What's your opinion on celebrating before a touchdown?

[Shea Zellweger]

Yes, this is another Eagles-inspired thread. Sorry.

DeSean Jackson has celebrated his last two TDs before crossing the goal line. In week 14, he stopped before the goal line, turned around, and fell backward. This was apparently an attempt to avoid the penalty for "going to the ground in celebration," based on the fact that diving into the endzone is legal. He was flagged for it anyway, but probably should not have been. In week 15, he high-stepped alongside the endzone before crossing the goal-line. It's possible he was unaware (he often is) and thought he was running the clock out, but he was still showboating his way along. The Eagles ran onto the field before he crossed the goal line, and it could've resulted in a penalty, but I digress...

There's been speculation about Jackson's motives, but it seems like he's doing his celebrating pre-TD in order to avoid the flags for illegal celebration. Is this unsportsmanlike, or would other receivers (like TO or Ochocinco) benefit from taking a page out of DJ's book?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

I think all the celebrating is unprofessional and somewhat juvenile. That's true before and after a TD. These people are professionals making millions of dollars. Touchdowns are what they're paid and trained to do. They ought to behave as though they've been in the end zone before and intend to be there again...soon!

Jackson wouldn't like me as a coach. Not only would he see yellow flags, he'd see me, in his face, telling him he's a professional and insisting he act like one.

[Benjamin Burch]

I think all the celebrating is unprofessional and somewhat juvenile. That's true before and after a TD. These people are professionals making millions of dollars. Touchdowns are what they're paid and trained to do. They ought to behave as though they've been in the end zone before and intend to be there again...soon!

Jackson wouldn't like me as a coach. Not only would he see yellow flags, he'd see me, in his face, telling him he's a professional and insisting he act like one.

They're also professional entertainers. So entertaining is part of what these guys attempt to do. Some of them take that a lot farther than others.

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I think I could summarize to say that I like unplanned team celebrations but don't like individual celebrations. The antics of T.O., Ochocinco, Jackson, Aaron Hernandez, etc. are too much. But I don't mind seeing a team celebrate together, as long as it's not excessive, and just among themselves (not directed at the other team).

[Tinker Boyd]

Touchdowns are what they're paid and trained to do. They ought to behave as though they've been in the end zone before and intend to be there again...soon!

If they didn't get excited about what they are doing, what's the point? I don't mind the celebrating at all. It gets the crowd excited which gets the team excited. However, I think celebrating BEFORE the TD is reckless and stupid. I've seen it backfire more than once and that isn't fair to the team or the fans.

[Bob Hunter]

DeSean Jackson admitted he is trying to bring an element of entertainment to bear. He says the fans deserve it. I don't like pre or post touchdown stunts myself.

I told my son, who is starting fullback for his Youth Football team, that I would personally take him out of a game if he did anything unsportsmen like in the the endzone after a TD. In many ways, NFL players are setting a bad example for younger fans.

[Shea Zellweger]

I think all the celebrating is unprofessional and somewhat juvenile. That's true before and after a TD. These people are professionals making millions of dollars. Touchdowns are what they're paid and trained to do. They ought to behave as though they've been in the end zone before and intend to be there again...soon!

Jackson wouldn't like me as a coach. Not only would he see yellow flags, he'd see me, in his face, telling him he's a professional and insisting he act like one.

You and Roger Goodell would get along great.

DeSean Jackson admitted he is trying to bring an element of entertainment to bear. He says the fans deserve it. I don't like pre or post touchdown stunts myself.

I told my son, who is starting fullback for his Youth Football team, that I would personally take him out of a game if he did anything unsportsmen like in the the endzone after a TD. In many ways, NFL players are setting a bad example for younger fans.

What, in your (and Scott's) opinion is unsportsmanlike about celebrating a TD? Until 2006, there was no "excessive celebration" rule and many people, myself included, would rather there still weren't one. High-stepping, running backward, diving into the endzone, spiking the ball, "dunking" on the goalpoast, and variations on "the Lambeau leap" are all still completely legal- is there something more unsportsmanlike about doing a frog-splash after scoring than before? Are there acceptable forms of celebration for you two, or is it all unsportsmanlike?

[John Brickley]

For me I think there comes a point when a player should begin acting as if he has done this before. Now I don't have a problem with an occasional celebration when it is a significant moment or a significant game, but pulling some kind of a stunt every time is a bit much. Now having said that every time you run back a punt or a kickoff it is a special achievement and so I understand having a bit more excitement, but lets act like you have been there before. I also think the celebration before is somewhat akin to a slugger standing at home plate and admiring his own home run before he trots the bases. It is rubbing it into the other team and kind of a slap in the face.

However, I also think the No Fun League goes way too far in the penalties and has taken a lot of the joy out of the game. Part of the appeal of football has been its colorful characters and when you handcuff them the whole experience looses something. It is after all a game, and they should be having fun. Sometimes Roger Goodell just needs to hear those immortal words of one of the funniest colorful characters in the league. Child please...

[Bob Hunter]

You and Roger Goodell would get along great.




What, in your (and Scott's) opinion is unsportsmanlike about celebrating a TD? Until 2006, there was no "excessive celebration" rule and many people, myself included, would rather there still weren't one. High-stepping, running backward, diving into the endzone, spiking the ball, "dunking" on the goalpoast, and variations on "the Lambeau leap" are all still completely legal- is there something more unsportsmanlike about doing a frog-splash after scoring than before? Are there acceptable forms of celebration for you two, or is it all unsportsmanlike?

Shea,

Yeah, I view the standard goal line techniques such as high stepping, diving, leaping, hurdling, etc. as legitimate. I think it goes over the top when players jump into the stands, dunk footballs, put on showy endzone gyrations, etc. I'm not even opposed to throwing the ball into the stands, that should be expected (just don't throw a helmet into the stands!). Again, I'm not wanting to sound prudish here, I just think the DeSean Jackson antics are pushing it. For example, Chris Johnson stopped on the Dallas Star in the Endzone of Dallas's new stadium after a TD. That was kinda tasteless if you ask me. Again, I'm prolly sounding prudish here, and this is all just my opinion.

[Shea Zellweger]

For me I think there comes a point when a player should begin acting as if he has done this before. Now I don't have a problem with an occasional celebration when it is a significant moment or a significant game, but pulling some kind of a stunt every time is a bit much.

So on the two occasions I highlighted, you would have no problem with it? The first was a 91 yard TD reception (longest of his career) which put the Eagles in front of the Cowboys for good. The second was the dramatic conclusion of what was, IMO, the most exciting comeback of the season- as time ran out.

I also think the celebration before is somewhat akin to a slugger standing at home plate and admiring his own home run before he trots the bases. It is rubbing it into the other team and kind of a slap in the face.

I disagree, for two reasons.
First, a slugger who admires his own home run sometimes misjudges the distance, and has to scramble to reach first after the ball bounces off the green monster into the glove of a left fielder with a canon (not naming any names on that one...). A player realizing there is literally nobody near him and doing something for the final 5 yards (or, in the case of the two I mentioned, 5 inches) knows for certain that he has scored.
Second, the slugger is allowed to celebrate after the ball clears the fence. He can pump his arms and make whatever gestures he likes all the way around the bases. If it's a walkoff home run, players can- and do- come off the bench to meet him at home plate, run alongside him from 3rd to home, jump up and down, dance, or do whatever else they might like. For the football player, as soon as he enters the endzone, he has about 3 choices (4 if he plays at Green Bay)- spike the ball, dunk the ball, or kneel and cross himself. Just about anything else is likely to draw a flag, especially if it involves a teammate.

[Shea Zellweger]

Shea,

Yeah, I view the standard goal line techniques such as high stepping, diving, leaping, hurdling, etc. as legitimate. I think it goes over the top when players jump into the stands, dunk footballs, put on showy endzone gyrations, etc. I'm not even opposed to throwing the ball into the stands, that should be expected (just don't throw a helmet into the stands!). Again, I'm not wanting to sound prudish here, I just think the DeSean Jackson antics are pushing it. For example, Chris Johnson stopped on the Dallas Star in the Endzone of Dallas's new stadium after a TD. That was kinda tasteless if you ask me. Again, I'm prolly sounding prudish here, and this is all just my opinion.

Your opinion is a valid one, and not prudish. I do think CJ2K's antics in Dallas were disrespectful (as were TO's when he did the same thing while playing for the 49ers), but that has more to do with etiquette than with the celebration itself- you don't desecrate another team's stuff. The "use of prop" rules make sense as well. But could you- or anyone else- explain to me the difference between a guy high-stepping for 5 yards versus a guy running parallel to the goal line? How about the difference between diving forward into the endzone or falling backward into it? Or throwing the ball into the stands vs. dunking it over the goalpost? IMO, penalties for props and for taunting make perfect sense- I'm just trying to figure out what the rationale is between the "accepted" versions of individual celebration and the "disallowed" kind.

[John Brickley]

So on the two occasions I highlighted, you would have no problem with it? The first was a 91 yard TD reception (longest of his career) which put the Eagles in front of the Cowboys for good. The second was the dramatic conclusion of what was, IMO, the most exciting comeback of the season- as time ran out.



I disagree, for two reasons.
First, a slugger who admires his own home run sometimes misjudges the distance, and has to scramble to reach first after the ball bounces off the green monster into the glove of a left fielder with a canon (not naming any names on that one...). A player realizing there is literally nobody near him and doing something for the final 5 yards (or, in the case of the two I mentioned, 5 inches) knows for certain that he has scored.
Second, the slugger is allowed to celebrate after the ball clears the fence. He can pump his arms and make whatever gestures he likes all the way around the bases. If it's a walkoff home run, players can- and do- come off the bench to meet him at home plate, run alongside him from 3rd to home, jump up and down, dance, or do whatever else they might like. For the football player, as soon as he enters the endzone, he has about 3 choices (4 if he plays at Green Bay)- spike the ball, dunk the ball, or kneel and cross himself. Just about anything else is likely to draw a flag, especially if it involves a teammate.

I don't have a problem with celebration in those 2 instances, I do have a bit of problem with celebrating before you score. I think it is kind of rubbing it into the opposing team. Just run in, then celebrate what you have just done. To run in backwards is saying to the other team "I am so much better than you, I can run this thing in backwards and you still can't stop me." It is slightly disrespectful.

[Shea Zellweger]

I don't have a problem with celebration in those 2 instances, I do have a bit of problem with celebrating before you score. I think it is kind of rubbing it into the opposing team. Just run in, then celebrate what you have just done. To run in backwards is saying to the other team "I am so much better than you, I can run this thing in backwards and you still can't stop me." It is slightly disrespectful.

But the issue seems to be that they can't celebrate what they've "just done." Spiking the ball would (IMHO) be an extreme understatement in that situation. The obvious solution is to modify some of the excessive celebration rules, but until that happens...

[Bob Hunter]

Your opinion is a valid one, and not prudish. I do think CJ2K's antics in Dallas were disrespectful (as were TO's when he did the same thing while playing for the 49ers), but that has more to do with etiquette than with the celebration itself- you don't desecrate another team's stuff. The "use of prop" rules make sense as well. But could you- or anyone else- explain to me the difference between a guy high-stepping for 5 yards versus a guy running parallel to the goal line? How about the difference between diving forward into the endzone or falling backward into it? Or throwing the ball into the stands vs. dunking it over the goalpost? IMO, penalties for props and for taunting make perfect sense- I'm just trying to figure out what the rationale is between the "accepted" versions of individual celebration and the "disallowed" kind.

I think you have a valid point, I'm not sure that a clear line can be drawn and I'm probably subjective in how I determine what is okay and not okay. There is a subjective element here that is going to make it really difficult to determine what is acceptable and what is not. The refs are subjective too in how they interpret the rules. For example, an NCAA ref penalized an Ohio State player for flaunting the "O" with his hands after a TD. Well, Oregon Duck players do the same "O" to little consequence! Go figure...

[Kevin Rector]

I think it's great when a player is excited about doing well. Playing hard and being happy upon success are important parts of the game. However, there does come a point when it's just bad sportsmanship. Like obscenity I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

They're also professional entertainers. So entertaining is part of what these guys attempt to do. Some of them take that a lot farther than others.

The ones who are being paid to dance and do little routines are on the sidelines - and dressed somewhat differently than the ones being paid to entertain by playing football at a professional level.

[Steven Martinez]

I have always noticed that those who claim that others should act as if they have been there before have never been there in the first place. I say let the NFL players celebrate and let the opposing team handle the punishment. They get paid to play a game and so let them have fun. Why should I scold them for living my dream?

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

All of you endzone celebration liberals make me sick. How dare you hold such an opinion! It's unAmerican and not even Wesleyan. I also think you are actually soccer fans. I can't believe you don't agree with me.

Disgusting!

(Just trying to give Shea a conflict filled thread to deal with as Host - I don't want him to feel left out from the "fun" the CE and Theology folks have).

[David Morris]

I don't have a problem with celebration in those 2 instances, I do have a bit of problem with celebrating before you score. I think it is kind of rubbing it into the opposing team. Just run in, then celebrate what you have just done. To run in backwards is saying to the other team "I am so much better than you, I can run this thing in backwards and you still can't stop me." It is slightly disrespectful.

There is however nothing better than a player who celebrates prior to the touchdown and either loses his grip on the ball or someone comes up from behind and knocks it out of his hands.

[Mike Schutz]

I am of two minds on this:

1. I dislike the celebrations, both before and after the touchdown, just as I dislike even more the celebrations after sacks, after tackles, after a pass reception.
2. I think that most of the rules against them are just as ridiculous.

(But then, I wouldn't mind going back to the days in basketball when you had to raise your hand when you were called for a foul.)

[John Brickley]

There is however nothing better than a player who celebrates prior to the touchdown and either loses his grip on the ball or someone comes up from behind and knocks it out of his hands.

Exactly, there is something we can agree on 100%. But Brady is still better than Manning.

Just kidding. Merry Christmas.

[David Morris]

Exactly, there is something we can agree on 100%. But Brady is still better than Manning.

Just kidding. Merry Christmas.

Still would imply Manning may not of been ahead of him at any point in the first place...............

:-)

Merry Christmas!

[Bill Morrison]

I never scored a touchdown so my opinion probably isn't valid. Come to think of it, I've never been paid a million dollars a year either! Maybe if I made that much money I would feel more qualified to act like a jerk every once in a while. (I hope my wife doesn't see this....I can almost hear what she would say).

BILL

[Jeremy D. Scott]

I watched my "favorite" college football team in their first bowl game (and win!) in a while yesterday (Syracuse). They were up by eight with not much time to go when Kansas State scored. KSU obviously needed to go for the two point conversion to tie. But they got a fifteen yard penalty for excessive celebration after the TD. You can see the . Now I don't watch enough college football to know if this is a regular call, but it seemed like an "excessive" call (and the commentators thought the same...though they seemed in favor of KSU the whole game). Nonetheless, no one knows if KSU would have gotten the two points without the penalty (they failed with it), but they sure would have had a better chance.

[Bill Morrison]

I watched my "favorite" college football team in their first bowl game (and win!) in a while yesterday (Syracuse). They were up by eight with not much time to go when Kansas State scored. KSU obviously needed to go for the two point conversion to tie. But they got a fifteen yard penalty for excessive celebration after the TD. You can see the . Now I don't watch enough college football to know if this is a regular call, but it seemed like an "excessive" call (and the commentators thought the same...though they seemed in favor of KSU the whole game). Nonetheless, no one knows if KSU would have gotten the two points without the penalty (they failed with it), but they sure would have had a better chance.

As a KU Jayhawk alum, I can unequivocably say that K State should be given an "excessive celebration" penalty just for showing up at a bowl game.

BILL

[James Johnson]

I agree with Bill, how could anybody question that call?

[David Morris]

I watched my "favorite" college football team in their first bowl game (and win!) in a while yesterday (Syracuse). They were up by eight with not much time to go when Kansas State scored. KSU obviously needed to go for the two point conversion to tie. But they got a fifteen yard penalty for excessive celebration after the TD. You can see the . Now I don't watch enough college football to know if this is a regular call, but it seemed like an "excessive" call (and the commentators thought the same...though they seemed in favor of KSU the whole game). Nonetheless, no one knows if KSU would have gotten the two points without the penalty (they failed with it), but they sure would have had a better chance.

As you said, no one knows if KSU would have converted the two point conversion without the penalty being enforced...but that was a very poor decision by the refs. I watched the entire Rose Bowl today, and a similar penalty could have been called 50 times. I don't think a little salute to the endzone crowd is worthy of a penalty. It was the same to me as any player who flexes his muscles after a tackle, a player signaling the first down on their own, or a player who does any number of stances in the end zone or after a big catch/run. Pretty disappointing.

[Bradley Grinnen]

i agree with mike... i can't stand seeing a celebration for a sack, first down, or the worst... a 5 yard catch shy of the first down marker.

but, i think you should be able to celebrate anyway you want to... even if it is the 'ickey shuffle' or popping the 'coconut'. i think things would pretty much run their course if players were allowed to do that. for example, a linebacker might put an extra little 'hurting' on that wide-receiver next time he came across the middle.