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Thread: What's happening in Miami?

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    Host Sports forum Shea Zellweger's Avatar

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    What's happening in Miami?

    The Heat are favored to win the championship- yeah, saw that coming.
    The Dolphins are winning multiple games in a row- hmmm, didn't expect that.
    The Panthers are leading their division after a significant portion of the season- very surprising.
    The Marlins are spending money in the free agent market- wait... the Marlins are spending money? WHAT???

    Monday- Heath Bell.
    Tuesday- Jose Reyes (booo!)
    Wednesday- Mark Buehrle.
    Thursday- Prince Fielder? C. J. Wilson? An "April Fools" announcement?

    This is a team that cut payroll to $14 Million just 2 seasons removed from a World Series victory. This is Jeffrey Loria- an owner who has only once allowed the payroll to climb above the 20th percentile, and twice made significant payroll cuts while other division rivals were increasing salaries.

    What's the end-game here? What's the philosophical shift? Is Loria trying to buy a world series? That might be a nice way to christen a new ballpark, but if you're a Marlins' fan, aren't you wondering why now, and why not sooner?

    I really don't know what to make of these moves. As a Mets' fan, I'm not too thrilled about seeing one of our best pieces go to a division rival, or seeing said rival make such drastic improvements. But moreover as a fan of the game, I really don't know what to make of the sudden about-face on the part of Loria.

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    Host Book, Movie & CE forums Ryan Scott's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    They have done this before - and got a World Series out of it. Plus they'll be making more money with the new park. Why not take a chance. They're spending revenue sharing money right now anyway.
    ...just my $.02.

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    Host Sports forum Shea Zellweger's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Scott View Post
    They have done this before - and got a World Series out of it.
    Not really... Their payroll from 2002 to 2003 only increased 10%, and still left them in the lowest 20%. The 1997 jump was more significant, but that was under John Henry, who has very different ideas about spening money than Loria.

    According to Joe Lemire, the Marlins' payroll is moving from $58 Million last year, to $120 Million this year, and that's assuming they don't make any more moves- they're still in the running for Fielder and Wilson. That's not a move from $41M to $45M in order to try and win a few more games. That's a complete change in institutional philosophy. Based on last year's numbers, it's a move from the 7th lowest payroll to the 8th highest. I really don't think you can look at this scenario and say "they've done this before."
    Plus they'll be making more money with the new park.
    Maybe. That's certainly a part of their justification for doing it, but doubling payroll is a massive decision, even if they expected to start a sellout streak to rival the Red Sox.

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    Senior Member David Lyons's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    And... I missed the big announcement about the Florida Marlins becoming the Miami Marlins. I had to look it up to find out where and when. At least I noticed it before a month had gone by.

    Payroll going from $58 Million to $120 Million in one year?????? That is practically unheard of. The first possible other team to do something similar that popped in my head was the Miami Heat. How much did their payroll jump last year?

    So I am guessing the economy must be better in Miami than in the rest of the country?
    Thanks Shea Zellweger - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Benjamin Burch's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyons View Post
    Payroll going from $58 Million to $120 Million in one year?????? That is practically unheard of. The first possible other team to do something similar that popped in my head was the Miami Heat. How much did their payroll jump last year?
    This is a big misconception, the idea that Miami was trying to "buy a championship." Due to two factors, Miami's payroll was the lowest it had been since 2006.

    (1) They didn't "buy" the Big Three. The Big Three gave up around $20M+ over the life of their contracts, and $2.4M last year (Wade gave up around $3M last year)

    (2) Due to the NBA's hard-cap, teams can build dynasties over the course of seasons, through the use of Mid-level and bi-annual exceptions, as well as trade exceptions (cf. Los Angeles acquiring both Gasol and Artest this way). That is why teams will repeat or 3-peat and then fall apart. Each player's first year under contract is the only year which goes against the salary cap. The annual raises do not. Therefore, teams like Chicago and Los Angeles were paying a lot more in payroll due to the life of Kobe's contract as well as players like Deng and Noah.

    So, last year, the cap was practically a "flex-cap" for Miami last year, instead of a true "soft cap". Miami retained Bird Rights on a couple players, but the price of each contract before vet-mins counted against the cap. There was no situation like in LA where Kobe was making $28M and only costing the Lakers $16M against their cap.

    Therefore, Miami's payroll went as such:

    2007: $68M
    2008: $74M
    2009: $78M
    2010: $66M



    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyons
    So I am guessing the economy must be better in Miami than in the rest of the country?
    No, the owners in Miami simply have deep pockets.
    - Ben

    Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
    Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!
    Thanks David Lyons - "thanks" for this post

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    Senior Member Benjamin Burch's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shea Zellweger View Post
    The Heat are favored to win the championship- yeah, saw that coming.
    The Dolphins are winning multiple games in a row- hmmm, didn't expect that.
    The Panthers are leading their division after a significant portion of the season- very surprising.
    The Marlins are spending money in the free agent market- wait... the Marlins are spending money? WHAT???

    Monday- Heath Bell.
    Tuesday- Jose Reyes (booo!)
    Wednesday- Mark Buehrle.
    Thursday- Prince Fielder? C. J. Wilson? An "April Fools" announcement?

    This is a team that cut payroll to $14 Million just 2 seasons removed from a World Series victory. This is Jeffrey Loria- an owner who has only once allowed the payroll to climb above the 20th percentile, and twice made significant payroll cuts while other division rivals were increasing salaries.

    What's the end-game here? What's the philosophical shift? Is Loria trying to buy a world series? That might be a nice way to christen a new ballpark, but if you're a Marlins' fan, aren't you wondering why now, and why not sooner?

    I really don't know what to make of these moves. As a Mets' fan, I'm not too thrilled about seeing one of our best pieces go to a division rival, or seeing said rival make such drastic improvements. But moreover as a fan of the game, I really don't know what to make of the sudden about-face on the part of Loria.
    I think the Marlins' owner noticed what's been going on at American Airlines Arena, and all the buzz around the city for a Heat team that couldn't sell tickets the year before. I think he decided it was time to take his franchise seriously, and try to win his city to their sports team. He's basically willing to front the bill to try and fill his seats.

    It's a business decision. He is investing a lot of money up front hoping for a return on his investment.

    I imagine the impetus for this change in direction was the success that such a decision had for Mickey Arison.
    - Ben

    Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
    Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!
    Thanks Shea Zellweger - "thanks" for this post

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    Host Theology Forum Mike Schutz's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    The national media is suggesting that the Marlins are hoping for the success that Milwaukee experienced in bringing folks out with the new ballpark. The big difference is that Milwaukee was what Baltimore is now - a proven baseball market that had fallen on hard times. South Florida has never demonstrated that it will consistently support the Marlins.
    "Fully embracing the Gospel, fully engaging the world"
    Thanks Shea Zellweger - "thanks" for this post

  8. #8
    Senior Member Benjamin Burch's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Schutz View Post
    The national media is suggesting that the Marlins are hoping for the success that Milwaukee experienced in bringing folks out with the new ballpark. The big difference is that Milwaukee was what Baltimore is now - a proven baseball market that had fallen on hard times. South Florida has never demonstrated that it will consistently support the Marlins.
    Miami also doesn't have a major alcohol tycoon that has the ability to keep the economy above water.
    - Ben

    Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
    Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!
    Thanks Shea Zellweger - "thanks" for this post

  9. #9
    Host Book, Movie & CE forums Ryan Scott's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Schutz View Post
    The national media is suggesting that the Marlins are hoping for the success that Milwaukee experienced in bringing folks out with the new ballpark. The big difference is that Milwaukee was what Baltimore is now - a proven baseball market that had fallen on hard times. South Florida has never demonstrated that it will consistently support the Marlins.
    Florida is not a traditional baseball market, the Miami metro is one of the top ten most populated cities in the US. They've got plenty of people who will show up if they win games.
    ...just my $.02.

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    Senior Member David Lyons's Avatar

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    Re: What's happening in Miami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Burch View Post
    (1) They didn't "buy" the Big Three. The Big Three gave up around $20M+ over the life of their contracts, and $2.4M last year (Wade gave up around $3M last year)

    (2) Due to the NBA's hard-cap,

    Therefore, Miami's payroll went as such:

    2007: $68M
    2008: $74M
    2009: $78M
    2010: $66M
    Thanks for the figures. I knew the NBA was different from MLB and that some players took less money to go to Miami, but I figured they still must have increased spending. I guess not.

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