One of the worst "worship songs" I've ever heard was
the Famous One.
I almost never say the word HATE, but I think that's how I have to describe it......
One of the worst "worship songs" I've ever heard was
the Famous One.
I almost never say the word HATE, but I think that's how I have to describe it......
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 LaughingBill Morrison - "thanks" for this post
1 video? So much more efficient.Originally Posted by Hans Deventer
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!
Well, the ultimate "boyfriend/girlfriend song"....
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
There is clearly a distinct and deliberate emphasis on the overall Sovereignty of God (His fame, His glory, His renown, etc.) with Tomlin's songs. The Sovereignty of God is front and center. Sure, Wesleyans can find general harmony and agreement with this but that's not what's "front and center" in Weslyean (at least neo-Wesleyan) theology. That would be the Love of God - a love exclusively portrayed as as an inviting yearning, sinner-seeking, rather lovesick passion. Basically, a theology more interested in God's inner-emotional life than in his justice and glory. Hopefully that helps you see the distinction.
Incredible....... This must indeed be the ultimate "boyfriend/girlfriend song". Curious to see if anyone can beat this song.Well, the ultimate "boyfriend/girlfriend song"....
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
Actually, quite the opposite, and Wesley himself is very clear on this in his sermon against Calvinism. Wesleyanism is all about God's justice and God's glory, which is displayed in God's love.
God is just because God loves.
God is glorious because God loves.
For Wesleyans, Calvinist soteriology distorts God's love, making God unjust, and stripping God of God's glory.
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!Post Thanks / Like - 3 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Yeah, they're Calvinist too.
Yep, Calvinists also.
Yup. So is Derek Webb, who I think is probably the best songwriter in the Church right now. I can get on board with some songs, and not with others. It is what it is.
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
You must have missed the "neo-Wesleyan" part of my post. A kind of Rob Bell theology, if you will.
Actually, I think you're wrong about Crowder Band. I believe they are Arminian, though they're Baptist. I've never read anything in their songs which hinted at predestination, and I thought I had heard somewhere that they were not calvinists.
Regardless...
They can be Calvinists all they want. There is no Calvinism there, just good theology.
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!Post Thanks / Like - 2 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Rob Bell is not Wesleyan. I also know of no real "Wesleyan" theologians who would fit what you describe, "neo" or not.
- Ben
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death! And to those in the tombs, bestowing life!
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη ἐκ νεκρῶν, θανάτῳ θάνατον πατήσας! καὶ τοῖς ἐν τοῖς μνήμασι, ζωὴν χαρισάμενος!
I guess Marcus probably missed that
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Ah! I see what you did there! You went from saying that all of his songs are Calvinistic to saying that all of his songs come from a perspective of God's sovereignty. A bit of a difference (though typically Calvinists won't see it as they equate Calvinism with being concerned about God's sovereignty).
Rob Bell, Love WinsSo when the gospel is diminished to a question of whether or not a person will “get into heaven,” that reduces the good news to a ticket, a way to get past the bouncer and into the club. The good news is better than that.
Yeah, it sounds like a love letter to a boyfriend with whom she's had a fight. For someone not familiar with the psalms [which would be many people] this is too ambiguous. Even for me who is a voracious bible reader, this is still not apparent.About an invisible boyfriend?
To me, it echos the psalms of lament, with all of their cries of "How long, O Lord? Will you hide yourself forever?" and their commitment to trust God even when he's hidden.
I spend the length of the entire song and beyond trying to understand to whom she's talking in the first verse that I never hear the rest of the verses. Even when I have read the other verses, it still doesn't connect the romantic nature of the first verse with the rest of the song.
I'll take y'all's word that it refers to psalms of lament. It just is not apparent and still makes me think she's had a fight with her boyfriend.
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a
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Fair enough. If it makes it seem a little more appropriate, I have never seen this song done in a praise and worship setting. I saw BarlowGirl once in concert, and when they introduced it, they told a story that helped to set its context. I think that it involved Bonhoeffer, or a quote of his, or something, but I can't seem to dig it up. And for some reason I thought that the CD jacket had the story, so I went and dug the CD out of storage (I use only digital copies of stuff any more), but it isn't in there. But yeah, there is some context involved.
Rob Bell, Love WinsSo when the gospel is diminished to a question of whether or not a person will “get into heaven,” that reduces the good news to a ticket, a way to get past the bouncer and into the club. The good news is better than that.
I've only heard it on the radio which makes it even less obvious to whom the song refers. Since Christian love songs [to other humans] will play on the radio, I really have zero context with which to understand this.
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 1 John 3:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. 1 John 4:18a
Become an organ donor ~ donatelife.net ~ www.organdonor.gov
The ultimate Wesleyan theology hymn. Give me a congregation of about 250 singing this hymn in harmony any day.
Love Divine, All Loves Excelling:
Love divine, all loves excelling,
Joy of heaven to earth come down;
Fix in us thy humble dwelling;
All thy faithful mercies crown!
Jesus, Thou art all compassion,
Pure unbounded love Thou art;
Visit us with Thy salvation;
Enter every trembling heart.
Breathe, O breathe Thy loving Spirit,
Into every troubled breast!
Let us all in Thee inherit;
Let us find that second rest.
Take away our bent to sinning;
Alpha and Omega be;
End of faith, as its Beginning,
Set our hearts at liberty.
Come, Almighty to deliver,
Let us all Thy life receive;
Suddenly return and never,
Never more Thy temples leave.
Thee we would be always blessing,
Serve Thee as Thy hosts above,
Pray and praise Thee without ceasing,
Glory in Thy perfect love.
Finish, then, Thy new creation;
Pure and spotless let us be.
Let us see Thy great salvation
Perfectly restored in Thee;
Changed from glory into glory,
Till in heaven we take our place,
Till we cast our crowns before Thee,
Lost in wonder, love, and praise.
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I must have missed something. What is a neo Wesleyan? Also the number one accusation I hear Calvinists level at Rob Bell is of course universalism based on his book and in particular a quote where he asks "if God wants all to be saved, doesn't God get what God wants?" I find it humerous that if they are right, then they are basically up in arms about Rob Bell subscribing to determinism. I don't really see Wesleyanism of any kind fitting the bill there.
"Love without holiness disintegrates into sentimentality. Personal integrity is lost. But holiness without love is not holiness at all. In spite of its label, it displays harshness, judgmentalism, a critical spirit, and all its capacity for discrimination end in nit-picking and divisiveness."-Mildred Bangs WynkoopPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Laughing
Take a listen!
http://www.redmountainchurch.org/rmm...%281053%29.mp3
"Preach the gospel; if necessary use words" is like saying "feed the poor and; if necessary use food."
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Thanks George, I liked that version of "Love divine all loves excelling" a lot.
Nice! I love the nashville sound on that song. Is this your arrangement?
This is one of my favorites, but sadly most churches I have heard sing it only do the chorus. The verses are pretty theologically descriptive. Sure it is a bit repetitive at the end, but it does depict a fair bit of the story of the fall, as well as redemption.
When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain't just puttin' on the ritz
(our God is an awesome God)
There is thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fist
(our God is an awesome God)
Well, the Lord wasn't joking
When He kicked 'em out of Eden
It wasn't for no reason that He shed his blood
His return is very close and so you better be believing
that our God is an awesome God
REFRAIN
Our God(our God) is an awesome God
He reigns(He reigns) from heaven above
With wisdom(with wisdom) pow'r and love
our God is an awesome God
And when the sky was starless in the void of the night
(our God is an awesome God)
He spoke into the darkness and created the light
(our God is an awesome God)
Judgment and wrath he poured out on Sodom
Mercy and grace He gave us at the cross
I hope that we have not too quickly forgotten that
our God is an awesome God
Refrain x3
Our God is an awesome God
Our God is an awesome God
(Our God is an awesome God)
(Our God is an awesome God)
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Remember the first time I heard that with the verses (in Phoenix) ... Rich Mullins was OK. Recall, too, when hearing of his demise.
Life beats down and crushes the soul and art reminds you that you have one.
~ Stella Adler ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It takes a great deal of maturity to accept that trying to eliminate all risk eliminates life.
~ Susan Lapin ~
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