Common English Bible

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

I hope I am in the correct forum for this. I just want to learn if anyone has any experience and knowledgeable opinion about this new translation? I am guessing it would be Wesleyan as a general sort of orientation, but... you tell me.

http://www.commonenglishbible.com/

I see several of our own scholars are on the translators list: http://www.commonenglishbible.com/Ex...7/Default.aspx

UPDATE: There is a previous NazNet string here:
http://www.naznet.com/community/show...+english+bible

[Mike Schutz]

I am certainly not a Bible scholar, so I went and looked at one of the most familiar passages from Luke, chapter 2, just to read the passage for differences. In Luke 2:7 there is an interesting difference - the use of "guestroom" rather than "inn."

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

I am certainly not a Bible scholar, so I went and looked at one of the most familiar passages from Luke, chapter 2, just to read the passage for differences. In Luke 2:7 there is an interesting difference - the use of "guestroom" rather than "inn."

Eeeewwwww. Not sure I like that.

[Susan Unger]

The Human One instead of Son of Man...

[Bill Morrison]

I am certainly not a Bible scholar, so I went and looked at one of the most familiar passages from Luke, chapter 2, just to read the passage for differences. In Luke 2:7 there is an interesting difference - the use of "guestroom" rather than "inn."

Interesting. My first reaction was: this is weird! Then I started to wonder about the culture of Palestine around the time of the first Christmas. Maybe when everyone went to their home town to be taxed, they just stayed with other families in their spare room. Maybe the "innkeeper" was just a person who already had a family staying at his home and graciously let Joseph and Mary use his barn for the night (or the stable room that was part of his humble home). Maybe there were no hotels or "inns" with innkeepers as we have been led to believe by the KJV and other versions. Maybe the Common English Bible folk are on to something.......or maybe they are just being a little too cutesy trying to speak in today's jargon. Hopefully some of our Naznet Bible scholars can shed light on this. Where is Ralph Earle when you need him? (well, hopefully enjoying his rest in the Lord after a servant life well spent!)

BILL

[Ryan Scott]

There was nothing like an "inn" in first century Palestine. The word there literally means "guestroom." When you traveled, you stayed with relatives in the guest room. If you notice, there's also no mention of a stable or barn in scripture, just a manger. People at the time brought their animals into the house at night; likely the guestroom in the home of Joseph's relatives was full, so they had to stay in the main room (likely with the residents of the house and all the animals).

[Bud Pugh]

I do know that Immerse Journal, an email promotional piece for Barefoot Ministries (Nazarene Publishing House), has been advertising it.

[Rich Schmidt]

I'm pretty sure there was a thread on this translation somewhere here on NazNet already... Anybody want to find it & link to it?

[John Kennedy]

Where is Ralph Earle when you need him? (well, hopefully enjoying his rest in the Lord after a servant life well spent!)

BILL

If you manage to get Ralph Earle back to sit in on this discussion, you can probably start your own church, if not your own religion. And, of course, you'd be able to write your own Bible.

[Bill Morrison]

If you manage to get Ralph Earle back to sit in on this discussion, you can probably start your own church, if not your own religion. And, of course, you'd be able to write your own Bible.

No need to write my own Bible: I'm quite happy with the KJV and Dr. Earle's Nazarene International Version. I even like the Message and the Living Bible (from my teen years). But it would be a wretched church indeed. Music would be a mixture of choral anthems and Southern Gospel, with lots of hymns from the old Nazarene hymnals thrown in along with some rousing old Youth for Christ choruses. I doubt anyone but me and Jesus would be happy there....and that is not what Church is all about

BILL

[John Kennedy]

No need to write my own Bible: I'm quite happy with the KJV and Dr. Earle's Nazarene International Version. I even like the Message and the Living Bible (from my teen years). But it would be a wretched church indeed. Music would be a mixture of choral anthems and Southern Gospel, with lots of hymns from the old Nazarene hymnals thrown in along with some rousing old Youth for Christ choruses. I doubt anyone but me and Jesus would be happy there....and that is not what Church is all about

BILL

Well, you got at least one song that might work. Remember that one from the 60's-70's that went ".......it's just Jesus and me....'. I can remember people wearing decorative pens that had the same line.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

The Human One instead of Son of Man...

Yes, this (really) takes some getting used to, but, I've decided I like this turn of phrase to communicate meaning. Unexpected.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

I'm pretty sure there was a thread on this translation somewhere here on NazNet already... Anybody want to find it & link to it?

Aha! I should have thought to search first - yes here it is, and... you started it
http://www.naznet.com/community/show...+english+bible

I'll read thru this. If these threads can be combined that'd be good. I guess that is the Moderator's decision?

[John Kennedy]

There was nothing like an "inn" in first century Palestine. The word there literally means "guestroom." When you traveled, you stayed with relatives in the guest room. If you notice, there's also no mention of a stable or barn in scripture, just a manger. People at the time brought their animals into the house at night; likely the guestroom in the home of Joseph's relatives was full, so they had to stay in the main room (likely with the residents of the house and all the animals).

The KJV is often assailed as being archaic and out of touch with modern culture. Could it be possible that the 'stable' allusion was an attempt to help connect English readers (who certainly related to the idea of inns and attached stables) with a culture to which this was foreign.

Attempting cultural relevance is fraught with pitfalls, among them being that relevance can have an incredibly short shelf life.

[Bill Morrison]

Well, you got at least one song that might work. Remember that one from the 60's-70's that went ".......it's just Jesus and me....'. I can remember people wearing decorative pens that had the same line.

Certainly a little suspect in its theology, but sounded neat when a good southern gospel bass singer showed off with it.

BILL

[Rich Schmidt]

Aha! I should have thought to search first - yes here it is, and... you started it
http://www.naznet.com/community/show...+english+bible

I'll read thru this. If these threads can be combined that'd be good. I guess that is the Moderator's decision?

Huh. I didn't remember that I'd started it.

That was so long ago, that I think I was probably thinking of this thread. The CEB enters into the discussion midway through.

I don't think the threads need to be combined. This is a new conversation. But that's not my call...

[Ryan Scott]

The KJV is often assailed as being archaic and out of touch with modern culture. Could it be possible that the 'stable' allusion was an attempt to help connect English readers (who certainly related to the idea of inns and attached stables) with a culture to which this was foreign.

Attempting cultural relevance is fraught with pitfalls, among them being that relevance can have an incredibly short shelf life.

Sure, it's obviously easier to translate the story into modern culture than teach people about the contextual culture. You also have an extra 400 years of scholarship to build upon. Also, there is this little thing now where people have access to dozens of translations, so readability isn't always the foremost concern as opposed to accuracy.

[Susan Unger]

Loving to read the bible, I decided to buy it. I really love reading it.

[Paul DeBaufer]

Digression alert!

There was nothing like an "inn" in first century Palestine. The word there literally means "guestroom." When you traveled, you stayed with relatives in the guest room. If you notice, there's also no mention of a stable or barn in scripture, just a manger. People at the time brought their animals into the house at night; likely the guestroom in the home of Joseph's relatives was full, so they had to stay in the main room (likely with the residents of the house and all the animals).

I wonder if, being Joseph's relatives that him showing up with his already pregnant, not quite yet wife, may have rejected them based on that. Maybe it's because I grew up in a town with a home for unwed mothers and have known girls tossed out of their homes for being pregnant that I even am led to consider this. Okay tie in to the thread's topic. Maybe just maybe the new wording leads to this.

[Susan Unger]

Maybe just maybe the new wording leads to this.

That's what I like about this new translation though.

[Paul DeBaufer]

That's what I like about this new translation though.

Oh me too. Even before seeing this wording this is what I thought, because that's who we are as people, I cannot imagine Joseph's family or anybody then much different than we are. Today there are people who will not let a family member in who is with his pregnant girlfriend. And those who would be so against her and the marriage knowing that she got pregnant by another, even if he does marry her. It's kinda human.

[Gary Creely]

So I hopped on Amazon to read some reviews. The ones I found most convincing where the negative ones. One of them was critical because they though it was offensive to the homosexual community. On the other side of the spectrum the fundies didn't like it because it did not use the terms vipers and abomination. When I read those reviews I know this would be a bible I would like to own.

[Jim Chabot]

The KJV is often assailed as being archaic and out of touch with modern culture. Could it be possible that the 'stable' allusion was an attempt to help connect English readers (who certainly related to the idea of inns and attached stables) with a culture to which this was foreign.

Attempting cultural relevance is fraught with pitfalls, among them being that relevance can have an incredibly short shelf life.

Good point John! One of the reasons that I stick with the KJV is because it must be interpreted into today's culture, thus we re-interpret the relevance as language changes. I realize that the ideal would be to stick with the greek and interpret that, but that's just a little too cumbersome. The other reasons that I stick with the KJV is because the resources are free and plentiful and the language has become familiar over these many years.

However when I read, I don't use the KJV, the translation process makes it too cumbersome for reading. Somewhat of a forest vs. the trees aspect. When I want to see the forest, I need to read quickly, somewhere in the 600-800 wpm range. Almost impossible with the KJV, yet pretty easy with the NIV, NASB, RSV, Jerusalem Bible or something like that. We don't need great accuracy when we are viewing the forest, we are on the highway. But when we want to examine a tree, then we need to stop and get out of the car, again accuracy isn't going to be high on my list because I'll want to dig in and check things for myself.

I like Gary's observation. If it offends folks on both sides of the spectrum, it's probably ok.

For me the short shelf life argument works, and the last thing I need is yet another bible version. But this is something that could be very useful in preaching as one can present a quick modern english version of a passage without having to write it themselves.

[Dennis M. Scott]

If God didn't want Luke 2 to be read in the KJV He would have had it written in some other language.

"In those days there went out a decree that all the world should be taxed. . . ." Ah, real scripture . . . Now it can be Christmas.

[Jim Chabot]

If God didn't want Luke 2 to be read in the KJV He would have had it written in some other language.

"In those days there went out a decree that all the world should be taxed. . . ." Ah, real scripture . . . Now it can be Christmas.

Of course not just every Tom Dick and Harry can be trusted to deliver the majestic prose in proper form. One must be an orator to read the Authorized Version in public.



And we conclude the service with this:



Merry Christmas Dennis!!!

And of course;

"God Bless Us Every One!"

[Dennis M. Scott]

This week I was teaching a class, "Introduction to the Bible", to 13 adult students who admitted they'd never read the Bible. Later, when we were looking up passages, they went to I Corinthians 13, and one of them blurted out, "Hey, I forgot that I have read some of this. We read this at my wedding." Some were fascinated that there would be different English translations.

[Gary Creely]

What I think is really compelling about the CEB is it is an NIV read, with NRSV accuracy, at a KJV price. To me this is the most serious contender to the NIV as a good choice for a Nazarene pew bible that I have seen. The current state of affairs seems to be that the NRSV is the goto Nazarene scholarly bible, and the NIV is the goto preaching/pew bible. The CEB if it holds up to scrutiny could be both.

I also looked up the translators- 5 Nazarenes, and 4 free methodists. About a dozen UMC. oddly no Wesleyans.

[Susan Unger]

I also looked up the translators- 5 Nazarenes, and 4 free methodists. About a dozen UMC. oddly no Wesleyans.

So actually, this could truly be the "Nazarene International Version" instead of the NIV.

[Gina Stevenson]

As it is one of the versions available for download in this one reader found for this thing (BB tablet), going to try it out.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

ETA: OOPS !!! Guess I got versions mixed up, as this is not one, after all. {embarrassed face goes here}.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

This week I was teaching a class, "Introduction to the Bible", to 13 adult students who admitted they'd never read the Bible. Later, when we were looking up passages, they went to I Corinthians 13, and one of them blurted out, "Hey, I forgot that I have read some of this. We read this at my wedding." Some were fascinated that there would be different English translations.

Dennis, how exciting!!! Where is this class? Tell us about it. Did any of them have Bibles or did you have to supply, and if you supplied, which version did you supply? What do you think of the CEB for such a class? I think it would be great for new Bible readers.

[Dennis M. Scott]

This is a class in the adult/graduate studies program at ENC, meeting in Carver, MA. Massachusetts has notified daycares that they will soon require teachers to have at least a BA in early childhood. The state has also offered scholarship money to fund the transition for current daycare workers. The owner of three daycares approached ENC and asked to work with the adult studies program to provide a degree for her staff. ENC agreed, and it thus far has meant nearly three hundred new students, with cohorts in several locations, mainly in the "Southcoast" area, but it is growing as fast as ENC can put the program in place. Numerous daycares are now on board. These are not exclusively Christian daycares. The students are adult learners, and most thought they would never go back to college. Those in my class range in age 19 to 60ish. Naturally the state funding will not last forever, but for the next several years, this could be monumental. Classes meet in daycare facilities, and start immediately following the daycare closing for the day. I appreciate your prayers.