Good site, It looks like there's not much activity at that site now. Good articles though.
Good site, It looks like there's not much activity at that site now. Good articles though.
But the last entry is 2 years ago. So there's no problem in reviving the idea, Gary!Originally Posted by Ryan Scott
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 LaughingGary Condon - "thanks" for this post
Don't know if either comment will be helpful, but I have two:
1. My personal experience in conversionist churches, mostly CotN, was never that you have these two one time experiences and then you are all set. It was always presented as places where you start that journey. We don't have to throw away the strong call to definite committment implied in a conversion experience to include the idea of continuing journey. Never was supposed to be either/or. Always was supposed to be both/and.
2. What we are seeing around here among the postmoderns is a strong split: some are attracted back into highly liturgical smells and bells churches. Others, however, are going back to a more somewhat Jewish view. Churches, like synagogues, are great places for the occasional celebration. (Occasional defined all the way from weekly to couple of times a year.) The real meeting, the real ritual, the Communion service, however, takes place with the gathered family (blood and marriage and adoption, not family of God) around the dinner table at the Sabbath meal. Fair amount of ritual, candle usage, set prayers, scripture reading, and sharing either ritual communion or considering the whole meal the love feast. Family, not the gathered institutional church, is the primary unit of the church for those folks.
I can resonate with both views. For corporate worship I come into the presence of God more easily in liturgical services. However, growing up very rural, living in isolated company housing, and then often spending large blocks of time or weekends out in the boonies on job sites, camping, etc I'm also very very used to family worship without the need of outside input.
For a really fresh approach Hans, your new group could find a traditional brick n mortar /4 walls and a steeple church building in a particularly unreached neighborhood (one thats been abandoned for the suburbs.). Call your group of parishioners to be ministers to this geographical community, to meet thrice weekly, to live a holy "set apart" lives in the world but not of, to post the 10 commandments on the wall next to beattitudes, to organize like minded folks to sing in a choir, (guid the choir to sing inspiratational songs don't sound like music heard on their radio or que'd on their Iphone4gs, to hold bible studies; and when the thoughts of bringing in wifi, internet steams, laptops, projector screens, fake smoke, etc enter the discussion allow the board to table those discussions and divert the funds back into ministry to the neighborhood keeping the focus on worshiping the almighty God and sharing his love.
Well it would be a fresh approach...wouldn't it?
"And as we pass the collection plate, please give as if the person next to you was watching."
-Rev. LovejoyPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
There are still churches in our area using that approach. Some thrive, others die.
I mention this because it might genuinely seem like a "fresh approach" if people weren't doing it anymore.
Sorry to be a late comer to the conversation but that seems to be my way these days. Of course you already know most of what I think Hans but for the record to establish the right church means asking the right questions and they begin with this: “what does love look like in this context?” They also include asking questions about how do people hear more than what do we have to say. The question of love also suggests that the core group needs to face the issues of how to be truly vulnerable with each other about their own pain, failings, fears and hopes. If they won’t then regardless of form the church will be less than –well the church. I don’t think any “type” of church style is more appropriate than any other except to the extent that it enables the process of vulnerability among its people and communicates love to those beyond the group. Unless we are dealing with those issues we are only perpetuating the inadequacies of humanity rather than the grace of God. To that end the new church must be a church of genuine experiential encounter not simply philosophical understanding. The church must be a place of transformation by grace and its leaders must ask the question, “how am I being transformed now?” The right questions will make all the difference in creating the right church.
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What does a post traditional church look like?
Jesus's custom, while on earth, was the synagogue. So I guess it depends who you ask about what post traditional looks like.
"The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?"
(Psalms 27:1)
I guess I need a refresher
"And as we pass the collection plate, please give as if the person next to you was watching."
-Rev. Lovejoy
Ah...the wizardry of Facebook has just been revealed.
Please, feel free to look down your nose at those of us who can only freely talk about the things that truly concern us online, and that rarely.
Unless I get to talk to my pastor for a bit before Sunday school, I don't get to have any conversations with adults about things that matter to me week to week.
I hear people talk about what their church is like, or how it's difference blesses them, but I seem to be one of the ones who will always hear about that, but never be in it.
Mind you, the folks at my church love me, but they feel threatened by my intellect. And I am not somebody who will ever likely become a Pastor.
God is with me in the pain. And maybe that's a kind of church, in and of itself.
None of us can honestly say "I am the median representation of all Christians, everywhere". As a result, a post traditional church doesn't look like any one thing, it's shaped by community and circumstance and the leading of the Spirit.
There's a very post-modern church down in Little Rock called Eikon that I was part of for a while, but eventually left because there was so little meat to their teaching. But there are people in their church who feel enlightened and fulfilled who would not have connected with God in that way elsewhere. It's not my home, but it is theirs.
Todd - it appears that you misunderstood my comment. It was not shared to "look down" my nose at anyone. I apologize for offending you.
Please allow me to expound...I believe that many people, of all ages by the way, allow FB to replace real face-to-face time with other people. That leads to the shallow relationships to which Craig refers. My comment was offered as a funny (I guess that didn't work) "amen" to Craig's observation.
FWIW...
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