General Assembly 2013

[Wilson Deaton]

I used to be completely in agreement with the idea of spreading it around. I often voted for the person I thought who could use the perk and wouldn't be able to afford to go on their own. I went so far as to decline nomination because I knew I was attending anyway.

However, lately I've been rethinking. Obviously, "attending" and "being a delegate" are not the same thing, but only lately has that mattered to me. With some of the things happening (concerned Nazirenes, inerrancy debate, etc.), I for the first time, really want to make sure our delegate is informed and has the "right" views. (By "right," of course, I mean someone who aligns with my views--afterall, it is MY vote I'm talking about). Thus, if the small church guy without much money, who could use the opportunity, happens to be an undercover fundy, he won't get my vote.

Wilson

[Jon Twitchell]

Being married to someone who served as a delegate, I'm not entirely sure that "perk" is really helpful language.

Perhaps it's not the case for everyone, but having seen Melody at work, I suspect that most delegates take their work very seriously. There are binders full of information to read and understand... and committee meetings to spend hours in... and all of this before the lengthy days of general business sessions. Serving as a delegate is substantially different from attending.

I think that in 2009, I got to spend more time with Jeremy Scott than with my wife.

[Kevin Rector]

Having been around the Church of the Nazarene since 1943, and have attended several GAs I have noticed that you can predict those who will be elected or rather appointed to be delegates.
The same pastors their wives, the same lay people and their spouse.

I was a delegate to the NYI convention last go around, I can virtually guarantee that I won't be a delegate to anything this go around. So it's not always the same old same old.

[Hans Deventer]

I'd love to meet you, Hans.

Same here, Rich!

[Hans Deventer]

Having been around the Church of the Nazarene since 1943, and have attended several GAs I have noticed that you can predict those who will be elected or rather appointed to be delegates.
The same pastors their wives, the same lay people and their spouse.

Gerald, at the GA's that I've attended, they always tested the voting system by having the delegates indicate how many GA's they have attended as delegate. I'm one of those weirdos who actually writes it down. In 2009, there were 408 new delegates, and 516 who had come for a 2nd time or more. And out of the 5 times I've been elected, Hannie has been with me twice, no more. And not as delegate so I hope her presence hasn't bothered you.

Also, for the 1997 GA, the very first time our district got to send a lay delegate, I was the only candidate, I'll admit. Ever since, it was a true election though. This time, we had 5 lay candidates for 2 places, and 3 ministerial candidates for 1 place. One of the ministerial delegates actually was the wife of our DS, who is an ordained elder. She was not elected.

[Lucas Finch]

Over the weekend we just had our NYI convention on the Rocky Mt. District. We only send one person to Global NYI in each category (ministerial, lay, and youth, plus the DP). I missed being the ministerial delegate by one vote, but my friend who was elected said that there's a good chance he won't be able to make it. So I might possibly be out there next year.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Gerald, at the GA's that I've attended, they always tested the voting system by having the delegates indicate how many GA's they have attended as delegate. I'm one of those weirdos who actually writes it down. In 2009, there were 408 new delegates, and 516 who had come for a 2nd time or more.

That stat is significant, but would be moreso had not there been a large number of seats that hadn't been there before. In North America, there are a hundred or so individuals that have been delegates repeatedly. That may not, however, be detrimental.

At the risk of coming across pious, praying for delegate elections, and the GA is something we all can do, delegate or not. Wouldn't it be great if the Holy Spirit came in a powerful way over the assembly, manifesting in a way that Nazarenes from hundreds of different cultures could recognize and embrace? I wonder what it would look like.

[Billy Cox]

At the risk of coming across pious, praying for delegate elections, and the GA is something we all can do, delegate or not. Wouldn't it be great if the Holy Spirit came in a powerful way over the assembly, manifesting in a way that Nazarenes from hundreds of different cultures could recognize and embrace? I wonder what it would look like.

So you're suggesting that it hasn't happened at General Assembly before?

[Billy Cox]

I think that in 2009, I got to spend more time with Jeremy Scott than with my wife.

What, did you lose a bet?

[Hans Deventer]

So you're suggesting that it hasn't happened at General Assembly before?

Wow, do you have all the GA's and how they went in your head? I would not be able to answer that question.

[Billy Cox]

Wow, do you have all the GA's and how they went in your head? I would not be able to answer that question.

It's a real question, and since Dennis posed it, the scope of experience would not include all GA's for all time.

[Ed DiSante]

Marian, a few things: there is very little in downtown Indy that I long to see, and shops are not a part of that. And I don't care much for shopping at all, where ever that may be.

The DiSantes plan to be there...Did spend a week in Indy one night--on a pass through when when I was doing Deputation many moons ago. Will be great to see you again Hans

[Hans Deventer]

That stat is significant, but would be moreso had not there been a large number of seats that hadn't been there before.

Not THAT many, Dennis. Checked my delegate's Handbooks:

GA 2005 - 1001 delegates registered.
GA 2001 - 989 delegates registered.
GA 1997 - 904 delegates voted in the elections of the GS's.

[Dennis M. Scott]

Not THAT many, Dennis. Checked my delegate's Handbooks:

GA 2005 - 1001 delegates registered.
GA 2001 - 989 delegates registered.
GA 1997 - 904 delegates voted in the elections of the GS's.

I stand corrected. I was thinking that representation was decreased from North America, as delegations from outside NA increased.

[Hans Deventer]

I stand corrected. I was thinking that representation was decreased from North America, as delegations from outside NA increased.

Well, the thing is that the number of non-US delegates doesn't rise that fast. Of course we hear about the enormous church growth in Africa etc, but we've made sure in 1997 that they only get a vote when they are paying the money. (I hate to sound like Billy, but it's true )

So my hope is that at this GA, they'll get more room to manage their own business.

[John F Martin]

When I first joined the faculty at Bethany and it was foune out that I had never visited the KC HQ I was asked how I expected to get into Heaven if I had never been to the New Jerusalem.

Hi Jim, from a fellow BNC-er, what did you teach & when? I learned something new: Didn't realize that was in your past.

[Ryan Scott]

Well, the thing is that the number of non-US delegates doesn't rise that fast. Of course we hear about the enormous church growth in Africa etc, but we've made sure in 1997 that they only get a vote when they are paying the money. (I hate to sound like Billy, but it's true)

So my hope is that at this GA, they'll get more room to manage their own business.

Not to mention that 20% of the non-us delegates who do manage to get elected can't get a visa to get into the US (a problem that GA in Toronto, for example, would solve).

[Hans Deventer]

Not to mention that 20% of the non-us delegates who do manage to get elected can't get a visa to get into the US (a problem that GA in Toronto, for example, would solve).

Ryan, I'll apologize even more, but it is clear to me the Church don't care. We rather maintain the unbiblically huge distinction between clergy and laity than have fair representation in our deciscion making processes. Although I really enjoyed my first GA back in 1997, this shocking deciscion was like a gunshot that still rings in my ears.

And so our little district, so fortunate as to have money, has 4 delegates to represent a little over 2000 people. While hundreds of thousands Nazarenes who are less fortunate economicaly get to send their non voting DS. I don't know what one should call that, but it is not democracy in any shape or form. Perhaps oligarchy?

[Billy Cox]

Ryan, I'll apologize even more, but it is clear to me the Church don't care. We rather maintain the unbiblically huge distinction between clergy and laity than have fair representation in our deciscion making processes. Although I really enjoyed my first GA back in 1997, this shocking deciscion was like a gunshot that still rings in my ears.

And so our little district, so fortunate as to have money, has 4 delegates to represent a little over 2000 people. While hundreds of thousands Nazarenes who are less fortunate economicaly get to send their non voting DS. I don't know what one should call that, but it is not democracy in any shape or form. Perhaps oligarchy?

I have long given up on the idea that General Assembly is a democratic process. I figure that if my district is over-represented and much of the money spent on GA that doesn't enrich the city of Indianapolis finds its way back into the Olathe economy, then there must be some districts (maybe most of them) that get little or no Kingdom value from attending.

I think that the 1997 vote may have been the denomination's "jump the shark" moment in which a majority of the delegates made an utter mockery of the work done by the Commission on the International Church...unless of course the Commission was seeking to keep the American clergy in charge of the money.

Hans, you may hate to sound like me (and you're surely not alone), but if I were to hear more Nazarenes in places of influence sounding like you and then following suit in real actions, maybe I would reconsider my jaundiced opinions about the denomination's leadership.

[Hans Deventer]

Hans, you may hate to sound like me (and you're surely not alone), but if I were to hear more Nazarenes in places of influence sounding like you and then following suit in real actions, maybe I would reconsider my jaundiced opinions about the denomination's leadership.

Billy, you know I'm not scared to submit resolutions to the GA. But this one seems so ingrained in the DNA of the church that I frankly do not have the hope needed to submit one. But I do not understand it. We nowhere have equal lay/clergy representation in the local church. There is none in the District Assembly or the district conventions. There is none in the Board of General Superintendents. Why on earth should it be in the GA and the General Board? In my view, this principle addresses a none existent problem and causes us to fail to recognize a very existent problem.

Now I could submit a resolution to tweak the election system of delegates somewhat. But that still would not address the fundamental problem. But to change THAT, a much more fundamental approach would be needed and I simply lack the faith for that. So I apologize for failing you in that respect.

My only hope is that sheer numbers and economics will eventually kill the GA as we know it today, thus effectively diminishing the problem. If districts get more authority, the problem is solved.

[Ryan Scott]

I suspect, initially, the clergy/lay representation was to ensure that enough trained clergy would be present to keep the uneducated laity from changing the articles of faith to something we don't actually believe.

I'm not sure which group needs the balancing, though.

[Hans Deventer]

I suspect, initially, the clergy/lay representation was to ensure that enough trained clergy would be present to keep the uneducated laity from changing the articles of faith to something we don't actually believe.

I'm not sure which group needs the balancing, though.

And it doesn't matter. The GA tends to refer any resolution on the articles of faith to a comittee. So the GA basically makes decisions on issues that should be dealt with at a lower level, while considering itself unqualified to make those it should. That's why I really believe the whole thing should be set up quite differently.

[Ryan Scott]

And it doesn't matter. The GA tends to refer any resolution on the articles of faith to a comittee. So the GA basically makes decisions on issues that should be dealt with at a lower level, while considering itself unqualified to make those it should. That's why I really believe the whole thing should be set up quite differently.

I think we should randomly select 800 members from the roles internationally and allow them to make all the decisions. Perhaps that might encourage local congregations to take more care in how they manage their membership.

[Jim Franklin]

Perhaps all NazNetters in attendance could gather together on the 26th and give a "Happy Birthday" shout out for this old geezer's 75th. Thanking you in advance.

[Roy Richardson]

I'd love to meet you, Hans. I'll likely be there for the conventions & might be there for the assembly business. We'll see.

I second Rich's desire to meet up with you

[Hans Deventer]

I second Rich's desire to meet up with you

Well, I crossed the point "District Assembly willing, I'll be there". So now it's up to "God willing"

[Benjamin Burch]

Depending upon school decisions by that point, I may very well be within driving distance.

[Martijn van Beveren]

Dear brothers and sisters, I am exited to be elected for the NYI convention. I am also planning to stay the entire GA. It's not something you get to experience every day. Next to that, Joanne (my wife, and chairwoman of the dist. publ. brd.) will come along also. It would be great to meet you all!

[Hans Deventer]

Dear brothers and sisters, I am exited to be elected for the NYI convention. I am also planning to stay the entire GA. It's not something you get to experience every day. Next to that, Joanne (my wife, and chairwoman of the dist. publ. brd.) will come along also. It would be great to meet you all!

I didn't know you planned to stay. Cool! Last time, we had a NazNet bench, it was a great place to hang out! As is of course the NazNet stand. Sometimes I think it's almost more for those who are already NazNetters, than those who might be interested in joining

[Marissa Lynn Coblentz]

I didn't know you planned to stay. Cool! Last time, we had a NazNet bench, it was a great place to hang out! As is of course the NazNet stand. Sometimes I think it's almost more for those who are already NazNetters, than those who might be interested in joining

The Lynn family used the Naznet booth as a default meeting place. If we couldn't find each other, we just went to the Naznet booth, and everyone eventually showed up there. In the meantime, it was great to meet Naznetters, and of course, Scott is always fun to hang out with.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

The Lynn family used the Naznet booth as a default meeting place. If we couldn't find each other, we just went to the Naznet booth, and everyone eventually showed up there. In the meantime, it was great to meet Naznetters, and of course, Scott is always fun to hang out with.

Yes, I'm generally known as a fun guy. It's probably my finest trait - right after my obvious humility.

[Marsha Lynn]

Depending upon school decisions by that point, I may very well be within driving distance.

Aren't you within driving distance now?

[Hans Deventer]

Aren't you within driving distance now?

He may be, but at least I am certainly not

[Benjamin Burch]

Aren't you within driving distance now?

I assume it is a subjective idea. For me personally, 4,000 miles (round-trip) is not "driving distance" for non-essential activity.

[Ryan Scott]

I assume it is a subjective idea. For me personally, 4,000 miles (round-trip) is not "driving distance" for non-essential activity.

We did about 3,000 miles round trip the last time. It's fun.

[Heidi Anderson]

One of the best parts of 2009 was the NazNet booth. It was fun to hang out and see folks and I loved meeting Scott's wife Jackie! Hope to see you all in 2013!

[Benjamin Burch]

We did about 3,000 miles round trip the last time. It's fun.

(1) Distance qua distance really is not the issue. It is the money it costs to make such a distant travel.
(2) I'm not sure I have another Nazarene friend here to make it a "we" type of trip. Who knows, maybe.

[Marsha Lynn]

Aren't you within driving distance now?

I assume it is a subjective idea. For me personally, 4,000 miles (round-trip) is not "driving distance" for non-essential activity.

You're right, of course. I was just messin' with you. That comment was the echo of a friend who has reminded me more than once that everywhere is within walking distance if you have enough time. (Of course, there's an unspoken assumption that we're talking about places connected by land.)

My general rule of thumb for "driving distance" is spending more time at the destination than in the car.

Marsha

[Kevin Rector]

We did about 3,000 miles round trip the last time. It's fun.

Yeah, we did close to 3,000 miles round trip too... with four kids 5 and under in the van.

[G R 'Scott' Cundiff]

One of the best parts of 2009 was the NazNet booth. It was fun to hang out and see folks and I loved meeting Scott's wife Jackie! Hope to see you all in 2013!

Heidi, I remember Jackie talking about how much fun she had getting to know you - so the feeling was mutual.