession with food is no guarantee of a long life. This world is not our home, while I'm pretty happy down here, my mind is occupied by spiritual food, not the food of this world which has no power to help us, my hope is to live forever, no need to obsess about this life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    I am not selling anything, I am only using common sense - we should be eating the foods that God supplies in their uncorrupted form and not drenched in chemicals. Can you show me any scientific studies that show that it does not matter what we eat? If we are sick and especially if we are obese, we need to use a sort of paleo/keto diet to reset our hormones which reducing intake alone will not do.
    No need for scientific studies. There is no refuting that our life expectancy is much longer than it was a few hundred years ago when organic foods were the only foods available. Sure there are a myriad of factors, but the long and the short of it is that we live plenty long enough with the fake foods we are currently eating, no need to fret over it. Almost sounds greedy, don't you think? It seems that the average person has a good chance of celebrating their eightieth birthday nowadays, and we somehow need to obsess about what we eat? Sure, a diet of Twinkies and cupcakes isn't going to keep us in good shape, we will probably feel uncomfortable and get fat which will make us feel even more uncomfortable, and we might die young, I can understand that. Still, if eating decent normal easily obtainable food like the rest of the world will get us to eighty in most cases, that is common sense!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    Doctor Wahl's who was in a wheelchair with MS has cured herself with diet alone and travels the world to spread the message. She is preparing to fund her own studies to show that others are doing it as well with her diet.

    I have a dear friend who suffers from MS (JR Chavier), there is no doubt that diet does affect MS. He has had pretty much every diet, drug, treatment that mankind has yet devised, and his struggle with this horrible disease is monumental. I know another Nazarene evangelist (Earl Bailey) who has had really good results battling his MS with diet and exercise, although in his later years it is now advancing upon him. MS is an incredibly unpredictable and diverse disease, it affects people in wildly different ways, diet doesn't work for everyone.

    Crag: I am quite sad to hear of your wife's condition, perhaps you have mentioned this before and I missed it, I'm sorry. Praying that her experience with MS will be of the most mild sort possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    As for Doug, he said that he has to work very hard to stop himself gaining weight and that he suspects genetic defects (you can get them tested from 23andMe cheaply). My advice was that he did not have to be chained to constant exercise to keep the weight down if he changes his diet to one which would reverse the polymorphisms.

    This is all based on the physical laws that God built the universe on.
    I think that you missed Doug's point. Some of us avoid obesity like it's not even a concern. My wife has been thin all of her life and she consumes about three times the amount of food that I eat. We are all different, and that is part of God's creation as well. What we don't need is another Procrustes, what we do need is to love people where they are. Especially when we consider that being obese is not sinful, nor any indication of a lack of spiritual maturity.
    -Jim

    To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.

    Garrison Keillor
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    Senior Member Jim Chabot's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Finch View Post
    Oh sure! So now you have to post a picture of me? Inconceivable!
    -Jim

    To know and to serve God, of course, is why we're here, a clear truth, that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernible but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard. But a little faith will see you through.

    Garrison Keillor
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    Senior Member Diane Likens's Avatar

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Finch View Post
    So you're saying they can't be sanctified?
    Not at all. Brenda's post (to Emiko) indicated that there's a simple and obvious solution to a complex problem. I'm simply pointing out that simple and obvious solutions are RARELY simple OR obvious.
    Wherever I am, God is, and all is well.
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    What amazed me was that I now consume way more calories than I did, and weigh less. The amount of exercise I do is gentle and enough to feel good but not obsess over. It seems (my non scientific guess) that my body has to burn more calories digesting the proper amount of protein, good fats, and good carbs like whole grains than it did when I ate so much sugars and bad fats and simple carbs.

    I don't obsess over a number on a scale. 250 is not bad if you are six feet three, horrible if you are five feet three. I do believe bodies come in all sizes and shapes and can still be healthy.

    And I do believe failure to discipline ourselves to eat as healthy as we can is like any other addiction or vice. But once we do what we can, what our dna does with that is just peachy keen. Some of us will be tall, some short, some muscular, some leaner, some wider, some thinner. That is fine.

    But I hate to see people obviously in pain over how they look or how they feel judged or how they feel physically when often (not always!) they could change that.

    My doc got my attention by telling me if I had peanut allergy it would be really stupid to eat peanuts so as not to offend others who made peanut laden salads or brownies, or because I loved them, or because they are a cheap form of protein. Even stupider if I then felt sorry for myself for the anaphylactic response. Same thing with eating wrong for your body type.

    Yep, I do not let myself be poisoned by meth pushers, or alcohol pushers, or sugar and fat pushers at church any more. I'm not better than them. But I choose not to let them poison me. Sometimes I'll skip a pot luck, or bring something safe for me, or a sack lunch, or just stay for some decaf and then go home and eat. Just like an alcoholic might judge me for refusing to drink with them or call me unsocial, I get called unsocial for those things. So be it. For ME, those foods are deadly. But I don't mind you enjoying them if they don't make you sick.

    Peace!
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    If I took them a bag of fresh organic greens they would throw them back at me but if I took them a box of donuts they would kiss my feet. .
    Not anyone I know personally!.

    My dad, if offered a box of organic greens he would take it in a heart beat and make a salad, if you offered donuts he would say, "meh, free is free".
    True, being low income his whole life (making around minimum wage and growing up in California where rent was astronomical!) He thinks paying extra for organic is silly and a waste of money. But if organic was cheaper he would buy it and think non-organic was silly. He eats a lot of starch because starch is super cheap, but he loves fresh fruits and veggies- especially salad which is fairly easy to prepare and goes with everything. When avacado and bell peppers are 50 cents each, or other veggies are a dollar a pound or less he stocks up big time, buying as much as he possibly could eat before they go bad.
    When I make mixed greens (kale, collard, and chard cooked in garlic and olive oil and sprinkled with lemon and pine nuts) he gobbles it up. When I make him green juice (spinich, kale, cabbage, celery, bell pepper, and tomato) he drinks it and enjoys it.

    Why do you say it has nothing to do with money??

    Now, my mom on the other hand. If you offered her a choice of donuts vs greens she would choose donuts every time! Now, she is also very poor and to her free is free, so if donuts were NOT an option she would take the free veggies and say, "well, free is free".

    Yes, my mom lives on peanut butter and jelly, white rice and hot dogs, koolside, and homemade sweet (sweet!!!) tea (they are divorced) and when I come over to her house and she makes dinner she warms up a can of green beans because "I know you like to have veggies with every meal" (as tho that made ME the weird one)

    But even she wouldn't REFUSE a FREE box of greens. She would say "it's not very tasty but at least I can save my money or buy something else"

    My best friend Becky STRONGLY preffers fresh, organic produce, she LOVES fresh fruits and veggies and doesn't have much of a taste for junk food (except Dr Pepper)

    On the other hand, she would rather have cable, internet, a reliable car (she went the payment on a 40k newerish route rather then then 250k 13 year old route) and live on mostly top ramen and have good food as a special treat then always eat good food and give up her car, cable, and internet.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    My heart bleeds for them and I long for them to find Christ, who delivers us from bandages, and rescues us from the pit. Their problems are not lack of money, but lack of salvation.

    ......

    Once we are in the kingdom, we can do all things through Christ which means that God will provide us with the means to take care of our bodies in the correct manner. So regarding those people that have been mentioned, that cannot access good food, the answer is for them to come to Christ to enable them to turn things around as they co-operate with Christ in sorting their lives out and stops them destroying themselves.
    This is starting to sound like a health and wealth "prosperity gospel."

    "Accept Christ and you will magically develop enough extra money to spend 10 dollars a pound or more on meat and you will be able to live off of 1200 calories a day without ever feeling hunger pain!"

    Nice thought, but it isn't reality. When I became a Christian and gave my life to Christ I did not have a huge increase in my income, the price of wild, free range, pesticide free food has not gone down, and I do not find it any easier to diet (I don't find myself less hungry and I don't find junk-food, like ice cream, less tempting- I always do sensible diets such as weight watchers, Paleo, or replace one meal with green juice (no fruit) or a smoothie of fruits, veggies, and Greek yogurt)

    I have had equal success (and lack of success) dieting both before and after finding Christ.

    When I try Paleo I do not buy free range organic grass fed becuse I can not afford it. But I do try to follow the whole 30 template, limit potatoes, and avoid sugar and grain.

    I can not afford free range grass fed meat, and so far God has not given me a middle class income tho He has given me meaningful and important work.

    So while it is a nice thought, it doesn't reflect reality.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post

    You might object: what about diabetics? They need medications or they will die! No, actually it is possible to cure diabetes with natural means and many other diseases which are just the result of bad eating habits.

    Many unsaved people have reformed their eating habits and begun to exercise their bodies without having the Holy Spirit within them and it is harder for them to do so, but many more cannot do it. We can. We have no excuse. Once we come to Christ we have the ability to get our bodies as fit and healthy as possible.
    This shows you do not know the difference between type 1 and type 2 diabetes.

    Type 2 diabetics can often be cured with diet and exercise.
    But type 1, especially if they make absolutely no insulin at all, can not be completely cured.

    My dad is a type 1 diabetic, makes no insulin at all. He went without taking insulin because he was sick and was not eating or taking in any food, zero carbs, literally nothing but water.
    He ended up almost dying and being in intensive care for 3 days because his sugars were so high. See, even if you take in LITTERALLY ZERO carbs your body will MAKE glucose on its own, and without insulin that glucose will remain in your bloodstream.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda Redshaw View Post
    No we do not need to become obsessed with our meals. Once we get into the habit of healthy eating it just comes naturally and automatially and we will shun fake foods even when they are served up at church do's as our taste buds change. It is a disgrace really to see what foods are served up in churches, full of sugar and damaging fats.

    How many years until it kicks in? The biggest loser study was done after six years, even the one person who was able to keep the weight off said it was a constant daily struggle, she can't eat normally, she misses it, but if she eats one treat it can easily turn into a binge, and she can't eat what her friends eat even in healthy food, or she'll gain weight.

    Many who have lost 100 lbs and kept it off for years say they need to weigh and measure and write every bite for life or they will gain. That it is a constant life long struggle and they can only manage by making sure they always bring healthy food for when hunger becomes unbearable away from home, or when they are at a pot luck or other outing they have their own healthy snack to help they say no, and always weigh and measure and record every single bite. (the interviews I read were at five years after keeping the weight off)

    I have followed weight watchers for a year at a time (multiple times, tho it hasn't stuck perminantly... eventually the strictness of measuring everything starts to slip as other priorities take my thoughts away from my diet), and done whole30 about 3 times with Paleo(ish, can not afford free range wild caught grass fed, etc, may have a little milk in my coffee every so often, may use peanut butter on my apples if I am out of almond butter- it's much cheaper and my daughter likes it better) eating for a few months but my weight doesn't change (tho my sugar cravings do go down considerably) I need to actually weigh and measure even Paleo food, not just eat to my hunger signals, for it to actually help me lose weight.

    How many years does it take before this happens? Ay six years are you half way there? Or a third of the way there?
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Smith View Post
    Yep, I do not let myself be poisoned by meth pushers, or alcohol pushers, or sugar and fat pushers at church any more. I'm not better than them. But I choose not to let them poison me.
    I definitely agree that sugar-laiden, highly processed junk food is a drug that for some reason is leagle to sell even to little children! And it is pushed by everyone! It's everywhere you look!
    Your work will provide a tray of donuts tho they wouldn't provide a bottle of vodka. It's a drug pushed at church pot luck and offered between services.

    It's like trying to quit heroin when secretly heroin is slipped into almost all available food you don't make yourself at home, advertised on every street corner, offered for free at work and church, sold everywhere you wait in line...

    Sugar is the "leagle drug", and everywhere you look everyone is pushing it
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane Likens View Post
    Not at all. Brenda's post (to Emiko) indicated that there's a simple and obvious solution to a complex problem. I'm simply pointing out that simple and obvious solutions are RARELY simple OR obvious.
    Sorry. I should have included a "tongue in cheek" disclaimer. Carry on.
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Smith View Post
    What amazed me was that I now consume way more calories than I did, and weigh less. The amount of exercise I do is gentle and enough to feel good but not obsess over. It seems (my non scientific guess) that my body has to burn more calories digesting the proper amount of protein, good fats, and good carbs like whole grains than it did when I ate so much sugars and bad fats and simple carbs.

    I don't obsess over a number on a scale. 250 is not bad if you are six feet three, horrible if you are five feet three. I do believe bodies come in all sizes and shapes and can still be healthy.

    And I do believe failure to discipline ourselves to eat as healthy as we can is like any other addiction or vice. But once we do what we can, what our dna does with that is just peachy keen. Some of us will be tall, some short, some muscular, some leaner, some wider, some thinner. That is fine.

    But I hate to see people obviously in pain over how they look or how they feel judged or how they feel physically when often (not always!) they could change that.

    My doc got my attention by telling me if I had peanut allergy it would be really stupid to eat peanuts so as not to offend others who made peanut laden salads or brownies, or because I loved them, or because they are a cheap form of protein. Even stupider if I then felt sorry for myself for the anaphylactic response. Same thing with eating wrong for your body type.

    Yep, I do not let myself be poisoned by meth pushers, or alcohol pushers, or sugar and fat pushers at church any more. I'm not better than them. But I choose not to let them poison me. Sometimes I'll skip a pot luck, or bring something safe for me, or a sack lunch, or just stay for some decaf and then go home and eat. Just like an alcoholic might judge me for refusing to drink with them or call me unsocial, I get called unsocial for those things. So be it. For ME, those foods are deadly. But I don't mind you enjoying them if they don't make you sick.

    Peace!
    Sarah yes me too. A year ago I was 2 sizes larger yet eating less. Now I can eat as much as I want so long as it is in the diet fats included and keeping my weight stable. I cannot touch grains or dairy I have found as I have SIBO - small intestine bacterial overgrowth which will heal eventually |I believe. I have the same problem at church but they have given up trying to tempt me as even if I wanted to break the diet for once I would not do it in front of them as they would think that there was really nothing wrong with me and it was all in my head.

    It depresses me to see the tables laden with foods that destroy health and not build it up. I guess they can only apply the verse that says not to make a brother stumble to alcohol yet refined carbs are just as addictive.
    Last edited by Brenda Redshaw; February 13th, 2017 at 05:00 AM. Reason: spelling error
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Emiko

    I come from a culture (coal minning and steel making) where the people have been oppressed for so long they have lost concept of what looking after themselves means, it has always been just about survival as casualties from these industries has been high and no-one expected to live for long. Sadly.

    No not health and wealth. Finding Christ does however lead to improvement of ones situation. Your priorities change. But agreed you do not suddenly get money pouring in. That would only feed our greed. Nor does it break the bondages (sorry not bandages lol) though the biggies often leave like substance abuse. But I was still addicted to smoking and eating bad foods agreed. What is needed is for the believer to be entirely sanctified. When this happens things drastically change. Also miracles happen more.

    For example, I put an item of furniture up for sale on ebay last week but underpriced it by £100 or $125. I felt depressed but said to the Lord, okay you are in charge of my finances now, if it does sell at that price I will take it in peace knowing it is yours. Then someone bought it, so okay I thought but then they did not pay for it so it looks like I can put it back up at the right price

    We receive the mind of Christ and our thinking changes exponentially (sp?) Our minds are much clearer and we can think of novel solutions and have the Lord giude us in what we need to do dietwise. I find that Paleo is a step in the right direction but brings nothing more than some improvement for many people who have serious illness.

    If the immune sysem is involved then nuts seeds and dairy are out. one needs the FB autoimmune elimination/provokation diet which is the strictest. People are recovering from all sorts of autoimmune diseases.

    Type 1 diabetes is increasingly understood to be autoimmune and will respond to such a diet. The beauty of the diet is that it is tailored to the individual and the body will lead the way in its reactions when provoked. Of course when one is still inthe throes of the illness, not eating will not help as you say the liver produces sugar and uses body muscle when needed.

    How long you ask? If the diet is right improvement can be rapid and some on this diet see a vast improvement within a month. Others take longer and still cannot add eliminated foods after a year, but the good thing is there is no need to weigh or measure if you have cut out food that is triggering the immune system like nuts or dairy. I just eat what I want and the good thing is that my cravings have gone and my appetite has gone down.

    Other things help though like eating at the right times in a day - having a big protein breakfast with fat, avoiding blue light from screens, getting out in the sun which is very important etc. It has taken me a few years to work out what my body needs but having the Lord lead has made a huge difference.
    Last edited by Brenda Redshaw; February 13th, 2017 at 04:59 AM.
    Thanks Sarah Smith - "thanks" for this post

  37. #37
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Every body is different. For me, eating right has meant after 20 years on Prilosec, most of that at two times a day, I am off it completely. I struggled with allergies life long and they vanished when I started eating right. Mold exposure excepted, but that may be reactive rather than actual allergy. I don't do organic except what we grow at home because I do not believe the logistics are there yet for enough people to afford them. Shoot, don't think we have the knowledge yet to even produce enough food that way. Do agree soil is depleted and avoid chemicals as much as I can affordably. I don't believe fresh is always best--too much formal home ec schooling to think that way, lol. Rather make my spaghetti sauce (if out of frozen we grew) with canned tomato sauce than with out of season, picked green, shipped, then gassed to redden fresh tomatoes. More nutrients.

    I will post my basic diet, but that doesn't mean anyone else should eat like I do without a doc's approval. I'll give the basic food plan, then if one loses too much or too rapidly the rule in adding back foods is first an extra protein a day, then if needed an extra good carb, then an extra fat.

    It is a variant of the diabetic divided plate diet tailored to my specific needs. I have 3 snacks, mid morning, mid afternoon, and two hours before bed. On those I shoot for no more than 10 grams of carb, at least 5 of protein.

    Each meal I get: one dairy serving. one fresh fruit serving. one good carb. one protein size of deck of playing cards. unlimited free veggies. 2 tablespoons good fat daily.

    To know what constitutes a good carb, or serving of dairy, or free veggie, etc. you can just google diabetic divided plate diet.

    I cook from scratch mostly, don't dine out a lot, and find the yellow packet artificial sweetener raises my blood sugar like glucose does, the blue gives me reflux, and the pink can be used a bit but worsens joint pain, as does sugar. To sweeten, which isn't a lot, literally a measured 1/4 teaspoon of honey is extremely sweet.

    Read labels--much prepared, canned, or restaurant meal has sugar added. Heaven help us the church ladies here put it in soup, chili, salads, and spaghetti sauce.

    Took me 3 weeks to lose the cravings for bad food. About 6 months after I dropped sugar I was tempted to have just one bite of a used to be favorite chocolate cake, very moist and gooey and the icing to die for. Took that bite and YUCK YUCK DOUBLE YUCK how do people eat that foul stuff? Felt like lard coated my tongue and was sickeningly sweet.

    It isn't expensive. Took about 3 months to learn to eyeball a serving so don't need to measure now. Is basically what dh did in the 70's to lose 100 lbs that he hasn't regained. I eat more now than I did, feel better, love the taste of food more, don't feel deprived at all, and wonder why I waited so long.
    Thanks Brenda Redshaw, Gina Stevenson - "thanks" for this post

  38. #38
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    Sarah

    Well done in getting off Prilosec!

    I will post my basic diet, but that doesn't mean anyone else should eat like I do without a doc's approval
    Unfortunately doctors are not given enough training on nutrition to be able to do this. The current advice concerning diabetes shows it. Research and trial is the only way unless one can consult an intergrative doctor which costs a lot.

    Rather make my spaghetti sauce (if out of frozen we grew) with canned tomato sauce than with out of season, picked green, shipped, then gassed to redden fresh tomatoes. More nutrients.
    Yes agree with that, if one is eating those sorts of foods. I do not eat nightshade foods as they are inflammatory but I do eat canned salmon for convenience though it is not great to eat out of tins. I make a great sauce called no-mato made from beetroot and carrots which is a great substitute that I have with bacon and eggs.

    I have 3 snacks, mid morning, mid afternoon, and two hours before bed.
    Latest research shows that it is better to train the body to burn fat not carbohydrates and leave a gap of 4 - 5 hours in between to give the body a chance to rest between bouts of digestion. And fructose is a problem for a a lot of people. I eat very little fruit in winter and berries only in summer. And dairy is not considered good for diabetics. This is all cutting edge though and a lot of nutritionists and even intergrative doctors will take some time to get up to speed.

    It depends on what one is expecting - to control ones diabetes or to cure it. I go for cure every time! I have got rid off a number of conditions so far, the first to go was sleep apnea after one week on the autoimme diet.

    My body is working much better since I made it use fats for fuel and I can stand much lower temperatures, and even enjoy the feeling that biting cold brings when the body kicks in with burning fat. When you do that you actually burn fat when you are asleep! I cannot go as low in carbs as I want to as my thyroid is still damaged and if my blood sugar drops adrenaline kicks in which you don't want.

    But great what you have been able to achieve so far!

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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    I have looked up the diet you are doing and the advice is outdated. See:

    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-...ood-sugar.html


    The results of a two-year dietary study led by Hans Guldbrand, general practitioner, and Fredrik Nyström, professor of Internal Medicine, are being published in the prestigious journal Diabetologia. 61 patients were included in the study of Type 2, or adult-onset diabetes. They were randomized into two groups, where they followed either a low-carbohydrate (high fat) diet or a low-fat diet.
    Many other studies confirm the findings.

  40. #40
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    Re: Swerved Into The Truth

    My typical diet where I eat as much as I want:

    Breakfast

    Steamed kale (at least 2 cups) with lightly smoked makerel steamed on top of the kale.

    Lunch

    Grass fed lamb with fat or belly pork. Not often chicken as it is too high in omega 6.

    Steamed cauliflower with garlic blended with duck fat. Or salad with salmon and sweet potatoe fried in coconut oil.

    Swede mashed with ghee to remove milk proteins.

    Steamed green cabbage

    Gravy without removing fat


    Piece of cake made from coconut, grated carrots, tiger nut flour, small amount of maple syrup, eggs, spices topped with icing made from cocnut butter, coconut syrup and vanilla with toasted coconut flakes on top. Yummy.

    Later

    I am not usually hungry in the evening. If I am I might have some squash soup or a handful of tiger nuts (high in fibre).

    I drink distilled water most of the time. Sometimes herbal tea or chickory root coffee.

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