Debating Significant Theological Issues

[Bill Morrison]

In the current issue of Christianity Today (March 2012), in a discussion of problems faced by Christian colleges today, the President of Wheaton College (Philip Ryken) was asked what were the most signifcant theological issues he faced as president. His response named these as three of the biggest challenges:
1. Human sexuality and a Christian understanding of marriage and sexual behavior.
2. Human origins, particularly the historicity of Adam and Eve, but more generally questions related to Christianity and evolution, creation and evolution.
3. Not losing our zeal for evangelism, particularly for proclaiming the gospel in words as well as witnessing to the gospel in deeds.

My several years on Naznet have shown me that discussion here of any of these topics is likely to rather rapidly generate heat, controversy and borderline uncivil conversation.
And how can issues like these possibly be discussed at Nazarene schools where professors often have little or no job protection?

I'm wondering if we Nazarenes are just going to have to sit on the sidelines and allow those in other denominations to lead the way in dealing with these (and other) issues?

Thoughts?

BILL

[Steven Burton]

I disagree. I think it is important for us to deal with these issues at hand. It will just fester and grow into more of a problem with in the denomination. If we let other denominations call all the shots then should we not just let them decide what we should make our standards? I for one would rather try and solve the problem and not just sit there and let it fester and eventually just develop into to strong parties that want nothing to do with each other. Some times the right road is the one that get you beat up some.

[Todd Erickson]

I disagree. I think it is important for us to deal with these issues at hand. It will just fester and grow into more of a problem with in the denomination. If we let other denominations call all the shots then should we not just let them decide what we should make our standards? I for one would rather try and solve the problem and not just sit there and let it fester and eventually just develop into to strong parties that want nothing to do with each other. Some times the right road is the one that get you beat up some.

Er...What is it you're disagreeing with? Bill was asking a question, not making a statement.

He's saying that as a professor at a Nazarene college, he does not feel safe in engaging students openly on the questions which have been identified as most leading interest currently. Which probably means that the operating model is "ignore it, and maybe it will go away, as God intended".

Since we also are in an atmosphere where pastor's merely accused of indiscretion are immediately fired, we do seem to be in an unsafe territory for all leaders in the church right now.

[Steven Burton]

It was a response more to the second question which looks to me more like a statement with in the question itself.

[Billy Cox]

I'm wondering if we Nazarenes are just going to have to sit on the sidelines and allow those in other denominations to lead the way in dealing with these (and other) issues?

I suspect that most evangelical denominational colleges are in the same boat - with the tension between keeping the constituency happy by teaching students 'what' to think, versus teaching students 'how' to think, at the risk of them coming to the 'wrong' conclusions.

[Bob Hunter]

In the current issue of Christianity Today (March 2012), in a discussion of problems faced by Christian colleges today, the President of Wheaton College (Philip Ryken) was asked what were the most signifcant theological issues he faced as president. His response named these as three of the biggest challenges:
1. Human sexuality and a Christian understanding of marriage and sexual behavior.
2. Human origins, particularly the historicity of Adam and Eve, but more generally questions related to Christianity and evolution, creation and evolution.
3. Not losing our zeal for evangelism, particularly for proclaiming the gospel in words as well as witnessing to the gospel in deeds.

My several years on Naznet have shown me that discussion here of any of these topics is likely to rather rapidly generate heat, controversy and borderline uncivil conversation.
And how can issues like these possibly be discussed at Nazarene schools where professors often have little or no job protection?

I'm wondering if we Nazarenes are just going to have to sit on the sidelines and allow those in other denominations to lead the way in dealing with these (and other) issues?

Thoughts?

BILL

I would add at least one issue to that list; how we read the Bible. To what extent is the Bible inspired? How should we interpret the Bible?

When we answer these questions, it sheds a lot of light on how we approach the issues noted in the CT article by Wheaton's president.

I find it among my students at GCU. Some interpret the Bible very literally and their method of interpretation colors how they respond to issues like women in ministry, sex, creation, etc.

[Todd Erickson]

I went to Cedarville College, which is a Baptist college in Ohio. Recently, the student organization tried to bring Shane Claiborne to speak at their school, and there was an intense backlash from the board. Two professors left over the issue, and Claiborne had to address students outside of the college campus.

I know that while I was there, I had friends who were told that they would be expelled if they couldn't manage to handle their depression more easily.

At some level, college can be some sort of upheld ideal about 'what our youth should become" and this stands directly in the way of what is, and what needs to happen.

[Ian Gentles]

I think all subjects are vital.Todd, as to depression, most evengelicals shy away from subject. As one who suffered it horribly, trust me I speak from experiance.

[Charles W Christian]

I actually think Nazarene colleges, like other Evangelical colleges, are in the think of these three areas! Look at recent controversies and discussions regarding creation discussions (Olivet), Freedom Riders, etc. Like it or not, Nazarenes are not on the sidelines. However, I think we are always as prepared as we should be for these discussions because we are not as informed about our own doctrinal stances. We take our cues from other denominational "leaders" or spokespeople when it come to theology, instead of looking to our own Wesleyan heritage. It doesn't help that sometimes our leaders at all levels substitute political expediency, pop theology, or partisan politics for sound doctrinal instruction. In this way, we become our own worst enemy in dealing with these concerns....

Charles

[Billy Cox]

I actually think Nazarene colleges, like other Evangelical colleges, are in the think of these three areas! Look at recent controversies and discussions regarding creation discussions (Olivet), Freedom Riders, etc. Like it or not, Nazarenes are not on the sidelines.

Let's be real. If the colleges are not on the sidelines, it's because someone else has pushed them face first onto the playing field.

However, I think we are always as prepared as we should be for these discussions because we are not as informed about our own doctrinal stances. We take our cues from other denominational "leaders" or spokespeople when it come to theology, instead of looking to our own Wesleyan heritage. It doesn't help that sometimes our leaders at all levels substitute political expediency, pop theology, or partisan politics for sound doctrinal instruction. In this way, we become our own worst enemy in dealing with these concerns....

Denominational leaders are chosen/elected/appointed to serve the denomination. Doctrinal identity is just one of the tools in the toolbox.

[Charles W Christian]

I actually meant "not" as prepared as we should be, by the way. And yes, Billy, I think often we are forced into these kinds of discussions instead of being proactive.

[Jonathan Hooker]

Are we not called to be leaders rather than followers not just outside of the church but inside it as well? (I include denominationally run schools in the second category.) If enough of our professors would stand up and start dealing with these issues, the leadership of the college would have to start paying attention. Let me put it in context, I had an issue with a friend who fell into category 1 - having an issue with sexual orientation. The decision by the leadership of the school was to be "restorative" to this person, aka. giving them a hand slap and a don't do this again lecture. It happened again though and the initial response of the school leadership was to sweep it under the rug. It took my parents and myself contacting the president of the school as well as threatening to contact some friends of ours who were on the board of trustees to actually get any real action taken to really deal with this issue and help this person. The sad thing is, I knew that there were many more like this friend of mine who had the same issue.

Our professors, parents, board of trustees members, and even students need to step up and take the lead in this for our school, at the risk of their jobs as the case may be. But in talking with many pastors and trustees members off the Kansas City district but on the MNU region, they are equally frustrated with the status quo and I think you would find more support than you think. Also with the new president, I am hopeful that he works with the faculty and staff to help deal with these issues. We have to be bold because the longer we wait, the more students will slip through our fingers.

JH

P.S. If I ever heard of a professor getting let go over dealing with these topics, I would gladly raise cain across the board of trustees as well as the staff and faculty at any Nazarene school to make sure that the professor is supported for dealing with an issue of that importance.

[Craig Laughlin]

It took my parents and myself contacting the president of the school as well as threatening to contact some friends of ours who were on the board of trustees to actually get any real action taken to really deal with this issue and help this person.

I'm curious about what sort of help this person got as a result of your efforts?

[Billy Cox]

Our professors, parents, board of trustees members, and even students need to step up and take the lead in this for our school, at the risk of their jobs as the case may be. But in talking with many pastors and trustees members off the Kansas City district but on the MNU region, they are equally frustrated with the status quo and I think you would find more support than you think. Also with the new president, I am hopeful that he works with the faculty and staff to help deal with these issues. We have to be bold because the longer we wait, the more students will slip through our fingers.

I respect this sentiment, but my solution is for the denomination to divest itself from arenas where it has a conflict of interest. I have observed that denominational tentacles at the university level are corrosive to the pursuit of higher education.

I live on the MNU educational region and when the time comes, I will vigorously counteract MNU's efforts to recruit my daughter as a student. That's not a slam on MNU, its students or employees, but is simply me voting with my feet against the denomination's approach to higher education.

[Ian Gentles]

I respect this sentiment, but my solution is for the denomination to divest itself from arenas where it has a conflict of interest. I have observed that denominational tentacles at the university level are corrosive to the pursuit of higher education.

I live on the MNU educational region and when the time comes, I will vigorously counteract MNU's efforts to recruit my daughter as a student. That's not a slam on MNU, its students or employees, but is simply me voting with my feet against the denomination's approach to higher education.

Please explain? an ignorant Brit here.

[Billy Cox]

Please explain? an ignorant Brit here.

The tenor of this thread has been an observation that when those in Nazarene higher education have to choose between the good of their students and 'serving' the church, the church will not be denied. I'm okay with the denomination treating the colleges/universities as an incubator of bright young minds, some of whom will one day carry water for the organization, but I am not inclined to support that sort of so-called 'mission' in any way.

[Jonathan Hooker]

I respect this sentiment, but my solution is for the denomination to divest itself from arenas where it has a conflict of interest. I have observed that denominational tentacles at the university level are corrosive to the pursuit of higher education.

I live on the MNU educational region and when the time comes, I will vigorously counteract MNU's efforts to recruit my daughter as a student. That's not a slam on MNU, its students or employees, but is simply me voting with my feet against the denomination's approach to higher education.

But when it is these very institutions which are the only ones which provide a wesleyan-armenian theology (excluding other "denominational" institutions as you put it) where do you suggest our pastors and theological leaders go for training? I am not getting into the other degrees offered by the school which still provide a strong biblical and theological general course of study to the students.... Where do you suggest I send my children? To a state run school which presents any number of theological perspectives as fact? Or how about another denominational school, oh wait we already went there... Or finally a private institution which is biased any number of ways by the beliefs of it's staff or other leadership?

Where is a person to send his children to get a training that not only prepares them to work in the corporate marketplace but also gives them a firm Biblical worldview and theological understanding too?

What is the problem with the Nazarene church or any other denomination supporting higher education?

[Jonathan Hooker]

I'm curious about what sort of help this person got as a result of your efforts?

Without going into too much detail as I have been asked not to, regular counseling and very regular accountability was used as well as some disciplinary responses in order to protect others attending the school. But even in the disciplinary responses, there were efforts to help the student understand why this was happening and that there was grace to be had through Christ.

[Billy Cox]

But when it is these very institutions which are the only ones which provide a wesleyan-armenian theology (excluding other "denominational" institutions as you put it) where do you suggest our pastors and theological leaders go for training? I am not getting into the other degrees offered by the school which still provide a strong biblical and theological general course of study to the students.... Where do you suggest I send my children? To a state run school which presents any number of theological perspectives as fact? Or how about another denominational school, oh wait we already went there... Or finally a private institution which is biased any number of ways by the beliefs of it's staff or other leadership?

There is another way... It's called the denomination letting the school be the best school it can be and not trying to micromanage the curriculum and faculty.

Where is a person to send his children to get a training that not only prepares them to work in the corporate marketplace but also gives them a firm Biblical worldview and theological understanding too?

Oooh, you don't want to go there. Yes I know it sounds good in the brochure, but I think you would be hard-pressed to find compelling evidence that any of our schools imparts any consistent worldview or theological understanding.

What is the problem with the Nazarene church or any other denomination supporting higher education?

Good question. The more accurate description would be that the denomination expects to be supported by higher education. In my view, academic freedom and higher education are inseparable. If the denomination is suspicious of or even hostile to academic freedom, then its so-called 'support' of higher education is little more than a photo-opp.

[Jonathan Hooker]

There is another way... It's called the denomination letting the school be the best school it can be and not trying to micromanage the curriculum and faculty.

Really. Just like Notre Dame, Harvard, Yale, and so many others... That would turn out real well... Those schools have little to no theology backbone. Their theological teaching changes with the tide. Yeah, that is where I 'really' want to send my kids... NOT! The fact that our denomination has a role in determining the curriculum and faculty of our schools helps keep them in check. It is a checks and balances system. Where do you get the idea that our denomination micromanages our school? Last I checked, the school faculty is still in charge of determining what curriculum is used and who is hired as staff and faculty. The oversight by a board of trustees is standard for any school not just a denominationally run school. The fact that there are a mix of lay and pastoral leadership on that board should show that they have the makings of a good solid leadership team. What is your suggestion? Maybe to toss out all oversight by the denomination that started the school and let the leadership of that school pick the theology and curriculum that the professor wants to teach? Yeah... That's going to work out 'Really' well...

Oooh, you don't want to go there. Yes I know it sounds good in the brochure, but I think you would be hard-pressed to find compelling evidence that any of our schools imparts any consistent worldview or theological understanding.

Maybe they have struggles with a consistent worldview or theology, but at least they are trying. I know many on the board of trustees for MNU that are working hard to get this to be consistent with the doctrines of the Nazarene church. If you compare it with the above schools, at least they have a common thought and are trying to be consistent.

Good question. The more accurate description would be that the denomination expects to be supported by higher education. In my view, academic freedom and higher education are inseparable. If the denomination is suspicious of or even hostile to academic freedom, then its so-called 'support' of higher education is little more than a photo-opp.

So oversight is a bad thing and we should let the whims of a professor guide our "higher education"? Have you even thought about the repercussions of allowing "academic freedom" to truly reign? Every school in existence today has some sort of oversight. Every successful organization has oversight. What makes a school any different? And what is the problem with a school, who's main purpose is to train men and women to impact the world for God in their different fields of expertise, having a board of trustees that is composed of religious leadership as well as other successful businessmen leading said school? Last I checked, it makes sense...

[Billy Cox]

So oversight is a bad thing and we should let the whims of a professor guide our "higher education"? Have you even thought about the repercussions of allowing "academic freedom" to truly reign? Every school in existence today has some sort of oversight. Every successful organization has oversight. What makes a school any different? And what is the problem with a school, who's main purpose is to train men and women to impact the world for God in their different fields of expertise, having a board of trustees that is composed of religious leadership as well as other successful businessmen leading said school? Last I checked, it makes sense...

I allow that there is a time and a place for a school that places sectarian/denominational identity above the pursuit of knowledge and/or truth. If the shoe fits, wear it. I'm just saying that it doesn't fit me or my house these days.

This is coming full circle back to what Bill Morrison said in his original post; namely that the most critical challenges for Christian colleges are also the subjects most likely to get a faculty member in hot water with the board of trustees.

1. Human sexuality and a Christian understanding of marriage and sexual behavior.
2. Human origins, particularly the historicity of Adam and Eve, but more generally questions related to Christianity and evolution, creation and evolution.
3. Not losing our zeal for evangelism, particularly for proclaiming the gospel in words as well as witnessing to the gospel in deeds.

So for all the marketing-speak about shaping worldviews and preparing men and women to impact the world for God, the denomination (as manifested by a board of trustees and the occasional BGS intervention) is throwing those students to the wolves by punishing faculty who dare address these issues in any meaningful way. It sounds like it is no less morally bankrupt than the schools not chained to a church hierarchy.

[Steven Burton]

Maybe we should come up with a new governmental system for our schools. I have never really like boards of trustees anyways. I have never found trustee to be the right word for their position in the first place. More like board of no we don't like that and are not giving you anymore for it because we don't like the changing of the times.

[Craig Laughlin]

Without going into too much detail as I have been asked not to, regular counseling and very regular accountability was used as well as some disciplinary responses in order to protect others attending the school. But even in the disciplinary responses, there were efforts to help the student understand why this was happening and that there was grace to be had through Christ.

Thanks Jonathan. Unfortunately this is one of those things that is pretty hard to deal with on Naznet. I absolutely understand why talking about the specifics might be inappropriate and why you were told not to talk about it. However, the net result is that you have cited this example as a more appropriate way of dealing with the situation but when I ask for the specifics you offer only broad generalizations. Counseling, accountability and a disciplinary response which you believe to be redemptive are what you describe. This is really not enough for me to form an opinion about the before and after responses to the situation.

I certainly hope redemption was the primary goal in all of this but in my experience actions taken because of strong outside pressure are rarely the best response. We don't know what the offense was or the specifics of the responses so it makes it pretty hard to tell what was and was not appropriate. Thanks for trying.

[Billy Cox]

Maybe we should come up with a new governmental system for our schools. I have never really like boards of trustees anyways. I have never found trustee to be the right word for their position in the first place. More like board of no we don't like that and are not giving you anymore for it because we don't like the changing of the times.

The board of trustees is a mechanism for keeping the college beholden to the local churches on that region. In my view, they generally are pretty harmless, but are prone to groupthink and are easily cowed by a DS or well-known pastor with a burr under his saddle. I have also been dismayed at some of the people I have known on boards of trustees who have a very low view of teaching/learning; subscribing to the "those who can, do, those who can't, teach" theory.

[Ryan Scott]

Of course, a lot of these issues vary in seriousness, usually depending on the campus's proximity to Kansas City.

[Billy Cox]

Of course, a lot of these issues vary in seriousness, usually depending on the campus's proximity to Kansas City.

This is true. Academic freedom may very well go unchecked on one of the coasts before a GS puts the hammer down.

[Ryan Scott]

This is true. Academic freedom may very well go unchecked on one of the coasts before a GS puts the hammer down.

In some places, the influence of KC is actually weakened by strong, committed Boards of Trustees.

Having lived down the street from MNU for three years and in the KC area for six, I certainly understand that it is more of an up front issue there. And while ENC hasn't been free from this sort of denominational "interference" (for lack of a better term), it does operate pretty independently. The people who make decisions are generally people who are committed to the school, one with a very strong history of academic freedom.

I think there have been times when the denomination tried to bring ENC in line with some of the ways other schools operate, but that New England stubbornness goes a long way.

I also wonder how much the overall cohesiveness of the institution has to do with how this plays out. My observations are that some of the schools are really just a loose conglomeration of very independent entities, whereas others have a pretty straightforward mission imbued through all facets of the school (others are somewhere in between). I imagine those places with an overall structure that everyone buys into maintain better independence because there's few, if any, malcontents with real power.

[Benjamin Burch]

Really. Just like Notre Dame, Harvard, Yale, and so many others... That would turn out real well... Those schools have little to no theology backbone. Their theological teaching changes with the tide. Yeah, that is where I 'really' want to send my kids... NOT! The fact that our denomination has a role in determining the curriculum and faculty of our schools helps keep them in check. It is a checks and balances system. Where do you get the idea that our denomination micromanages our school? Last I checked, the school faculty is still in charge of determining what curriculum is used and who is hired as staff and faculty. The oversight by a board of trustees is standard for any school not just a denominationally run school. The fact that there are a mix of lay and pastoral leadership on that board should show that they have the makings of a good solid leadership team. What is your suggestion? Maybe to toss out all oversight by the denomination that started the school and let the leadership of that school pick the theology and curriculum that the professor wants to teach? Yeah... That's going to work out 'Really' well...



Maybe they have struggles with a consistent worldview or theology, but at least they are trying. I know many on the board of trustees for MNU that are working hard to get this to be consistent with the doctrines of the Nazarene church. If you compare it with the above schools, at least they have a common thought and are trying to be consistent.



So oversight is a bad thing and we should let the whims of a professor guide our "higher education"? Have you even thought about the repercussions of allowing "academic freedom" to truly reign? Every school in existence today has some sort of oversight. Every successful organization has oversight. What makes a school any different? And what is the problem with a school, who's main purpose is to train men and women to impact the world for God in their different fields of expertise, having a board of trustees that is composed of religious leadership as well as other successful businessmen leading said school? Last I checked, it makes sense...

I think your entire post misses the point of education. Our schools don't teach theology to the students, and they certainly don't teach students to believe what Nazarenes do. Academic freedom is certainly in play, all across the board.

Theology I & II - We were taught the different ways in which different parts of the Church has dealt with a wide range of theological issues. From there, we had to write a paper at the end of the class describing and expressing our beliefs on each major theological issue. You were graded on how you wrote it, not on your beliefs. One student turned in a 25-page paper on TULIP Calvinism. He got an A.

400-level BIBLE - We were taught what different scholars in the field were saying about the particular book(s), and we were taught how to research and come to our own conclusions. Papers were graded on your ability to interact with scholarship and defend your own position. Never once were we taught to read it as "Nazarenes."

Doctrine of Holiness - We walked through the CotN's history in terms of this doctrine. We were expected to deal criticially with the ideas throughout the course of the class. Our paper was on "Is Christian perfection possible?" A 15-page paper defending the answer "no" was completely acceptable.

We simply don't teach our kids to be Nazarene. Academic and Christian freedom is the rule of the day in CotN colleges and universities. It simply is what it is and will always be that way.

[Billy Cox]

I think your entire post misses the point of education. Our schools don't teach theology to the students, and they certainly don't teach students to believe what Nazarenes do. Academic freedom is certainly in play, all across the board.

Theology I & II - We were taught the different ways in which different parts of the Church has dealt with a wide range of theological issues. From there, we had to write a paper at the end of the class describing and expressing our beliefs on each major theological issue. You were graded on how you wrote it, not on your beliefs. One student turned in a 25-page paper on TULIP Calvinism. He got an A.

400-level BIBLE - We were taught what different scholars in the field were saying about the particular book(s), and we were taught how to research and come to our own conclusions. Papers were graded on your ability to interact with scholarship and defend your own position. Never once were we taught to read it as "Nazarenes."

Doctrine of Holiness - We walked through the CotN's history in terms of this doctrine. We were expected to deal criticially with the ideas throughout the course of the class. Our paper was on "Is Christian perfection possible?" A 15-page paper defending the answer "no" was completely acceptable.

We simply don't teach our kids to be Nazarene. Academic and Christian freedom is the rule of the day in CotN colleges and universities. It simply is what it is and will always be that way.

I daresay that a couple of the schools in the central timezone are not as free as what you are describing. However, I appreciate hearing that schools beyond my backyard are more respectful of knowledge and the pursuit of truth.

[Benjamin Burch]

I daresay that a couple of the schools in the central timezone are not as free as what you are describing. However, I appreciate hearing that schools beyond my backyard are more respectful of knowledge and the pursuit of truth.

Well, understand that I'm describing Olivet, which is in the heart of the Central time zone!

[Bill Morrison]

Well, understand that I'm describing Olivet, which is in the heart of the Central time zone!

But unfortunately our Alma Mater was the venue for the recent attacks on a dedicated long-serving Biology professor for his views on origins: no violations of the Manual or of school policy at all, just a few unhappy but very vocal students, pastors, churches on the zone, and influential Board members who could not give him the freedom to present his Christian and academic views on the subject. The AAUP even felt compelled to look into the situation at Olivet. (And for those who do not know, my personal views are NOT in line with his at all. I just don't appreciate the treatment he got when he tried to honestly grapple with an important but controversial issue.) This just reinforces the point raised in my original post: how can professors at Nazarene schools deal with the issues mentioned by Dr. Ryken when their jobs are constantly in jeopardy if they discuss these things in any depth at all with their students? Someone like Olivet's Dr. Colling can quickly get in deep trouble presenting theistic evolution views (views probably shared by the majority of Naznetters) while a literal Creationist like myself can just as quickly get called into the Dean's office if any constituent complains about them (we have even had several Naznetters imply in other threads that they would not send their child to a school where a YEC like me was teaching.) IMO Nazarene universities are driven by a strong fear of losing ANY students or constituent support over controversial issues (and note I am NOT talking about professors violating the Manual or any agreed Nazarene doctrine: that is a different issue).
So again I applaud Wheaton's Dr. Ryken for raising the issue in Christianity Today.........and I hope he is having better success there in dealing with controversial topics than seems to be happening in some Nazarene schools.

BILL

[Billy Cox]

Someone like Olivet's Dr. Colling can quickly get in deep trouble presenting theistic evolution views (views probably shared by the majority of Naznetters) while a literal Creationist like myself can just as quickly get called into the Dean's office if any constituent complains about them (we have even had several Naznetters imply in other threads that they would not send their child to a school where a YEC like me was teaching.)

Maybe you have someone else in mind, but I can't recall anyone else other than me saying that they wouldn't send their child to MNU for whatever reason. Just to be clear, my statement has far more to do with the denomination's indoctrinational approach to higher education than the fact that MNU has a YEC on the science faculty. My commitment to academic freedom allows me to accept a YEC as long as the person is not an anti-intellectual charlatan. (which I have no reason to think you are)

IMO Nazarene universities are driven by a strong fear of losing ANY students or constituent support over controversial issues (and note I am NOT talking about professors violating the Manual or any agreed Nazarene doctrine: that is a different issue).

So why not address the root of that fear? Ryken identifies the landmines in Christian higher eduction without bothering to call out those who plant the landmines. It might be good therapy, but ultimately sheds no light.

[Billy Cox]

Well, understand that I'm describing Olivet, which is in the heart of the Central time zone!

I've seen enough people quietly employing the vaunted 'good apple strategy' in unexpected places, that I am no longer surprised at the occasional point of light.