A Charitable idea

[Shea Zellweger]

With the popularity of ereaders and tablets growing every day, a lot of people are switching from hard copies of books to digital edition. However, like any other move from physical to digital, it's creating some disparate collections. Books that someone bought before owning a reader, or that weren't available for reader at the time of purchase, still occupy a lot of physical space, and for the avid reader this can become cumbersome, and replacing physical books with digital ones is expensive, as you have to pay for the digital editions.

So I was thinking, what if publishers offered a donation/exchange program? There are multiple charities out there that take donations of books to be given to underprivileged kids (or pastors, or doctors, or...), and I'm sure I'm not the only one whose shelves are full of books that are also available online. So what if (for instance) I could donate a full commentary set to one of these charities, and receive a license for a digital copy of that same set from the publisher/supplier? Or, if the supplier doesn't feel particularly charitable, what if they made the exchange and then resold the copy I traded in? I've got several books that cost more on Amazon used than they do via Kindle.

Just a thought...

[Rich Schmidt]

That would certainly be charitable... Any publishers here reading this? Want to comment?

The alternative, of course, would be for you to sell those books used on Amazon. You'll then have money to buy the digital version, and someone will get a less-expensive hardcopy of the book. Not quite charity, but still helpful.

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

Yes, what Rich posts is what comes to my mind as well, Shea.

As a librarian and library vendor, these kinds of issues come up all the time in my day to day discourse. The publishers are not likely to take this on. But, there is a shift going on and perhaps with continued brainstorming there is some kind of unexpected beneficial solution out there, even a small business idea. How to recycle all these books, and get an upgrade to the new format. Some kind of service to other book users who also wish to upgrade but perhaps need convenience in dispatching with the used books more than they need money.

CAVEAT: Keep in mind - how do you expect to access a favorite commentary 15 years from now? Even only 7 years? I came across a box of those smaller floppy drives today. I can no longer read anything on them. There is great debate on the shelf life of digital content.

[Shea Zellweger]

The alternative, of course, would be for you to sell those books used on Amazon. You'll then have money to buy the digital version, and someone will get a less-expensive hardcopy of the book. Not quite charity, but still helpful.

This is true. I was thinking at the very least Amazon could streamline the process- they already offer trade-in credit, but I imagine they would actually profit from just giving you a digital version rather than money toward books.

CAVEAT: Keep in mind - how do you expect to access a favorite commentary 15 years from now? Even only 7 years? I came across a box of those smaller floppy drives today. I can no longer read anything on them. There is great debate on the shelf life of digital content.

I don't think that's really a concern any longer. Most things are made backwards-compatible in terms of reading files, and e-readers usually come with remote access to your library, so if someone were to get a 15th generation kindle, amazon would either make sure that they could access all the books they had on their first-gen, or consumers would protest and amazon would correct the error. Worries about having the right drive are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

[Jim Chabot]

I don't think that's really a concern any longer. Most things are made backwards-compatible in terms of reading files, and e-readers usually come with remote access to your library, so if someone were to get a 15th generation kindle, amazon would either make sure that they could access all the books they had on their first-gen, or consumers would protest and amazon would correct the error. Worries about having the right drive are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

You are still young yet grasshopper. While promises of backward compatibility may sound reassuring perhaps even soothing. The reality is that almost all software and other digital whatsamajigacalits suffer from the dreaded yet inevitable lack of support. I have plenty of boxes of expensive programs that are totally useless, no longer supported, no available drivers. I mentioned on another thread that I own a program that requires a 5 1/4" floppy disk be read as an authentication key. How long do you think I have before it's lights out on that one. That particular program set me back somewheres near 5K about 10 or so years ago and yes it is no longer supported. Beware the ides of march my friend.

I'll take paper, and I'll take it in hardcover please. I do have some kindle stuff, nothing that I would worry about losing however, the good stuff needs to be hardcover.

[Shea Zellweger]

You are still young yet grasshopper. While promises of backward compatibility may sound reassuring perhaps even soothing. The reality is that almost all software and other digital whatsamajigacalits suffer from the dreaded yet inevitable lack of support. I have plenty of boxes of expensive programs that are totally useless, no longer supported, no available drivers. I mentioned on another thread that I own a program that requires a 5 1/4" floppy disk be read as an authentication key. How long do you think I have before it's lights out on that one. That particular program set me back somewheres near 5K about 10 or so years ago and yes it is no longer supported. Beware the ides of march my friend.

Right, but these issues have to do with hardware. floppy disks, flash drives, CD-ROMs, USB thumb drives, etc. are all hardware storage. Ebooks are stored digitally by their proprietors, with the host transferring files as upgrades are made. The only way that a kindle in 2042 won't be able to read a book you buy today is if Amazon decides not to support the current ebook format any longer, AND deletes that portion of your library which exists in that format. That would be a surefire way to garner a lawsuit, and I doubt Amazon is stupid enough to try it, but if they were, the plaintiffs would win hands-down.

[Jim Chabot]

Right, but these issues have to do with hardware. floppy disks, flash drives, CD-ROMs, USB thumb drives, etc. are all hardware storage. Ebooks are stored digitally by their proprietors, with the host transferring files as upgrades are made. The only way that a kindle in 2042 won't be able to read a book you buy today is if Amazon decides not to support the current ebook format any longer, AND deletes that portion of your library which exists in that format. That would be a surefire way to garner a lawsuit, and I doubt Amazon is stupid enough to try it, but if they were, the plaintiffs would win hands-down.

Amazon will still be around in 2042? Are you sure?

Just sayin.

And while I'm at it, I should mention another piece of design software that I own. The initial cost was $2500 give or take and I paid $800 for a couple rounds of upgrades. It requires a parallel port dongle to authenticate each session. They also have a USB version of the "key" of which I own one. The only way that I can get the parallel key replaced with a USB one is to pay for three more rounds of upgrades plus a $400 conversion charge. I realize that this is software, but I'm just saying that digital isn't forever, there are too many changes and contingencies required to make it so. I'll take paper.

[Hans Deventer]

Jim, it sounds convincing, but also like the folks who predicted that because of the increase of horse and carriages, the horse poop would become a major problem in the future.

The digital world has only just begun. It can't be a surprise that it hasn't matured yet in only a few decades. The preservation of digital data in a format that will last is a major issue already. It can be done, but it is a matter of agreement.

[Jim Chabot]

Jim, it sounds convincing, but also like the folks who predicted that because of the increase of horse and carriages, the horse poop would become a major problem in the future.

The digital world has only just begun. It can't be a surprise that it hasn't matured yet in only a few decades. The preservation of digital data in a format that will last is a major issue already. It can be done, but it is a matter of agreement.

Yes, this is true we are still in the "wild west" as they say over here. Agreement and standards are the key, while at the same time if standards are either enacted or agreed upon too early in the game then development and innovation will be stifled.

We are seeing a revolution of sorts right now as apple is seeking to destroy flash as a media format. I'm thinking that apple will prevail and that a better lighter and faster format will emerge. I haven't seen much content available in "real" format in a while, they seem to be going the way of the icebox. Things remained pretty static in the realm of television with NTSC and PAL lasting for decades, now HD had replaced this in many places and here we have already had a format war between bluray and HD-DVD with bluray emerging as victor. We are old enough to remember Vinyl to cassette, then 8 track, back to cassette then CD and now mp3 as portable audio formats.

I agree that standards may eventually arrive, I think that they are still away off. While I love the Kindle format and I've bought a few titles for it. I think that these purchases are best seen as the equivalent to paperback, I don't see long life in the cards just yet.

I can see owning a text in both formats as the Kindle format adds so many tools that aren't there in hardcopy format. I have to wonder how long before we lose the time honored skill of remembering what we have read well enough to pull a book off of the shelf and find it again.

[Rich Schmidt]

Since we're talking about texts, not executables, this isn't as big of an issue. If Amazon goes under by 2042, users can simply convert all their Amazon ebooks into some other format. Plain text, anyone?

[Shea Zellweger]

Since we're talking about texts, not executables, this isn't as big of an issue. If Amazon goes under by 2042, users can simply convert all their Amazon ebooks into some other format. Plain text, anyone?

Which can subsequently be converted to whichever new ebook format pops up

[Marian Schwaller Carney]

I don't think that's really a concern any longer. Most things are made backwards-compatible in terms of reading files, and e-readers usually come with remote access to your library, so if someone were to get a 15th generation kindle, amazon would either make sure that they could access all the books they had on their first-gen, or consumers would protest and amazon would correct the error. Worries about having the right drive are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

I hope you are right, Shea. The major concern is the data integrity. Digital preservation systems, very costly, presently offer 'preservation' by way of regular copying of the original data file and reformatting it to whatever platform is in use. That takes a lot of server space. I wonder how all the good books we all want to use, and those of many other professions, will survive in truly useable format. Licensing and copyright are also thorny issues not fully resolved. We'll see what the cloud offers, I suppose.

[Katelynn Scott]

HP knows that their 3 year old printers no longer work with the newest version of Windows - yet they refuse to sell a patch so that I can use my "old" printer with my new lap top because they'd lose profit if I didn't also have to buy new printers every few years. I'm protesting by simply not printing anything... oh wait - but it was a printer/ scanner, and therefore I can't scan my ultrasound pictures. Sad, sad day...

[Jim Chabot]

With this talk of conversion if it becomes necessary, I have to ask this. Are the current iterations of these files portable and convertible as is? Can the current kindle formatted files be copied and converted or are there copy protection schemes in play that would prevent this?

[Gina Stevenson]

how sad, Katelynn. not even right when they know they will work far beyond three yrs! sooo wrong ....

w/ink deals being far more plentiful w/HP than my printer (brother). was beginning to think I shouldve gotten hp. now it looks like maybe not, huh? sorry U R having this problem.