Peyton Manning

[Ryan Scott]

I've been the first one defending Peyton Manning's intellect and on-field leadership abilities here. Now, I'm beginning to wonder if he won a few battles and lost the war.

We're seeing, with no running game and scrap heap receivers he's really struggling to make throws and lead the offense.

Obviously he's working in rough conditions, but what do you think about this idea: That essentially being his own Offensive Coordinator for the past decade has stifled his learning curve?

Think about it. We now see (and many defenders are saying) how predictable his play calls are - thus the reason for so many interceptions. The biggest difference is that previously he had fantastic receivers whose crisp routes could overcome the predictable play calling. The old, "you know what the Colts are going to do, but you still can't stop it."

Now that this factor is no longer in effect, perhaps Manning does not possess the tools to spin straw into gold? Maybe his innate abilities have actually kept him from learning some of the tricks of the trade as an NFL QB, which would come in handy when the system breaks down.

Thoughts?

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I'm likely not able to post in this thread. I think you all know how I feel.

[David Morris]

Working in rough conditions is close to being an understatement. You are right on with a few issues.

The Colts have absolutely no running game. This is what happens when your primary running back is 3rd string (Mike Hart) or 4th string (Javarris James), and they can't do much receiving out of the backfield. Joseph Addai is still the teams leading rusher, and he has only played in half of the team's games.

On the receiving end, it doesn't get any better. Peyton has lost 2 of his 3 favorite targets. Dallas Clark is out for the season, and Austin Collie has missed significant time. Reggie Wayne has been healthy for the most part. Add onto that Anthony Gonzalez being out for the season, and you basically have a receiving corps on the IR that could rival the top receiving corps from any other team.

Perhaps the most devastating problem with the Colts offense is their offensive line. This is a unit that has not played together very much, and quite frankly, they aren't very good. Outside of Jeff Saturday, you have many inexperienced players attempting to play positions they aren't used to playing. The switch from guard to tackle, or vice versa, is difficult. Last week, during the game against San Diego, Peyton was sacked more times by his right guard (getting pushed into him) than he was the DL from San Diego. We have seen many solid offensive lineman leave Indianapolis, because Bill Polian believes that he can find players that are just as effective through the draft, and are thus very cheap on the salary cap. The negative side of that line of thinking is starting to show. Look at many of the top teams around the league today (New England, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, New York Jets) and they all have cohesive units. The Colts usually face a defense with 4 in the box and playing 7 LB's/DB's. That is tough for any quarterback.

The other problem is the defensive side of the ball. Having lost 3 starters for the season and others missing significant time doesn't help. We struggle against the run, and when we do that we can't control the clock or get the ball back.

Right now the Colts are 6-6. Not where I imagined they would be at the beginning of the season. In order for them to make the playoffs, they must win the division. With the remained of the schedule being at home against Jacksonville, at Tennessee, at Oakland, and at home against Tennessee, I would say it is doable to sneak into the playoffs at 10-6.

Speaking of Peyton though...he still leads the league in passing yards, is tied for 2nd in TD passes, and this is considered a very down year for him. The most telling is probably being ranked 16th in passer rating. In his many years in the league, I have never seen him with consecutive 4 interception games. What amazes me though is that the Colts are just a bounce of the ball in a few games away from being 9-3. Just last night, the Dallas returner fumbles the ball and it bounces straight into the chest of a Colts defender who tries to return it instead of falling on it. Would have been a recovery at the 30 with 20 seconds left. Instead it goes into overtime with Dallas kicking a FG for the win.

All of this to say, Peyton is seriously struggling this year. However, let it be consistent over a longer period of time than 4 or 5 games to say that he has lost the war.

[David Morris]

I'm likely not able to post in this thread. I think you all know how I feel.

So saying likely gives you the freedom to respond, just in case?

[Jeremy D. Scott]

Right now the Colts are 6-6. Not where I imagined they would be at the beginning of the season. In order for them to make the playoffs, they must win the division. With the remained of the schedule being at home against Jacksonville, at Tennessee, at Oakland, and at home against Tennessee, I would say it is doable to sneak into the playoffs at 10-6.

It is quite possible that even if the Pats beat the Jets tonight, they will have to visit Jacksonville or Indy on Wild Card weekend. Crazy...

[David Morris]

It is quite possible that even if the Pats beat the Jets tonight, they will have to visit Jacksonville or Indy on Wild Card weekend. Crazy...

A crazy year in the NFL.

[Ryan Scott]

It is quite possible that even if the Pats beat the Jets tonight, they will have to visit Jacksonville or Indy on Wild Card weekend. Crazy...

It beats going 11-5 and sitting at home on Wild Card weekend.

[Ryan Scott]

All of this to say, Peyton is seriously struggling this year. However, let it be consistent over a longer period of time than 4 or 5 games to say that he has lost the war.

That's sort of my point, though. Once he gets all his weapons back the issue is gone. We can't see how he'd perform without weapons when he has them. My biggest contention was just that he's grown so much to rely on the system he's unable to deviate when he needs to do so. He's been amazingly predictable his whole career, but relied on superior talent to win. That's been his greatest strength; I'm just now wondering if it's also become his greatest weakness.

[David Morris]

That's sort of my point, though. Once he gets all his weapons back the issue is gone. We can't see how he'd perform without weapons when he has them. My biggest contention was just that he's grown so much to rely on the system he's unable to deviate when he needs to do so. He's been amazingly predictable his whole career, but relied on superior talent to win. That's been his greatest strength; I'm just now wondering if it's also become his greatest weakness.

I don't know that he necessarily relies on the system, because Peyton is the system. Everything runs through him, and they are 6-6 and not 2-10 because of him. His top receivers are Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Jacob Tamme (who is that?), Blair White (who?), Gijon Robinson (who?). I also don't know that he has been as predictable as you might suggest. He is a student of the game, and is able to study and plan around any team.

[Steven Martinez]

FWIW: I think a major factor is that NFL has implemented a rule this year that directly effects the Colts. By moving the umpire behind the line of scrimmage, the play has slowed down until the umpire gets in position. The Colts are essentially not able to run their hurry up offense as in the past. I think this rule change has more to do with things then ever before because Manning cannot rush the play or prevent the defense from subbing as he did in the past. Give Peyton a year to adjust to this and I think the Colts will get back on track.

[Shea Zellweger]

I think Steve's point above is important. Also, based on the couple of recent primetime games, I'm not sure the problem is necessarily Peyton's play calling as it is execution. last night, both Pick-6s looked like miscommunication with receivers. Against SD, it was a similar situation. The NE interception to close out that game looked like it was Manning's fault, but I think if you were to count the number of INTs Manning has thrown in which he was throwing to a receiver, and the defense made a good read, the total decreases quite a bit. Yes, some of every QB's INTs are going to be mis-cues, but Manning looks like he has an inordinate amount of those this year.

Of course, you could just credit the Philadelphia defense for so demoralizing Manning that he's now falling apart .

[Ryan Scott]

Good point, Steve. We'll have to see if he can adjust. Although, as I said, if he's got a healthy team next year, it will not be the same conditions.

I also read somewhere that by cutting Ryan Lilja, they ruined their run blocking, which explains some of the issues the line is having this year.