What is contemplative/emerging spirituality?

[Kelly R Davis]

I was surfing the net and found this website "the lightouse" If these comments are even half true then I am ddeeply troubled. Further comments are linked to this trend at PLNU as well. Maybe Dr. Ord can help understand this teaching.

Below is a link to a video* of a lecture that took place at Northwest Nazarene University in Idaho, one of the Nazarene Universities that is strongly promoting the contemplative/emerging spirituality. The lecture, presented by NNU Thomas Oord and College of Idaho, Denny Clark, was taught by Dr. Jay McDaniel, a self-proclaimed “Christian” Buddhist universalist sympathizer who is said to be highly influenced by the late Catholic panentheistic monk, Thomas Merton. This is an 83 minute video, but for those who want to understand the paradigm shift that has occurred in the church and continues wooing millions with the mystical, universalist spirituality, this video is well worth the watch. But we warn you, it is very disturbing. Here is are two quotes from Jay McDaniel in the video:

“God has been … luring all people in the world toward different forms of wisdom … and we don’t have to equate them. It’s possible that a Buddhist might know something that’s truly different from what a Christian knows and they might be complimentary rather than contradictory. ”
“I think everything is interconnected. That’s part of my Buddhism.”

When asked by a student whether he believed that Jesus was “the way, the truth, and the life,” McDaniel stated that if Jesus had meant to say that He himself was the way, the truth, and the life, it would have been egocentric and arrogant of Jesus – He only meant to point people in the right direction – letting go of ego and grasping love. McDaniel stated also that Buddhist mindfulness (eastern meditation) is just as truth filled as doctrine and theology. He said there was an overemphasis in the church on doctrine calling it bibliolatry (idol worship of the Bible).
*The date that the NNU lecture with Dr. Jay McDaniel took place is October 12, 2006. Because the Nazarene universities are continuing to move in the same direction (toward the new mystical spirituality) as they were then, we believe it is appropriate to post this video now.

[Todd Erickson]

Er...by what knowledge are you claiming that Merton was Panentheistic? Merton would not have denied that Jesus is the only way.

The problem with the Emerging Movement is that a lot of it only focuses on what it isn't. So there's room for folks like this who are focusing on Love instead of Christ (which, in the end, means that they're focusing far more on feeling than a "who", and that's incredible dangerous, and quite heretical).

There have always been people leaning far more toward "can't we all just love each other" on all sides of things...but then, OTOH, there are plenty of people who see love as dangerous, and will only approach it as a subset of Righteousness, Holiness, or Godliness. Which excuses them from actually having to love anybody, except in the most intellectual way.

Merton always specified the difference between Zen Buddhism and the spiritual practices of Zen; unfortunately, most Modernist thinkers can't see the difference, and accuse Merton of having attempted to blend Christianity and Buddhism.

But then, most Modernists refuse to acknowledge that Christianity actually has Eastern origins, as well.

Also, while you've linked to several posts on the lighthouse page decrying these folks, you didn't actually post a link to the video you've mentioned.

[James Diggs]

One thing I know about "contemplative/emerging spirituality", it's not what "the lighthouse" says it is. These "discernment sites" remind me of those that came to accuse Jesus in Mark 14:58, "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man." Even if they get anywhere in the ball park with the quote (which they often don't or they twist it) they completely miss the implication of what was really being said.

[Todd Erickson]

Looks like one of Lighthouse's major sources is Ray Yungen, who is the enemy of everything contemplative, mystic, or eastern. He's the guy who accused Brennan Manning of being a mystic heretic because he teaches Centering prayer, and because he believes that silence is anti-God, despite the many verses supporting it. More on one of his recent books, and his overall arguments:

http://www.theooze.com/articles/article.cfm?id=1663

Ray is also one of the major sources quoted by the Concerned Nazarenes about the faults of the emerging movement:

http://nazarenepsalm113.wordpress.co...e-oppenheimer/

[Shea Zellweger]

Kelly,
First and foremost I would not trust the Lighthouse, as they are a publishing group designed specifically to combat what they see as being wrong in the emerging/contemplative movement.With so clear an agenda, I'd be shocked to read anything positive on their site.
Secondly, their problems with Merton are based more in the fact that he was a Catholic than anything else. Yes, he spent time studying Buddhists, and he even realized that they were achieving some things in their religion that we'd neglected in our own- in particular, the mysteries of the universe (or of God, since that's what Merton's own contemplation was about).
Third, Dr. McDaniel's lecture was, to me, challenging to say the least. It's from about 4 years ago at this point, but from what I saw (which I believe was the whole lecture and Q/A session, but I could be wrong), it would appear that McDaniel was not just invited in to speak without any sort of regulation. One of the people who asked a question was Gene Schandorff, chaplain of NNU. I also saw a letter written by the University president (sorry, I don't have a link) where he explained that the video did not capture a portion of the introduction where students were essentially warned that NNU did not necessarily endorse everything Dr. McDaniel said. He appears to be more inclusive than most, but at the end of the day, he made some great points- first, that it is possible that someone could "follow Christ" without "knowing Jesus" (I think this has been well discussed on the universalism thread). Second, he insisted on several occasions that he did not know who was "in" or "out," but that he hoped everyone was "in" (can't fault him there). Third, he stated that there is no truth, no practice, nothing good that cannot be found in the whole of Christian Tradition, but that perhaps here and now there are people of other faiths who are doing a better job of upholding certain truths/practices than we are as Christians, and I think he was right there as well.

[Dale Cozby]

My first thought.....

"Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." - Gamaliel

[Hans Deventer]

I don't think I've said it lately, but it's time to repeat it: I love NazNet.

[Daniel Hamlin]

But then, most Modernists refuse to acknowledge that Christianity actually has Eastern origins, as well.

That's the part I find funny in a sad-sort-of-way. My understanding is that Judaism is an Eastern religion, Christianity's roots are in Judaism. Wouldn't we expect at least some Eastern practices/ways of thinking to be in Christianity?

I'm of the opinion that the emphasis on "proving" the Bible according to Western standards of "Truth", even though most of it is written from an Eastern understanding, may be detrimental in the long run.

[Randy Wise]

As I view the thread the replies used reasoning, (not hate or harm), to rebuke what they see as wrong teaching as compared to "what is written" , which very much centers on the person of Jesus. Such reasoning with those outside the faith, (to me) is a work of love.

Randy

[James Diggs]

My first thought.....

"Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." - Gamaliel

Dale, you know I once suggested this verse to a "Concerned Nazarene" (who is informed by Lighthouse); he said they could find more verses to justify what they were doing so this verse did not apply.