John 5:19

[Hans Deventer]

The other day we read this verse from a daily devotional.

Jesus said to them, ‘Very truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise.

I wonder, what did Jesus see the Father do? Jesus was proclaiming the gospel, teaching, healing. Should we conclude that is what He saw the Father do? I don't quite understand this.

And obviously, the same should go for us: do what the Father is doing. But how do we see that?

[Randy Wise]

The other day we read this verse from a daily devotional.

Jesus said to them, ‘Very truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise.

I wonder, what did Jesus see the Father do? Jesus was proclaiming the gospel, teaching, healing. Should we conclude that is what He saw the Father do? I don't quite understand this.

And obviously, the same should go for us: do what the Father is doing. But how do we see that?

Look at the Son and you will see the Father was the way I read the Lords reply to Philip.

What Jesus taught and how He acted. (set the mark)

Randy

[Hans Deventer]

Look at the Son and you will see the Father was the way I read the Lords reply to Philip.

What Jesus taught and how He acted. (set the mark)

I agree, Randy, but what did Jesus see?

[Randy Wise]

I agree, Randy, but what did Jesus see?

What He did. HA HA HA

God is Spirit so "see" may mean what God taught by the Spirit or even what He saw in scripture or maybe from memory as Jesus had a long relationship with the Father (before the world began). So I can't know.

Though we do know Jesus taught that it was the Father in Him doing His work. We also know Jesus stated the Father taught Him what and how to state things.

Maybe someone else has a better answer.

[Ryan Scott]

Bringing about the redemption of the world?

[Hans Deventer]

Bringing about the redemption of the world?

How? When I read the verse, it is almost like how He learned from Joseph to be a carpenter.

[Ryan Scott]

How? When I read the verse, it is almost like how He learned from Joseph to be a carpenter.

He's been watching the Father work for the redemption of the world since the beginning of time. I suspect his only real challenging task was to figure out how to make that happen as an individual human being. He was contextualizing divinity.

[Randy Wise]

How? When I read the verse, it is almost like how He learned from Joseph to be a carpenter.

Jesus stated several times that it was the Father in Him doing His work. Teaching Jesus what to state. Jesus stated if they couldn't believe Him then let the works He performed testify to them that the Father was in Him and He is in the Father.

Randy

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

In the strictest sense, the meaning is that Jesus sees his Father working even on the Sabbath, and, therefore, that's what he is doing (v.17). The specific "work" he is doing is that of healing sickness (v.8). Then, later in the debate Jesus clarifies that the Father raises the dead, giving life and that's just what he is doing (v.21).

So my take is that Jesus has seen the Father giving new life and that he what he is doing, even on the Sabbath.

[Larry Parsons]

The other day we read this verse from a daily devotional.

Jesus said to them, ‘Very truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise.

I wonder, what did Jesus see the Father do? Jesus was proclaiming the gospel, teaching, healing. Should we conclude that is what He saw the Father do? I don't quite understand this.

And obviously, the same should go for us: do what the Father is doing. But how do we see that?

Hans, maybe we should read the verse this way "Jesus said to them.................but only what he understand what the Father is doing... and the son does understands what the Father is doing. It not something that He would see with the Nake eye but with his understanding. I believe Jesus understood what the Father wanted and that was Jesus aim also and that was to started a new group of people that would become God's people in the New Covenant.
Thanks
larry

[Hans Deventer]

I may not have been clear enough, my apologies. Perhaps I should focus. When I read in the Gospels about what Jesus did, I see Him preach, teach, hang out with people and especially, heal. Ryan, I agree that his actions are redemptive but my problem is that in Jesus, I see God's redemption but perhaps most strongly, His compassion at work in His healings. (I agree with your remark, Scott.) Where or how do I see God's compassion at work, directly, before or after Jesus? A rare occurrence here or there, but nothing like what He was doing in those few years.

I'm convinced that if Jesus were around, He'd be healing people as much as He did back then. People would just have had to touch His garment, or just ask. I do not see the Father doing that, either before or after Jesus' ministry on earth. (I know that it doesn't produce faith much, but that's exactly the point, He did it anyway, even knowing the result would be minimal, out of sheer compassion)

So I wonder, what did He see that I do not see?

This is especially important because we obviously are to follow Jesus. Where do I see the Father work like that? Even a guy here in the Netherlands with a healing ministry has thousands at each service, but only few, very few, find healing. This was not so with Jesus.

Luke 9.11: When the crowds found out about it, they followed him; and he welcomed them, and spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who needed to be cured.

[Randy Wise]

I may not have been clear enough, my apologies. Perhaps I should focus. When I read in the Gospels about what Jesus did, I see Him preach, teach, hang out with people and especially, heal. Ryan, I agree that his actions are redemptive but my problem is that in Jesus, I see God's redemption but perhaps most strongly, His compassion at work in His healings. (I agree with your remark, Scott.) Where or how do I see God's compassion at work, directly, before or after Jesus? A rare occurrence here or there, but nothing like what He was doing in those few years.

I'm convinced that if Jesus were around, He'd be healing people as much as He did back then. People would just have had to touch His garment, or just ask. I do not see the Father doing that, either before or after Jesus' ministry on earth. (I know that it doesn't produce faith much, but that's exactly the point, He did it anyway, even knowing the result would be minimal, out of sheer compassion)

So I wonder, what did He see that I do not see?

This is especially important because we obviously are to follow Jesus. Where do I see the Father work like that? Even a guy here in the Netherlands with a healing ministry has thousands at each service, but only few, very few, find healing. This was not so with Jesus.

Luke 9.11: When the crowds found out about it, they followed him; and he welcomed them, and spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who needed to be cured.

John, the immerser knew Jesus was from above and the one who would take away the sins of the world. John also knew that Jesus baptized by the Holy Spirit. What did he see?

R.

[Ryan Scott]

I may not have been clear enough, my apologies. Perhaps I should focus. When I read in the Gospels about what Jesus did, I see Him preach, teach, hang out with people and especially, heal. Ryan, I agree that his actions are redemptive but my problem is that in Jesus, I see God's redemption but perhaps most strongly, His compassion at work in His healings. (I agree with your remark, Scott.) Where or how do I see God's compassion at work, directly, before or after Jesus? A rare occurrence here or there, but nothing like what He was doing in those few years.

I'm convinced that if Jesus were around, He'd be healing people as much as He did back then. People would just have had to touch His garment, or just ask. I do not see the Father doing that, either before or after Jesus' ministry on earth. (I know that it doesn't produce faith much, but that's exactly the point, He did it anyway, even knowing the result would be minimal, out of sheer compassion)

So I wonder, what did He see that I do not see?

This is especially important because we obviously are to follow Jesus. Where do I see the Father work like that? Even a guy here in the Netherlands with a healing ministry has thousands at each service, but only few, very few, find healing. This was not so with Jesus.

Luke 9.11: When the crowds found out about it, they followed him; and he welcomed them, and spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who needed to be cured.

I guess I see that as sort of the point. When an invisible God does something miraculous in our world, it takes great faith to believe. When someone standing right in front of you does it, it's a bit easier. Perhaps our lesson here is that God's decision to use humans to further the redemption of the world is actually a smart idea. If people see us doing the things Jesus does (and indeed even greater things than these) they might be persuaded to respond to the call of the Spirit in their lives?

I'm kind of hung up on the translation of actions from deity to humanity, but that just seems like where this reference is going.

[Larry Parsons]

I may not have been clear enough, my apologies. Perhaps I should focus. When I read in the Gospels about what Jesus did, I see Him preach, teach, hang out with people and especially, heal. Ryan, I agree that his actions are redemptive but my problem is that in Jesus, I see God's redemption but perhaps most strongly, His compassion at work in His healings. (I agree with your remark, Scott.) Where or how do I see God's compassion at work, directly, before or after Jesus? A rare occurrence here or there, but nothing like what He was doing in those few years.

I'm convinced that if Jesus were around, He'd be healing people as much as He did back then. People would just have had to touch His garment, or just ask. I do not see the Father doing that, either before or after Jesus' ministry on earth. (I know that it doesn't produce faith much, but that's exactly the point, He did it anyway, even knowing the result would be minimal, out of sheer compassion)

So I wonder, what did He see that I do not see?

This is especially important because we obviously are to follow Jesus. Where do I see the Father work like that? Even a guy here in the Netherlands with a healing ministry has thousands at each service, but only few, very few, find healing. This was not so with Jesus.

Luke 9.11: When the crowds found out about it, they followed him; and he welcomed them, and spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who needed to be cured.

Hans, I’m not that convinced that Jesus would be healing anyone as he did 2000 years ago and the only reason he was healing a few people then was to prove who He was. (The promise Messiah) The Jewish people were expecting their Messiah to perform miracles of healing see Isa.42:7 Today, this doesn’t have to be done to prove who he was his resurrection from the grave is our prove that he is the Son of Man.
Thanks
Larry

[John Reilly]

Hi Hans, Interesting thoughts and question. "So I wonder, what did He see that I do not see?"

My first thought to consider is the hypostatic union of Jesus being two natures in one person. So of course Jesus sees the Father uniquely in that He is the Father. He can only do what the Father does because He is the Father.

[Hans Deventer]

Hans, I’m not that convinced that Jesus would be healing anyone as he did 2000 years ago and the only reason he was healing a few people then was to prove who He was. (The promise Messiah) The Jewish people were expecting their Messiah to perform miracles of healing see Isa.42:7 Today, this doesn’t have to be done to prove who he was his resurrection from the grave is our prove that he is the Son of Man.

Larry, I believe Jesus healed (not a few but all who came to him) out of love and compassion.

[Hans Deventer]

Hi Hans, Interesting thoughts and question. "So I wonder, what did He see that I do not see?"

My first thought to consider is the hypostatic union of Jesus being two natures in one person. So of course Jesus sees the Father uniquely in that He is the Father. He can only do what the Father does because He is the Father.

Sure. Still the question remains, what did He see? Sorry for being so stubborn!

[Rich Schmidt]

Hi Hans, Interesting thoughts and question. "So I wonder, what did He see that I do not see?"

My first thought to consider is the hypostatic union of Jesus being two natures in one person. So of course Jesus sees the Father uniquely in that He is the Father. He can only do what the Father does because He is the Father.

Actually, John, that's incorrect. The Son is not the Father. The Father is not the Son. Etc. They are distinct persons. You might want to brush up on the Athanasian Creed.

[John Reilly]

Hi Rick, Thanks. I agree with you. I should havve used more words to express my thought.

The Confession of Chalcedon provides a clear statement on the human and divine nature of Christ:

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter) the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεὸν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

[Ryan Scott]

Sure. Still the question remains, what did He see? Sorry for being so stubborn!

If we're really being literal here, Jesus didn't see anything. Unless we're assuming some spiritual sight into what our invisible God is doing in the world. If that's the case, then I think my previous answers cover things.

I'm not sure I know exactly what you're looking for here.

[Larry Parsons]

Larry, I believe Jesus healed (not a few but all who came to him) out of love and compassion.

That maybe true but did Jesus heal anyone who could have been heal with a dose of some old fashion first century medicine. In other words He only heal those who was well outside of the first century medicine treatment of His day. Today our medicine is so far advance that Christ would have few people who would try to touch Him to be heal. Personal I'm not much of a fan of faith healing personal because I have never seen it works I have seen a lot of people comes to the altar for healing and I have heard a lot people claim to be heal but when the next altar call came alone they were right back praying for healing. What happen? Didn't anyone have any faith? May the gift of healing is one those gift that has cease and it is no longer needed in our time.
Thanks
Larry

[Hans Deventer]

If we're really being literal here, Jesus didn't see anything. Unless we're assuming some spiritual sight into what our invisible God is doing in the world. If that's the case, then I think my previous answers cover things.

I'm not sure I know exactly what you're looking for here.

I guess so. I'm sorry, I feel very inadequate in explaining my question

[John Reilly]

Jesus sees the eternal vision and mission of God, the missio Dei. Jesus saw the work of the Father as his own. In his divine essence Jesus was and is one with the Father and understood the eternal purpose of creation and its redemption. The work of Jesus while on earth in bodily form during his three year ministry represents and points to the ongoing missio Dei. Jesus was and is intimately connected to the unity and love of the Godhead.

[Rich Schmidt]

Hi Rick, Thanks. I agree with you.

You're welcome, Josh.

[John Reilly]

You're welcome, Josh.

Sorry for me quick glance typo!
Rich is to Rick as John is to Josh?

[Cynthia Prentice]

Hi Hans,

It is an absolute given that Jesus was compassionate but what if that was not the main purpose of Jesus healing? Spiritual truths communicated in concrete images permeate the Old Testament, the text of the first century Jew. Spiritual truths communicated in concrete images permeate the teachings of Jesus and they also permeate the actions of Jesus.

Jesus came to a people who could see but not see (understand) and hear but not hear (understand). To see and see and to hear and hear is a Hebrew idiom for understand. What if Jesus opened the eyes of the physically blind so that people would know and believe that he could open their spiritual eyes to the Kingdom of God. What if he opened physically deaf ears so that they would believe he could open their spiritually deaf ears and they could understand the truth of the Kingdom of God.

These living word pictures are all over the place when it comes to Jesus' actions. Just a few examples... Jesus healed a lame man and told him to get up, and sent him off under his own power, to take up his mat and go home, so that the people would believe that Jesus had the power to forgive (Greek word for forgive means to send off and away). Jesus calmed the storm so that his disciples would believe he was truly God in human flesh (an amazing parallel to Psalm 107:26-30) and also that he had power over Hades. No wonder their mouths dropped open the time he came walking across the tops of the waves (parallel to Job 9:8) and they said this guy really is the Son of God. When he invited everyone who was thirsty to come to him...he was at a festival where water was the main focus of the day. When he said he was the light of the world he was at a festival with mammoth menorahs whose light illuminated the entire city. This practice of communicating spiritual truth in concrete word pictures is the primary method of communicating truth in most of the Bible.

It might be easy to say that if that is what Jesus was communicating, why didn't he just say so. Well, I think he did say it...he screamed it...in a very Eastern/Jewish/Hebrew way.

Understanding the possibility of Jesus communicating spiritual truth through physical healing also helps me to understand why physical healing is not one of our "guaranteed rights" as believers. Jesus' actions communicated a spiritual truth that would be worked in my heart. The eyes of my heart would be opened so that I could understand his truth and bring the Kingdom of God to those around me. When the eyes of our hearts (for Jews heart/mind were one concept) are opened we can be poor but rich, hungry but full, poor in spirit but "seeing" God. He is much more concerned about my figurative eyes, the eyes of my heart, than my physical eyes. I am absolutely not saying that I do not believe that God cannot physically heal or that he doesn't physically heal in the here and now. I am just saying that spiritual blindness is much worse than physical blindness. He wants us to see and "see" and to hear and "hear". I will one day have a resurrected body...my physical needs will ultimately be met whether I am healed right now or whether, like Lazarus in Lazarus and the Rich Man, it comes later. But, knowing the Father...hearing and understanding...seeing and truly seeing how he wants me to bring the Kingdom of God to those around me...well I need to be healed of my spiritual blindness right now...ASAP! And Jesus came so that my eyes could be opened.

So Jesus has "seen", (has an intimate, knowing, understanding) the Father open blind eyes, open deaf ears, make the lame to walk...because the Father opens spiritually blind eyes and the Father opens spiritually deaf ears. The Father strengthens spiritually weak "ankles and knees" so that people can walk His path and the Father sets the figurative spiritual "prisoner" free. Jesus is living out what he sees the Father do...and he is doing it in a way that communicates...illustrates...and helps the people to understand that the one who can do this for them physically...can most certainly do it for them spiritually.

Blessings,

Cynthia

edited to add: Around Isaiah chapter 41/42 we are plunged into the world of figurative seeing/blindness, hearing/deafness...and it is woven through almost all the chapters (in Isaiah) that follow.

[Hans Deventer]

Matt 9:35 Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. 36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.

Matt 14:14 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them and healed their sick.

Matt 20:29 As Jesus and his disciples were leaving Jericho, a large crowd followed him. 30 Two blind men were sitting by the roadside, and when they heard that Jesus was going by, they shouted, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on us!” 31 The crowd rebuked them and told them to be quiet, but they shouted all the louder, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on us!” 32 Jesus stopped and called them. “What do you want me to do for you?” he asked. 33 “Lord,” they answered, “we want our sight.” 34 Jesus had compassion on them and touched their eyes. Immediately they received their sight and followed him.

Mark 1:40-41 A leper came to him begging him, and kneeling he said to him, ‘If you choose, you can make me clean.’ 41 Moved with pity, Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, and said to him, ‘I do choose. Be made clean!’

Mark 6:34 As he went ashore, he saw a great crowd; and he had compassion for them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd; and he began to teach them many things.

Luke 7:11 Soon afterwards he went to a town called Nain, and his disciples and a large crowd went with him. 12 As he approached the gate of the town, a man who had died was being carried out. He was his mother’s only son, and she was a widow; and with her was a large crowd from the town. 13When the Lord saw her, he had compassion for her and said to her, ‘Do not weep.’ 14 Then he came forward and touched the bier, and the bearers stood still. And he said, ‘Young man, I say to you, rise!’



I rest my case.

[Cynthia Prentice]

I absolutely agree with you! I don't see it as an either/or...but as a both are true. It is outside the box of our Western/Greek thinking...but very consistent with how truth is communicated in an eastern style.

[Hans Deventer]

I absolutely agree with you! I don't see it as an either/or...but as a both are true. It is outside the box of our Western/Greek thinking...but very consistent with how truth is communicated in an eastern style.

But then I still don't understand what Jesus saw the Father do in this area. How was God the Father bringing healing as Jesus did? And how has He been doing that since? Don't get me wrong! I'm not so hang up on healing, I fully understand that most who were healed, yelled "crucify him" when the time came. But it seems to have been a natural reaction of Jesus to do this, and I believe it is in line with who God is. But where can I see it? Why don't we see much of it before Christ, or after?

Jesus is God. God is like Jesus. I believe it! But I have to admit I still struggle to see it. Apparently, the Lord saw what I do not (which can hardly be surprising, but still, one can ask, right?)

[Cynthia Prentice]

But then I still don't understand what Jesus saw the Father do in this area. How was God the Father bringing healing as Jesus did? And how has He been doing that since? Don't get me wrong! I'm not so hang up on healing, I fully understand that most who were healed, yelled "crucify him" when the time came. But it seems to have been a natural reaction of Jesus to do this, and I believe it is in line with who God is. But where can I see it? Why don't we see much of it before Christ, or after?

Jesus is God. God is like Jesus. I believe it! But I have to admit I still struggle to see it. Apparently, the Lord saw what I do not (which can hardly be surprising, but still, one can ask, right?)

I understand what you are saying and I truly understand that you are not hung up on healing. You and I have posted and commented enough that I believe we have similar views on healing. I'm going to ponder your question. And thank you for not letting go of the question...because I truly love a good question. Hans...in times of good discussion I wish you and I were in the same time zone. I'll join back in tomorrow.

Blessings to you my friend,

Cynthia

[Randy Wise]

But then I still don't understand what Jesus saw the Father do in this area. How was God the Father bringing healing as Jesus did? And how has He been doing that since? Don't get me wrong! I'm not so hang up on healing, I fully understand that most who were healed, yelled "crucify him" when the time came. But it seems to have been a natural reaction of Jesus to do this, and I believe it is in line with who God is. But where can I see it? Why don't we see much of it before Christ, or after?

Jesus is God. God is like Jesus. I believe it! But I have to admit I still struggle to see it. Apparently, the Lord saw what I do not (which can hardly be surprising, but still, one can ask, right?)

I still don't understand your dilemma in this. Jesus had authority to state even "pick up your mat and walk" and "Lazarus come forth" If I told someone "this is what I see" that doesn't necessarily mean I a speaking of a visual witness. Likewise when Jesus spoke of the blind following the blind He wasn't speaking of literal blindness.

One could state Jesus saw this about Himself.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

Randy

[Ryan Scott]

But then I still don't understand what Jesus saw the Father do in this area. How was God the Father bringing healing as Jesus did? And how has He been doing that since? Don't get me wrong! I'm not so hang up on healing, I fully understand that most who were healed, yelled "crucify him" when the time came. But it seems to have been a natural reaction of Jesus to do this, and I believe it is in line with who God is. But where can I see it? Why don't we see much of it before Christ, or after?

Jesus is God. God is like Jesus. I believe it! But I have to admit I still struggle to see it. Apparently, the Lord saw what I do not (which can hardly be surprising, but still, one can ask, right?)

I believe the Father has been and continues to create. I also believe the Father uses existing processes and methods to do so. I don't think we got here by God zapping a finger and us instantly appearing. Although, when Jesus was around, things like bread and fish seemed to show up that way.

That being said, people were healed before Christ and they've been healed after Christ - many in miraculous ways. It doesn't always happen at the snap of a finger (although there are evidences of that out there), but it does happen through the processes and systems God has already established.

To me those seem parallel. Perhaps God in human form worked a bit more directly that God who works indirectly through created systems?

[Hans Deventer]

Perhaps God in human form worked a bit more directly that God who works indirectly through created systems?

Ok, that is an answer I can relate to. Thanks, Ryan. This might indeed the direction my thinking needs to go. It cannot be that Jesus is different in intention, love, compassion. But it might very well be that through the incarnation, God's actions through Him became both more limited (in time and place) and more direct.

[Steven Martinez]

Ok, that is an answer I can relate to. Thanks, Ryan. This might indeed the direction my thinking needs to go. It cannot be that Jesus is different in intention, love, compassion. But it might very well be that through the incarnation, God's actions through Him became both more limited (in time and place) and more direct.

I have been chewing on this for the weekend. It seems like every thought I come to is the Scandal of Particularity. Jesus being in a particular location at a particular time increases the visible acts of God. I still believe that God heals today but it does seem that the greater amount of healing and miracles work out through systemic methods. For example, I truly believe that God has healed millions year after year by the use of modern medicine or the countless numbers who are saved by the miraculous giving of others to build a well.
To me the compassion we see in Jesus results in the first temptation to turn stones into bread. It is more than to just feed Himself but to feed the multitudes. To be the physical provider for all of those who suffered. I think it is through these passages that we see the compassion and love that God has for. To allow us to not just see the Righteous Judge but the true Abba who loves His children. I guess the words of Jesus that started this thread give me hope that God truly cares for us in all areas of our being.

[Larry Parsons]

That maybe true but did Jesus heal anyone who could have been heal with a dose of some old fashion first century medicine. In other words He only heal those who was well outside of the first century medicine treatment of His day. Today our medicine is so far advance that Christ would have few people who would try to touch Him to be heal. Personal I'm not much of a fan of faith healing personal because I have never seen it works I have seen a lot of people comes to the altar for healing and I have heard a lot people claim to be heal but when the next altar call came alone they were right back praying for healing. What happen? Didn't anyone have any faith? May the gift of healing is one those gift that has cease and it is no longer needed in our time.
Thanks
Larry

I would like to do little back tracking here if you don't mind. Tonight at dinner table Judy and i was talking about this verse and I told her what i said above and she had to remind of a healing of good friend of our who was heal of MS complete but at the same time God didn't heal him of his heart problem He (God) is allowing the Drs. to do thier Job. I now remember another heal that I believe was from God. We were in class and one our Lutheran brother request prayer for his little daughter that was having a operation that morning. We all got down on our Knee beside our desk and pray late that day we learn that didn't have the operation because it was not need because God took care it. But i do believe that God made the human body to heal it self and I do believe that God uses Drs. help bring healing. At speciah time God reach down heals
Thanks
Larry

[Randy Wise]

Larry, I believe Jesus healed (not a few but all who came to him) out of love and compassion.

In addition to what you state I see Jesus had authority and when He commanded something the Holy Spirit acted even to raise one dead, which confirms that the Father was with Him and the Father had given Jesus His seal of approval. I think that's the context I see when Jesus states He can do nothing by Himself.

I think the many signs, miracles and wonders were poured out as a testimony. Something allowed in those days by God for His purposes. God draws people to the Son by His Spirit. We have the written testimony that gives the understanding of what took place and why and also of future events such as the New Jerusalem and the Resurrection.

Randy

[Larry Parsons]

Larry, I believe Jesus healed (not a few but all who came to him) out of love and compassion.

I not believe Jesus would have heal all the sick if all of Israel would have come out to him. In fact there was a time that Jesus even refuse to heal people. I believe example of this could be found in Luke 4:23-29 and what I gather here God of the Old Testament picks who he wanted to heal and from these verses it look like Jesus is following his Father step.
Thanks
Larry

[Hans Deventer]

I not believe Jesus would have heal all the sick if all of Israel would have come out to him. In fact there was a time that Jesus even refuse to heal people. I believe example of this could be found in Luke 4:23-29 and what I gather here God of the Old Testament picks who he wanted to heal and from these verses it look like Jesus is following his Father step.
Thanks
Larry

You may believe whatever you want, I believe the Scriptures that tell me something different. But I am definitely NOT entering into a discussion about this. I no longer seek to understand God.

[Randy Wise]

I not believe Jesus would have heal all the sick if all of Israel would have come out to him. In fact there was a time that Jesus even refuse to heal people. I believe example of this could be found in Luke 4:23-29 and what I gather here God of the Old Testament picks who he wanted to heal and from these verses it look like Jesus is following his Father step.
Thanks
Larry

To those that did believe and asked "if your willing" the lord replied "He was willing".

Randy

[Chris Easton]

Interesting point from Word Biblical commentary on this passage potentially being a hidden parable...

"The suggestion has been made (...)that a parable lies embedded in vv 19–20a; it depicts a son apprenticed to his father’s trade; he watches the father at work and copies everything that the father does, who in turn shows the boy all the secrets of his craft; the passage beginning at v 20b then allegorizes various elements of the picture. It is an attractive idea, but it seems to the present writer that there are too many statements in the Gospel in the same vein to make it probable. See, e.g., 8:28, spoken with reference to the prospect of the Son of Man being "lifted up": "Then you will know that I am, and that I do nothing by myself, but I speak these things just as the Father taught me." A similar claim is stated concerning Jesus saying nothing ἐξ ἑαυτοῦ, other than what the Father commands him, 12:49; and 14:10 conjoins the words and acts of Jesus as done not ἀφʼ ἑαυτοῦ, but of the Father who dwells in him. So also Jesus has not come ἀφʼ ἑαυτοῦ, but has been sent; hence he speaks and acts according to the direction of the Father who sent him, 7:28. All this suggests that vv 19–20 originate not in a generalized parable that depicts the relation of any son to his father, but in a deep consciousness of the unique relation of the Son to the Father, sent to be the instrument of God’s final purpose for humankind. So we may see v 19a as not simply an expression of the humility of Jesus; when the first clause is taken in conjunction with the second, it is recognized as an assertion of identity of action of the Son and the Father. It is this kind of action that the Son cannot do "by himself.""

The best way I can answer your question...What the Father is doing is fully seen in what the Son is doing...You mentioned the incarnation. Still amazing to me that God sent Jesus to forever make the sacrifice of being human...Even now he sits as a human being next to the throne of the Father!