Is anyone aware of resolutions being submitted to the GA?
Is anyone aware of resolutions being submitted to the GA?
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
Anything that moves us toward internationalism. Especially the "every member's vote counts the same" rather than only the rich countries votes counting. Additionally I think the basic rules need to changed so that the General Assembly can be done via electronic networking and voting. Folks could gather at regions and then be connected electronically. Voting would take longer as we waited for those areas that are asleep to vote but it would be a much fairer system. 1/3 ? of Nazarenes live in the US. Time to come to grips with that.
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Taking it a step further, anything that takes us from an inward focus to an outward one.Originally Posted by Craig Laughlin
I'd even go as far as having everyone vote at the same time.
In 2009, NYI did this with 8 (I think, might have been fewer) sites all around the world. I remember the delegates in India voting in the early morning hours since that is when business was being conducted in Orlando, FL.
If I were a delegate to that convention again, I'd be fine staying up past bedtime to do denominational business. We have incredible technology available to us these days...let's take advantage of that!
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I'd like to see Hans resubmit his resolution about the advance publication of resolutions.
I think it's important that people are able to discuss and debate at home... in local churches... at district gatherings... with the elected delegates... and even on the internet. I think that the elected delegates ought to be able to solicit feedback from their districts... and to do so really requires the resolutions to be made public.
Grace and Peace,
Jon Twitchell
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In addition to advance publication of resolutions, I think there ought to be a requirement for publishing committee decisions. I like the model of the Supreme Court where one opinion is written for the majority (explaining their decision) and one is written for the minority (why they objected). I think this would go a long way to showing transparency and gaining trust.
Interesting. I like the idea in thought. I think in practice it could be quite cumbersome for an opinion on every decision. If we did adopt something like this, I would suggest that the opinions be written anonymously, not to hide, but in order to avoid influence by name recognition. Also it would allow people to perhaps change their minds in the future without having to worry about having a negative reputation. For example, if I wrote an opinion on why I disagreed with a resolution not adopted by the committee I would not want to be forever known by the entire denomination as the one guy who disagreed with the committee.
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I think the published committee vote is good enough, especially for the sheer volume of resolutions they go through in a short amount of time.
...just my $.02.
One resolution I'd like to see is a small change to Article XVI
I'd resolve to remove the last four words "suffer eternally in hell" and be replaced with "be hopelessly and eternally lost."
Reasons: 1) Consistency, the same phrase is used in Article VII on prevenient grace and while similar the phrases do not mean exactly the same thing. 2) Scriptural Authority - scripture talks about the finally impenitent being hopelessly and eternally lost, but in some places refers to punishment and in others doesn't mention it. To be consistent with the scriptural witness, we should allow for differences on the specifics of that end.
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And you think it is a small change? I've thought of proposing it, even drafted a resolution. But although I've submitted several to the GA, I have not dared to do so when it comes to this subject.
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
I think it's small given the consistency with the other article.
...just my $.02.
Well, please try to get it through your district's committee of delegates!
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
I might give it a try. You never know, we could probably find five individual delegates to submit the resolution outside the district process.
...just my $.02.
I doubt we'll ever get the hell out of the Manual.
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We could make it "be hopelessly and eternally lost in hell" if you really think it would sell better.
...just my $.02.
It probably would. We Christians want hell to be hot and long. Could you work something about "the worm dieth not" in?
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Would be much better!
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
It seems rather difficult to consider putting forth resolutions when it appears that the entire manual may get a major overhaul by Dave's committee.
Not the constitution, articles of faith, agreed statement of belief or covenant of christian character; they're really only working to redo the organizational sections and perhaps the covenant of christian conduct.
...just my $.02.
The more fire and brimstone, the better! Let's make those wretched sinners suffer long and hard!
Rob Bell, Love WinsSo when the gospel is diminished to a question of whether or not a person will “get into heaven,” that reduces the good news to a ticket, a way to get past the bouncer and into the club. The good news is better than that.
Yeah. And God forbid He'd have mercy on those who don't deserve it!!!!!!!!!!
Or...... wait a minute...... mercy.......... don't deserve.........
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Praying, 1 LaughingBilly Cox - thanks for this funny post
Indeed.
Rob Bell, Love WinsSo when the gospel is diminished to a question of whether or not a person will “get into heaven,” that reduces the good news to a ticket, a way to get past the bouncer and into the club. The good news is better than that.
I think that NazNet is the most democratic thing going on in the Church of the Nazarene. I am aware of no other venue in which rank and file Nazarenes have access to delegates, with the opportunity to discuss the business to be conducted at GA.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
- C.S. Lewis
This may be the case, but NazNet has graciously and willingly complied with the General Church's request that resolutions not be published.
Now... historically some delegate out there has leaked the resolutions onto the internet, and so we've considered it open season for discussion. But NazNet has not (at least not 4 years ago) hosted the documents and made them available. My support is for the resolution that was submitted four years ago (and defeated unanimously in committee), that the resolutions be made public.
Grace and Peace,
Jon Twitchell
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Which is a perfect example of why a rational ought to be published with the decision...
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That's my denomination... Still living with the belief that they control the flow of information.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us wthout end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
- C.S. LewisPost Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Praying, 0 Laughing
My Very Humble Opinion is that the "resolution process" will not survive much longer. It is much too North American.
I agree but I think for a different reason. I don't think secrecy is appropriate in a church government. I don't think there is a truly acceptable reason for not being totally transparent (executive decisions concerning discliplining individuals by name excepted).
Thank God, that document has, to be best of my knowledge, absolutely nothing to say about dams.
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So, funny story. I got a phone call today from a member of my district's GA resolution committee. Apparently someone on the district (a district I've only lived on three months and am still in the process of transferring membership and credentials to) took my resolution from this thread and formally submitted it to the committee. My name isn't on it, necessarily, but it was attached to it during discussion.
They're going to discuss and decide on whether to put it forward tomorrow. He didn't think there was a great chance of it getting passed (although perhaps if we keep the word "hell" in but remove suffering), but I found it fascinating that it even happened.
Watch what you post here. You never know where it will show up again.
...just my $.02.
Ryan - Can you give more information on how this is a provision for the GA? I couldn't find it quickly in the Manual, only that districts sponsor resolutions.
I don't think it's in the Manual; I think I remember seeing it in the delegate information.
http://web.nazarene.org/site/DocServ....pdf?docID=661 - This was from 2009.
As far as I know this has always been practice. I suspect there is a committee that recommends rules for the whole body to approve.
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Ryan I hope your resolution gets some traction. Kevin had a wild idea about gender neutral language last time, and it ended up changing the whole book.
I'm pretty surprised this whole thread/forum isn't seeing more activity. It seems to me in 2008 we were abuzz with GA talk at this point in the process. Of course, we were all hopeful that some significant and real change would take place - need it or not. Perhaps we're keeping our expectations lowered this time around.
I think the discussion will pick up post November. I think there are a few factors for the inactivity. One, the leadership of our denomination has been very proactive in some serious theological and social issues. This eliminates the need for manual revisions on such matters. Two, those who are truly in the know (DS and the like) understand that the committee report that Dave McClung and others are/were working on will change things if there are resolutions in it so i think many people are in a wait and see mode. Three, there seemed to me, that there were several retirements of DSs and many districts focused on replacing them than other things. Also many resolutions are essentially raised or killed by the DS before they reach the DA.
Like I said, I see more discussion after the election and lots more discussion if we actually see the resolutions beforehand.
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I have this theory that resolutions gain more traction when submitted by more than one district/world area. Hans seems to like it, so he should submit it via his district as well.
That's what I come to you guys for!
"Love without holiness disintegrates into sentimentality. Personal integrity is lost. But holiness without love is not holiness at all. In spite of its label, it displays harshness, judgmentalism, a critical spirit, and all its capacity for discrimination end in nit-picking and divisiveness."-Mildred Bangs Wynkoop
The GA always adopts its rules at the very start of the meetings. In those rules that provision can be found. 5 GA delegates can submit a resolution, I've done it before.
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It sound like you don't believe the lost will suffer eternally in hell they will just be wondwering around lost in Hell. I don't see why Hans is agree with you when he claim to be conditionist who believe both body and soul will be destroy in Hell.
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Larry
Very simple, Larry. Annihilism means that people will indeed "be hopelessly and eternally lost." So it is pretty easy to agree with Ryan's statement.
And I completely agree with aligning the Articles of Faith with the Agreed Statement of Belief.
I also believe what the Psalm says: "His anger is but for a moment; his favour is for a lifetime". It's a matter of God's character.
Lastly, I think those who really believe people will burn in hell for all eternity but are not busy warning them by day and by night, run a huge risk of ending up there themselves.
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
I thought the annihilationist believe that the lost will finally be destroyed both body and soul in hell. If you believe this I can't see how you can agree even with the manual,
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Larry
Not with the Articles of Faith, no. But it does agree with the Agreed Statement of Belief. If you cannot see that, than I'll take that statement as such: YOU can't see it. I can.
"No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works" (John Wesley - Free Grace, 26)
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