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Thread: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Greg Crofford's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Schmidt View Post
    To be fair, Christians on either side of the political divide could (and do) say this same thing, just focusing on different neighbors. While one focuses on unborn children in danger of being aborted, the other focuses on underprivileged born children in danger of starving. Etc.
    For the life of me, I've not been able to understand why we have to choose either to protect unborn children (GOP) or born children (DEMS). This has played out so clearly in Oklahoma, for example, where the same GOP controlled legislature will pass very pro-birth resolutions then turn around and gut public education funding. Why can't we do both? (And this happens in reverse on the DEM side, strong support for Head Start programs and simultaneously rabid support for abortion). In both instances, it's maddeningly inconsistent.
    Last edited by Greg Crofford; March 18th, 2017 at 11:34 AM.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Craig Laughlin's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Crofford View Post
    For the life of me, I've not been able to understand why we have to choose either to protect unborn children (GOP) or born children (DEMS). This has played out so clearly in Olkahoma, for example, where the same GOP controlled legislature will pass very pro-birth resolutions then turn around and gut public education funding. Why can't we do both? (And this happens in reverse on the DEM side, strong support for Head Start programs and simultaneously rabid support for abortion). In both instances, it's maddeningly inconsistent.
    Exactly. Preach it.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Ward View Post
    Well, I do not think the Spirit is impotent, and yes we have a credibility gap. However, when we prematurely close off conversation, we do not allow the Spirit to lead, convict, and even shape conversation because we are too quick to shut it down and walk away. The real test is not whether there is conflict, but how we handle it, and are we able to learn from it. We do not allow that process to take place.
    Many of my unbelieving friends and coworkers do not have the problem that you describe; in that, they are willing to let the conversation go where it will and will allow it to change them or at least be open to change. I wonder why that is?
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Chabot View Post
    Glenn brought out a lot of what I've beern thinking when he talked of those who assign bias or label. Billy touched upon it when he talked about taking the other person seriously, then he talked about holding up a mirror and all the good will evaporated.
    That's fair. Nobody likes to be confronted about a perceived bias. The term 'assigned bias' carries with it the idea that if we have any biases, we are well aware of them. My comment about the mirror is an illustration of how ineffective such confrontation is.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis
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    Senior Member David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    We can't discuss politics and a few other topics in a civil manner because this is the only place most of us are allowed to be uncivil. We are Christians, and Christians are supposed to be nice. If you are a pastor, you even get paid to be nice. I've yet to meet a naznetter face to face that wasn't pleasant, though I can't stand some of you on the internet.

    We spend so much time being nice, pleasant, polite, jovial, etc. in real life that naznet becomes an outlet to be nasty. It's a place to express frustrations in a way we would never consider doing in person. When someone says something dumb to us at church, we smile and nod without a compulsion to correct. Here, it is difficult to let the most innocuous statement go unchallenged.

    So, while we shake hands, and play "Nazarene connect-the-dots" in person, such as when we gather at denominational events, the focus here is often on what divides us. An internet forum is not a mutual admiration society, and there's no "smile and nod" button on naznet.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    We can't discuss politics and a few other topics in a civil manner because this is the only place most of us are allowed to be uncivil. We are Christians, and Christians are supposed to be nice. If you are a pastor, you even get paid to be nice. I've yet to meet a naznetter face to face that wasn't pleasant, though I can't stand some of you on the internet.

    We spend so much time being nice, pleasant, polite, jovial, etc. in real life that naznet becomes an outlet to be nasty. It's a place to express frustrations in a way we would never consider doing in person. When someone says something dumb to us at church, we smile and nod without a compulsion to correct. Here, it is difficult to let the most innocuous statement go unchallenged.

    So, while we shake hands, and play "Nazarene connect-the-dots" in person, such as when we gather at denominational events, the focus here is often on what divides us. An internet forum is not a mutual admiration society, and there's no "smile and nod" button on naznet.
    :::Smiling and nodding:::
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis
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  7. #47
    Senior Member Glenn Messer's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Cox View Post
    :::Smiling and nodding:::
    Not me. I'm scowling and fuming. I'm saving the smiling and nodding for when we meet face to face.
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  8. #48
    Host CE and Gen. Disc. forums David Parker's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    HOST POST

    All of the Public Education posts have been moved to their own thread.

    Please post all related posts in that thread.

    David Parker
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  9. #49
    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    We can't discuss politics and a few other topics in a civil manner because this is the only place most of us are allowed to be uncivil. We are Christians, and Christians are supposed to be nice. If you are a pastor, you even get paid to be nice. I've yet to meet a naznetter face to face that wasn't pleasant, though I can't stand some of you on the internet.

    We spend so much time being nice, pleasant, polite, jovial, etc. in real life that naznet becomes an outlet to be nasty. It's a place to express frustrations in a way we would never consider doing in person. When someone says something dumb to us at church, we smile and nod without a compulsion to correct. Here, it is difficult to let the most innocuous statement go unchallenged.

    So, while we shake hands, and play "Nazarene connect-the-dots" in person, such as when we gather at denominational events, the focus here is often on what divides us. An internet forum is not a mutual admiration society, and there's no "smile and nod" button on naznet.
    Another way to say this... Compared with a local congregation, the relational cost for being unkind/uncivil on NazNet is almost nonexistent. Probably the main civilizing force for NazNet is the lack of online alternatives to NazNet. Getting a lifetime ban from NazNet is kind of like getting excommunicated from the Church before Martin Luther came along.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis
    Laughing Diane Likens, Bill Morrison - thanks for this funny post

  10. #50
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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    I'll probably have to post a lot of cookie recipes to atone for what I'm about to say, but here goes. NN is, in many respects, one of the kindest, gentlest place on the internet. Even the political comments were mild when compared with stuff outside the NN bubble. I've come to increasingly believe that the cure for bad speech is more speech. I'm not offended by what someone says online. If it's uncivil and immoderate, I just note that he/she is the kind of fool he/she is and keep that in mind anytime I try to communicate with them. But maybe I'm too thick-skinned to be as sensitive as I should be.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Billy Cox's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kennedy View Post
    I'll probably have to post a lot of cookie recipes to atone for what I'm about to say, but here goes. NN is, in many respects, one of the kindest, gentlest place on the internet. Even the political comments were mild when compared with stuff outside the NN bubble. I've come to increasingly believe that the cure for bad speech is more speech. I'm not offended by what someone says online. If it's uncivil and immoderate, I just note that he/she is the kind of fool he/she is and keep that in mind anytime I try to communicate with them. But maybe I'm too thick-skinned to be as sensitive as I should be.
    There probably aren't enough cookie recipes to atone for what I'm about to say.

    Even as comparatively kind/civil as discourse on NazNet is, we are holiness people and we're supposed to be better than that. The more self-aware among us know that we have a glaring credibility gap when it comes to just *how much victory* we really have over sin. It's one thing to accept that we have a credibility gap. It's quite another to showcase it on a public website.

    Having said that, I acknowledge that when things boil over, threads get locked, but not deleted. (except of course for the entire Current Events forum) This means that a conversation may crash and burn, but anyone who cares to can read the thread and sift through the wreckage.

    If the denomination's marketing wannabes were running the NazNet show, you can bet that overheated threads would be censored.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    - C.S. Lewis

  12. #52
    Senior Member Lucas Finch's Avatar

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    Re: Why can't we discuss politics in a civil manner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Cox View Post
    (except of course for the entire Current Events forum)
    TOO SOON!!!!!

    Rest In Peace, Current Events forum! You died too young.
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