I'm a Christian. I don't like worship songs.

[Cam Pence]

If todays worship music sounded more like these guys, we wouldn't be in this pickle

[Gina Stevenson]

{*not sure how the strange preface just edited out got there! Guessing, I would say I was going to post, began dozing (yesterday was rough), then finished not realizing some keys got punched--tho an onscreen kybd--hence that indecipherable preface to post!*}

*****************
Yes, what Hans said ... but could've sworn that was Maxine, until I saw the caption telling us it was Gladys! . /

Since we don't have a worship wars thread going, placing this pic here will have to do. Hope it makes you smile!

[Craig Laughlin]

I must be old. I remember the hit on hymns in the 70's and 80's. They talk about God not to God. - (Read to much theology) People want to connect with God not talk about God. The pendulum swings...

This was last night at Key Arena in Seattle. Packed house for Rock'n Worship.

Well, at least the music is connecting.

[Craig Laughlin]

From another angle -

[Sarah Smith]

For some of us, the question isn't is the music connecting, but what is it connecting folks to? God? The flesh? What?

I honestly believe worship music CAN be used for good.

But using the same mind techniques that are used by secular advertizing to engender a designed response? Blech!

Perhaps the biggest thing that soured me was being "trained" for a "city wide campaign".

Do "this song" with "this font" and "this background graphic" and folks will experience a peaceful, worshipful encounter with a loving Christ.

Now, come Friday, we want to send them out ready to take on the world so we will drop the waves and seashore background and the light almost handwritten font and use the video that makes it seem like you are in a jeep crossing a desert, make the font bold and dark and all caps, up the tempo and have the drums add a bit of martial tone and use the same song to send folks out in a fight the world mood.

I think those that use and love praise and worship music correctly would also say blech to that.

It just seems to me toooooo many are using it to manipulate. Sometimes without knowing it as they just copy what they've seen in a "successful" service or campaign.

[Greg Farra]

If todays worship music sounded more like these guys, we wouldn't be in this pickle

There's a version that's played by the local sports station. They dub Tebow everytime Jesus is mentioned. Sacriligious? I don't know. But it was funny.

[Greg Farra]

And here it is:

[Gina Stevenson]

Why is it that this reminded me of a few episodes seen on old time TV of the Partridge Family? . Having never heard of these folks (shoild I have?), is this a current or long ago group, or maybe even a parody?

If todays worship music sounded more like these guys, we wouldn't be in this pickle

[Todd Erickson]

I think that if more worship music was something in tune with this, I'd be in better shape:

[Cam Pence]

I think that if more worship music was something in tune with this, I'd be in better shape:

Well he's no Sonseed but he'll do

[Billy Cox]

I guess I'll post this here because I'm interested in what others think. There has been good conversation on it. Point #3 is more important to me - should have put it first. Any thoughts?

I'm a Christian. I don't like worship songs.

As a theologically trained musician, I have made many observations over the years. At this point in my journey, I see most praise/worship music as Sesame Street for new believers. This metaphor makes sense on multiple levels.

Young children are captivated by Sesame Street and it broadens their world. I won't say 'educate' because we in the church are fixated on the cognitive aspects of education to the exclusion of anything else that could be educational. Just as the musical accompaniment for contemporary worship songs is simplified to something that a guitar hacker (three chords and a capo) can blunder through, the lyrics are geared to make simple statements, not to ask/answer questions.

When kids reach a certain age, they scoff at Sesame Street. Likewise for many Christians who are 'too mature' for praise/worship music.

Within a Nazarene-specific context, the adoption of contemporary praise/worship music has been a disaster on many levels. First of all, most Nazarene congregations don't have any people who need a Sesame Street approach to theology, but there is no shortage of those who scoff when asked to engage in worship geared for spiritual preschoolers. Secondly, most praise and worship music frequently contains theology that is foreign to our theological tradition. I have over the years known many worship pastors/song leaders, and for most of them, their barely passable musical knowledge far surpassed their grasp of theology. (Wesley who?) Yes there are some who recognize faulty or foreign theology in a song and either edit the song lyrics or delete it from the repertoire, but they are the rare exception.

I think we could learn something from children's TV shows when it comes to worshipping together. The better shows were/are written with the apprent realization that there are grown-ups in the audience, as evidenced by allusions/references that fly over the heads of small children but connect with the adults. I enjoy Spongebob and detest the Teletubbies. I can dig Scooby Doo but hate the Wiggles.

Back in the day, most cartoons were written for adults, but were accessible to children by way of animation. Either way, the most beloved children's TV shows of yesteryear are those that were brilliant enough to engage a multi-generational audience. The rest are forgotten... Likewise with worship music.

He/she who has ears, let them hear.

[Roland Hearn]

I'm a Chistian and I know that the fad of the last few years, certainly on Naznet, has been to demonstrate the superiority of experience by canning certain worship music and style. Good luck with that I hope it goes well for you. Me I have an experiential theology that includes encounter with God. I have seen all forms of worship done badly, including the insistence on liturgy which for some is the only meaningful expression of worship. I have also experienced some of the most profound changes in my life in a wide variety of forms of worship. I'm committed to anything that makes me more like Christ. For me it does not include broad brush stoke dismissal of other based on the way they best encounter grace.

[Gina Stevenson]

Seriously, was not sure who that group in the video is/was.

ETA: Never mind. Google came thru again. 80's Catholic band:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonseed

[Billy Cox]

As a theologically trained musician, I have made many observations over the years. At this point in my journey, I see most praise/worship music as Sesame Street for new believers. This metaphor makes sense on multiple levels.

Just a quick addition to say that I don't intend for this metaphor to be a put-down of those who are new to the faith. I also don't intend to say that mature believers *cannot* engage the very elementary content in most worship songs, just acknowledging that some 'mature' believers aren't mature enough to lock arms with new believers.

[Gina Stevenson]

ETA: *** I see that Billy was answering while I wrote this (guessed right re his intent) but, since most of it is not re what Billy said, will leave it here, anyway, its being mostly re musical substance. ***

# # # # # # #

Billy, we do "get" your analogies, tho' I do see, too, where that could sound a wee bit haughty to some, even if your analysis may be correct in several instances, friend (ref Roland's note). While we do tend to think you did not mean it as such, either, it may be one of those conversations to have amongst musician friends, lest you are (as appears to have happened) taken wrong/misunderstood.

Did have to thank you for the post, tho', as -- having written a lot, in more than one genre -- we have very much always been aware of how nice it is to have some real substance to what we sing (tho not above having written some "just for fun" stuff, either). And it also has always been of utmost importance for that substance to "line up" theologically. So, thanks for the reminder/affirmation of that concept, too.

After all that, I must say that one "worship" song that has tended to stick over the years in my mind is: "Lord, I lift your name on high, Lord I love to sing Your praises ..." and it then goes on to explain why: "You came from heaven to earth to show the way ..." continues by mentioning the cross ... the grave ... then resurrection/ascension ("from the grave to the sky") ... the "gospel in a nutshell," so to speak (yes, we know some would even argue the word "debt" is wrong). Hey, at least there's a bit more substance than quite a few one-phrase so-called "7-11" choruses/songs.

The thing that could improve this particular song would be if someone were to add a verse finishing up this "nutshell theology" by mentioning how that love displayed via Christ's coming is to be lived out with others/within community. (do have to admit, too, that it is a great song for counterpoint harmony ... fun to sing in that M.O.).


ETA (again): the "Lord, we lift your name on high" is one that would be amenable to being changed to the plural: "I, my" to "we, our" . . . . . . .

[Meghan Schoonover]

I'm a Chistian and I know that the fad of the last few years, certainly on Naznet, has been to demonstrate the superiority of experience by canning certain worship music and style. Good luck with that I hope it goes well for you. Me I have an experiential theology that includes encounter with God. I have seen all forms of worship done badly, including the insistence on liturgy which for some is the only meaningful expression of worship. I have also experienced some of the most profound changes in my life in a wide variety of forms of worship. I'm committed to anything that makes me more like Christ. For me it does not include broad brush stoke dismissal of other based on the way they best encounter grace.

Amen, brother. Absolutely amen.

[Hans Deventer]

I'm a Chistian and I know that the fad of the last few years, certainly on Naznet, has been to demonstrate the superiority of experience by canning certain worship music and style.

That's not what I am reading in Ryan's post. Like you, I can deal with a lot of styles. Anything from a good church organ to rock. Might even survive house. But I do care about content, I don't think it is irrelevant.

[Gina Stevenson]

That's not what I am reading in Ryan's post. Like you, I can deal with a lot of styles. Anything from a good church organ to rock. Might even survive house. But I do care about content, I don't think it is irrelevant.

Amen to your content comment, Hans.

[John Kennedy]

I like worship music - my definition just isn't all that narrow. I'm a Christian working as music director in a Congregational/UCC church. I use a bit of everything. I know that doesn't please the purists on either end, but, IMO, that's just fine.

Our worship is formal/directed, but certainly not stiff. We use a wide variety of music for congregation, choir, soloists and ensembles, instruments.etc. Next Sunday we'll sing hymns accompanied, as always, by a pipe organ and some praise/worship songs accompanied by a guitar.

Some of our choral music has a classical sound - some has black gospel roots. I used a superbly trained soprano soloist in this morning's communion service - she sang as the bread and wine were distributed (everything from "One bread, one body...." to "Let all mortal flesh keep silence..."). In a couple of Sundays I'll use a duet that does beautiful work with Southern gospel material.

The last time I soloed I sang "O Lord, most holy..." (the Panis Angelicus setting). Next time I solo I'll probably use either "Wade in the water" or "Go down Moses" - the rocking Mark Hayes arrangements.

I'm one of the luckiest people in the world in terms of church music. I get to work with a minister and singers/musicians and a congregation who think it's all God's music, anyway. As far as I'm concerned they're all worship songs - God, the source of all things beautiful is praised and glorified. Some of the people prefer one style - some another. But they seem, thankfully, to be respectful of differing tastes.

My experience with some of the praise and worship music fans hasn't always been that enjoyable - some of them had a 'my way or the highway' attitude. To be honest, I like some of their music better than I like some of them.

I'm happy with what I'm being allowed to do - if the day comes when I'm told to narrow the musical focus to fit one particularly perceived demographic, I'll probably hit the road. After all, I wasn't looking for the job when it found me.

[Jim Chabot]

My experience with some of the praise and worship music fans hasn't always been that enjoyable - some of them had a 'my way or the highway' attitude. To be honest, I like some of their music better than I like some of them.

Wow! You can repeat that again and again and again, until they hear it!

You are right though, there seems to be an air of superiority in so many in that crowd. As someone who works with a variety of outside musicians each summer, I can tell you that I have noticed the same thing on the performers end of it. While most everyone I've ever worked with, I've found to be incredibly gracious and loving. It seems that the P&W crowd hasn't quite connected with the reality of servanthood in many cases.

Before someone gets offended, I want to make it clear that I've worked with P&W people who were great, but they are in the minority.

Most often I've found that they will pull in and start setting up, making the assumption that the whole platform is theres for the taking and assuming that if there is anything that they forgot to bring, then surely I must have plenty in stock. Generally speaking there isn't much if any consideration given for graphic display of words for the crowd. Either they don't bring anything or what they do have they assume that everyone is familiar with their style, so that when they switch off at random between verses, chorus and bridges it should be no problem. When we make apologies for not being quick enough with the words, often it's said, "it doesn't really matter, they don't really need the words anyway, everybody knows our stuff." Oh, and "we don't have the time to talk with the tech crew before the show, we have to pray!"

There, that's off my chest! Luckily I can separate the music from the people and some of it is pretty good stuff. Most of it is lightweight as Billy has outlined so I try to stay away from a steady diet. If we are going to serve our congregations than we need to have something for everyone. For there isn't a single person there who isn't special, we need to recognize that.

I'm glad to hear of the freedom that you have to serve where you are John! I've been pretty lucky to be in a similar situation, freedom wise. While I'm pretty much all alone at my church since we don't actually have any musicians and not so many singers. I do have the freedom to pick from any style of music and our people feel that I have ministered to them.

This past Sunday, our music was entirely contemporary P&W stuff, as we had one of our young people willing to sing a special so I made the entire song service as a focus on our young people. The week before we went on a historic tour of the Old Boston Churches with Isaac Watts, all pipe organ music. I've had the privilege of singing "The Great Speckled Bird" on one week "O What A Savior" on the next and "Ave Maria" from the balcony on the week after that.

I'm with you, on the day when the only choice in music is focused on one demographic. I'll stay home, the assembling together of the selfish just doesn't hold me interested.

[Roy Richardson]

"Community > Individualism
Most Christians I know are ready to leave behind the hyper-individualistic faith that has characterized Christianity for the last couple centuries. We recognize that faith is much more than just me and God. We are ready for the Church to actually be the community of the people of God who share life together, serve together, and maybe even live together in close community. We’re ready to counter the message of the world that says it’s all about looking out for number one: me, myself, and I. "

This goes way beyond worship music in worship. I have had people tell me we read too much scripture in worship. That one left me slack-jawed. I was reading a couple of the lectionary readings to go with the sermon text and had other people reading them or doing them in creative stylings. It appears that singing, offering, prayer and the sermon are all that are necessary.

My rationale was that the scripture read on Sunday is the only scripture many of them hear all week. But in a consumeristic society, it really has become a "I want it my way and my way only" mentality with some people. It is really frustrating from the pastoral point of view.

[Ryan Pugh]

For me it does not include broad brush stoke dismissal of other based on the way they best encounter grace.

Roland, I don't know if this is directed at me and my words or not, but dismissing anyone's form of worship or ways to encountering grace was the furthest thing from what I was trying to do. Like I said in the post, I don't care a whole lot about style - although I recognize I have some preferences and so do others. I'm more concerned with what we are actually proclaiming as we sing, no matter the style or form of worship. I apologize if it came across a different way.

[Ryan Pugh]

All creation (and I think especially mankind) has been created to praise the Lord.

Your voice it thunders
The oaks start twisting
The forest sounds with cedars breaking
The waters see You and start their writhing
From the depths a song is rising

Now it’s rising from the ground

Holy, Holy
Holy, Holy Lord
The earth is Yours and singing
Holy, Holy
Holy, Holy Lord
The earth is Yours
The earth is Yours

Your voice it thunders
The ground is shaking
The mighty mountains now are trembling
Creation sees You
And starts composing
The fields and trees they start rejoicing

[Jon Bemis]

Your voice it thunders
The oaks start twisting
The forest sounds with cedars breaking
The waters see You and start their writhing
From the depths a song is rising

Now it’s rising from the ground

Holy, Holy
Holy, Holy Lord
The earth is Yours and singing
Holy, Holy
Holy, Holy Lord
The earth is Yours
The earth is Yours

Your voice it thunders
The ground is shaking
The mighty mountains now are trembling
Creation sees You
And starts composing
The fields and trees they start rejoicing

My eighth grade English teacher (may she rest in peace) may have preferred the bolded words be left out.
Great song!

[Gina Stevenson]

My eighth grade English teacher (may she rest in peace) may have preferred the bolded words be left out.
Great song!

UNLESS, of course, those words include this: "Your voice . . . it thunders . . . "
Good old ellipses (well, just one is ellipsis).

[Roland Hearn]

That's not what I am reading in Ryan's post. Like you, I can deal with a lot of styles. Anything from a good church organ to rock. Might even survive house. But I do care about content, I don't think it is irrelevant.

Hans, when the emphasis is "I don't like worship songs" and the argument is about content forgive me for reading the suggestion that all worship songs are contentless. I have certainly witnessed that assertion, or something close to it, many times and it is a position without merit.

[Lucas Finch]

My experience with some of the praise and worship music fans hasn't always been that enjoyable - some of them had a 'my way or the highway' attitude. To be honest, I like some of their music better than I like some of them.

Wow! You can repeat that again and again and again, until they hear it!

You are right though, there seems to be an air of superiority in so many in that crowd.

Ugh! I don't want to get involved, or help lead to, a worship wars debate. But I gotta say somethin' 'bout this:

In my personal experience, I see more "superiority" from those who insist on "the good old songs of the church" than I do from those who prefer more contemporary praise and worship music. I also despise the concept of these supposed "good old songs of the church", because more often than not (again, in my experience), the songs that are being referred to as such are NOT actually the "good old songs of the church" but are rather mid-20th Century gospel songs in the vein of what the Gaithers put out. Think of the number of older songs that have been reworked by, for example, the Passion worship leaders (David Crowder, Chris Tomlin, Matt Redman, Charlie Hall, etc.) When I Survey The Wondrous Cross, Jesus Paid It All, All Creatures Of Our God And King, Take My Life And Let It Be, and more are all examples of older songs that have been embraced by contemporary worship leaders.

Don't get me wrong. I know and have experienced contemporary worship fans who will have nothing to do with organs and older hymns, but generally I see more acceptance from this crowd of older music than I do from the other crowd of newer music. As for myself, in a worship setting I embrace it all (as long as the theology is not out of wack). My least favorite is the mid-20th Century stuff. I LOVE pre-1900 hymns, and I like a lot of modern p&w songs, too. I also notice that the gospel songs from my least favorite era tend to be some of the ones that are the most theologically lacking, at least when it comes to eschatology. These are the ones that focus on us going somewhere else instead of the current creation being re-created and transformed, both through the Holy Spirit empowered church working now and also at the consummation. I suspect that the fundamentalism that was so prevalent during the mid-20th Century had a major impact on the songs that were written. Instead of being concerned about being God's agents in the current world, these songs seem primarily to be concerned about going to "heaven", which is typically understood to be some neo-platonic post-mortem existence.

Regarding Ryan's article . . .

On my own time I do not listen to much "praise and worship" music. Sometimes following a conference or camp on the drive home I want to bask in the experience a little longer. And being in charge of the music at my church one Sunday each month, I listen to some in preparation for that. And I do not listen to much "Christian" music, or at least Christian music as it is defined by the label an artist or band is signed to. I much prefer bands like Mumford & Sons and Alison Krauss & Union Station who are in the "secular" music realm but allow their faith to have a major impact on their songs. And I also like bands/artists that are purely "secular" in the sense that they essentially never sing about faith. (I will not listen to music that is "secular" in the sense that it glorifies lifestyles and experiences contrary to Christian faith, though, unless I am seeking to educate myself better on the youth culture that I minister to.)

I can resonate with Ryan's concern for the fact that churches are singing these songs at their gatherings but are not reaching out in love and service to others. I 100% agree that true worship will involve (and really be defined by) our interactions as God's agents with the broken world. But I do not think that we throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because far too many Christians view singing songs in community on Sunday mornings as being the essence of worship does not mean that we stop singing songs in community on Sunday mornings. Rather, it means that those of us in leadership need to continue exhorting our people to be incarnational to the world outside of the walls of our gathering buildings. (And naturally, those of us in leadership need to lead by example and do this ourselves.)

I also agree that there is far too much individualism in praise and worship songs. This really isn't a new phenomenon, though. Two of my favorite hymns are written first person singular. "When I survey the wondrous cross . . ." "And can it be that I should gain . . ." These are easy enough to fix. The music leaders just need to pluralize whenever feasible.

On the question regarding poor theology in contemporary church music, I am curious as to which songs y'all think are the biggest culprits, and possibly why as well. I will start a new thread for this conversation, though.

[Susan Unger]

I like worship music - my definition just isn't all that narrow. I'm a Christian working as music director in a Congregational/UCC church. I use a bit of everything. I know that doesn't please the purists on either end, but, IMO, that's just fine.

Our worship is formal/directed, but certainly not stiff. We use a wide variety of music for congregation, choir, soloists and ensembles, instruments.etc. Next Sunday we'll sing hymns accompanied, as always, by a pipe organ and some praise/worship songs accompanied by a guitar.

Some of our choral music has a classical sound - some has black gospel roots. I used a superbly trained soprano soloist in this morning's communion service - she sang as the bread and wine were distributed (everything from "One bread, one body...." to "Let all mortal flesh keep silence..."). In a couple of Sundays I'll use a duet that does beautiful work with Southern gospel material.

The last time I soloed I sang "O Lord, most holy..." (the Panis Angelicus setting). Next time I solo I'll probably use either "Wade in the water" or "Go down Moses" - the rocking Mark Hayes arrangements.

I'm one of the luckiest people in the world in terms of church music. I get to work with a minister and singers/musicians and a congregation who think it's all God's music, anyway. As far as I'm concerned they're all worship songs - God, the source of all things beautiful is praised and glorified. Some of the people prefer one style - some another. But they seem, thankfully, to be respectful of differing tastes.

My experience with some of the praise and worship music fans hasn't always been that enjoyable - some of them had a 'my way or the highway' attitude. To be honest, I like some of their music better than I like some of them.

I'm happy with what I'm being allowed to do - if the day comes when I'm told to narrow the musical focus to fit one particularly perceived demographic, I'll probably hit the road. After all, I wasn't looking for the job when it found me.

I wanna go to your church, John. Sounds like Heaven.

[Ryan Pugh]

Thanks for the long post, Lucas, and for starting the other thread.

But I do not think that we throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because far too many Christians view singing songs in community on Sunday mornings as being the essence of worship does not mean that we stop singing songs in community on Sunday mornings.

I'm not trying to say anything besides what Amos said. We might as well not sing until we learn how to be rivers of God's justice and righteousness.

[John Kennedy]

I wanna go to your church, John. Sounds like Heaven.

Well, not quite. That's why we join in a prayer of confession each Sunday morning. I find, from time to time, that those corporate prayers have a way of getting close to where I live.

[Lucas Finch]

I'm not trying to say anything besides what Amos said. We might as well not sing until we learn how to be rivers of God's justice and righteousness.

I don't think that one exists without the other. I do not believe that we can effectively be incarnational to the world unless we have times where we gather as a community and corporately engage in praise (among other things). At the same time, I do not believe that we can truly worship God if we are not going out into the world and spreading Christ's love through service, working for justice, etc.

Consider Acts 1-2. Jesus instructs the disciples to not leave Jerusalem until His Spirit came upon them. At that time they would be empowered to be His witnesses. What would have happened had they not heeded his warning? We can't say for sure, but I suspect that they would have failed miserably. It probably would have looked something like Wesley's failed experience in Georgia prior to his Aldersgate experience. So what did they do while they waited for Pentecost? They met together in prayer, and I imagine that they probably sang songs, too. (We certainly know that they did this when they met together at other times, so this seems to be a safe assumption.) Then, when the Holy Spirit came upon them, they were empowered to be His witnesses, winning 3000 converts in one day. And even at that point as they were empowered to work for justice, they still gathered together for corporate praise.

So following your example from Amos, I do not think that our instruction is to NOT sing until we begin working for justice; rather, I believe that they go hand in hand. We cannot truly be God's agents until we have sought Him out first and foremost, but we cannot truly serve Him without serving those in need and reaching out to the lost. The two go together.

[Dana Grant]

Lucas Finch quote: "I also agree that there is far too much individualism in praise and worship songs. This really isn't a new phenomenon, though. Two of my favorite hymns are written first person singular. "When I survey the wondrous cross . . ." "And can it be that I should gain . . ." These are easy enough to fix. The music leaders just need to pluralize whenever feasible."


I really don't understand what the problem is with this -- when I sing alone at my home, I use first person and possessive pronouns. However, when we sing as a GROUP or corporately in our church or at a musical concert or some other event of worship-- we also use first person and possessive pronouns -- we all understand that it is about US -- not just ME. Jesus loves ME, this I know -- when we all sing it, we know it is Jesus loves US, this we know. What is the big deal? We're singing it together, for Pete's sake........I love it that way, because it is personal and yet it is for everyone. Everyone in the entire world can personalize that Jesus loves them, me, him, you, her.....Jesus Loves me, this I know.....belongs to everyone.

Because Jesus DOES love ME. Little old me. And if I was the only one in the world, he would still love me -- just as if it was YOU, or HIM, or HER, or THEM. We can all personalize it to know that he loves ME...US. That fact alone makes me want to let every one know that they can experience that kind of personal love, as well......what is wrong with that??????



Scratching my head on this one........

Why can't we just praise the Lord with song and worship Him? Why do we have to analyze the music to death?

::::::::sigh:::::::::::

Dana

[John Kennedy]

So following your example from Amos, I do not think that our instruction is to NOT sing until we begin working for justice; rather, I believe that they go hand in hand. We cannot truly be God's agents until we have sought Him out first and foremost, but we cannot truly serve Him without serving those in need and reaching out to the lost. The two go together.

Or we can sing together as we embark on our mission:

"We will walk with each other, we will walk hand in hand."
.......And together we'll spread the news that God is in our land.
And they'll know we are Christians by our love..........

We will work with each other, we will work side by side
.............And we'll guard each one's dignity and save each one's pride."
And they'll know we are Christians by our love........"

[Lucas Finch]

Lucas Finch quote: "I also agree that there is far too much individualism in praise and worship songs. This really isn't a new phenomenon, though. Two of my favorite hymns are written first person singular. "When I survey the wondrous cross . . ." "And can it be that I should gain . . ." These are easy enough to fix. The music leaders just need to pluralize whenever feasible."


I really don't understand what the problem is with this -- when I sing alone at my home, I use first person and possessive pronouns. However, when we sing as a GROUP or corporately in our church or at a musical concert or some other event of worship-- we also use first person and possessive pronouns -- we all understand that it is about US -- not just ME. Jesus loves ME, this I know -- when we all sing it, we know it is Jesus loves US, this we know. What is the big deal? We're singing it together, for Pete's sake........I love it that way, because it is personal and yet it is for everyone. Everyone in the entire world can personalize that Jesus loves them, me, him, you, her.....Jesus Loves me, this I know.....belongs to everyone.

Because Jesus DOES love ME. Little old me. And if I was the only one in the world, he would still love me -- just as if it was YOU, or HIM, or HER, or THEM. We can all personalize it to know that he loves ME...US. That fact alone makes me want to let every one know that they can experience that kind of personal love, as well......what is wrong with that??????



Scratching my head on this one........

Why can't we just praise the Lord with song and worship Him? Why do we have to analyze the music to death?

::::::::sigh:::::::::::

Dana

I do agree with you on a certain level. I often think that too much nit-picking takes place and that we should just be able to sing songs that we believe to be heart-felt and praise Jesus. Largely my comments are either engaging on other things that have been posted here or were brought up in Ryan's blog.

In the case of "I" vs. "we", the idea is that when we worship corporately, we should truly worship corporately. The church is made up of individuals, but in the church we become something much more than just a loosely affiliated collection of individuals. Thus our corporate praise is best done as a collective rather than as individuals.

I went through a stage in which I would typically convert singulars to plurals when I sang songs, and I encourage those who feel the strongest about such things to do the same. However, I hardly do this anymore. Whether I am leading or participating in music, I typically keep the words of the original lyricist.