What can we do?

[Hans Deventer]

Saw the following graph on the site of a Dutch newspaper. The trust in institutions was polled, and this is the result. From the top down, you see:

Radio, police, army, written press, judicial system, television, unions, parliament, government, political parties, church. The number indicates the percentage of Dutch people that trust these institutions.



No idea what the graph would look like in the USA, but if the church scored similarly low there as well, what can we do to restore this trust? For this low number seems to me to be an obvious hindrance to the proclamation of the gospel.

[David Graham]

I haven't seen any recent polling along those lines out here but, here is one from a Reader's Digest Poll, which outlines the most trusted professions, the least trusted professions, and the most trusted relationships.

Unfortunately, the church and/or its leaders don't register among those that people trust; but neither does the church rate amongst those that people don't trust either...... thank goodness!

Maybe the Aussie experience speaks of a church that is largely disconnected frtom the general community. The Dutch experience, I fear reveals something else.

MOST TRUSTED PROFESSIONS
1.1 Paramedics
2.2 Firefighters
3.3 Pilots
4.4 Rescue volunteers

LESS TRUSTED PROFESSIONS
1.39 Sex workers
2.40 Journalists
3.44 Politicians
4.45 Telemarketers

MOST TRUSTED RELATIONSHIPS
1.1 Partner
2.2 Mum
3.3 Pet
4.4 Closest friend
5.9 Inlaws

I searched a bit further in the Readers Digest survey and found that Religious Leaders ranked at number 25 out of the 45 Professions listed, one below Weather Forecasters (24)(which is very sad) but one above Financial Planners (26)(about which, after the GFC I am rather glad)

[John Reilly]

Hi Hans, First being aware and naming the issue is essential. Second, I believe the church needs to rediscover the lost art of Christian Conferencing where we come together to discuss doctrine, how to teach doctrine, pray, encourage one another and develop a strategic plan. Third, we need to recognize that the church growth equation CG=(PE)2+(E$)P is subject to inverse proportion of a regressive society. Fourthly, we need to understand that a Heart for Mission requires that the Disciple's Heart must be nurtured by spiritual disciplines. Fifthly, the church must embrace its role in society as "A Community of Character" influencing a regressive society by example in Loving God, loving each other and Loving our neighbor.

[Hans Deventer]

John, one of the most important issues in recent years must be the many scandals of sexual abuse that have taken place in my country, mainly in Roman Catholic Church. But obviously it reflects on the church as a whole.

[Rich Schmidt]

Saw the following graph on the site of a Dutch newspaper. The trust in institutions was polled...

No idea what the graph would look like in the USA, but if the church scored similarly low there as well, what can we do to restore this trust? For this low number seems to me to be an obvious hindrance to the proclamation of the gospel.

The simplest/cheapest response would be to make sure we're not relying on the institution for the proclamation of the gospel. If Christians are living in relationships with non-Christians; and if they show themselves to be honest, trustworthy friends to those people; then they can still communicate the Good News of Jesus Christ to those non-Christians.

People can trust the Christians they know but not trust the institution of the church. Perhaps that's already reflected in that poll.

[Carl Hueston]

I believe alot of it comes from Christians judging each other and unbelievers. I've asked alot of people over the years and most tell me Christians are the most cold nasty judgemental people they ever met. I think the RC has had a huge impact also. It's about love and I believe the church in general has forgotten this.

[Doug Ward]

Let me add one other thought. I think we have lost our culture intellectually. We have wasted time arguing about 7 days of creation, inerrancy of Scripture, and the God both knows and plans the future. Many have ignore these elements in the church, while others have listened and now marginalize every voice in the church they hear. I am not saying this is the fault of anyone here, but we do have to overcome this with the people we meet.

[John Reilly]

Let me add one other thought. I think we have lost our culture intellectually. We have wasted time arguing about 7 days of creation, inerrancy of Scripture, and the God both knows and plans the future. Many have ignore these elements in the church, while others have listened and now marginalize every voice in the church they hear. I am not saying this is the fault of anyone here, but we do have to overcome this with the people we meet.

Doug, I agree. As Nazarenes we need to understand our doctrine in order to relate our doctrine clearly. For example, in another thread Ryan Scott made the point that we as a denomination do not clearly understand our doctrine on baptism, infant versus and believer baptism. I think the lost art of Christian Conferencing would help us sort out our own doctrine and how to teach it effectively. Nazarenes need to understand the articles of faith and relate them clearly. Difficult doctrines like article X needs attention and teaching and conversation. John Welsey promoted Christian Cinferening as a spiritual discipline - a means to discuss doctrine and to discuss how to teach doctrine.

[Doug Ward]

Doug, I agree. As Nazarenes we need to understand our doctrine in order to relate our doctrine clearly. For example, in another thread Ryan Scott made the point that we as a denomination do not clearly understand our doctrine on baptism, infant versus and believer baptism. I think the lost art of Christian Conferencing would help us sort out our own doctrine and how to teach it effectively. Nazarenes need to understand the articles of faith and relate them clearly. Difficult doctrines like article X needs attention and teaching and conversation. John Welsey promoted Christian Cinferening as a spiritual discipline - a means to discuss doctrine and to discuss how to teach doctrine.

Article X needs attention. Now that is a graceful understatement.

[Dennis M. Scott]

It would be at least interesting to know which church the respondents meant. Likely it was all over the board. It could be the RC church, the building down the street, the church universal, etc., etc. Those are all in a sense institutions. I am reminded again that the Lord says, "I will build by Church: your job is to make disciples." Then we almost immediately begin organizing to make the institution bigger and better. Maybe the Lord knows what He's saying.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

Hi Hans, First being aware and naming the issue is essential. Second, I believe the church needs to rediscover the lost art of Christian Conferencing where we come together to discuss doctrine, how to teach doctrine, pray, encourage one another and develop a strategic plan. Third, we need to recognize that the church growth equation CG=(PE)2+(E$)P is subject to inverse proportion of a regressive society. Fourthly, we need to understand that a Heart for Mission requires that the Disciple's Heart must be nurtured by spiritual disciplines. Fifthly, the church must embrace its role in society as "A Community of Character" influencing a regressive society by example in Loving God, loving each other and Loving our neighbor.

John - I've never seen this formula, can you illuminate? When I google, it, I get your NazNet post:
https://www.google.com/search?q=CG%3...ient=firefox-a

[John Reilly]

The Church Growth Equation
CG = (MV)P + (EE)$

Church Growth = (Missional Vision) x Passion + (Evangelistic Effort) x money =
New Salvations + Increased AM attendance

The danger of this equation is that in a regressive society increased evangelistic effort meets with diminishing returns. As Pastor and people put out more time and effort with diminishing returns the danger of burn out increases. Case in point, the prophets in the days of Israel's exile.

[Gene Tatsch]

...I am reminded again that the Lord says, "I will build my Church: your job is to make disciples." Then we almost immediately begin organizing to make the institution bigger and better....

I keep hoping that Nazarenes will do things that implement His (and our) mission statement ... but we seem unable.
Hence, He is building His Church - while many of the church organizations ignore Him.

btw, I'm encouraged by consistently seeing the ministry of some local pregnancy support agencies - with a "do what it takes" mentality to offer discipleship to hurting, scared, mad folks - female & male, believers & unbelievers, and even when the abortion choice is made His Love is given and given.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Please don't misunderstand me. Seems like it is good to train new believers who receive a call, to be good pastors. Those pastors will pastor local churches, and local churches seem to be able to make disciples more efficiently when connected to other similar efforts. The objective, however, seems to be to make disciples, not to form institutions. The purpose of a Nazarene University should be to make disciples, not to merely establish a huge educational machine. Any aspect of the Church that is primarily doing something other than making disciples, might do well to take another look.