What is our "good news?"

[Mike Schutz]

A friend referenced this article today, and I thought it would generate some helpful conversation.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thepang...-right-gospel/

So, what is the good news you share?

[Doug Ward]

Mike, thanks for linking to this - it is a worthy question, especially in our context, where the "concerned" among us want to limit the gospel to a very narrow definition. Here is my gospel, and it probably looks a lot like NT Wright.

__ We live in a world where everything has gone wrong. It was wrong when we arrived, and truth be told we have chosen to do wrong, and contribute to this mess ourselves. God's answer to our mess was not to turn His back, or condemn everyone, but to come into this world Himself. He took all the worst, personally experienced pain, injustice, rejection and death; without ever participating in it Himself. He showed through His life that we do not have to make the choices we do.

Then after our unjust world killed Him, He rose again! The great news is this new life is now made available to everyone who participates in this new life Jesus has started. This life is marked by love, justice, peace, and forgiveness, and Jesus is renewing our whole world. We are not left alone, but somehow God lives in us and empowers us to live in this new way. The better news is that this new life that God gives will not end with our earthly years, but will continue, and the things that still limit us here like disease, loss and pain, will be no more. ----

Inadequate, of course. This is where I am now.

[Shea Zellweger]

I like how the author points out that it's ALL good news, and the Gospel we share depends on the context. At Beryl Jone's funeral yesterday, the good news that the deaf hear, the lame walk, and the mute speak would've been good news, but it would not have breathed a word of life and assurance into those assembled to remember this stalwart woman of God. But hearing that Christ went to prepare a place for her in his Father's house, and that those who are asleep in Christ shall live... well, that was also the Good News, and pertinent to the suffering of the people. When we cast too narrow a Gospel, we limit our ability to speak the Good News of Christ to individuals who so desperately need it...

[Bill Morrison]

In spite of the fact that we did (and continue to) royally mess up God's beautiful plan, he did not give up on us but has paid the price to redeem us as individuals and to restore his creation. And if that were not enough, he even allows us to partner with him in this process. That is Good News indeed!

BILL

[Susan Unger]

When we cast too narrow a Gospel, we limit our ability to speak the Good News of Christ to individuals who so desperately need it...

Amen!

[Susan Unger]

My good news is based on what Jesus told one of the men he healed - go home and tell everyone what I've done for you. So, I go and tell people how he sets people free from bondage to sin, addictions, hatred and the like. Those that want to be set free, listen.

[David Graham]

Christ Jesus is the good news!

He is the chosen one of God to be the Saviour of the whole world..... Jews, Gentiles & even nature.

He fulfilled (and will yet fulfill) all of the Old Testament Prophecies concerning the Messiah, not just for the Jews only but for the whole world.
He ushered in the new age through his birth, his death and his resurrection.... "the perpetual "Year" of Jubilee, where debts (sins) are cancelled, slaves are set free and the time of God's favour (grace) is proclaimed. Through his life he demonstrated God's grace and love by doing "good" things for people and revealing God's unconditional acceptance to all who received him. AND, thus being reconciled with God through Christ, his followers continue his work...... hence, Humanity and all of creation can likewise then be reconciled together.....and all this is good news indeed to a world hopelessly lost in the "dark".

Yet, best of all..... "God is with us".... (Wesley) and so this self revealing God can be known (in significant and meaningful ways) and made known to those who believe....... so that people can call him "ABBA" (Father) in the name of the Son by the Holy Spirit.

[Cam Pence]

That Gods kingdom is a kingdom that is here and now where being "right"takes a back seat to loving God and each other

[Susan Unger]

... where being "right" takes a back seat to loving God and each other

That's a revolutionary thought to some folks...

[Jim Chabot]

I have to wonder if our "good news" comes in part from who we are and the experiences which have shaped our lives.

The good news that I share is that we are not orphans, nor creatures of chance. We have a parent who created us, this world is the product of that parents love for us. Creation is the result of a purposeful act, we are not adrift, nor are we the sum of the chemicals that make up our bodies. We have a parent that loves and cares for us, He has not abandoned us, He is still there longing and willing and entirely capable with dealing with each one of us completely, individually and simultaneously.

Sure there remain the specifics of how this God and parent spent thousands of years working with us and reaching out to us, culminating with the loving sacrificial act of sending His Son to live among us and die for us so that we might live. How He has gone before us to prepare a place for us to dwell eternally with our Father, and how He has sent His Spirit into this world to be with us until then.

But without a basis in reality, the second part of the good news has little meaning. Every tom dick and harry and every religion sets itself up as some sort of a self help based outreach organization of sorts. There isn't a whole lot of difference between any of them if all you seek is comfort. Pick a flavor, someone has what you are looking for, be it 72 virgins, or inner peace, it's out there. The real question is, what is real, what can be counted on. Without reality, this is really a matter of joining the club that will give you the most, make you the happiest, cater to your needs. As Chuck Millhuff so eloquently stated here a while back "eternity, deal with it!"

Anyways, that's where I'm at.

[Randy Wise]

What is our "good news?"
In a broad sense "Christ is preached"

Context of a audience that doesn't hold to the testimony of Jesus.
One could also ask "what excuses are given to reject Christ?" and "How would Jesus respond to those objections? (excuses)" Jesus did respond to objections given in the testimony we read. Has Jesus changed His mind about being the true way to the Father?

However the goal of the gospel isn't judgment but that others may also receive a like salvation as we received.

"The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God—he and his whole household."


And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit

Johns style of preaching

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)

3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

What can I state? "How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and not know Jesus lives? I tell you the truth Jesus lives!"

Randy

[Hans Deventer]

From the very beginning, we were meant to live in a trusting relation with God. However, not trusting God, we lost the very source of Life. Ever since, we've been looking all over the place for a replacement, but none is adequate. We call the search for anything that takes God's place "sin". So this is where we are.
However, the great news is that God didn't let go! In stead of giving us over to our own devastating desires, He keeps pulling us back, if we only let Him. After doing so for centuries, with rather mixed results, at last He came Himself. Not in splendour and great power, but as one of us. As a simple coutry boy, living the Life in the midst of us, even when we killed Him. Thus becoming the ultimate sacrificial Lamb of God, the fulfilment of everything the Torah told us to do in order to get right with God. In Himself, he absorbed all the pain, sin, loneliness and evil of this world, and opened the door to a Life that has always been God's intention, if we but let His Spirit fill us anew.
This Life is not a lonely enterprise, because by having the Holy Spirit renew us, we become partakers of the divine image and hence, a new kind of humanity, together with each and every Christian. And only God knows its limits.

[Doug Ward]

From the very beginning, we were meant to live in a trusting relation with God. However, not trusting God, we lost the very source of Life. Ever since, we've been looking all over the place for a replacement, but none is adequate. We call the search for anything that takes God's place "sin". So this is where we are.
However, the great news is that God didn't let go! In stead of giving us over to our own devastating desires, He keeps pulling us back, if we only let Him. After doing so for centuries, with rather mixed results, at last He came Himself. Not in splendour and great power, but as one of us. As a simple coutry boy, living the Life in the midst of us, even when we killed Him. Thus becoming the ultimate sacrificial Lamb of God, the fulfilment of everything the Torah told us to do in order to get right with God. In Himself, he absorbed all the pain, sin, loneliness and evil of this world, and opened the door to a Life that has always been God's intention, if we but let His Spirit fill us anew.
This Life is not a lonely enterprise, because by having the Hoy Spirit renew us, we become partakers of the divine image and hence, a new kind of humanity, together with each and every Christian. And only God knows its limits.

Let me list the places I disagree with you.
-
-
-
-
That covers it.

[Marcus Kibbe]

I believe one of the greatest dangers the body of Christ faces today is the temptation to rethink and rearticulate the "good news" on something other than the death of Jesus on the cross in the place of sinners. It seems one of the main sources of pressure to do this is the increasingly common idea that the gospel of forgiveness of sin through Christ's death is somehow too "narrow" in the sense that it does not address problems like oppression, poverty, injustice, etc. All these problems, at their root, is a result of human sin, and it is folly to think that with a little more activism, a little more concern, a little more "living the life that Jesus lived," we can solve those problems. It is the cross alone that truly deals once and for all with sin, and it is the cross that makes it possible for humans to be included in God's perfect kingdom at all.

The heart of the "good news" is NOT that God is remaking the world, or that he has promised a kingdom that will set everything right, or that he is calling us to join him in transforming the culture. The idea that creation-fall-redemption-consumation is the "good news" wrongly places the emphasis of the gospel on God's promise to renew the world, rather than on the cross. Similarly, the proclamation that "Jesus is Lord" is not "good news" either unless there is a way to be forgiven of our rebellion against him. The fact that God is remaking the world is NOT "good news" unless one can be included in it. If we say merely that God is redeeming a people and remaking the world, but do not say how he is doing so (through the death and resurrection of Jesus) and how a person can be included in that redemption (through repentance from sin and faith in Jesus), than we have NOT proclaimed the "good news". We have simply told the narrative of the Bible in a broad outline and left sinners with their faces pressed against the window, looking in.

[Doug Ward]

I believe one of the greatest dangers the body of Christ faces today is the temptation to rethink and rearticulate the "good news" on something other than the death of Jesus on the cross in the place of sinners. It seems one of the main sources of pressure to do this is the increasingly common idea that the gospel of forgiveness of sin through Christ's death is somehow too "narrow" in the sense that it does not address problems like oppression, poverty, injustice, etc. All these problems, at their root, is a result of human sin, and it is folly to think that with a little more activism, a little more concern, a little more "living the life that Jesus lived," we can solve those problems. It is the cross alone that truly deals once and for all with sin, and it is the cross that makes it possible for humans to be included in God's perfect kingdom at all.

The heart of the "good news" is NOT that God is remaking the world, or that he has promised a kingdom that will set everything right, or that he is calling us to join him in transforming the culture. The idea that creation-fall-redemption-consumation is the "good news" wrongly places the emphasis of the gospel on God's promise to renew the world, rather than on the cross. Similarly, the proclamation that "Jesus is Lord" is not "good news" either unless there is a way to be forgiven of our rebellion against him. The fact that God is remaking the world is NOT "good news" unless one can be included in it. If we say merely that God is redeeming a people and remaking the world, but do not say how he is doing so (through the death and resurrection of Jesus) and how a person can be included in that redemption (through repentance from sin and faith in Jesus), than we have NOT proclaimed the "good news". We have simply told the narrative of the Bible in a broad outline and left sinners with their faces pressed against the window, looking in.

Marcus, in Luke chapter 4 Jesus announces the good news, and He does so by quoting from Isaiah 61. Let me share portions of that chapter.

They will rebuild the ancient ruins,
repairing cities destroyed long ago.
They will revive them,
though they have been deserted for many generations.
5 Foreigners will be your servants.
They will feed your flocks
and plow your fields
and tend your vineyards.
8 “For I, the LORD, love justice.
I hate robbery and wrongdoing.
I will faithfully reward my people for their suffering
and make an everlasting covenant with them.
9 Their descendants will be recognized
and honored among the nations.
Everyone will realize that they are a people
the LORD has blessed.”
10 I am overwhelmed with joy in the LORD my God!
For he has dressed me with the clothing of salvation
and draped me in a robe of righteousness.
I am like a bridegroom in his wedding suit
or a bride with her jewels.
11 The Sovereign LORD will show his justice to the nations of the world.
Everyone will praise him!
His righteousness will be like a garden in early spring,
with plants springing up everywhere.

Not only this chapter, but the entirety of the later chapters of Isaiah speak of exactly this, a world remade. The righteous will be vindicated, and it is not language of substitution, and the promise of being taken away from this world. It is strong and clear language that God will reclaim and remake what He created, and called Good.

Yes, God forgives. Yes, God cancels sin. But, for what purpose? Does this end with me? No, God does this in order to make us fit to serve and to love, and to empower us to be a part of this re-making project. One other thing, if God wants to forgive, cleanse, and re-make me, does He not also want to do this to the entire world? Yes!!! No one here denies that God seeks to forgive the sin of the individual. What we are proclaiming is that Scripture bears witness to Creation being re-made as well, from Isaiah, through Luke 4, travelling down through Romans 8, and culminating with that great vision of Revelation 21.

"1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them.[a] 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”
5 And the one sitting on the throne said, “Look, I am making everything new!”

Your individual message of forgiveness is a vital part of the good news, but it is not the whole news.

[Ryan Pugh]

Marcus,

Did you even read the posted article? It seems to me that you've done exactly what the author was suggesting we don't do: define "good news" narrowly and proclaim that all other understandings of good news are insufficient.

I believe one of the greatest dangers the body of Christ faces today is the temptation to rethink and rearticulate the "good news" on something other than the death of Jesus on the cross in the place of sinners.

If the good news is simply that Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins then Jesus could not have preached good news. I think we'd want to reject that notion.

It seems one of the main sources of pressure to do this is the increasingly common idea that the gospel of forgiveness of sin through Christ's death is somehow too "narrow" in the sense that it does not address problems like oppression, poverty, injustice, etc. All these problems, at their root, is a result of human sin, and it is folly to think that with a little more activism, a little more concern, a little more "living the life that Jesus lived," we can solve those problems. It is the cross alone that truly deals once and for all with sin, and it is the cross that makes it possible for humans to be included in God's perfect kingdom at all.

So what do you suggest telling a hungry person? Or the homeless? Or the thirsty? Or the child being sold for sex? Or the sick? That their sins need to be forgiven?

“I don’t preach a social gospel; I preach the gospel, period. The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is concerned for the whole person. When people were hungry, Jesus didn’t say, ‘Now is that political or social?’ He said, ‘I feed you.’ Because the good news to a hungry person is bread.” - Bishop Desmond Tute

The heart of the "good news" is NOT that God is remaking the world, or that he has promised a kingdom that will set everything right, or that he is calling us to join him in transforming the culture. The idea that creation-fall-redemption-consumation is the "good news" wrongly places the emphasis of the gospel on God's promise to renew the world, rather than on the cross.

False dichotomy if you ask me. The cross (and the life and resurrection of Christ) are at the heart of all things being made new, the inauguration of the kingdom of God coming on earth as it is in heaven. It's not either the cross OR all things being made new. It's not either the cross or a kingdom of all things being made right. The kingdom and new world are possible because of the life, death, and resurrection.

Similarly, the proclamation that "Jesus is Lord" is not "good news" either unless there is a way to be forgiven of our rebellion against him. The fact that God is remaking the world is NOT "good news" unless one can be included in it.

Where do you get the idea that someone's manifestation of the "good news" doesn't involve humans/individuals being included in the new world?

If we say merely that God is redeeming a people and remaking the world, but do not say how he is doing so (through the death and resurrection of Jesus) and how a person can be included in that redemption (through repentance from sin and faith in Jesus), than we have NOT proclaimed the "good news". We have simply told the narrative of the Bible in a broad outline and left sinners with their faces pressed against the window, looking in.

Again, you seem to simply be doing the exact thing that the author was calling us to not do. And again, I don't know of anyone who is claiming that God is redeeming a people and remaking the world through any other means than the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

I highly recommend (to Marcus and everyone) Scot McKnight's recent work The King Jesus Gospel: The Original Good News Revisited as we think about the good news.

[Marcus Kibbe]

So, the good news you share is that you are against something, Marcus?

The renewing of the world is only "good news" to sinners if they can get it on it. Unless something happens to remove their guilt, they are still separated from him and destined for eternal punishment. So the "good news" is not that "Jesus is Lord" or that he is "renewing the world" but rather that he has provided a way to share in the inheritance of the kingdom. "We preach Christ crucified" (1 Cor. 1:23). "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures" is not just important, or even just very important, but is of "first importance" (1 Cor. 15:3). That's the "good news" to sinners.

[Hans Deventer]

The renewing of the world is only "good news" to sinners if they can get it on it. Unless something happens to remove their guilt, they are still separated from him and destined for eternal punishment. So the "good news" is not that "Jesus is Lord" or that he is "renewing the world" but rather that he has provided a way to share in the inheritance of the kingdom. "We preach Christ crucified" (1 Cor. 1:23). "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures" is not just important, or even just very important, but is of "first importance" (1 Cor. 15:3). That's the "good news" to sinners.

Actually, it is not. If Christ only died, we would still be in ours sins and the most pityful of all people. (1 Cor 15) So that cannot be the gospel.

[Ryan Pugh]

Marcus (and everyone), you can read the first 20 pages or so of McKnight's King Jesus Gospel here. I think it will challenge you (all of us) to consider what good news is.

[Billy Cox]

A friend referenced this article today, and I thought it would generate some helpful conversation.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thepang...-right-gospel/

So, what is the good news you share?

Great question.

The good news is the present possibility of transformation - personal and corporate - leading to hope, freedom and peace. That transformation is possible because of Christ's love, drawing all people to him.

[Marcus Kibbe]

Not only this chapter, but the entirety of the later chapters of Isaiah speak of exactly this, a world remade. The righteous will be vindicated, and it is not language of substitution, and the promise of being taken away from this world. It is strong and clear language that God will reclaim and remake what He created, and called Good.

I agree, God redeeming a people and remaking the world is true and "Good", but it is not "good news" to a sinner who is not a partaker. The "good news" to the unregenerate sinner is the message of HOW they can be included. The fact that God is remaking the world is not "good news" to them unless they can be included. Is Isa. 53 using language of substitution?

Yes, God forgives. Yes, God cancels sin. But, for what purpose? Does this end with me? No, God does this in order to make us fit to serve and to love, and to empower us to be a part of this re-making project.

I agree with this. This is a noble goal and the effort to resist evil in society, whether it be personal or systematic is a biblical one. The problem I have is that with many transformationalists, cultural redemption subtly becomes the great promise and point of the gospel - which of course means that the cross, deliberately or not, is pushed out of that position. The highest excitement and joy are ignited by the promise of a reformed culture rather than by the work of Christ on the cross. The most fervent appeals are for people to join God in his work of changing the world, rather than to repent and believe in Jesus. And in the process, Christianity becomes less about grace and faith, and more a banal religion of "live like this, and we'll change the world". That's not Christianity; it's moralism.

[David Gerber]

Marcus (and everyone), you can read the first 20 pages or so of McKnight's King Jesus Gospel here. I think it will challenge you (all of us) to consider what good news is.

Thanks for the heads up. I have a new Nook book. :-)

[David Gerber]

So, what is the good news you share?

Jesus said, "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full" John 10.10b.

[Doug Ward]

I agree with this. This is a noble goal and the effort to resist evil in society, whether it be personal or systematic is a biblical one. The problem I have is that with many transformationalists, cultural redemption subtly becomes the great promise and point of the gospel - which of course means that the cross, deliberately or not, is pushed out of that position. The highest excitement and joy are ignited by the promise of a reformed culture rather than by the work of Christ on the cross. The most fervent appeals are for people to join God in his work of changing the world, rather than to repent and believe in Jesus. And in the process, Christianity becomes less about grace and faith, and more a banal religion of "live like this, and we'll change the world". That's not Christianity; it's moralism.

I think we have common ground, and the good news is that it is the high ground. Your issue is that some who emphasize renewal go too far, and their faith becomes more moralism than a reliance on grace. I can agree with this. My issue, and others who state it better than me, is that some who hold your position succumb to a hyper-individualism that neglects God's work in all of Creation.

Perhaps both of us can agree that the cross and His resurrection are the only remedy for a life that has been corrupted by sin. This new life is initiated by faith, and made possible through the power of the One who raised Jesus from the dead. This new life does not stop with me, but is to be extended to the whole world through me, and through His church. And the God's desire is to not only transform me, but the whole world.

[Hans Deventer]

My issue, and others who state it better than me, is that some who hold your position succumb to a hyper-individualism that neglects God's work in all of Creation.

That too. My issue would most of all be the image of God that is portrayed. As if God were this angry deity that can only be appeased by the worst of sacrifices, a human/divine sacrifice, which He actually prohibited in the Scriptures. As if God were in need of reconciliation, in stead of man. And as if, because "the price has been paid", nothing we do or don't do matters anymore. As if we could live like Pol Pot and be responsible for the torture and murder of millions, but still be in good standing with God, because He only sees us through Christ, ever since we said the "sinner's prayer". As if it is all about the cross, and nothing about the resurrection.

I could continue but you'll get the idea.

[Doug Ward]

That too. My issue would most of all be the image of God that is portrayed. As if God were this angry deity that can only be appeased by the worst of sacrifices, a human/divine sacrifice, which He actually prohibited in the Scriptures. As if God was in need of reconciliation, in stead of man. And as if, because "the price has been paid", nothing we do or don't do matters anymore. As if we could live like Pol Pot and be responsible for the torture and murder of millions, but still be in good standing with God, because He only sees us through Christ, ever since we said the "sinner's prayer". As if it is all about the cross, and nothing about the resurrection.

I could continue but you'll get the idea.

That too.

[Gene Tatsch]

Mike, thanks much for posting this!
I'm dimly starting the journey, aware that while John the Immerser preached repentance,
Jesus consistently announced (and had his disciples announce) the Good News ... "the Kingdom of God is near" (or is among you).
And how that message expanded following the Resurrection and Pentecost should effect what we announce.
Yet I generally hear calls to repentance (John's message) - and wonder how to frame the Good News Jesus intends us to announce.
And I'll submit that the brief discussion here demonstrates that we have lost any clear common understanding of Jesus message of the Good News.
With many implications.
So we need this discussion to try to move from "our" Good News to Jesus' Good News.
Thanks again/gene --

[Benjamin Burch]

Jesus said, "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full" John 10.10b.

The earliest Christians had this really neat phrase:

"God became [hu]man so that [hu]man[s] might become (like) God."

[Shea Zellweger]

The earliest Christians had this really neat phrase:

"God became [hu]man so that [hu]man[s] might become (like) God."

How DARE you use a quotation from that evil Mormon Joseph Smith... who stole it from Athanasius.

[Benjamin Burch]

How DARE you use a quotation from that evil Mormon Joseph Smith... who stole it from Athanasius.

This is a pretty good one, too.

The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."

[Hans Deventer]

How DARE you use a quotation from that evil Mormon Joseph Smith... who stole it from Athanasius.

Evil Mormon? The next president of the USA might be one. And even the Tea Party seems to support him. I guess it's all about politics after all, never mind your theology.

[Jim Chabot]

Theology of course has it's place, sometimes we get carried away. Kinda like arguing over what the good news is. If it's within the bounds of scripture it's good news and I'm glad that folks are sharing it. Arguing about it seems counterproductive and silly.

Oh and..........

[Mike Schutz]

Golly gee, boys.

I start a thread on the best possible topic in the world - and you turn it into an argument about politics.

In the words of that theologian, Charlie Brown: "Oh bother."


(Note below that George has corrected me. This quote is from the great British theologian, Winnie the Pooh.)

[Hans Deventer]

Golly gee, boys.

I start a thread on the best possible topic in the world - and you turn it into an argument about politics.

In the words of that theologian, Charlie Brown: "Oh bother."

I'm truly sorry. Didn't intend it as a serious remark, merely as a side note. In the same vein as Shea's. I'm happy to delete it if you so wish.

[George Wallace]

Golly gee, boys.

I start a thread on the best possible topic in the world - and you turn it into an argument about politics.

In the words of that theologian, Charlie Brown: "Oh bother."

I thought that line was from Winnie the Poo!?

[Todd Erickson]

I'm pretty sure that Jesus is Good News.

I have yet to make up my mind whether Christians are a good thing, however. Bah.

[Jim Chabot]

I'm truly sorry. Didn't intend it as a serious remark, merely as a side note. In the same vein as Shea's. I'm happy to delete it if you so wish.

Same here!

[Jim Chabot]

I'm pretty sure that Jesus is Good News.

I have yet to make up my mind whether Christians are a good thing, however. Bah.

Well we are still humans. Ben's quote is a nice thought, but it hasn't proven to be true. I thnk that we do become more like God, yet still the gulf is incredibly wide and always will be.

[Hans Deventer]

Well we are still humans. Ben's quote is a nice thought, but it hasn't proven to be true. I thnk that we do become more like God, yet still the gulf is incredibly wide and always will be.

Always is long, much longer than I can see. Or you, for that matter. I rather trust the God who can and who promised we would indeed "participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." (2 Peter 1:4)

[Mike Schutz]

I thought that line was from Winnie the Poo!?

I am about to type something that I have never typed before, and may never type again:

George, I think you are right!