which church would you choose

[Sarah Smith]

If you had to choose, would you choose a church where the Bible study is fantastic for all ages in your family but for whatever reason the worship service is untenable/unattendable for you, or a church with a fantastic worship service that offers absolutely no Bible study?

We've taken a break from "our" church to work through some burnout and seek revival. Now we are facing the decision above, and I would value your input.

[Benjamin Burch]

If you had to choose, would you choose a church where the Bible study is fantastic for all ages in your family but for whatever reason the worship service is untenable/unattendable for you, or a church with a fantastic worship service that offers absolutely no Bible study?

We've taken a break from "our" church to work through some burnout and seek revival. Now we are facing the decision above, and I would value your input.

Personally, I would try to find one where the sacraments are practiced faithfully and regularly. However, seeing as how that is not one of your options, I would choose the one with the better Bible study. Better Bible Study hopefully equals better theology. That theology will find its way into the preaching as well as the life of the community and congregation. That's the church I would pick.

[Wilson Deaton]

If you had to choose, would you choose a church where the Bible study is fantastic for all ages in your family but for whatever reason the worship service is untenable/unattendable for you, or a church with a fantastic worship service that offers absolutely no Bible study?

If the choice truly came down to those two factors, I'd go for fantastic worship. A person can do their own Bible study and even start their own small group Bible study but they really can't start their own corporate worship.

(Before everyone corrects me, I know that technically you can also start your own corporate worship. As a church planter I have done so! From a logistical/practical level, however, creating/initiating a Bible study would be much more realistic.)

Wilson

[Jim Chabot]

Of course my choice would be the church with both. Given a choice, it would be the music hands down. You used the magic word for me "unattendable" A while back, my wife and I spent over a year searching for a church, we found that so many have adopted this shallow chorus only worship style, it all seemed to be emotionally driven with no songs having any depth. Many of the worship leaders used a monkey see monkee do approach as they appeared as enthusiastic and worshipful as they could. Funny how i don't remember a thing about the preaching at most of those churches, I had tuned out before the sermon and had my sights firmly planted on the door.

[Wilson Deaton]

... this shallow chorus only worship style, ...

I'm not wanting to pick a fight here but I do want to ask: By "shallow chorus only" do you really mean "shallow chorus only" or are you using that as a synonym for "contemporary/no old-hymns?" I know the former exists but I've too often heard the latter labelled with the former.

Wilson

[Sarah Smith]

Keep the advice coming while we pray.

Jim, I hear you. The church with fantastic Bible study is one of those emotional shallow chorus type. Before I get blasted, I don't mean contemporary. There are good contemp songs, and bad old hymns. I mean shallow emotional choruses. Sometimes just the chorus of either old hymns or new ones. Very emotion driven. Makes us feel manipulated, plus the service is so long it just doesn't work with a young one.

The church with the beautiful worship service that really feeds the soul offers absolutely nothing in the way of Bible study. The pastor has stated she must "hide her intelligence" in order to be a pastor. Seems to feel we "low ones" aren't up to her standard of intelligence for Bible study.

Small town conundrum--not a lot of choices.

[Roland Hearn]

Linda, you are actually dealing with a profoundly deep and significant question that deals with the very theology of the church. Given the choices I would take the "worship service" church. A church that studies the word of God that doesn't flow into life changing worship has some significant problems to me. Having said that I would want to define the terms a little. You can't have genuine life transforming worship without deep and significant relationships being created. Significant relationships will result from transformed lives where the real issues of life are being dealt with and the worship service creates the basis from which that can happen. It won't/can't all happen there but if people are not being led toward grace that changes their dysfunctions, deals with sin, breaks down their walls and responds to pain it doesn't matter how good the service seems to be it is inadequate. However if those things are happening I can't imagine how it doesn't lead to deep and meaningful Bible study.

I have one last provocative thing to say: I am sick to death of the liturgy/traditional/contemporary debate on Naznet and I won't go there. The whole thing is asinine. Show me a church where the worship is preceding people dealing with the true issues of life and I will show you one that is worshiping correctly. Show me a church that allows its "correct" worship to be a blind for not being transformational and I will show you one that is worshiping inappropriately. Grace brings transformation. I've seen plenty of churches that do everything "right" and people smile nicely at each other and walk around with death inside.

[Mike Wooldridge]

The pastor has stated she must "hide her intelligence" in order to be a pastor. Seems to feel we "low ones" aren't up to her standard of intelligence for Bible study.

I haven't been much a part of this discussion, but a statement like that would send me right out the door.

[Dave McClung]

I would go with the one that has the great worship service, then I would vollunteer to lead a Bible Study.

[Cam Pence]

if it has to be one or the other, i would lean towards great bible study

[Ryan Plott]

If you had to choose, would you choose a church where the Bible study is fantastic for all ages in your family but for whatever reason the worship service is untenable/unattendable for you, or a church with a fantastic worship service that offers absolutely no Bible study?

We've taken a break from "our" church to work through some burnout and seek revival. Now we are facing the decision above, and I would value your input.

I see both as sacramental in nature so I do not necessarily think there is a "wrong" choice between these two. Attendance to either/or has the capability of revealing the will of God and transforming the individual and community.

The choice I would favor more would be the Bible study. It's been around longer than the type of worship service you're talking about, it will be around after this worship style is over, and since the Bible is the measure of our faith, and not format of worship, then I would pick this option. In the long run I see it as a better investment in the lives of Christians.

I think we're also asking the question of who this worship service is for. Who are we serving with our service? If it's understood as an offering to God then it needs to be fantastic, but if we're talking about what is a better investment for the church body(which I assume is the case, given the responses I have read) then Bible study is my choice.

I'll be praying for your church. There is no prayer button on this forum so I'll just thank you instead.

[David Graham]

I can see the arguements of both sides; yes we need good teaching, and yes we need inspirational worship, and yes we indeed have a responsibility to play our part in contributing to and receiving from these. At different times my family and I have been in similar situations to what Linda has described, and were very tempted to "walk away". But we decided to stay and try and make things "better." The bible study was shallow, but I made a "nuisance" of myself by asking deeper questions and thus the leader had to do more research and the quality of the bible studies improved over time. Likewise with worship, my wife and I made suggestions (big mistake because I was then made the worship leader) and I believe from the feedback we received the "quality" of worship also improved. This wasn't just because wer introduced some contemporary songs into the worship, but because we took the "business" of inspiring worship seriously and we were well prepared and "prayed up"!

If God has promised to be in the midst of every gathering of his people, than potentially every service can be meaningful and every bible study can nourish our minds and souls. The onus however, is upon us to "connect" with God.

Blessings,
Dave

[Ryan Plott]

What just occurred to me is that this may be a question that is generationally impacted.

Older members of the congregation have probably heard 1000+ sermons easily in their lifetime. They know the story of Christianity, they've read the Bible their entire lives, and now they just want to worship and express their love to God. Younger members(like myself) know we don't know enough so we want to roll up our sleeves and work with the text. If this idea has some merit then that could be something to take into consideration when making this decision.


Just a thought. I could be way off and would appreciate some feedback on this idea.

[David Graham]

SOme of the folks of my congregations felt this way when I first came to them...... "they've heard it 'all' before" and they've certainly "done their bit" in worship and service in the past!

However, are we ever "allowed" to retire from being a disciple? To do so would be to retire from life in Christ itself. Sure, we don't have to "lead" the worship service or the bible study but we can always contribute to it in one way or another...... even if its just in prayer. One member of my congregation who passed over into glory last year (at 106 years of age) reminded me every time that she saw me that she always prayed for my family and myself and for the church and its services and ministries. I certain God answered her prayers.

Blessings,
Dave

[Ryan Plott]

Thanks David, but I am trying to work from the either/or mindset, not a mindset advocating ceasing to be a disciple completely. The problem you are describing seems to be a matter of pride, not choosing either bible study or worship. I wasn't trying to communicate an idea bout people retiring the church, but rather their perceived spiritual needs and how that would work in this scenario. I have seen quite a difference in my observations of those perceived needs in the different age groups that make up the church.

[Susan Unger]

What just occurred to me is that this may be a question that is generationally impacted.

Older members of the congregation have probably heard 1000+ sermons easily in their lifetime. They know the story of Christianity, they've read the Bible their entire lives, and now they just want to worship and express their love to God. Younger members(like myself) know we don't know enough so we want to roll up our sleeves and work with the text. If this idea has some merit then that could be something to take into consideration when making this decision.


Just a thought. I could be way off and would appreciate some feedback on this idea.

I know for me, I feel like a turkey on Thanksgiving Day cuz of all the sermons I have heard in my lifetime. I grew up with 30 min sermons in the AM, PM and Wednesday night, plus twice a year revival services, plus regular SS attendance PLUS classes from Olivet. Throw in regular Bible reading since I was 10 and you have someone who feels like she has heard it all in sermons.

[Susan Unger]

SOme of the folks of my congregations felt this way when I first came to them...... "they've heard it 'all' before" and they've certainly "done their bit" in worship and service in the past!

However, are we ever "allowed" to retire from being a disciple? To do so would be to retire from life in Christ itself. Sure, we don't have to "lead" the worship service or the bible study but we can always contribute to it in one way or another...... even if its just in prayer. One member of my congregation who passed over into glory last year (at 106 years of age) reminded me every time that she saw me that she always prayed for my family and myself and for the church and its services and ministries. I certain God answered her prayers.

Blessings,
Dave

For me personally, I have felt like this but that was because the church culture that I grew up in fostered a theological 'dumbness'. One day during church I asked God "if this is all that there is left to learn about you, you might as well take me home cuz I am going insane from hearing the same old thing every Sunday." Thankfully, he led me to those wonderful things called Theology Classes and a lot of my boredom went away.

[Scott Sherwood]

If you had to choose, would you choose a church where the Bible study is fantastic for all ages in your family but for whatever reason the worship service is untenable/unattendable for you, or a church with a fantastic worship service that offers absolutely no Bible study?

We've taken a break from "our" church to work through some burnout and seek revival. Now we are facing the decision above, and I would value your input.

Which church is doing a better job from all indications of making disciples who make disciples? My guess is that this church will be the one more likely to use its strengths to improve its weaknesses.

[Ryan Plott]

I know for me, I feel like a turkey on Thanksgiving Day cuz of all the sermons I have heard in my lifetime. I grew up with 30 min sermons in the AM, PM and Wednesday night, plus twice a year revival services, plus regular SS attendance PLUS classes from Olivet. Throw in regular Bible reading since I was 10 and you have someone who feels like she has heard it all in sermons.

Do you feel that this has any bearings on your answer to the question asked by Linda?

[Susan Unger]

Do you feel that this has any bearings on your answer to the question asked by Linda?

Yes. But more generally, I would say that long before Linda's question came up I have had to radically change my expectations about the worship service. I can remember clearly so many sermons from decades ago not to mention the other background information that I mentioned. I realized one day, even when hearing wonderful sermons, that no sermon can meet my needs or expectations. I have only heard 4 sermons that presented me with something new in the last 17 years. I changed my expectations for the worship service to expecting to meet with God in the prayer time and in communion. Enjoyed church so much more since doing that.

[Jim Franklin]

Which ever you feel will nourish your souls and help you grow spiritually.

[Hans Deventer]

If you had to choose, would you choose a church where the Bible study is fantastic for all ages in your family but for whatever reason the worship service is untenable/unattendable for you, or a church with a fantastic worship service that offers absolutely no Bible study?

The latter, and I'd start a Bible Study group myself.

[Tinker Boyd]

Is the Bible study at the same time as the worship service? Why not go to both? Attend the worship service at the one church and the Bible study at the other?

[Jon Bemis]

I think I'd go with the church the church with the better worship, and (as others have suggested) find a Bible study group.

[Sarah Smith]

Thanks! We've been invited to try out a third choice. It is Wesleyan background, not Naz, and from what we are hearing the music and the more traditional, even lightly liturgical, setting would be better for our family. No idea about the sermons. They do offer Bible study before church for adults and during church for the kids (might turn into a timing hassle) during the school year.

We can't do Bible study at church 1 and worship at church 2 due to timing and distance.

We plan to try Bible study at church 1 and worship at church 3 and if we like it, do that this summer, then try church 3 Bible study during the winter IF we can work out the logistics with a grade schooler.

Roland--as to church style--the debate over traditional/contemporary/liturgical is, I agree, at times asinine. But I do believe all of us, no matter what style works for us personally, need to recognize that style doesn't work for everyone. We've made that decision--the church with the best Bible study has very long very contemporary services that apparently work for some, but not for our family. We see no need to be forced to participate in that which sets our teeth on edge, hurts our heads, and makes it impossible for us to worship. In the same way, we realize not everyone is fed by liturgical or traditional services and we wish them well in their contemporary services.

I don't believe anyone is a poorer Christian for seeking a better "fit".

I also need to add: it is very important to us that there be a Sunday School, both for our granddaughter and for any neighborhood kids we might invite. Also important to have a good Bible study for neighborhood new believers we might invite.

[Dana Grant]

Linda, I haven't been much a part of this discussion, but a statement like that would send me right out the door.

Agree completely.

[Benjamin Burch]

What just occurred to me is that this may be a question that is generationally impacted.

Older members of the congregation have probably heard 1000+ sermons easily in their lifetime. They know the story of Christianity, they've read the Bible their entire lives, and now they just want to worship and express their love to God. Younger members(like myself) know we don't know enough so we want to roll up our sleeves and work with the text. If this idea has some merit then that could be something to take into consideration when making this decision.


Just a thought. I could be way off and would appreciate some feedback on this idea.

Way off.