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Thread: NCO DS Election

  1. #1
    Senior Member Kevin Wright's Avatar

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    NCO DS Election

    After 5 ballots we have a split. Even if #1 received the remaining votes it still wouldn't be 2/3's. It will be interesting to see if some start abandoning their first choice.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Kevin Wright's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Sam Barber moved up and was elected on the 8th ballot.

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    Senior Member David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    From reading on facebook, sounds like this was a bit of a mess. Is that accurate?

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    What district is NCO?

    Friend,

    Wes

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    Senior Member Kevin Wright's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Smith View Post
    What district is NCO?

    Friend,

    Wes
    North Central Ohio.

    Sent from my SM-T537V using Tapatalk
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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Did someone retire? Who?

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    Wes

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    Senior Member Kevin Wright's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Smith View Post
    Did someone retire? Who?

    Friend,

    Wes
    Yes, Steve Ward. He was elected 10 years ago to replace Dave Wilson when he was appointed General Secretary. I had the privilege of serving on the DAB with both of them. They were some good ones. Dave was missed, Steve will be missed, but looking forward to having Sam, if he accepts. He will be only the fifth NCO DS and the first elected from off the district.

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    Senior Member Kevin Wright's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    From reading on facebook, sounds like this was a bit of a mess. Is that accurate?
    I wouldn't call it a mess. Dr. Graves did a good job of keeping things light and up beat. I think it came down to those that wanted to elect from within the district and those that really didn't care about that and just wanted to elect the best person. The district had created an Advisory Council to come up with some recommended names. Some didn't want to hear them and wanted the traditional vote. It was voted to have the first ballot before hearing the names. The first ballots were evenly split between two names, one on-district and one off-district with the on-district leading most of the way until the final few ballots. Both names were on the Advisory Council's list.

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    Senior Member David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wright View Post
    I wouldn't call it a mess. Dr. Graves did a good job of keeping things light and up beat. I think it came down to those that wanted to elect from within the district and those that really didn't care about that and just wanted to elect the best person. The district had created an Advisory Council to come up with some recommended names. Some didn't want to hear them and wanted the traditional vote. It was voted to have the first ballot before hearing the names. The first ballots were evenly split between two names, one on-district and one off-district with the on-district leading most of the way until the final few ballots. Both names were on the Advisory Council's list.
    Thank you. Has the candidate accepted?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Kevin Wright's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Thank you. Has the candidate accepted?
    No word yet.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Kevin Wright's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    Thank you. Has the candidate accepted?
    From the NCO District:

    Rev. Sam Barber has declined the position of District Superintendent. Dr. Graves will now work with our District Advisory Committee to appoint our next DS. Please continue to pray for this transition. Thank you.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...84750154989311
    Thanks David Troxler, Craig Laughlin - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member David Troxler's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wright View Post
    From the NCO District:

    Rev. Sam Barber has declined the position of District Superintendent. Dr. Graves will now work with our District Advisory Committee to appoint our next DS. Please continue to pray for this transition. Thank you.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...84750154989311
    The following comment is not about the election or appointment of your DS Kevin, but on the video itself.

    I realize it is but a single snapshot of the assembly but that particular view from the back of the sanctuary revealed an inordinate amount of grey hair, white hair and no hair of those in attendance. I don't have any knowledge of the district so don't want to characterize it all in that way, but there is a trend that is troubling insofar as district assemblies are concerned that we have not purposely engaged younger adult leaders in the process.

    [Now, unless all those younger leaders have dyed their hair color or shaved their heads....]
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    Senior Member David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wright View Post
    From the NCO District:

    Rev. Sam Barber has declined the position of District Superintendent. Dr. Graves will now work with our District Advisory Committee to appoint our next DS. Please continue to pray for this transition. Thank you.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...84750154989311
    This is what so often happens when an assembly insists on open ballot voting rather than getting input from the district advisory committee. They think freedom is being taken away from them but really what happens is they end up getting no say in the matter because they elect somebody who declines then an appointment is made.

    If the district advisory committee brought a name to the assembly that had not already agreed that they would serve if elected then they did not do their job.

    Again I don't know anything about your district and hate to armchair quarterback but having just gone through this process over two years I feel I can speak with a semi-informed opinion.

    What will happen now is the district advisory committee will be forced to do the job that I'm sure dr. Graves tried to get them to do already which is get input from the district on needs and names, work from that list of names plus whatever names the bgs adds, narrow it down to a top choice and ask that choice if they're willing to serve. Then rather than the assembly getting to vote on that name they will simply be appointed. The only person guaranteed not to be appointed is the second runner-up

  14. #14
    Senior Member Kevin Wright's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    If the district advisory committee brought a name to the assembly that had not already agreed that they would serve if elected then they did not do their job.
    They did not contact the people on their list.
    Thanks David Troxler - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wright View Post
    They did not contact the people on their list.
    In my ever so humble opinion that is just sheerest folly. But the manual allows it. Quite a system we have and sometimes it works so who am I to question.
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    Site Manager G R 'Scott' Cundiff's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    In my ever so humble opinion that is just sheerest folly. But the manual allows it. Quite a system we have and sometimes it works so who am I to question.
    I see your point. What church would ever vote on a pastor without having at least interviewed the pastor and had the prospective pastor indicate at least interest in the position.

  17. #17
    Senior Member David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    At General Assembly when we were debating the resolution on DS reviews it was suggested that we were trying to make our government more episcopal. I guess the question is do we treat the DSs like pastors, which skews towards an episcopacy, or do we treat the DSs like GSs which we handle in a congregational way?

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Troxler View Post
    The following comment is not about the election or appointment of your DS Kevin, but on the video itself.

    I realize it is but a single snapshot of the assembly but that particular view from the back of the sanctuary revealed an inordinate amount of grey hair, white hair and no hair of those in attendance. I don't have any knowledge of the district so don't want to characterize it all in that way, but there is a trend that is troubling insofar as district assemblies are concerned that we have not purposely engaged younger adult leaders in the process.

    [Now, unless all those younger leaders have dyed their hair color or shaved their heads....]
    When district assemblies are held on week days, people who are working are reluctant to take days off. At least for NCO, teachers could participate if they are not working an extra job. Our district assembly looked similar but our NMI/NYI was held on a Saturday and there was less preponderance of old folk.

    Alisa
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    Senior Member Craig Laughlin's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    This is what so often happens when an assembly insists on open ballot voting rather than getting input from the district advisory committee. They think freedom is being taken away from them but really what happens is they end up getting no say in the matter because they elect somebody who declines then an appointment is made.

    If the district advisory committee brought a name to the assembly that had not already agreed that they would serve if elected then they did not do their job.

    Again I don't know anything about your district and hate to armchair quarterback but having just gone through this process over two years I feel I can speak with a semi-informed opinion.

    What will happen now is the district advisory committee will be forced to do the job that I'm sure dr. Graves tried to get them to do already which is get input from the district on needs and names, work from that list of names plus whatever names the bgs adds, narrow it down to a top choice and ask that choice if they're willing to serve. Then rather than the assembly getting to vote on that name they will simply be appointed. The only person guaranteed not to be appointed is the second runner-up
    Yep. If you all remember when my district did this (WAPAC) they were dead set against an interim and a committee to do a search. They practically laughed at me when I argued for it. Then after lot of ballets they elected someone who turned them down and the GS had to appoint an interim and start a search. In the end we had a great interim and found a great DS. Yes there was some grumbling and murmuring but six years (I think) later they all love him. -- We Nazarenes are a stubborn and hard headed bunch.
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    Senior Member David Troxler's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Laughlin View Post
    -- We Nazarenes are a stubborn and hard headed bunch.
    Dem's fightin' words!
    Laughing Craig Laughlin, Gina Stevenson - thanks for this funny post

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    Senior Member Craig Laughlin's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Troxler View Post
    Dem's fightin' words!
    I've been reading to much Fox News lately. The first thing I thought of when I read "Dem's" was democrats.
    It is not enough to be right, you have to be like Jesus.

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    Senior Member David Troxler's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Laughlin View Post
    I've been reading to much Fox News lately. The first thing I thought of when I read "Dem's" was democrats.
    I was afraid that might happen.
    Laughing Craig Laughlin, Lucas Finch - thanks for this funny post

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Troxler View Post
    Dem's fightin' words!
    An old Congregational minister with whom I worked for several years once made the observation that Congregationalists could be as fractious as Baptists - they just used a lot less water.
    Laughing David Troxler - thanks for this funny post

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    Senior Member Marsha Lynn's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Laughlin View Post
    Yep. If you all remember when my district did this (WAPAC) they were dead set against an interim and a committee to do a search. They practically laughed at me when I argued for it. Then after lot of ballets they elected someone who turned them down and the GS had to appoint an interim and start a search. In the end we had a great interim and found a great DS. Yes there was some grumbling and murmuring but six years (I think) later they all love him. -- We Nazarenes are a stubborn and hard headed bunch.
    Since we had a year's notice before age-mandated retirement of our D.S., our search committee got an early start. There was some push-back about bringing a single candidate to the D.A. That push-back even showed up here on NazNet. But as a board member at a church looking for a new pastor, I will go on record as being very pleased with the outcome of the search. My respect for Tim Crump as our district leader grows with every interaction we have with him.
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    Senior Member David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsha Lynn View Post
    Since we had a year's notice before age-mandated retirement of our D.S., our search committee got an early start. There was some push-back about bringing a single candidate to the D.A. That push-back even showed up here on NazNet. But as a board member at a church looking for a new pastor, I will go on record as being very pleased with the outcome of the search. My respect for Tim Crump as our district leader grows with every interaction we have with him.
    I have yet to hear of a district that worked the new process and regretted it.
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  26. #26
    Senior Member Craig Laughlin's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    I have yet to hear of a district that worked the new process and regretted it.
    Me too. I think it is pretty clear that that new way is the superior way.
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    Senior Member Eric Frey's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    The bigger queatiin is why on earth they would afjourn the DA before getting an answer. Everyone is in such a hurry no one does their job. Its not hard. Do your job!
    “Martyrs rather than the pastors of megachurches might now become our evangelistic exemplars, and the ‘excellence’ of evangelistic practice’ will be measurable not by numbers but rather by obedience to a crucified God”

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  28. #28
    Senior Member Tim Troxler's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Frey View Post
    The bigger queatiin is why on earth they would afjourn the DA before getting an answer. Everyone is in such a hurry no one does their job. Its not hard. Do your job!
    Or at the very least, notify the person after an early ballot! If the answer is a prompt "no" that would save a lot of headache.
    "Neither holiness nor love is Christian without the other...Love without holiness disintegrates into sentimentality. Personal integrity is lost. But holiness without love is not holiness at all. In spite of its label, it displays harshness, judgmentalism, a critical spirit, and all its capacity for discrimination ends in nitpicking and divisiveness." - MBW
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    Senior Member Lucas Finch's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    I have yet to hear of a district that worked the new process and regretted it.
    Shortly after the RMD went through that process a few years ago, I heard a bit of grumbling. However, I think with time most people will acknowledge that the process led to the person we need for the stage that we are in. So yes, it has been a good thing for us.
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  30. #30
    Senior Member Eric Frey's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by David Pettigrew View Post
    I have yet to hear of a district that worked the new process and regretted it.
    Funny. I have hears of several.
    “Martyrs rather than the pastors of megachurches might now become our evangelistic exemplars, and the ‘excellence’ of evangelistic practice’ will be measurable not by numbers but rather by obedience to a crucified God”

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    Senior Member David Pettigrew's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Frey View Post
    Funny. I have hears of several.
    Examples?

  32. #32
    Senior Member Eric Frey's Avatar

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    Re: NCO DS Election

    It is hard to give examples without naming names. And since most of what I hear is in personal private conversations I am not willing to divulge specifics. I think the real diffuculty here is gauging when the process has worked well and when it hasn't. Our system is built to slant in favor of the DS. Has there ever been a DS voted out just for not being a good DS? I am convinced with the way things are set up a DS could be a poor DS and still get a 90% recall vote. It is just the way the system works. So how would we know if we are electing quality folks?

    I have said plenty of times I am not opposed to a search process. I am skeptical of any process that has too much input from the General level. I am skeptical of any process that presents a single candidate that the DA does not have a chance to meet, hear from, and question before giving a yes/no vote, and I am skeptical of any process that appears to sell a candidate as God's chosen one.

    Both times I have been through this process, all three of those boxes were checked.

    Maybe it wouldnt be so frustrating to me if there werent any good solutions, but a good solution exists and we still prefer our broken ones. I am optimistic though because we are at least trying some new things.
    “Martyrs rather than the pastors of megachurches might now become our evangelistic exemplars, and the ‘excellence’ of evangelistic practice’ will be measurable not by numbers but rather by obedience to a crucified God”

    - Bryan Stone Evangelism After Christendom

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