Why?

[Hans Deventer]

Interesting piece by Peter Rollins on dealing with differences AND agreements.

Recently a well-known religionist gave a sermon in which he told people that God hated them. This caused quite a stir as witnessed by how many people jumped onto the internet to correct what they took to be incorrect teaching: “God doesn’t hate you, God loves you.”

The issue here is that, for someone who resonates with the idea that God hates them, the opposite message is unlikely to find a landing place. That message resonates with some people for a reason. The more interesting, astute and pastoral approach is to avoid trying to “correct” the belief and simply ask a person who relates to that message of divine hatred “why?”: in short, to work out why such an idea would hit home, and then work though the reasons with them.

The trick, obviously, is that this cuts both ways. If someone says, “I believe God loves me” we might be more likely not to ask them why they believe this simply because we think it is a more healthy view. But people can consciously believe things we think are healthy for the most unhealthy of reasons (for instance, the conscious belief “God loves me” might act as a means of you avoiding the fact that you are in a abusive marriage and doing something about it).

This means that if someone believes everything I believe I still have to ask “why?” I need to work out how the beliefs function for that person. Do they act as a security blanket preventing them from encountering the world, or do they function as a means of more fully entering into the world they inhabit (for any system, including my own, can act in that way as Katharine Moody insightfully pointed out).

I think this makes a lot of sense. Why do we need a God who loves us? Why one who created people for heaven or hell at forehand? Why do we need a hell? Or why can't we believe there is one? The answer to these questions is far more interesting than the views themselves, that we likely will never agree on anyway.

[Randy Wise]

If I hold to a teaching its because I believe its the truth of a given matter not because I have a need. In some cases its much easier to state what others want to hear and be accepted. Paul as a example could have preached the law of moses and they would have hugged him but he held to grace and suffered. Jesus likewise held that He was the Christ and the Son of the living God.

R.

[Hans Deventer]

If I hold to a teaching its because I believe its the truth of a given matter not because I have a need.
R.

In general, I doubt it. You may be an exception. Still, the question remains, how does one's faith function?

[Paul DeBaufer]

In general, I doubt it. You may be an exception. Still, the question remains, how does one's faith function?

The corollary question is why don't we want to face the question on a real level, How does faith function for me? And can I even begin to answer this question alone, outside of community?

[John Reilly]

How does one's faith function? Great question. To begin, I think faith functions with both trust in the Triune God and belief in the Triune God. As Israel explored their faith through a literal journey from Egypt to the Promised Land, they as a community struggled with trust and belief. I think community is essential to faith. Christian community is essential to Christian faith. Community nurtures faith by affirming doctrine, inspiring trust and sharing belief.

[Roland Hearn]

That our beliefs and personal identity are deeply intertwined is as basic to self-realisation as can be. Faith is as much an existential question as it is anything else. The idea that I believe something because it is true independent of need is an exercise in self-delusion. There is nothing more fundamentally reflective of our needs than our beliefs. That doesn't at all question the veracity of those beliefs but to disconnect such issues from our understanding of who we are is to miss one of the single most important cues as to why we do what we do.

[Randy Wise]

That our beliefs and personal identity are deeply intertwined is as basic to self-realisation as can be. Faith is as much an existential question as it is anything else. The idea that I believe something because it is true independent of need is an exercise in self-delusion. There is nothing more fundamentally reflective of our needs than our beliefs. That doesn't at all question the veracity of those beliefs but to disconnect such issues from our understanding of who we are is to miss one of the single most important cues as to why we do what we do.

While I need Jesus for life I was taught about Him and believed my parents. Hence Faith. However God also responded to that faith hence Jesus is the Christ is what I believe is truth and I hold to that truth. I have the Spirit of Christ in me which makes that truth like a rock. I cannot be deceived away from Jesus being the Christ. There may be other contexts such as women in ministry or marriage roles where I make a judgment such as equality and that may be based on what I see as "best" or "just" rather than truth such as Jesus is the Christ.

There are also other contexts that are not focused on religion.

Randy

[Hans Deventer]

That our beliefs and personal identity are deeply intertwined is as basic to self-realisation as can be. Faith is as much an existential question as it is anything else. The idea that I believe something because it is true independent of need is an exercise in self-delusion. There is nothing more fundamentally reflective of our needs than our beliefs. That doesn't at all question the veracity of those beliefs but to disconnect such issues from our understanding of who we are is to miss one of the single most important cues as to why we do what we do.

Which is why I think that psychology and theology are so closely connected. And should be in preaching. I may, every now and then, preach something people haven't heard yet. But they already know the main message, that's not the problem. So preaching is not about giving information, as truthful as it may be. It has to do with talking about what we actually believe, which is only that what we act upon, no matter our creeds. It is the about the deconstruction of the self-delusions, till we reach rock bottom and look our doubts and insincerities straight in the eye. It is about acknowledging the truth about ourselves.

[Paul DeBaufer]

Let me turn my question a little and maybe get to the heart of Rollins assertions.

What is the function of faith, personally?

[Hans Deventer]

Let me turn my question a little and maybe get to the heart of Rollins assertions.

What is the function of faith, personally?

To rid us of our fears and disfunctions aka sins and teach us to live a life of love and trusting God.

[Kyle Borger]

Let's see....

I feel loved. At least at times. If God exists and isn't love but is hate where did love come from? I can understand a God that loves and that hate comes from choices that are against God.

Now what to say about those that we think God killed in the OT. Did God hate them? Perhaps the behavior of their overall community resulted in the judgement and death for all. I have a hard time understanding the OT which often relates to God as a community versus the teaching I have received on the NT which often translates into an individual relationship with God.