Contemplative Spirituality / Lectio Divina = Transcendantal Meditation?

[Rich Schmidt]

Rich here are things I read in the document you linked.

I'm honestly not familiar with the author of that paper. George linked to it as an example of a Christian proponent of contemplative prayer, so I'm just working with what he gave me. I don't want to give the impression that I'm in total agreement with him or his approach.

You're right that the contemplative prayer Whitacre is describing in that paper is different from meditative prayer that focuses on a passage of Scripture, etc. But it is has been practiced by Christians for centuries. If you're concerned, you might read that section I pointed to earlier, where the author acknowledges some of the dangers. Aw, heck, I'll just go ahead and quote it here:

Dangers in contemplative forms of prayer

Danger can arise if we practice the more extreme forms of physical control found in some forms of contemplative prayer. A gentle attention to the breath is not a danger, but more intensive forms of control of the breath or the beating of the heart can interfere with these functions and cause damage. Such practices should be avoided unless one has a competent guide.

Another form of danger occurs if we let our mind go blank, rather than focusing on the Lord. Such a condition can open us to demonic suggestion.

Sometimes people try to practice contemplative forms of prayer, but in fact they only daydream. Instead of an alert concentration on God, they simply let their minds roam among various thoughts and feelings, with perhaps a vague sense of God in the background. Such woolgathering is not the Prayer of the Heart and can have the negative effect of making us more vague and fuzzy in the rest of our life.

Since contemplative forms of prayer can be disturbing or even dangerous, it is often recommended that we have a spiritual director, or at least a close friend who is sympathetic with such prayer with whom to share something of what we are experiencing. However, if we avoid excessive interference with our breathing and heartbeat, and if we focus on the Lord, asking for His guidance and protection, there need be no danger. The regular reading of Scripture and participation in Christian community, especially worship, are further safeguards.

Along with these practical dangers there are also potential theological dangers. Those who seek to simply attend to God’s Presence as such, with no thoughts of any sort, are practicing an ancient and valuable form of Christian prayer, but such prayer can run the risk of seeking a God beyond God, like some of the ancient Gnostics, and denying the Incarnation. We can guard against this danger by putting our contemplative prayer in the context of lectio divina, the meditative reading of Scripture.

Similarly, such forms of prayer can promote unmediated God-mysticism. The focus of the New Testament, however, is the Presence of God mediated to us in Jesus, the divine/human Son. Indeed, St. John seems to consciously reject unmediated God-mysticism, insisting that no one has seen God apart from Christ (e.g., John 1.18). The writings of John Main contain much help in understanding the role of Christ and the Holy Spirit in contemplative prayer.

It seems clear to me that the focus of this type of prayer he's describing is connecting with our Heavenly Father at a heart level, and that this is done in the context of Scripture and church life.

By the way, after that section, he talks about similarities between contemplative prayer and modes of prayer found in other religions. It's short, but it's worth reading.

[Jon Bemis]

George, NazNet is NOT a true representation of Nazarene thinking. It's more like a place where people who feel alone in their churches can come out and find that they aren't lone rangers after all. But Joe and Nancy Nazarene certainly aren't into the Emerging church or Open Theism.

I agree with Hans that Naznet is not a true representation of what the majority of Nazarenes believe. I would add to all this, that although I'm among those who are not into the Emerging Church or Open theism, I enjoy participating in the discussions on this forum.

[George Wallace]

Rich,
Dennis wrote:

Whether or not one agrees with The Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius, it cannot be claimed that it is something new or associated with eastern mysticism. And it was around a long time before any version of TM, which was not introduced to the West until the late 1950s and caught on in the hippy era of the 1960s. Many Methodist churches, and several Nazarene churches that I know about, are using an adapted version of Ignatius' Spiritual Exercises in the Heart Paths program as a vehicle for spiritual formation.

Obviously, I am of a different opinion. And I think I can support that opinion cogently and tactfully.

Perhaps this approach to spirituality is feared...

I don’t fear it. I just question its inclusion; or rather I question its unquestioned inclusion in to Protestant Christianity.

From Wiki:
Ignatius Loyola wrote Spiritual Exercises between the years 1522-1524, the publication is a simple set of meditations, prayers, and various other mental exercises…He was very vigorous in fighting the Protestant Reformation and promoting the following Counter-Reformation.

While I am not militantly anti-Roman Catholic, I don’t believe in Eucharistic Adoration or Transubstantiation , Sacerdotalism, Praying to the Saints, veneration of the Virgin Mary or that the Church’s Authority is on par with Scripture and… a litany of other the things.

In short I am a Protestant for a reason.

While I was using hyperbole when I called the pre-GA retreat TM, I believe that Dale’s first post in this thread alone shows that TM and CP DNA share a significant number of alleles in common.

Presuming for the moment that my TM idea was thoroughly and effectively shredded, that still leaves us with the question of should these practices be unquestionably assimilated into PROTESTANT Christianity.

George, I really don't want to debate this issue.

As I said, I don't really want to debate this, so FWIW. I do know the heart of several pastors who are pursuing contemplative spirituality, meditative prayer, and lectio divina as vehicles for spiritual formation within their congregations

George, some of us (at least, one of us) stopped participating much in the theology forum because it isn't much about theology most of the time...

Randy’s correct there isn’t a forum for discussing Spirituality or Spiritual Formation issues, but IMO Theology is the closest applicable forum.

Just one question: what does lectio divina have to do with all this TM stuff you guys are worrying about?

I kinda though that was the point of the post.

Lectio divina is no more like TM than the NPH Sunday School quarterly is.

Spoken in the same spirit as the KJV Only crowd! It is what it is because I say it is, or rather, it isn’t what I say it isn’t because I say it isn’t.

Rich this was your initial question

So.... What do you all think? Are these practices (centering prayer, lectio divina) just a repackaged version of transcendental meditation?

Dennis doesn’t want to discuss it.

Randy, wants to stick-and-move like Oscar De La Jolla

My questions:

Have I missed a Fly in my Chardonnay? Was/is this thread some sort Grand Irony that I missed? In short, do you really want to discuss this topic?

I have what I believe to be legitimate source data, video, web-links, articles etc, and I really thought this would make an interesting discussion. But if this is just some exercise in poking sharp ticks in the guy with the dissenting opinions; then I think my time would be more valuably spent playing CandyLand with my daughter.

So is this legit?

[Randy McRoberts]

George, trying to discuss a topic with you is like talking to my dog. My dog seems to be listening, even tipping his head to one side once in awhile as if being quite thoughtful. But the truth is, he is only listening for his own name and whether he is being offered a snack or being made to take a bath. He isn't a good listener.

I think the reason it is difficult is that you are so cogent and tactful. And humble.

[Randy McRoberts]

We have a contingent of those who consider themselves to be Truly Nazarene, and thus Truly Christian, I guess. The rest of us can only sit at their feet and wonder why they deign to allow us to speak at all.

As for credentials -- I must be going mad -- all my great-grandparents were Nazarenes and I am 56 years old, so you can guess how far back that goes. Seven times I was whipped, eight times I was beaten in the synagogue, three times I was imprisoned, and twice I was shipwrecked. I am fat, but not morbidly obese (this may work against my cred). I am tall, but not an Olivet basketball player. In fact, I went to college but not Olivet nor any other Nazarene institution, save a year at NTS. ......

So, I bow to the Truly Nazarene. I humbly ask that you in your grace will allow me to continue to live until I die a natural death and take my chances on the mercy of God, whose ear you surely have.

God bless us, everyone.

[Randy McRoberts]

One more thing, George. If you think lectio divina is similar to transcendental meditation, then you don't know beans from apple butter. Remind me to get my own groceries.

There are other legitimate forms of spirituality besides southern gospel music and Chick tracts.

[Rich Schmidt]

I don’t fear it. I just question its inclusion; or rather I question its unquestioned inclusion in to Protestant Christianity.
...

Presuming for the moment that my TM idea was thoroughly and effectively shredded, that still leaves us with the question of should these practices be unquestionably assimilated into PROTESTANT Christianity.

George, I wouldn't say that these practices have been adopted unquestioningly. I'm sure there are some who jump from one fad to the next, and this is just the latest one. But that's not how these things were addressed when I studied at Olivet and NTS. These, along with all kinds of other issues and perspectives and topics, were studied, scrutinized, questioned, and discussed. Some folks spend their entire academic careers on these things, studying them, writing about them, arguing about them, etc. And we get to benefit from it.

So... I don't think these things have been "unquestioningly" adopted. And I don't think they should be now. Just because NPH publishes a series of teen Bible studies called "Lectio Divina" doesn't mean that any particular church should adopt it without question. Just because our seminary and one of our universities co-sponsor a spiritual retreat doesn't mean we should all sign up for it without asking questions first.

However... I do think that churches, pastors, and members of the Church of the Nazarene should give their denominational leaders some credit and consider that they've probably thought some of these things through a bit more thoroughly than you and I have. Right?

Frankly, I think Randy needs to tone it down. A lot. But his comment about lectio divina being very different from both contemplative prayer and TM is right on the mark. Lectio divina is a particular approach to reading, meditating upon, and responding to Scripture. It's a very different practice from contemplative prayer, at least as I've understood it. So while you may have arguments against its practice, they'd better be different from your arguments against contemplative prayer, because those simply wouldn't apply.

I hope this answers your question: Yes, I'm interested in discussing this topic. I wouldn't have started the thread otherwise. And I've been interacting with the links you've provided. If you have others, feel free to share them.

[George Wallace]

George, trying to discuss a topic with you is like talking to my dog. My dog seems to be listening, even tipping his head to one side once in awhile as if being quite thoughtful. But the truth is, he is only listening for his own name and whether he is being offered a snack or being made to take a bath. He isn't a good listener.

I think the reason it is difficult is that you are so cogent and tactful. And humble.

[Randy McRoberts]

George, you are ever so much more clever than I could ever hope to be. I yield to your greatness and majesty.

[Michael Scarlett]

Obviously it's easier to throw stones at a distance and be "thick in thin places" rather than working through some of the content of these practices. Why not pick up Foster's books on Prayer and the disciplines or reading Basil Pennington's short book An Invitation to Centering Prayer that discusses both centering prayer and Lectio Divina? But where's the fun in that...Perhaps "heresy" is communicable through reading?